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Sandy

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Well I thought I'd get the party started :P

 

So, yes this is a site purely dedicated to Traditional Witches and the Traditional Craft. However, everyone is welcome here, including Wiccans. It is very interesting to have debates about why the path you take is the right one for you.

 

One nagging thing I cannot grasp with the Wiccan Rede/Tradition is that if an evil person did something really awful to a Wiccan or their family and caused harm, how can they protect themselves without using negative energy? Can sending an evil person love and light really help? Do most Wiccans REALLY feel that this is enough?

 

Maybe the positive energy works because they believe it will? Maybe negative energy works for me because I believe it will.

 

I'm not saying that Traditional Witches are evil, but I don't always feel that you can fight all evil with love. If you can heal then you can hex, simple as that.

 

Personally I would NEVER EVER send anyone negative vibes or energy without a damn good reason to. Usually it is someone else's negative energy directed at me that I will simply mirror back to where it came from, although depending on the severity I may be inclined to intensify it.

 

You certainly do reap what you sew, so I agree with that 100 percent, however you are also allowed to protect yourself and your family with whatever it takes - not all people out there are able to receive "love and light" as they are so "closed".

 

When individuals are so eaten up with hate and jealousy the only "language" most of them understand is a kick up the ass! When you try and be nice and help these sorts of people, you just end up being the victim and abused and they end up feeding off your own life energy!

 

... However, I will go right out of my way to help someone whatever their problem might be and I always give people the benefit of the doubt, on more than one occassion.

 

Just my tuppence worth and hopefully get the ball rolling in this place :lol:

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Greetings Sandy, All

 

Well I thought I'd get the party started :P

 

One nagging thing I cannot grasp with the Wiccan Rede/Tradition is that if an evil person did something really awful to a Wiccan or their family and caused harm, how can they protect themselves without using negative energy? Can sending an evil person love and light really help? Do most Wiccans REALLY feel that this is enough?[/color]

 

Well now to my mind this is a question that sounds deceptively simple but is in reality quite complex. One can of course engage in straightforward defense witout any further retaliatory action being taken but the point that sometimes this is not enough to deter some people is a given I think. After all, while I think that we would all agree that education IS enough the only real difference is in how that is achieved.

 

In some cases such purely educationally defensive action is enough to enlighten the agressor but sometimes not - a gentle (or not so gentle) reaction can make the fingers twitch more effectively in some cases and the gift of having the choice to choose was one of the reasons that curtailed my involvement with wicca many years ago. I was harassed and I cursed the offender quite successfully. Having done so, I figured that if I did once and would do so again, irrelevant of any rule to the contrary without any real hesitation then perhaps that was not the place for me.

 

All of which brings me to what I feel to be the crux of the issue - to my mind everyone has to be somewhere and if they are lucky the place they find is the one that suits them. Needless to say, many don't find the place that is right for them for any number of reasons and this results in all sorts of dramas for them, those around them and etc. One of the larger themses in al paths that I have encountered worth a damn is the (re) discovery of the true nature of the self. Some people find that they are the gentle healers so often bruited about as ideals these days - others find that they don't fit that mould *shrugs* as far as I am concerned the monster that KNOWS they are a monster is worth a hundred would be if only they could be angels.

 

Maybe the positive energy works because they believe it will? Maybe negative energy works for me because I believe it will.

 

Again, different horses and courses. Sometimes I find I have to make use of currents that aren't my "cup of tea" to get a job done but well to use another cliche - the right tool for the right job in the right hands gets the job done right the first time...

 

I'm not saying that Traditional Witches are evil, but I don't always feel that you can fight all evil with love. If you can heal then you can hex, simple as that.

 

Right on the money. I find it difficult to abide the much promoted pass time of forwarding public relations as historical fact. The whole notion of "witches never harmed anyone and were all gentle midwives terribly oppressed by the nasty oppressive church" is so well known to be highly seletive advertising these days I find it irritating that some still present it as fact. The deal is simply as you say, the competant witch needs to know both sides of the coin. In the most nice sort of way when to put a band aid and a kiss on the cut finger ... and when to amputate - at whatever height! :lol:

 

Personally I would NEVER EVER send anyone negative vibes or energy without a damn good reason to. Usually it is someone else's negative energy directed at me that I will simply mirror back to where it came from, although depending on the severity I may be inclined to intensify it.

