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#21 Constance

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Posted 09 September 2007 - 07:19 AM

I was wondering what you mean by the symbolism being shallow? I ask casue this is the deck that I bought. I could not remember at the time of my last post here what the name was but I brought the cards with me to work so that i could bring them here to the library so that I knew I would not forget its name this time lol. Anyway, I really like this deck for some unknown (to me) reason but I got a hell of a good energy serge when I picked them up ( not just the first time either but everytime I pick these cards up.


Hi Eaglehart!

The symbolism seems shallow to me because of the simplicity of the artwork. There's not a lot of depth to the pictures and not a lot of fine detail to sink your teeth into. There are a few interesting symbolic choices on some of the cards (the author's decision to depict a rose bud tied to the arm of the fool, for instance), but to me there just isn't a lot of detail there (unlike the Thoth deck, in which I am still finding new hidden characters and details in the cards after 15 years of using them).

Also, not a lot of the cards relate to eachother, as far as I can tell. In some decks, certain details in one card will point to another card all together. For example, in some decks, the Emporor's legs are crossed so that they kind of look like the number 4/Alchemical symbol for sulpher...and in turn, the Hanged Man's legs make an inverted number 4/Sulpher symbol on that card. These references to other cards can give clues to the esoteric meanings of their companions, so I appreciate those relationships when deck creators include them. (I also love it when artists of newer decks add new relationships that I've not seen before).

So that's why I call the Londa's symbolism shallow -- it doesn't have the same level of detail and complexity as other decks I've seen.

However (and here's the big HOWEVER with flashing lights and rolling drums and dancing girls and boys), this is all me and my opinionated self talking from my frame of reference and my likes and dislikes regarding art and symbolism. You may see whole worlds in the Londa deck that just don't manifest for me. That's why there's so many decks out there -- because there are so many eyes to look at them! :)

Hope this helped clarify what I meant!

Constance

People from the South read a bit more than those from other regions, mostly religious books and romance novels. -- Where you fall in poll of U.S. reading habits, Cnn.com

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#22 eagleheart75

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Posted 10 September 2007 - 11:46 PM

Hi Eaglehart!

The symbolism seems shallow to me because of the simplicity of the artwork. There's not a lot of depth to the pictures and not a lot of fine detail to sink your teeth into. There are a few interesting symbolic choices on some of the cards (the author's decision to depict a rose bud tied to the arm of the fool, for instance), but to me there just isn't a lot of detail there (unlike the Thoth deck, in which I am still finding new hidden characters and details in the cards after 15 years of using them).

Also, not a lot of the cards relate to eachother, as far as I can tell. In some decks, certain details in one card will point to another card all together. For example, in some decks, the Emporor's legs are crossed so that they kind of look like the number 4/Alchemical symbol for sulpher...and in turn, the Hanged Man's legs make an inverted number 4/Sulpher symbol on that card. These references to other cards can give clues to the esoteric meanings of their companions, so I appreciate those relationships when deck creators include them. (I also love it when artists of newer decks add new relationships that I've not seen before).

So that's why I call the Londa's symbolism shallow -- it doesn't have the same level of detail and complexity as other decks I've seen.

However (and here's the big HOWEVER with flashing lights and rolling drums and dancing s and boys), this is all me and my opinionated self talking from my frame of reference and my likes and dislikes regarding art and symbolism. You may see whole worlds in the Londa deck that just don't manifest for me. That's why there's so many decks out there -- because there are so many eyes to look at them! :)

Hope this helped clarify what I meant!

Constance

Thank you it did indeed clarify your meaning for me. I had no idea that there was so much linkage between cards like that in other decks. I am thinking though that maybe simple is what I need just starting out lol. I would to be just completely overwhelmed by what I learn to see within the cards.

I am looking forward to the time that I am able to enter the cards as it says in the book. In time I know it will. when I am advanced enough with this deck maybe I will venture out and get that thoth deck you speak of.

Thanks again.

Eagleheart75


#23 eagleheart75

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Posted 11 September 2007 - 12:21 AM

Ok this is a question I was going to bring up in the Chat session on Sunday. I was wondering if anyone was knowledgeable in the working of shadow Tarot? The book I am reading on it has a part in it talking of asking for forgiveness from ppl that you ( I ) have harmed or done wrong to. My question is this is it at all possable to do this without actually being in contact with said person. The book does not really state any. But if I can burn it in a candle or something along that line please let me know.

The last thing I would like to know as well is ( and this might be off topic ) what might yall suggest for guided meditation books or CD's as I am having a really tough time doing such.

