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#21 Michele

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 06:19 PM

P.S. If you're interested in the shamanic-tribal rituals, the movie "Emerald Forest" had some lovely examples, both of ritual and of shamanic drug use.

M

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#22 Archabyss

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 06:07 AM

Erowid is a good research tool for seeing how others have prepared herbs for taking, albeit some are just doing it for kicks but the information they can give is useful. With this type of plant work it is useful to have a human guide show you but this isn't always possible to be fair but we are lucky in the fact a fair amount of information on chemicals and dosages is more readily available out there on websites such as the fore mentioned or from research books.

Someone on the first page of this thread mentioned that plants are like our older brothers and sisters, I would like to say this is not the case at all. I don't personally believe the family phrasing works for them, yes some plant spirits whether the individual plant or the over-arching spirit of that plant can be friendly and make the process of learning from them easy and relatively safe, others do not.

For those who want to work with drugs within this green part of the path I would say that some spirits like us, some even love us, others hate us unless courted correctly and even then you would be wise to be on your guard, some spirits play with us, some trick us and above all they don't understand the differences between us and them.

Edited by Archabyss, 27 July 2012 - 06:08 AM.

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#23 Aloe

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 12:03 PM

In the Private Section of this Forum, one of my Peers discovered a unique little purple flower growing in one of her flower beds, she promptly posted a picture for indentification purposes and our Mountain Witch gave her the wisdom of what it was.

Our Peer, said she DID NOT plant this, upon review of this post in the Private section, and knowing our Peer from time spent here, I'd be inclined to suspect that our Peer did not rip this pretty little natural thing from her flower bed, she developed a relationship with it.

Again,..... why her garden.......... and not mine ... ??? It was a gift given to her from Nature.

Regards,
Gypsy


Certainly was ;)



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"The people who live in the Ozark country of Missouri and Arkansas were, until very recently, the most deliberately unprogressive people in the United States. Descended from pioneers who came West from the Southern Appalachians at the beginning of the nineteenth century, they made little contact with the outer world for more than a hundred years. They seem like foreigners to the average urban American, but nearly all of them come of British stock, and many families have lived in America since colonial days. Their material heirlooms are few, but like all isolated illiterates they have clung to the old songs and obsolete sayings and outworn customs of their ancestors." Ozark Magic and Folklore

#24 Aloe

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 01:40 PM

Someone on the first page of this thread mentioned that plants are like our older brothers and sisters, I would like to say this is not the case at all. I don't personally believe the family phrasing works for them, yes some plant spirits whether the individual plant or the over-arching spirit of that plant can be friendly and make the process of learning from them easy and relatively safe, others do not.



I don't think I've used family phrasing in regards to plants, but I see no problem with it. Who says family is always friendly and safe? My sister is a pain in the ass, costs me a lot of money to get her out of bad situations, and has caused me to be vandalized just through relation to her before. But I choose to do all these things and stay close to her because I love her and still consider her a worthy effort. She reminds me of stinging nettle. People always want to weed it out of my garden because it doesn't flower and causes pain to everyone who touches it, but I love it and keep it there because I find value in it.

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"The people who live in the Ozark country of Missouri and Arkansas were, until very recently, the most deliberately unprogressive people in the United States. Descended from pioneers who came West from the Southern Appalachians at the beginning of the nineteenth century, they made little contact with the outer world for more than a hundred years. They seem like foreigners to the average urban American, but nearly all of them come of British stock, and many families have lived in America since colonial days. Their material heirlooms are few, but like all isolated illiterates they have clung to the old songs and obsolete sayings and outworn customs of their ancestors." Ozark Magic and Folklore

#25 Guest_Vala_*

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 06:43 PM

Tried to see if there was a topic on this already, but I couldn't find one.. Anyways, I've been wondering what other people think about the use of drugs, any drug, and how it affects your magical performance. Smoking certain herbs, making teas out of other ones, have for a long time been a means of aiding in spirit quests, astral projection etc. I'm more so wondering about the use of naturally occuring, non processed drugs like peyote, salvia divinorum, different fungi, marijuana.. My interest mainly comes from the fact that the shamans and witches in the North of Finland (my grandmother mixed these traditions with her romani craft) used to make a brew out of amanita muscaria to help them travel the astral plane. I have never myself tried any of these drugs, part from weed. For me the effects of that particular drug vary, sometimes I just giggle in a corner, sometimes I do however feel that it strenghtens my mental ability, and especially my empathy.