 

For myself I simply say that, irrelevant of who I may have been and what I may have done in the past these days I treat people as they come. Granted sometimes that is not easy but it is worthwhile to my mind. I have met many people reviled to me privately who I found to be delightful and stimulating company - and that also goes for some I have at first thought I would not be able to stand.

 

You certainly do reap what you sew, so I agree with that 100 percent, however you are also allowed to protect yourself and your family with whatever it takes - not all people out there are able to receive "love and light" as they are so "closed".

 

And hey - on man's meat is another's poison ... I always say you have to take each tims as a first and size it up - what is best? Sometimes it is well worth allowing an opponent to think they have wiped you out - so they don't bother again and sometimes you need to be there everytime they try to sleep for a month or so to get the message home.

 

Just my tuppence worth and hopefully get the ball rolling in this place :lol:

 

A fine start! Who's next? :D

 

Fraternally

 

Scott

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Greetings Scott,

 

 

...

 

All of which brings me to what I feel to be the crux of the issue - to my mind everyone has to be somewhere and if they are lucky the place they find is the one that suits them. Needless to say' date=' many don't find the place that is right for them for any number of reasons and this results in all sorts of dramas for them, those around them and etc. One of the larger themses in al paths that I have encountered worth a damn is the (re) discovery of the true nature of the self. Some people find that they are the gentle healers so often bruited about as ideals these days - others find that they don't fit that mould *shrugs* as far as I am concerned the monster that KNOWS they are a monster is worth a hundred would be if only they could be angels.[/color']

 

Absolutely! 'Know Thyself' .. and your comments about teaching a lesson, is spot on. Some people learn quickly, but sometimes the harder lessons are the ones best remembered, different strokes for for different folks.

 

 

Again, different horses and courses. Sometimes I find I have to make use of currents that aren't my "cup of tea" to get a job done but well to use another cliche - the right tool for the right job in the right hands gets the job done right the first time...

 

Spot on, the right tools for the job in hand get the job done right, we make use of the currents and energies that are best suited for the task in hand.

 

Right on the money. I find it difficult to abide the much promoted pass time of forwarding public relations as historical fact. The whole notion of "witches never harmed anyone and were all gentle midwives terribly oppressed by the nasty oppressive church" is so well known to be highly seletive advertising these days I find it irritating that some still present it as fact. The deal is simply as you say, the competant witch needs to know both sides of the coin. In the most nice sort of way when to put a band aid and a kiss on the cut finger ... and when to amputate - at whatever height! :lol:

 

:lol: at your 'at whatever height' oh how true! :lol: and the selective public relations you metion does get on the nerves, painting a picture of mild mannered midwives oppressed by the church is too trite. The competent witch had, and still has, to know the right tools for the job. I think we're aware enough to admit that both sides of the coin are needed, anything else is unbalanced, at least from my point of view .. others may disagree, and they are of course entitled to their views.

 

 

For myself I simply say that, irrelevant of who I may have been and what I may have done in the past these days I treat people as they come. Granted sometimes that is not easy but it is worthwhile to my mind. I have met many people reviled to me privately who I found to be delightful and stimulating company - and that also goes for some I have at first thought I would not be able to stand.

 

Yep! treat everyone as they are, what others views of them are may not accord with your own perceptions of them.

 

And hey - on man's meat is another's poison ... I always say you have to take each tims as a first and size it up - what is best? Sometimes it is well worth allowing an opponent to think they have wiped you out - so they don't bother again and sometimes you need to be there everytime they try to sleep for a month or so to get the message home.

 

You hit the nail on the head there, what is the best course of action varies in almost every case. Don't simply relate the past to the present, review it and find the best course of action for the particular instance

 

A fine start! Who's next? :D

 

Fraternally

 

Scott

 

Welcome to the forum and site Scott :D

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  • 2 months later...
Guest wortmistress

Hell, it's 7am here in Wales and I'm reading your deep conversations...In the not so distant past there were people who were saying \"yes\" the people who were burned, hung etc. for Witchcraft were indeed Witches, then the figures were modified when certain Wiccan -linked books were poo-pooed, as in \"well they probably weren't witches\" just a few doddery old dears and a few midwives/ herbalists. Why do people feel the need to quantify, to prove, to have a clear cut answer? We will NEVER know, but I feel deep in my heart that some followers of the Old Ways were killed. Let's not forget that if you weren't Christian, you were probably following the Old Ways, Folk Tradition etc...you just didn't see yourself as a witch, or a healer, it was everyday life!

