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Saveock Water of Cornwall, England


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#1 The Exile

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 11:30 PM

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Saveock Water in Cornwall



A while back Sara (Sarasuperid) posted somewhere in the forum about the archeological finds at the site of Saveock Water which contains some finds that supports the theory that witches lived there.

Sara also mentioned to me that the website doesn't mention anything about the people of the past that lived in the area.



In this post I will start with the maps. Other than knowing where Cornwall is, I didn't know the location so had to hit the maps.



Saveock Water in the old days was often spelled Seveock Water. It is located in the civil parish of Kenwyn of Cornwall.

It is to the west of the main town, Truro.

When you go down to the smaller town or village level, Saveock is about a mile east of CHACEWATER and about less than a mile west of GREEN BOTTOM.





The first map shows the general area of where Saveock Water is in relationship to Cornwall. This map is from the website
http://www.fromoldbooks.org



Cornwall 1783


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from the book "The Antiquities of England and Wales" by Francis Grose, 1783.

I added the asterisk and "Saveock Water" notation.





The second, a set of two maps from the website
http://www.old-maps.co.uk/maps.html

This shows that the name of Seveock and Saveock spread out at several locations



Modern day map of Saveock/Seveock


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There are several locations that has Seveock or Saveock:

Seveock Moor

Seveock Farm (2 locations)

Saveock Farm (2 locations)

Saveock

Saveock Mill

Saveock Manor

Saveock Manor Cottage



And it is still not clear at the moment where in the map is exactly the Saveock Water sites. Perhaps later we will.


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Edited by The Exile, 11 June 2012 - 11:40 PM.


#2 The Exile

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 12:15 AM

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I scrolled down farther on the list of threads on History Of Witchcraft and found the thread that was started by Sara (sarasuperid).

In it is has the links to the Saveock website.


Cornish Archeological Witch Site

http://www.traditionalwitch.net/forums/topic/8878-cornish-archeological-witch-site/



Sorry I didn't find it when I did a search for "saveock"

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#3 CelticGypsy

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 12:46 AM

How interesting Exile, do you suppose the difference in the spelling of these two places, could be just in the pronounciation of it. Most times back in those ancient days as in your 1st Map, rural folk didn't have the tools of reading let alone writing, and the name of the location was put down phonenically ? Look at me I can't spell for shit, either.. lol !

Regards,
Gypsy

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#4 sarasuperid

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 04:55 AM

Does this help? http://www.yell.com/...4170/index.html
"A Craft, a calling, a set of Keys to unlock a particular cosmology that is borne, and born, in the blood of the practitioner, and sets the Work to be done with which one may commune with those who hold the patterns and keys of the life of the practitioner and hir stream. The Work is to be done, and we are to do it." --Aiseling the Bard

#5 sarasuperid

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 04:56 AM

http://www.archaeologyonline.org/
"A Craft, a calling, a set of Keys to unlock a particular cosmology that is borne, and born, in the blood of the practitioner, and sets the Work to be done with which one may commune with those who hold the patterns and keys of the life of the practitioner and hir stream. The Work is to be done, and we are to do it." --Aiseling the Bard

#6 sarasuperid

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 04:58 AM

Praise all that is witchy the forum finaly let me post a direct link to the dig website, I have been trying for months and it always gave me an error. That link was hard comeby guize!
"A Craft, a calling, a set of Keys to unlock a particular cosmology that is borne, and born, in the blood of the practitioner, and sets the Work to be done with which one may commune with those who hold the patterns and keys of the life of the practitioner and hir stream. The Work is to be done, and we are to do it." --Aiseling the Bard

#7 The Exile

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 08:44 PM

How interesting Exile, do you suppose the difference in the spelling of these two places, could be just in the pronounciation of it. Most times back in those ancient days as in your 1st Map, rural folk didn't have the tools of reading let alone writing, and the name of the location was put down phonenically ? Look at me I can't spell for shit, either.. lol !

Regards,
Gypsy



It could be Gypsy, looking at the 1841 census all the locations were spelled SEVEOCK, so I think the Saveock spelling is more modern. As with the ancient maps they were all mostly put down phonetically after the map makers went through the area collecting the names of the places and they wrote as they thought how it would be spelled.

This applies to how surnames were spelled. Depending on how the minister or court person thought it was spelled since most people back then didn't write or read.

Reminds me of the story of the almost deaf parishioner and the almost blind minister. The minister baptized a child and now he is wrtiting the names of the party involved. The minister badly needed a new pair glasses as everything is starting to be blurry. The minister didn't recognize the long time parishioner and asked "What is your name?". The parishioner who is losing his hearing did hear the question but couldn't believe that he wouldn't know his name so he thought he said something else so he said "Ehhh? Whazzatt?" And the minister wrote in the register "Edd Whazatt".