My own main fear with mixing magic and drugs would be that I would do something I normally would never even think of doing.

Discuss!

ps. If this topic is prohibited, I'm sorry, and do feel free to delete it, I won't take umbrage. Also, if there IS a topic on this and I missed it, I would be glad if I would be directed to it.


You have to be careful with a lot of drugs you can find on the street. Marijuana for example, while lauded as "natural" had actually been altered considerably from the state it would be found in in nature. There's no knowing what chemicals or pesticides marijuana is laced with, and even if you obtain fresh seeds and grow it organically yourself, the seeds you receive have been bred intensely to create strains heavy with THC. This basically unbalances the natural "makeup" of the plant itself.

Obviously, some drugs lend themselves to the "magical" better than others (I don't know of anyone who would expect cocaine to help them cross the hedge :P ). While marijuana can be used in this way, I find that the commonality of its use can conflict with magical workings. For example, if you're someone who uses marijuana recreationally, to giggle with friends and scarf down tacos, you're going to have trouble accessing a spiritual state of mind under the influence of something your brain has adapted to and that you've come to associate with some very non-spiritual things (tacos).

While I've had a few spiritual experiences under the influence of drugs, I definitely agree that the mindset must first be spiritual before the drugs are introduced. It's not a lazy quick-fix to hedge-crossing. It can be an aid, but don't expect it to do the work for you. Personally, if I were to cross the hedge and converse with angels and one-eyes monsters from another world, I'd hate to feel like it was just a wild trip and not real. For this reason, drugs can invalidate a spiritual experience. The more potent drugs also carry some definite risks (I'm thinking strong hallucinogens here) and especially so because your perceptions are so altered that your judgement isn't based on reality. The astral plane can be a dangerous place if you're not in full possession of your senses. Imagine trying to take a vacation halfway across the world. Travel is difficult enough, and then when you get there you're surrounded by foreigners whose language you don't speak and whose customs are alien to you. Now imagine trying to do that on drugs. Chances are you'd make a mess of things.

This isn't to say I'm against the practice. I cannot stress enough the importance of caution and experience. In this, as in all things, they are invaluable.

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#26 Archabyss

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 08:40 PM

I agree, I would also mention using drugs to cross, in particular plants could make it harder as they have a lessons to teach or words to whisper.
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#27 Maya Pixie Vixenspirit

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 12:57 PM

I've come across this topic since many of my friens use drugs pretty regularly - and most of them have been introduced to the entheogenic family of psychedelics. Of course; psychedelics when used in a right state of mind, right place and time, with the right people etc etc etc may give you a feeling of getting information from someplace else - you know, higher force, mama nature, or the drug itself. But many of these people are not "spiritual" in a way that they would greatly benefit from the experience, many find it just cool, and won't process it later, or can't see the substance and all it gives as holy or blessed. There's a total lack of respect, and these people can't block certain signals the mind receives: some signals of course might be very "True", you know shamanic or teaching, while some signals may just be plain blur and fuzz and your mind playing tricks - a shaman knows which signals to listen to, and which to ignore as jsut a "side-effect" of the drug.

Why I find certain drugs very useful is, that when used by someone who knows what they do, in amounts that are not going to poison you or make you psychotic for the rest of your life, drugs (i.e fungi, peyote, salvia, ayahuasca, dmt) can give one answers (I once watched a documentary about a shaman who drank ayahuasca and then went to the forest, and the plants talked to him and told which illnessesthey could cure!!), feelings of mysticism or other realms, even near-to-death experiences (dmt for example).
I believe, that it's about HOW you use the drug (and of course, who uses it.). If you want to get your head messed up, it works that way too. But if you're ready and willing to have a journey inside your mind, study yourself, get maybe glimpses of something "on the other side" - well, these might work just like that as well. Using, even once testing, certain drugs may and will change the way you view life forever.

just some further reading on the entheogenic use of substances: http://www.wikishama...title=Entheogen

I have to quote Vala here (actually I agree with the whole text , but nevermind ;):

While marijuana can be used in this way, I find that the commonality of its use can conflict with magical workings. For example, if you're someone who uses marijuana recreationally, to giggle with friends and scarf down tacos, you're going to have trouble accessing a spiritual state of mind under the influence of something your brain has adapted to and that you've come to associate with some very non-spiritual things (tacos).