Back to \"negative energy\".. Have to admit that I find it a bit naive to believe that you can bind etc, for someone displaying evil or bad vibes towards you, by sending positive energy- Let's not forget- you need intent, focus and the energy to make change happen so if you want to stop someone, surely an ounce of neg. energy must be present, at least in your sub-consciousness. A few years ago, I had a nasty co-worker who set me up to get a written reprimand to cover her piss-taking at work. I couldn't eat for 3 days, I was boiling with rage. So the Wiccan ideal went out the window and I make a poppet, and a strong binding/curse. It worked a charm.Why? Not because I had followed a fluffy spell that I had read in a Llewellyn book, but because I had channelled my rage, my intention, everything into it. Result? Next day, charge was mysteriously dropped, and within a few months SHE was sacked!! I'm not proud of doing things like this BUT IT WAS NECESSARY...We have to protect ourselves, our property, our loved ones. Sometimes it isn't enough just to love, we have to hate.. Different side of same coin, same energy...

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Well Wortmistress GOOD FOR YOU! I have no problem in protecting myself against the evil influences of others. You did the right thing and she got her karma in the end.

 

I have done similar binding spells and they really DO work, even if it is just to get someone off your back and leave you alone - it might not be overnight but something always happens that alters certain situations in your favour.

 

As you said Wortmistress, different side of the coin but the SAME coin. Many of my Wiccan friends vow they would never use negative energy as they are 'healers' and wouldnt know how to do it even if they wanted to.

 

Honey, I say, if you can heal you can most definitely hex! :P

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Greetings All

 

Indeed Wortmistress, I can never really quite get my head around the position that some people have that is simply wanting to have it all black, white pure simple straight and neat. As I keep finding myself saying to people over the year .. look history simply isn't like that - much less people .. there are no "single causes" and even the most dopey of individuals are complex in their beliefs.

 

It is every bit as foolish to buy into "the persecuation" as it is to NOT do so - even though it really seems to be vogueish these days to be more "persecuted than thou" amongst many new age "traps". The facts are that things happened and although much of it was not really much to do with actual witches ... when the "let's get the 'not like us' squad are out in force" it is inevitable they'd net one or two.

 

*Shrugs* I simply look at it from the perspective of thinking "all social groupings of any sort fail to serve their adherants if they don't put them FIRST" ... therefore if the grouping one finds oneself meeting is not like you - caution is the order or the day ..and by that I don't mean the sort of stuff that tends to go on these days ... I mean just like you would be careful handling a real sharp knife in the kitchen!

 

As for the negative vibes deal .. well the other thing to be remembered is that it is now established fact that anything that irritates actually "throws" all but the most stalwart out for anywhere up to ten hours - and that not venting can actually make it worse.

 

I figure if such a thing sticks in the head and messes with the self then it must also have corresponding physical affects such as tiredness and etc. All these lower the immune system and impair the functioning of the body. So if you get it out of your system at the very least it will make you feel better. (That it also tends to sort out the situation for us is just the cream on the cake!! *BG*)

 

As for harming and healing ... well the two are both vast and overlap quite often I find .. the previous example being only one! :D I heard a fabulous story on that a while back from an extremely dubious character but reckon it is a tad extreme for out here in the open straight off the cuff. :)

 

Fraternally

 

Scott

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Guest Elder RavenFire

The Harm none works like this, you can't let some one hurt you and your family, that is also breaking the harm none rule. So it kinda cancels it out in a way. You can use magick to defend yourself, and others. I try not to, but sometimes it calls for it. I only ask the Goddess to guid me in all that I do. Blessed be, Elder RavenFire

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As for harming and healing ... well the two are both vast and overlap quite often I find .. the previous example being only one! :D I heard a fabulous story on that a while back from an extremely dubious character but reckon it is a tad extreme for out here in the open straight off the cuff. :)

 

Fraternally

 

Scott

 

Greetings Scott,

 

ok you've picqued my curiousity :lol: feel free to share this in the Private area as and when you feel the time is right

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I detect a carrot being dangled. Come on spill the beans Scott. We are all open minded adults here, let it rip :)

 

... You have certainly whetted my appetite for some dirty gossip hehee

 

:twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

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The Harm none works like this, you can't let some one hurt you and your family, that is also breaking the harm none rule. So it kinda cancels it out in a way. You can use magick to defend yourself, and others. I try not to, but sometimes it calls for it. I only ask the Goddess to guid me in all that I do. Blessed be, Elder RavenFire

 

Pah! Nasty people get their just desserts and I do whatever it takes to get the job done if their hatred/intentions are directed at me as a personal attack.