Some names are interesting. How would someone get a name as "Halfpenny" -- was he an abandoned child found clutching a English Half Penny in his hand ? And then his last name became Halfpenny.

Sorry off topic.


Edited by The Exile, 12 June 2012 - 09:24 PM.


#8 The Exile

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 08:51 PM

Does this help? http://www.yell.com/...4170/index.html



That one sure did solved it Sara.

After looking at it

The address of the Saveock Water Archeological site is:


Saveock Mill



I added an arrow to the two maps to indicate where on the map is the place.





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#9 The Exile

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 11:14 PM

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Locating the area of Saveock Mill in relationship of the excavation sites of Saveock Water.



When reading the report from Saveock Water Archaeology website for

Area C -- Orange Clay platform


"….To the south of this sump cut, the orange clay mound gently slopes down until it is cut into by a rubbish pit from the 18th century mill house…"






When reading the report from Saveock Water Archaeology website for

Area K Old Mill?


"This is small trench no more than 2m by 4m. In the north east corner is a dark feature that might be a pit surrounded by a platform of dense green clay very much the same as in the middle of the Mesolithic structure.

Surrounding this is a flat stony layer similar to the yellow stony deposit in A/2. On the west side of this trench is the remains of the mill house and its associated rubble pile.

This year we plan to excavate the mill house and show all the stages of an excavation from archive records to geophysics to excavation.

Taking you though all the stages, right up to finds processing and data base recording.

We know from the archives that the mill house was there in 1840’s but had gone completely 1908."






So when you combine the two report's mentioning of the location of the ruins of the Mill House, I come up with the probable location of the ruined Saveock Mill in relationship to the excavation sites.




The site map came from the Saveock Water Archaeology website and I added the probable location of the mill on the map.



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However in the report K, it is mentioned that they plan to dig the old mill site this year so perhaps she will update the excavation map with the exact location of the Saveock Mill ruins.




Edited by The Exile, 12 June 2012 - 11:25 PM.


#10 The Exile

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 11:24 PM

Seveock Mill in 1841



Located the miller in the 1841 census of Seveock Water.



His name was David Rook who was born ca. 1771 in Cornwall. He was the miller and his family were living at the Mill in Seveock Water.

This would be the ruins that is next to the Saveock Water Archaeology site.



1841 census of Seveock Water, Kenwyn parish, Cornwall

Name / Age (to the nearest 5 year) / Sex / occupation / Born in the county (of Cornwall)?

do (Seveock Water)

David Rook………… 70 M…… Millar………………. y
Ann Rook…………… 70 F………………………………. y
Joseph Head……….. 20 M…. Miner Copper……. y
John Rook………….. 40 M….. Miller………… [blank]
Phillippa Rook……. 40 F……………………………… y
Catharine… do….… 15 F………………………………. y




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#11 sarasuperid

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 11:28 PM

Oh here we go getting a good start on this! I am so thrilled Bill! I wonder if getting the address narrowed down helps us narrow down which Burnetts we are looking for.
"A Craft, a calling, a set of Keys to unlock a particular cosmology that is borne, and born, in the blood of the practitioner, and sets the Work to be done with which one may commune with those who hold the patterns and keys of the life of the practitioner and hir stream. The Work is to be done, and we are to do it." --Aiseling the Bard

#12 sarasuperid

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 11:35 PM

Here is a quote from the Archaeology journal article: "It is not clear whether the pits were the work of a single family or a countrywide guild of witches. One lead came from a conversation between a member of Wood's excavation team and some locals in a pub. They recalled that there was a family, the Burnetts, reputed to be witches, that lived near Wood's house. Two sisters resided there until the 1980s, so it is possible the dog pit could have been their work. Today a relative of the Burnett sisters is still there, but Wood--for whatever reason--hasn't yet plucked up the courage to visit."


So it looks like we want the Burnetts that live near the site.

"A Craft, a calling, a set of Keys to unlock a particular cosmology that is borne, and born, in the blood of the practitioner, and sets the Work to be done with which one may commune with those who hold the patterns and keys of the life of the practitioner and hir stream. The Work is to be done, and we are to do it." --Aiseling the Bard

#13 sarasuperid

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 11:41 PM

The latest ritual pit found dates to circa 1970! http://www.archaeolo...it/Goat Pit.htm so that places the Burnetts who lived near there til the 80's as a good lead :D

I love the name of the family you found, how witchy is that?! Rook

"A Craft, a calling, a set of Keys to unlock a particular cosmology that is borne, and born, in the blood of the practitioner, and sets the Work to be done with which one may commune with those who hold the patterns and keys of the life of the practitioner and hir stream. The Work is to be done, and we are to do it." --Aiseling the Bard

#14 The Exile

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Posted 13 June 2012 - 12:04 AM

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Oh here we go getting a good start on this! I am so thrilled Bill! I wonder if getting the address narrowed down helps us narrow down which Burnetts we are looking for.