Marijuana can be very distracting when it comes to magic. Sometimes it might make you a bit more "connected" to everything, while sometimes it might just make you feel like you're in a bubble, your thoughts all mixed up, getting easily distracted.

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#28 Lilikate

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 01:51 PM

I'm enjoying this thread, and it's reminding me of the first time I took Ecstasy. Let me say that I had always been absolutely against it until learning about it through a show on Discovery (i think). But when I took it, after dancing around for a while, I went outside for a cigarette and I honestly saw my mother's property in a way I had never seen it before. It was breathtakingly beautiful. The sun was hitting the grass and trees in such a perfect way, really golden, and the grass and leaves were the greenest I'd ever seen. That alone to me was spiritual. It might sound like bullshit, but I feel like I got a glimpse of the real beauty of that place. I would consider a good and nearly completely pure batch of X could help with hedge-riding. I may even try it again and see what happens.

I absolutely agree that if you don't respect the drugs and dont try to actually have a spiritual experience, you won't. Simple as.

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#29 Aurelian

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 10:40 PM

I really hate our drug control laws, they inhibit the spiritual, therapeutic, and medicinal uses that psychoactive substances have to offer. I have to say tho, and this is why I am posting: erowid and lyceum usually do have reasonable info, but I've read info on there that was totally wrong. They were saying, for example, that a plant acted via GABA-A agonism rather than NMDA agonism, and in terms of drug interactions that sort of misinformation is extremely dangerous. Double check your information with other easily-accessed resources like pubmed, for sure.
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"The truth about the world, he said, is that anything is possible. Had you not seen it from birth and thereby bled it of its strangeness it would appear to you for what it is, a hat trick in a medicine show, a fevered dream, a trance bepopulate with chimeras having neither analogue nor precedent, an itinerant carnival, a migratory tentshow whose ultimate destination after many a pitch in many a mudded field is unspeakable and calamitous beyond reckoning." - Cormac McCarthy

#30 Phoenix

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 11:25 PM

I think drugs do have a place in magic. However, I also think that it depends on the person who is using them and the environment they are using the drugs in. There is a lot I could say about it and have deleted several times, but I will say that there is a big difference between using them for a ritual/ magical purpose and using them for fun. I agree that Marijauna isn't the most predictable, but it does make a good ingredient in scrying/ divination incense. It is also good when contemplating symbols, myths, and writing rituals, but I don't like it during. I think, if you follow correspondences and such, that it is either mercury or saturn, depending on the type.
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#31 Lilikate

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 12:00 AM

I think drugs do have a place in magic. However, I also think that it depends on the person who is using them and the environment they are using the drugs in. There is a lot I could say about it and have deleted several times, but I will say that there is a big difference between using them for a ritual/ magical purpose and using them for fun. I agree that Marijauna isn't the most predictable, but it does make a good ingredient in scrying/ divination incense. It is also good when contemplating symbols, myths, and writing rituals, but I don't like it during. I think, if you follow correspondences and such, that it is either mercury or saturn, depending on the type.


Oh yeah, marijuana turns me into a fuckin philosopher, I swear lol. I can have the longest conversations about life and its meaning and how everything has its place, etc. I do this a lot with my bf. We'll smoke and just talk, and vibe on so many levels. It like... opens our minds. I do plan to use it in my craft, def. :thumbsup:

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I adore simple pleasures. They are the last refuge of the complex.

-Oscar Wilde

#32 Apryl

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 12:21 AM

I expect that everyone else would know what's ok for them and I'm no one to say otherwise. That said, marijuana gives me an unexpected clarity, once I get past the fun, giggly stuff! lol Anything else that I've done, the drugs I've tried or done in my youth offered nothing but stark alone-ness, paranoia and fear when it pertains to the craft and opened me up to others imposing on me.

Due to the fact that I'm on serious opiates, experimenting further is out of the question (I get drug tested regularly) which seriously sucks as MJ is legal here, and for the very reason that I'm on the rediculously heavy-duty opioids, and I know that it helps...in all areas. While I don't always care for the fuzzy head (so I'd occaisionally eat it too), it gives my body, therefore my mind the peace it needs to connect. It's much harder because of the other drugs. I really have to work at it while before I got broken, it was always there and easy to access.