 

Some may say I'm a bitch, but then Karma can be the biggest bitch when its directed to someone for the right reasons!

.

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I do whatever it takes to get the job done if it's directed at me.

 

 

Absolutely! Sometimes a smack of karma is just what people need :patsch:

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Greetings All

 

Hmmm carrots? Hardly hahaha I was typing away and typed it all out and then thought "Hmm .. that's perhaps a little harsh this early on .. play nice" so I cut it out ... *BG*

 

Ahh I should know better than to try to be delicate for others! As I keep being told "Don't do that - it doesn't suit you!" .. so ok *Shrugs* I give in .. just remember that being nice isn't my job hehehhe

 

On the whole Karma thing my first mentor used to say "Mate I AM your karma - that's why I'm here!" *BG* And yes - occasionally he'd belt me one! haahah

 

Hmm ok anyhow .. the story The squeamish should turn away now! *BG*

 

Anyway on the subject of heal and hex it reminds me of a fabbo story I heard ages back in a dubious place. I have heard a couple of versions of this but the one I got told ages back seems to be the one that speaks to me the most so .. *Shrugs* I'll relate that one ...

 

It dealt with two healers being summoned by a village council. The village was decimated by a sickness and they needed help. The two arrived in short order and set about moving among the sick doing what the could.

 

The first used what would now be called reiki and channelled well being and the very positive currents of life into those he encountered to better their chance of pulling through.

 

When he was so tired he could literally do no more he went looking for the other who was still working strong and seemed to have visited more people in the short time than he. He found the cottage and looked in through the window, curious to see the other's method of working that enabled him to continue on without the rest he needed. Imagine his surprise to see the second healer smiling and holding the hand of a sick old man with one hand; and using a razor sharp scalpel to slit his throat with the other.

 

Outraged the first sprang into the cottage. The second looked up and before he even had time to speak; the first smashed him over the back of the head. He twitched once and then he lay still.

 

After going back over all the cottages he had visited during the day, the first was outraged to see that the second healer had even gone into some of the same homes he had visited and killed some of his patients! His rage coursed through him and he felt he could do no more that day to help others in this state. He decided instead to see the council and inform them there was nothing more he could do that day. He went before the council and told them that he had rid them of a very great evil.

 

They responded that they had only sent for the second healer because he was the most capable physician they had ever heard of. That his skill in being able to determine to the chances of survival were only equaled by his ability to quickly and compassionately end the suffering of those unable to return to health in as painless a way as possible.

 

They went on to ask him how many people he thought would now die in the rest of the day now that the second healer was gone. Two were needed and one could not do the work of two. They further asked him how many new victims he thought would get sick due to his actions stopping the dieing from being separated from the rest. They explained that everyone in the village knew how desperate things were and all had consented to this person being summoned.

 

The first healer was terrified and went back to where the second healer's body lay to try to decide what he must do. When he got there he discovered that the second healer was still alive but in great pain. With the back of his head caved in he wouldn't last long. He apologised and said why he did what he did.

 

The second healer looked at him and said:

 

"Apologising does not solve the problem and I suspect by the pain that I see in you that you have gone against your own training and beliefs when you attacked me. I too am in pain. I will die soon but you will survive and your pain will continue. If I can heal only one last person, then it will be you. In my belongings you will find all my secrets - in time you will become greater than I was at what I did.

 

Now I will take your hand. I will place in it my knife. You will promise to learn my secrets for your past would not have you back with this stain on your conscience. You have no choice now but to become me. The first one you will cure will be me. Curing means ending suffering - removing it from where it may harm others. To do so properly is an awesome responsibility and the ways in which it can be done are more than you can ever learn in one lifetime. You will now learn a new way."

 

At which he smiled and guided the first healer's hand, with the scalpel in it across his throat.

 

That night he read the second man's journal and therein learnt how the same thing had happened long ago when the second healer had begun his training. Two healers had become one again.

 

Fraternally

 

Scott

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