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Saying the Lord's Prayer Backwards


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#1 Michele

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Posted 24 November 2011 - 02:18 PM

This tends to be a rather dual-faith observance and is not somthing that all relate to, but due to the recent influx of "big three" religions on the board (or two of them anyway, lol) I thought it may be of help and/or interest to some. It was discussed in the Paul Huson thread, but giving it it's own thread so it doesn't get mixed up with the actual book. The Paul Huson thttp://www.traditionalwitch.net/forums/topic/1772-mastering-witchcraft-by-paul-huson/page__p__53499__hl__%2Bprayer+%2Bbackwards__fromsearch__1#entry53499hread is :

I think that's the thread (god knows I suck at computer links). If it's not just search it.

I do not believe in bashing the religions of others and I would never do this rite to make fun of another religion, but the right in and of itself done for other reasons - everything from de-conditioning to self-dedication to helping one realize how much they really do or don't want to change their path - has its merits.

M

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#2 LdyShalott

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Posted 24 November 2011 - 02:55 PM

Paul Huson, Mastering Witchcraft
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Most witches don’t believe in gods. They know that the gods exist, of course. They even deal with them occasionally. But they don’t believe in them. They know them too well. It would be like believing in the postman.  T.P.

In order to understand the living.. you have to commune with the dead..
You are a tiny little soul carrying around a corpse.-- Epictetus
All experience is an arch wherethrough gleams that untravelled world whose margin fades for ever and for ever when I move.

 


#3 Michele

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Posted 24 November 2011 - 03:11 PM

Paul Huson, Mastering Witchcraft



Lol - Thanks, LS. How do you DO that???

M

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#4 Marabet

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Posted 24 November 2011 - 04:30 PM

This site, a Theistic Satanism site, has the LP backwards written out phonetically like it is found in Mastering Witchcraft. It also explains what Paul Huson said in the book (in a nutshell) but does have a lot of the author's own take and opinion. Be sure not to take it all as from Huson, is what I am trying to say here.

I was hesitant to post this link because I didn't want to be sharing too much of Huson's work but as the LP is public domain (more or less) and it being backwards and phonetic isn't a huge leap I think it's okay.

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#5 Grymdycche

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Posted 24 November 2011 - 05:16 PM

Lol - Thanks, LS. How do you DO that??? M

When in post mode, on the button toolbar, click the little icon immediately to the right of the "smiley face" button(if you hover the mouse over it, it'll say "Insert Link"). Then type the link in the resulting box that pops up. If you highlight text in your post before clicking on the button, that selected text will become the link, otherwise the whole URL just displays in your post.

You also had a typo in your original post though.. "thttp://" instead of "http://"

I've had the book since I was 13 or 14, and I remember doing this, or at the very least, starting it. IIRC, you're supposed to do it 3 nights in a row for some reason. I don't think I went through with all 3 nights, seemed kinda silly. I don't think it was meant to diss Christianity (or Judaism or even Islam, since all the monotheologies worship the same deity), but to de-condition one and clean the slate, as it were, like you said. However, I also feel it was really unnecessary and sorta smacks of a satanic ritual.

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#6 Michele

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Posted 24 November 2011 - 05:28 PM

... However, I also feel it was really unnecessary and sorta smacks of a satanic ritual.


Yes, but for some with that background as so many in the western cultures have, it can be eye-opening and really bring the point home as to what does one believe and how far is one willing to take things.

M

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#7 sarasuperid

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Posted 24 November 2011 - 08:21 PM