That one will take more digging. The list of Burnett addresses that I sent to you in the private messenger is still is where the research on the Burnett front is at this point.

Main problem is that in the British Phone Books (B.P.Bs.) seems like I only found Burnetts in the 1980's to 1984 (the cut off date of the collection at Ancestry is so far 1984). I need to find out why no Burnetts in the area before 1984 in the B. P. Bs. I believe there should be some listed. And if found it would give us the names of Burnett in the area from the 1930's to 1970's.

Sometimes the scanning program that readed the digital images pick up words differently like I found in the newspapers Pettingale readed as Fettingale. And in the B.P.Bs., I later found out that Robert and Monica English were actually listed in the phone books at Gayton, Norfolk from 1954 to 1970 not as I thought 1954 to 1964 before because I rechecked the indexes with different spellings etc.


Then using the Births index and Marriages index of England & Wales, all the Burnett of the area is listed under the registration district of Truro.

To see how wide of an area

Click here:
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/Cornwall/Maps/map_trur.html


You can see the parish of Kenwyn is located near the middle of the area.

So just from the index a birth in Truro r.d. could be from any of the places in that district. To get the exact location, you would have to order the birth or marriage certificate and at 9.25 British Pounds each that would be approximately 15.00 US Dollars each :thatsit: not economical.


So I will try to cross reference some other references to get an idea of the Burnetts in the area of the 1910's to 1980's.


I will soon post the 1901 and 1911 census of the Burnett family that was listed at Green Bottom which was less than a mile from Saveock Water.


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#15 The Exile

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Posted 13 June 2012 - 12:10 AM

Here is a quote from the Archaeology journal article: "It is not clear whether the pits were the work of a single family or a countrywide guild of witches. One lead came from a conversation between a member of Wood's excavation team and some locals in a pub. They recalled that there was a family, the Burnetts, reputed to be witches, that lived near Wood's house. Two sisters resided there until the 1980s, so it is possible the dog pit could have been their work. Today a relative of the Burnett sisters is still there, but Wood--for whatever reason--hasn't yet plucked up the courage to visit."


So it looks like we want the Burnetts that live near the site.



Need to add that there is the possibility that some of the Burnetts choosen to have their phone number not listed.

The list of Burnett addresses that I sent to you are from the 2012 Electoral Poll list of UK. The most current. But I think I did also heard that you can choose to be private in that list as well.

Will need to dig deeper.







#16 sarasuperid

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Posted 13 June 2012 - 07:33 PM

"However, there has since the reported came been a new development on the Witch front. A student of mine from Exeter University John Gates has spent the last five weeks living in a tent just outside the village of Blackwater. When he told the people in the local pub The Red Lion about our pits they all seemed to know that there had been witches living in the area of the pits. They said there was a man that was thought to be a witch and that he lived in a cottage the other side of the railway line next to our land. He died in 1945 though so he could not have put the dog pit in as it is clearly dated since the atom bomb testing. He left his cottage to his two nieces and the general consensus in the pub was that they were certainly Witches. There used to be a footbridge over the railway line when the sisters lived there which gave them easy access to our land, which was demolished in the 1960’s. That is the reason I knew nothing about these sisters as there is no way across the railway track to their cottage now and in the country if you live on a farm and do not share a track with people you rarely get to meet them. The sister’s nephew inherited the cottage around 1985 and he lives there today. I told the reporter what I had found out but I really have no idea what he is going to print about it all anymore. We will just have to wait and see. This week the reporter from De Spiegel is doing an article about it on the magazines website and we have a photographer and reporter form the American Institute magazine coming on Sunday to look at the site."




From the dig diary--2008.


Bill, I am pm'ing you the map I made of all the Burnett's you found, the dig site, and the pub. Maybe it will help us out.


"A Craft, a calling, a set of Keys to unlock a particular cosmology that is borne, and born, in the blood of the practitioner, and sets the Work to be done with which one may commune with those who hold the patterns and keys of the life of the practitioner and hir stream. The Work is to be done, and we are to do it." --Aiseling the Bard

#17 The Exile

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 12:12 AM

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Thanks Sara that interactive google map is very useful. You can even zoom in until you can actually see two areas nearby the school where the land is stripped (the archeological sites).