Eagleheart75


#24 Constance

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Posted 11 September 2007 - 12:27 AM

You're welcome. :) Tarot is a passion of mine, so if I ever get opinionated or preachy, feel free to tell me to hush up. :)

I think that you could use Tarot as a tool to ask for forgiveness, even if you can't get in touch with the person. You can even select a tarot card to represent the person in question in order to help you focus. Spell casting with Tarot is just like any other form of spell casting, so you would have to figure out what exactly you are asking for and plan your spell accordingly. But using Tarot cards to respresent you and the person in question would certainly be a start.

People from the South read a bit more than those from other regions, mostly religious books and romance novels. -- Where you fall in poll of U.S. reading habits, Cnn.com

Spooked: Books to Run From

Getting dirty for soap fairy since 2007.

Mistress of the mystic kangaroo defense method (MKDM).

#25 eagleheart75

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Posted 13 September 2007 - 05:44 PM

I have a question about my Tarot cards. Well more on how to care for them. I have read that the cards should be kept in a satchel or a box or something. I think I know the answer to this but is there anything that is better then the other to hold my cards in?

#26 Constance

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Posted 14 September 2007 - 12:19 AM

I have a question about my Tarot cards. Well more on how to care for them. I have read that the cards should be kept in a satchel or a box or something. I think I know the answer to this but is there anything that is better then the other to hold my cards in?


Whatever you want! (Isn't that an annoying answer????) :D

Seriously, though -- you can keep 'em in the box they came in (though the box will eventually disintegrate, especially if you carry them around with you all the time).

You can tie them up in some cloth (silk, cotton, a bandana, an old t-shirt you don't use any more, whatever you like).

You can keep them in a wooden box that you make or buy (but that's a pain if you want to carry them around).

You can keep them in draw string tarot bags, which you can buy online or at just about any pagan/occult shop or make yourself (the design is really simple).

I keep most of my decks that I use regularly in the crochet bags that I make. My "old reliable" deck is tied up in a big blue and black silk scarf that was given to me for the purpose on my birthday a few years ago.

And there are probably a million other containers for your tarot deck that I'm not even thinking about. I know one guy who kept his in an old velvet bag that a bottle of Chivas Regal came in. :) It's whatever you feel the most comfortable and what turns out to be the most practical for you. You don't want a heavy container if you want to carry your's around all the time, but you want something that will protect your cards as they rattle around in a backpack, for example.

I use the containers that I keep my decks in as part of a mini-ritual or process to get me into the right frame of mind for reading. So, taking my usual deck out of it's bag and slowly unwrapping it from the silk scarf that it is in allows me time to get my head in order and to get into the right mood to read. It's a signal to my subconscious about what kind of work I am about to do.

Hope this helps!

People from the South read a bit more than those from other regions, mostly religious books and romance novels. -- Where you fall in poll of U.S. reading habits, Cnn.com

Spooked: Books to Run From

Getting dirty for soap fairy since 2007.

Mistress of the mystic kangaroo defense method (MKDM).

#27 eagleheart75

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Posted 14 September 2007 - 06:07 PM

thanks that did help and yes the "anything you want" is a horrid answer and the answer I was expecting lol. Now I dont feel dumb for just keeping thm in the box they came in as that right now is the best way for me to carry them.

#28 Constance

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Posted 14 September 2007 - 10:55 PM

You're welcome. :)

At times, any way is best as long as it works!

People from the South read a bit more than those from other regions, mostly religious books and romance novels. -- Where you fall in poll of U.S. reading habits, Cnn.com

Spooked: Books to Run From

Getting dirty for soap fairy since 2007.

Mistress of the mystic kangaroo defense method (MKDM).

#29 Sandy

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Posted 15 September 2007 - 06:05 PM

I keep mine wrapped in a silk scarf :)
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#30 eagleheart75

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Posted 15 September 2007 - 06:19 PM

Is that it? just a silk scarf. are they at least within the box they originaly came in or are they just loose and in the scarf? I am just worried to deface the cards if you will.

#31 Jaime

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Posted 15 September 2007 - 07:03 PM

The symbolism seems shallow to me because of the simplicity of the artwork. There's not a lot of depth to the pictures and not a lot of fine detail to sink your teeth into. There are a few interesting symbolic choices on some of the cards (the author's decision to depict a rose bud tied to the arm of the fool, for instance), but to me there just isn't a lot of detail there (unlike the Thoth deck, in which I am still finding new hidden characters and details in the cards after 15 years of using them).

Also, not a lot of the cards relate to eachother, as far as I can tell. In some decks, certain details in one card will point to another card all together. For example, in some decks, the Emporor's legs are crossed so that they kind of look like the number 4/Alchemical symbol for sulpher...and in turn, the Hanged Man's legs make an inverted number 4/Sulpher symbol on that card. These references to other cards can give clues to the esoteric meanings of their companions, so I appreciate those relationships when deck creators include them. (I also love it when artists of newer decks add new relationships that I've not seen before).