I have a bit of a yearly tradition of reaffirming my choice to be a non-christian in a christian world. To look to a different "heaven" and to walk a different path that embraces totally different things. The tradition, is specific to the choice to assert a different way of seeing the world within a society that is christian mostly. Some might find this needlessly combative (although it is not intended as such) or might think it is showing prejudice (I don't think the tradition itself is prejudice, but perhaps the people who perform it might be? neither here nor there really), but I see over and over pagans who find being pagan is too hard, to lonely, they end up at church because they miss the company or the singing or whatever. I find that in a culture that it is somewhat harder to be a witch or pagan than a CEO (Christmas and Easter Only--only a comment on some of course there are many fervent every Sunday or even every day sorts) Christian, that recognizing and reminding oneself why one is witch despite the difficulities faced, is of value. And in a similar way, I view this LP backwards ritual, in a way--its a loud statement of separation from the main straight and narrow to walk a crooked path, or the left hand path, or even the right hand path in a non christian ethic moral compass. Considering the number of those who dabble and then go back, just find it easier once they have kids to go to church, or marry a christian and just hide or give up their witch ways, it is something that happens (Thankfully we don't see it here! but I do see it on other forums and in some blogs). This sort of ritual is something of value to people who could use a little boost a little more power against the easy way (its all set up for you, just walk into church and its there a ready made community for you, if you will admit you need saved--it seems so easy for some). I think so many of us here, can't ever see going there, but if it does seem tempting and you really want to commit yourself against it a ritual like Huson's seems like a good thing to try.
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#8 Scylla

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Posted 25 November 2011 - 12:26 AM

I've seen the Lord's Prayer backward - I've also seen statements that "A true witch cannot recite the prayer".

I've also seen "The Goatfoot Prayer" - essentially mocking and deriding the LP, and professing allegiance to The Goatfoot God.

IMO - if someone feels afraid in reciting it backward, or openly saying "I denounce The God of Abraham!" - they have some fear and attachment to that god.

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#9 Michele

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Posted 25 November 2011 - 12:31 AM

I've seen the Lord's Prayer backward - I've also seen statements that "A true witch cannot recite the prayer".

I've also seen "The Goatfoot Prayer" - essentially mocking and deriding the LP, and professing allegiance to The Goatfoot God.

IMO - if someone feels afraid in reciting it backward, or openly saying "I denounce The God of Abraham!" - they have some fear and attachment to that god.


Hence one of the reasons to work the ritual for one brought up in that culture if they feel the need and have the desire to do so.

M

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#10 Aloe

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Posted 25 November 2011 - 12:36 AM

Copying my post from the Mastering Witchcraft thread here. I did the ritual the full three nights, added in some things of my own, and had an entity show up on the third night that was interesting.

I haven't read this book, but have done the ritual of the Lord's Prayer backwards recently. I thought it sounded absurd and completely ridiculous at first, but I noticed that lately a lot of my christian training from growing up keeps inserting itself into my ways of thinking and it's bugging me. So I started looking for deconditioning processes. I've read a couple of chapters of the book from the Amazon preview and Paul Huson says that you will most likely feel 'creepy' or whatever while doing this, and I didn't. I did however feel noticeably 'lighter' afterwords.

So, I'm throwing in my vote for this being a good practice for someone that is looking to decondition. I can't speak for the long term results yet, but the initial results were good. I'm sure it's not necessary for someone who wasn't indoctrinated with christianity (or someone who doesn't mind that indoctrination) but I think it's useful for those who need it. I spent 2/3 of my life so far growing up in a christian tradition that is way more cultish and controlling than your average church, so even after 8 years of intentionally practicing witchcraft I am still deconditioning. :rolleyes_witch:


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"The people who live in the Ozark country of Missouri and Arkansas were, until very recently, the most deliberately unprogressive people in the United States. Descended from pioneers who came West from the Southern Appalachians at the beginning of the nineteenth century, they made little contact with the outer world for more than a hundred years. They seem like foreigners to the average urban American, but nearly all of them come of British stock, and many families have lived in America since colonial days. Their material heirlooms are few, but like all isolated illiterates they have clung to the old songs and obsolete sayings and outworn customs of their ancestors." Ozark Magic and Folklore

#11 Aloe

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Posted 25 November 2011 - 12:37 AM

crap double posted..
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"The people who live in the Ozark country of Missouri and Arkansas were, until very recently, the most deliberately unprogressive people in the United States. Descended from pioneers who came West from the Southern Appalachians at the beginning of the nineteenth century, they made little contact with the outer world for more than a hundred years. They seem like foreigners to the average urban American, but nearly all of them come of British stock, and many families have lived in America since colonial days. Their material heirlooms are few, but like all isolated illiterates they have clung to the old songs and obsolete sayings and outworn customs of their ancestors." Ozark Magic and Folklore

#12 Grymdycche

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Posted 25 November 2011 - 02:24 AM

Yes, but for some with that background as so many in the western cultures have, it can be eye-opening and really bring the point home as to what does one believe and how far is one willing to take things.