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#33 Absinthe

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 12:57 AM

I have never, ever tried 'illegal' drugs. That doesn't mean I don't want to. It's just that my job was heavily involved in the Magistrates' Courts and I'd die of embarrassment if I was up in court with my friends and colleagues officiating.
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#34 Jevne

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 01:18 AM

I have never, ever tried 'illegal' drugs. That doesn't mean I don't want to. It's just that my job was heavily involved in the Magistrates' Courts and I'd die of embarrassment if I was up in court with my friends and colleagues officiating.


Me, neither. First, I grew up around various "drugs", and it only ever made the people that I was personally around act silly. Never interested me. :pumpkin_rolleyes:

In addition, there is the whole I work in a high profile position and could lose my reputation and my job thing.

And, there is that police officer that is snoring next to me . . . that is a big factor, too. :witch_bounce:

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#35 seacow

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 01:51 AM

Great replies!

I'm think I'm veering more and more towards trying a drug (ayahuasca and shrooms asoudn really interesting) during a working. It's a shame the summers coming to an end, but maybe it's even better that way. Maybe I'll find an all new appreciation for the things I've always regarded as mundane. I would be really interested in deep meditation and interacting with the natural world on a different level.
Now there's just the matter of acquiring some. I've found it to be incredibly hard to even get MJ here unless you know a grower, and drugs tend to be very, very expensive. But I guess the price is ok if (and I'm not) you're not intending on using them all the time. I wonder if this is the right time of year to go gather Psilocybe Semilanceatas outside? Apparently they're abundant here. Finding/cultivating the plants I'm going to use would be the ideal way to go about this for me personally.
Research time! Although I'm pretty sure the answer I'll get to whether I'm allowed to cultivate any of the plants used in these experiences will be a strict "NO!" :/

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#36 Archabyss

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 06:09 AM

1345081874[/url]' post='130766']
Great replies!

I'm think I'm veering more and more towards trying a drug (ayahuasca and shrooms asoudn really interesting) during a working. It's a shame the summers coming to an end, but maybe it's even better that way. Maybe I'll find an all new appreciation for the things I've always regarded as mundane. I would be really interested in deep meditation and interacting with the natural world on a different level.
Now there's just the matter of acquiring some. I've found it to be incredibly hard to even get MJ here unless you know a grower, and drugs tend to be very, very expensive. But I guess the price is ok if (and I'm not) you're not intending on using them all the time. I wonder if this is the right time of year to go gather Psilocybe Semilanceatas outside? Apparently they're abundant here. Finding/cultivating the plants I'm going to use would be the ideal way to go about this for me personally.
Research time! Although I'm pretty sure the answer I'll get to whether I'm allowed to cultivate any of the plants used in these experiences will be a strict "NO!" :/


Erowid is useful in this type of research but also do you have a watcher, a friend who can sit with you, not to be involved but to keep an eye on you in case of problems.

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#37 seacow

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 11:52 AM

Erowid is useful in this type of research but also do you have a watcher, a friend who can sit with you, not to be involved but to keep an eye on you in case of problems.


I do actually. She also happens to live close to a place that I get "vibes" from a lot. It would be interesting to see what goes on there, beyond what my eyes can normally see.

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#38 Maya Pixie Vixenspirit

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 11:59 AM

Great replies!

I'm think I'm veering more and more towards trying a drug (ayahuasca and shrooms asoudn really interesting) during a working. It's a shame the summers coming to an end, but maybe it's even better that way. Maybe I'll find an all new appreciation for the things I've always regarded as mundane. I would be really interested in deep meditation and interacting with the natural world on a different level.
Now there's just the matter of acquiring some. I've found it to be incredibly hard to even get MJ here unless you know a grower, and drugs tend to be very, very expensive. But I guess the price is ok if (and I'm not) you're not intending on using them all the time. I wonder if this is the right time of year to go gather Psilocybe Semilanceatas outside? Apparently they're abundant here. Finding/cultivating the plants I'm going to use would be the ideal way to go about this for me personally.
Research time! Although I'm pretty sure the answer I'll get to whether I'm allowed to cultivate any of the plants used in these experiences will be a strict "NO!" :/


Since we live in the same country, I can give you some advice, though I don't know whether you live up North or down South.. And no, this is NOT meant to sound like a guide to acquire drugs of any kind, just want to give a helping hand ;)