So that's why I call the Londa's symbolism shallow -- it doesn't have the same level of detail and complexity as other decks I've seen.

However (and here's the big HOWEVER with flashing lights and rolling drums and dancing s and boys), this is all me and my opinionated self talking from my frame of reference and my likes and dislikes regarding art and symbolism. You may see whole worlds in the Londa deck that just don't manifest for me. That's why there's so many decks out there -- because there are so many eyes to look at them! :)

Hope this helped clarify what I meant!

Constance




I agree totally with you Constance, but in an inverted sort of way. When I was 16 my boyfriend's sister got a deck she thought I'd like. I did like them, loved then actually, but I found them really difficult to read. For years I tried with the help of various books, but I couldn't get solid messages from them (maybe I was going about it the wrong way, I dunno?). I figured I wasn't cut out for Tarot and was saddened by this.

Then one day I mentioned this problem to an artist friend of mine. She said, "..well the artwork is kind of busy, maybe that's your problem." I thought about it for a while and decided to perhaps browse around for another deck. I was leafing through a tarot book which showcased various decks and I stopped when I saw the Morgan-Greer Deck. The pictures were much simpler and, I felt, much clearer than my first deck which is Tarot of the Old Path (I really connected with the artwork of the HP and the Magician cards).

My first deck still has a place in my heart and I still have it and hope to understand this craft on a level where I'll be able to use it in the way it should be used. I feel now that the beautiful albeit complicated artwork was confusing me. There was so much happening I couldn't focus and I'd get bewildered (too many things happening at once). :confused:

Eventually I'd like to learn a lot more about this form of cartomancy. I usually use my intuition when it comes to readings. Having the experience with this art as you do, are there any books out there that you could suggest with regards to the study of some of the complexities of Tarot?

Jaime :)
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#32 Constance

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Posted 16 September 2007 - 12:30 AM

That's a good point (and one that I always seem to gloss over), Jamie. Especially when starting out, super-complex decks can be more of a hindrance than a help. I didn't start learning to read with the Thoth deck. For that, I had the good old Rider-Waite-Smith deck (just like 90% of all tarot beginners!) ;)

As for books...I like the following:
For Beginners:
Pictorial Key to the Tarot by A.E. Waite

Tarot Classic by Stuart R. Kaplan

Fortune-Telling by Playing Cards by Nerys Dee (This is on cartomancy using plain playing cards, but I think it's useful!)


For Advanced Studies:
Tarot Decoded by Elizabeth Hazel (It's about digities and correspondences.) I think this one is somewhere between mid-ranged and advanced studies. ;)

The Chicken Qabalah of Rabbi Lamed Ben Clifford by Lon Milo DuQuette

777 by Aleister Crowley (I think it's public domain and you can get a free Electronic copy online)

The Book of Thoth by Aleister Crowley (Specific to the deck he created with Lady Freida Harris, but still good symbolic info, I think.)

My suggestions for books for beginners is a bit old school -- those were the books that I had available when I started learning. There are a wide selection of beginners books out there now that I've not payed much attention to. My general advice is to stay away from books that repeatedly insist that there are no "negative meanings" of cards...that's bull, to put it plainly. It's true that no one card is negative ALL the time, but we ask the Tarot to be a reflection of the entire Unisverse, so we have to expect there to be a dark side as well as light.

I wish I wasn't 9000 miles away from my bookshelf, I'd be able to suggest more books that I've found useful. When I head home in a month or so, I'll have to rummage around and see what I can find. :)

Hope this helps!



People from the South read a bit more than those from other regions, mostly religious books and romance novels. -- Where you fall in poll of U.S. reading habits, Cnn.com

Spooked: Books to Run From

Getting dirty for soap fairy since 2007.

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#33 Sandy

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Posted 16 September 2007 - 06:20 AM

Is that it? just a silk scarf. are they at least within the box they originaly came in or are they just loose and in the scarf? I am just worried to deface the cards if you will.


I have had my first deck since I was about 13 or 14 perhaps even earlier and they are still in perfect shape. They are wrapped in two silk scarfs which were given to me over the years and remind me of a certain point in my life.

I move the cards around, they have no place to really live, no box or anything but I do usually have them in a small chest along with a few other bits and peices which I won't talk about.

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#34 Jaime

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Posted 16 September 2007 - 10:52 AM

Cool, Constance...Thanks for the info. This will be really helpful.

:thanks:

Jaime

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Respect the Elders. Teach the Young. Cooperate with the Pack. Play when you can. Hunt when you must. Rest in between. Share your affections. Voice your feelings. Leave your Mark.