M


That's quite true. I have to be honest here (not that I'm ever not), I was really rather uncomfortable doing it, which was telling. Of course, it didn't help that this was only about a year or two after the Exorcist came out and that movie had scared the shit outta me. (I was still xtian at the time)
:devil: :bolt:

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#13 Stacey

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Posted 25 November 2011 - 02:33 AM

This site, a Theistic Satanism site, has the LP backwards written out phonetically like it is found in Mastering Witchcraft. It also explains what Paul Huson said in the book (in a nutshell) but does have a lot of the author's own take and opinion. Be sure not to take it all as from Huson, is what I am trying to say here.

I was hesitant to post this link because I didn't want to be sharing too much of Huson's work but as the LP is public domain (more or less) and it being backwards and phonetic isn't a huge leap I think it's okay.


Well I can honestly say that I won't ever attempt it - I hate reading out aloud forward at the best of times, not real sure I'd want to give backwards a bash!

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#14 Scylla

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Posted 25 November 2011 - 02:49 AM

I took some time to dig through old notes and find the "Goatfoot Prayer" . Provenance for those that care: Passed to me from my Mentor, who heard an Irish practitioner belt this out (at the top of his lungs) before beginning a ritual.
"To Hell with their father, hiding in heaven
I spit on every letter of his name.
His Kingdom is ashes.
His will is bile,
as it rises in my throat.
I have worked in the fields to earn my bread,
and need no forgiveness, but from him that I've wronged.
And to hell with him that wronged me.
I'll take all my temptation,
And judge my own what's Evil.
For this is the kingdom of the Old-Horn,
And the Goatfoot, and the One-eyed,
forever, and ever.

Nemha" (I'm assuming this is "Amen" backward)



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#15 sarasuperid

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Posted 25 November 2011 - 05:31 AM

Scylla, that is breath taking. Thanks for digging that up for us!

I took some time to dig through old notes and find the "Goatfoot Prayer" . Provenance for those that care: Passed to me from my Mentor, who heard an Irish practitioner belt this out (at the top of his lungs) before beginning a ritual.
"To Hell with their father, hiding in heaven
I spit on every letter of his name.
His Kingdom is ashes.
His will is bile,
as it rises in my throat.
I have worked in the fields to earn my bread,
and need no forgiveness, but from him that I've wronged.
And to hell with him that wronged me.
I'll take all my temptation,
And judge my own what's Evil.
For this is the kingdom of the Old-Horn,
And the Goatfoot, and the One-eyed,
forever, and ever.

Nemha" (I'm assuming this is "Amen" backward)




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"A Craft, a calling, a set of Keys to unlock a particular cosmology that is borne, and born, in the blood of the practitioner, and sets the Work to be done with which one may commune with those who hold the patterns and keys of the life of the practitioner and hir stream. The Work is to be done, and we are to do it." --Aiseling the Bard

#16 Oakbuchanan

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Posted 25 November 2011 - 09:25 AM

The backwards recitation of the LP imo would be a liberating, empowering and a stark reality check for a former Christian to gauge exactly where they are at and to see if there are still any cobwebs to clear.. I do feel it is something that if approached from the right place will not be so much creepy, but rather, empowering and will leave as Aloe mentioned, a feeling of lightness...

I do feel though that the LP can be seen as a generic prayer, I have seen it used in Buddhist writings on prayer power, by Quakers, in New thought and also in in other sources with various conjugations made to it .. I suppose it can depend on 'who' you mean by Father(or Mother indeed)... I suppose from a more gnostic stance one could also ask the question. which Father was Yeshua praying to? Relating to divinity in a parent child exchange is not exclusive to Abrahamic beliefs.