For the question considering Psilocybe semilanceata (also known as liberty caps) , I would recommend you to wait maybe a month or two still. In the North (like Kuopio/Oulu and such) the season comes earlier, and the shrooms seem to be a bit more effective. Here South, the season is probably due October, if the warm weather seems to stay the way it is - unfortunately, the later the summer lasts, the more the season delays. I had a chat with a friend the other day, and he seemed quite confident though that September would be the perfect time to start!
If you've never found liberty caps, here's some advice. First of all; it takes time and patience, I would even say a meditative/spiritual state. Do not try to rush or force the gifts to be relieved too early, Mama Nature knows just when you should spot the first ones - and usually, once you spot one, there most definately is a bunch nearby!
Second of all; take time to scout the perfect place. Though once you know how to "think like a shroom" the places are pretty easy to find, but on the first try you'll probably be less lucky. Try to look for a damp place (usually you should try just after it has rained) on a meadow - birches and grass that grows on bunches (ruohotuppaat) are a good indicator of a spot. Our luckiest spots were on an old cow pasture and a sheep pasture.

I recommend to be very cautious with liberty caps, since shrooms always have something to tell. Sometimes they'll show you how beautiful the nature is, sometimes they just make you go all question marks, which doesn't necessarily help during a working. Though, if you just want to listen to what this piece of Nature has to offer and say, it requires a bit of courage and an open mind. A watcher, "tripsitter", is good to have around - someone from the "real world" you can rely on, and someone to remind you that everything is ok, at times of doubt. I once was the tripsitter for a friend on shrooms for the first time, and she acted like I was the Great Wise One - or her mother. "Can I sit down now? Can I use the toilet? Hahahah I wanna laugh - is it ok if I laugh? Hey why do I feel this weird? Is it ok if I feel this way? Hey wtf am I doing?" And I of course answered all her questions - to her, they were very important and valid.

I wouldn't recommend trying to get ayahuasca in Finland. There are some people who do it, but since they are not shamans, I do not trust what they do - of course, if you would brew it yourself, it would be a whole different thing, yet I feel that for the trip to be "perfect", there'd still need to be that one shaman taking it further and further.

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Tulen synty on taivosesta,
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Mullasta minun sukuni...

#39 Aurelian

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 02:51 PM

I've been sitting here tapping my nails trying to figure out how to reply to this. I finally decided I'm no elder, I'm not handing down witchy wisdom for posterity, and you guys aren't all that young either.
I'll not blow smoke up your asses; very simply you need to know your substance, how to use it, and most of all the WHY. These things are sacred to me; are you using it in a sacred way? Are you willing to sacrifice yourself? That's what you're in for, when you combine psychs and magic.
You can mess up good intentions. Make sure you're in a proper state for these things. If you're messed up at the moment, at the time, you can end up luxating your mind from.....well, reality, really. If you're here, embodied, you still have to deal with Earth.

I could go on and on, but I won't. Just be careful when you stir that particular cauldron, ok?

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"The truth about the world, he said, is that anything is possible. Had you not seen it from birth and thereby bled it of its strangeness it would appear to you for what it is, a hat trick in a medicine show, a fevered dream, a trance bepopulate with chimeras having neither analogue nor precedent, an itinerant carnival, a migratory tentshow whose ultimate destination after many a pitch in many a mudded field is unspeakable and calamitous beyond reckoning." - Cormac McCarthy

#40 Maya Pixie Vixenspirit

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 05:21 PM

I've been sitting here tapping my nails trying to figure out how to reply to this. I finally decided I'm no elder, I'm not handing down witchy wisdom for posterity, and you guys aren't all that young either.
I'll not blow smoke up your asses; very simply you need to know your substance, how to use it, and most of all the WHY. These things are sacred to me; are you using it in a sacred way? Are you willing to sacrifice yourself? That's what you're in for, when you combine psychs and magic.
You can mess up good intentions. Make sure you're in a proper state for these things. If you're messed up at the moment, at the time, you can end up luxating your mind from.....well, reality, really. If you're here, embodied, you still have to deal with Earth.

I could go on and on, but I won't. Just be careful when you stir that particular cauldron, ok?


Couldn't have said it any better. Thanks for summing up something I've been trying to get fit into some minds lately!!!

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Tulen synty on taivosesta,
Vuoresta vein sikiö,
Mullasta minun sukuni...