And when looking at the nearby areas it doesn't look like that many people lived in the area which explains why I came up with only a few names.

I recently did some more jiggling around the search indexes with the British Phone Books. I found a way to do a search without names but with just the location "Saveock" and then "Seveock" and for the whole 1940 to 1984 period there were only to less than a dozen names in the phone books connected with those place names. But no Burnetts.

I did collected the names found associated with the places.


Sara that report you found in the 2008 diary is an important one. It gives the family structure. It went from one person to two of his nieces (which suggest that he didn't have children and perhaps not married) and then from one of the sister's nephew. I bet that not all of their last names were Burnett.

Finding that year of death of 1945 is important. I can do a search in the index for deaths in the area and cross reference it with some of the names already in hand.



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Edited by The Exile, 14 June 2012 - 12:15 AM.


#18 sarasuperid

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 12:53 AM

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Thanks Sara that interactive google map is very useful. You can even zoom in until you can actually see two areas nearby the school where the land is stripped (the archeological sites).

And when looking at the nearby areas it doesn't look like that many people lived in the area which explains why I came up with only a few names.

I recently did some more jiggling around the search indexes with the British Phone Books. I found a way to do a search without names but with just the location "Saveock" and then "Seveock" and for the whole 1940 to 1984 period there were only to less than a dozen names in the phone books connected with those place names. But no Burnetts.

I did collected the names found associated with the places.


Sara that report you found in the 2008 diary is an important one. It gives the family structure. It went from one person to two of his nieces (which suggest that he didn't have children and perhaps not married) and then from one of the sister's nephew. I bet that not all of their last names were Burnett.

Finding that year of death of 1945 is important. I can do a search in the index for deaths in the area and cross reference it with some of the names already in hand.



.


You can also zoom in with that map and see the railroad tracks she is talking about, there are a number of buildings across the tracks, but still less than a dozen.

"A Craft, a calling, a set of Keys to unlock a particular cosmology that is borne, and born, in the blood of the practitioner, and sets the Work to be done with which one may commune with those who hold the patterns and keys of the life of the practitioner and hir stream. The Work is to be done, and we are to do it." --Aiseling the Bard

#19 The Exile

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 01:27 AM

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Seveock 1935



I finally found a document that shows the Burnett were living in Seveock, Cornwall.

This is a probate index listing for John Thomas Burnett who died on January 11, 1935.



BURNETT John Thomas of Seveock Kenwyn Cornwall died 11 January 1935 Probate Bodmin 20 March to Harold Burnett labourer.

Effects £702 12s. 4d.


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This is the same John T. Burnett that I find the family living in Greenbottom, Cornwall (less than a mile away from Seveock) in the 1901 and 1911 census. So it was after 1911 they moved to Seveock.



Incidently this John T. Burnett had a brother, Richard Burnett, that died in 1943 in a nearby area.



Both of them are sons of a Richard Burnett senior who was a Gamekeeper in profession.



John Thomas Burnett was a carpenter and joiner. Richard Jr. was a fisherman (and I think a farmer?)



So now I got to collect information on the children and grandchildren of John Thomas Burnett to see who were the later member of the family that lived in the area.


.




Edited by The Exile, 15 June 2012 - 01:39 AM.


#20 sarasuperid

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 02:25 AM

.

Seveock 1935



I finally found a document that shows the Burnett were living in Seveock, Cornwall.

This is a probate index listing for John Thomas Burnett who died on January 11, 1935.



BURNETT John Thomas of Seveock Kenwyn Cornwall died 11 January 1935 Probate Bodmin 20 March to Harold Burnett labourer.

Effects £702 12s. 4d.


Posted Image



This is the same John T. Burnett that I find the family living in Greenbottom, Cornwall (less than a mile away from Seveock) in the 1901 and 1911 census. So it was after 1911 they moved to Seveock.



Incidently this John T. Burnett had a brother, Richard Burnett, that died in 1943 in a nearby area.



Both of them are sons of a Richard Burnett senior who was a Gamekeeper in profession.



John Thomas Burnett was a carpenter and joiner. Richard Jr. was a fisherman (and I think a farmer?)



So now I got to collect information on the children and grandchildren of John Thomas Burnett to see who were the later member of the family that lived in the area.


.





Yay!

"A Craft, a calling, a set of Keys to unlock a particular cosmology that is borne, and born, in the blood of the practitioner, and sets the Work to be done with which one may commune with those who hold the patterns and keys of the life of the practitioner and hir stream. The Work is to be done, and we are to do it." --Aiseling the Bard