Although some who come from a Christian background may be now atheist. there are those like myself who do have a connection to a force generally termed 'God' which has evolved from an experience whilst as a Catholic or Christian, (which is why I left the church) but dont view this 'Father' as evil (although many Christians would disagree). Having an experience does not unfortunately mean instant de-programming though.

The Goat foot prayer is interesting. Although as I do have a connection with a 'Father' I would personally find reciting the GF prayer counter productive.. I 'know' who my Father is, and when I pray the 'Our Father' which I do at times, I know exactly which Father I am addressing and it aint the Catholic one.

So personally I would be more specific about which Father I am rebuking.

The genius I see behind the backwards Lords prayer in some circumstances is that, rather than it being misunderstood as a blasphemy rite, it is imo actually a key that can be used to re-enter the womb, positive regression, returning to a pre programmmed state.. It is not imo so much about negation as about revelation, realisation and transformation.

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#17 Michele

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Posted 25 November 2011 - 02:11 PM

...The genius I see behind the backwards Lords prayer in some circumstances is that, rather than it being misunderstood as a blasphemy rite, it is imo actually a key that can be used to re-enter the womb, positive regression, returning to a pre programmmed state.. It is not imo so much about negation as about revelation, realisation and transformation.


Wow - wonderfully said, Oak B. Cannon!!!

M

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#18 Scylla

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Posted 25 November 2011 - 06:47 PM

(SNIP) The Goat foot prayer is interesting. Although as I do have a connection with a 'Father' I would personally find reciting the GF prayer counter productive.. I 'know' who my Father is, and when I pray the 'Our Father' which I do at times, I know exactly which Father I am addressing and it aint the Catholic one. So personally I would be more specific about which Father I am rebuking.


IMO, by mocking the Christian LP - and denoting that "Their" father is the one being rebuked, that it's self-evident it refers to IHVH. Then again, I know the context it's intended for, versus what context others might put it in.
I'll be one of the first in line to refer to "Lord", "God" and "Father" while meaning in my heart and soul a rather different one than listeners may expect, but I will also be one to blaspheme for ritual, if/when it calls for it. I think it's about whether or not one's Work calls for it, and whether or not one is suited to doing it - put 300 witches in the same room and ask them about these topics - you'll have 300 opinions and a few less witches by the end of the day.

Food for thought, that's for sure!

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#19 Guest_Jack Dark_*

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Posted 25 November 2011 - 07:09 PM

One interesting question is whether using the lord's prayer backwards is really intended to be blasphemous or that the inversion was considered to add power in the same way that a Sator square or Abracadabra pyramid might.

I can recall a case of it being presented as evidence against someone in one of the witch trials - the one that the film The Devils was based on, I think - but merely inverting it isn't blasphemous in itself. I've heard a couple of actually blasphemous versions, some of which were quite funny, 'Our Master, who farts at heaven, legion be his names... etc' but they were quite different to the Hoodoo version, as Huson describes.

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#20 JuniperBaby

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Posted 25 November 2011 - 07:42 PM

Okay, I'm afraid to recite the LP backwards, but I'm going to be really slow in interpreting what that means. A lot of things are not black and white. In the past, I've felt ashamed, weak, chicken, etc and done things I regret to prove something to myself and to others, that didn't need to be proved, or just wasn't so black or white.

I was told that if I didn't do such and such, it meant such and such. Really? Prove it, has become my motto before I jump, to prove I'm not weak. Or prove to me that it matters and will be helpful.

I'm listening and learning, but...doing nothing till I'm ready and sure. Yes, sometimes I'm a little slow to act, but...that has helped me more often than harmed me. And being quick to act has harmed me more often that helped me. despite seldom doing it.

There is so much about the universe I don't understand. I don't like toying with what I don't understand. Doing nothing is a choice, so doing nothing has it's consequences too. I realize that. But when it comes to mocking a deity any deity...I feel like I'm being disrespectful to energy that is sacred to someone. I don't know :-0

I'll be thinking on this a bit.

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