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#35 Constance

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Posted 16 September 2007 - 01:06 PM

De nada, chica! :)
People from the South read a bit more than those from other regions, mostly religious books and romance novels. -- Where you fall in poll of U.S. reading habits, Cnn.com

Spooked: Books to Run From

Getting dirty for soap fairy since 2007.

Mistress of the mystic kangaroo defense method (MKDM).

#36 Sara

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Posted 25 September 2007 - 02:30 PM

Ok this is a question I was going to bring up in the Chat session on Sunday. I was wondering if anyone was knowledgeable in the working of shadow Tarot? The book I am reading on it has a part in it talking of asking for forgiveness from ppl that you ( I ) have harmed or done wrong to. My question is this is it at all possable to do this without actually being in contact with said person. The book does not really state any. But if I can burn it in a candle or something along that line please let me know.

The last thing I would like to know as well is ( and this might be off topic ) what might yall suggest for guided meditation books or CD's as I am having a really tough time doing such.

Eagleheart75



When I first received my deck (my husband bought it for me) The readings were very poor and I did not connect at all with them.
So first, I "erased" them. I got a tealight, sea salt, rubbed sage, my cards and something to put them in. I ground up the salt and rubbed sage together and then lit my candle.
I put some of the mixed salt and sage on the candle and took each and every card and put a pinch on the picture side of the card and said " I cleanse you". Then held it above the flame saying the same thing and I flipped it over and did the same thing with the flame. This was messy to say the least!
If that wasn't weird enough for you I then took the time to write out a "mission statement" of sorts and read it to my cards as I held them in my hands. Lastly I marked them with something that was specific to me, (special oil), on every card and then shuffled them a couple of times. I put them in the little satin bag I had for them and placed them under my pillow for the night.
I have a little wooden bronze box that I keep them in with some whole cloves in the corners and wrapped in a pretty silk scarf!

The result was awesome! My cards read so well now, my husband is a little weird-ed out :)!
and no I am not OCD :D!

Like you guys say it was just spur of the moment and it all came together in my head, so it just seemed right!


#37 Leigh

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Posted 25 September 2007 - 04:14 PM

When I first received my deck (my husband bought it for me) The readings were very poor and I did not connect at all with them.
So first, I "erased" them. [...] Like you guys say it was just spur of the moment and it all came together in my head, so it just seemed right!


I love what you did there. Perfect!


#38 Sara

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Posted 25 September 2007 - 04:54 PM

Thank you!

#39 Twisted_Angel

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Posted 25 September 2007 - 09:05 PM

I'm not sure what our more seasoned witches and Tarot obsessors think about this, but I stumbled upon this book while looking for a cheesy 'love spellbook' (as a gag gift *evil cackle*) for a friend's b-day.

Anywho, it's called The Tarot Handbook by Angeles Arrien.
It uses the Thoth deck as its example throughout the Major/Minor Arcana, but what I find fascinating (as it will eventually be my declared major!) is how psychology is combined into reading and displaying the cards. Arrien's attention to detail is impressive, and while the whole book can overwhelm with the information presented, the author managed to maintain orderliness and kept the text concise and universal at the same time. This was a major benefit as opposed to some Tarot guides that are either fluffy (rainbows and warm fuzzies, no bad here!) or too narrow-minded (this means you'll win a million dollars, or you're an idiot).

Few things that I really enjoyed:
- Quotes scattered throughout the pages that the author found to be helpful, insightful, or inspiring.
- The diverse, huge bibliography that ran the gauntlet of angles of the Tarot.
- With each book studied and listed in the bibliography, there is a brief summary of the book's subject matter if the title isn't that clear. Each summary is also quite blunt. (Ex. The Illustrated Key to the Tarot, by LW De Laurence - An inferior version of Waite's book)
- Profile/Personal Summary Cards based on loose mathmatical algorythms (sp?)
- If you don't want the long-winded version of the Card, you can flip to the Summary Appendix and get a brief synopsis.

Things I wasn't too peachy keen on:
- Every page is literally packed full. This can be overwhelming
- While (like everything) the Tarot is up to the interpretation of the querant and the spread and the etc. etc., the explanations and guides sometimes leads you only in one direction, sometimes blocking your inner intuition. Does this make sense? I can't really explain it properly, I think...

Overall so far (jury is still out on it) I'm finding this book to be informative and good for readers in all stages of Tarot. There's basics in there and more complex concepts and those nifty little tidbits that any advanced practitioner delights in stumbling over (regardless of path/career/etc.)

$0.02!

Amber

~*~ Twisted Angel ~*~

:rolleyes:


#40 Twisted_Angel

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Posted 25 September 2007 - 09:08 PM

Since I just realized I wrote a semi-critical, real book review, I'm posting this in the Books Forum as well... :)

Amber

~*~ Twisted Angel ~*~

:rolleyes: