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Working with Spirit and Things Going Wrong


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#1 Michele

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 01:01 PM

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Due to the recent threads about spirit dolls, thought-forms, "house old ladies", servitors, sprits houses, and whatever else one wants to call them the subject came up in chat about the dangers of these things and when things go wrong and the wisdom of working that when one works alone (i.e. no teachers/elders) and I thought it prudent to address this on the forum (and for any FYI's it was a very friendly, informative and enjoyable chat, lol).

The first belief I have is that the one thing man will never be able to bottle, teach, or pass on is common sense. And I'm not claiming I have any, lol, but one can read about how to make spirit dolls, and one can read about how to drive a car. Doing either at one's own pace and with precatuion is up to the common sense of the reader. Information about anything is out there it is up to the reader to decide what to do with it and whether or not they feel comfortable working with it, and if they don't feel comfortable to decide if they are willing to take that risk. Without effort and experimentation there is no learning and no moving forward on a solitary path. Having had to walk that path alone, I am of the (possibly unusual) mindset that as long as it is not personal I usually don't mind sharing information (and no, no one told me or suggested I shouldn't, lol).

It is very true that in making anything to house a thing of a different nature, one can unintentionally "leave doors open". That has happened to me with a poppet and something I did not intend came in and started using the poppet as a portal/entrance into this world. It became a problem. I finally figured out where the problem was coming from and then got rid of it. Some people are less lucky in the magnitude of their "problem" and/or their ability to get rid of it. But in a solitary path if one does not attempt, and one does not deal with thiings that come up, one is not going anywhere.

One of the first things I would personally suggest is knowing well the energy of your own home. Know it to the point that if things are going wrong (and they may not be that obvious at first) that you can "feel"the shift. If you feel this, address it immediately. And never create something you would not be willing to destroy. If you are a die-hard animal lover then don't make the housing for your spirit in a cute little puppy teddy-bear that you would not be willing to rip to shreds, stab to death, cut to pieces, burn to a cinder, and banish. Don't feel sorry for things and don't take anythign at face value. If your soft-spot is the doe-eyed mistreated child, then that which would work it's way in may well take on that appearance. You have to work on feeling with your gut, not yor emotional associations. Doe-eyed children can have teeth and claws and other things can and do appear in whatever form we are most likely to accept them. Take nothing for granted and take nothing at face value.

Know what you want and mean what you say. "Ummm.. please go away now(I think. I mean, if you really are not what you look like.)" In a way it's like bring up a small child - if you constantly threaten "do that one more time and yo're grounded for the next 70 years" right then and there the kid knows damn well you're not grounding him for the next 70 years so you've already lost some credibility. And the phone rings and you answer and the kid does it again and you ignore him becuase you're on the phone. Kids know very well when you mean what you say and what you don't and exactly how many times you will say sotp before you loose your temper and enforce it. When working with spirits mean what you say. Do what you say. Act immediately and confidently and question yourself afterwards. Don't yell and scream bacuse like the kids, they will know it means nothing but you yelling and screaming - quiet, confident (whether you're scared or not - fear is not wrong), concise action gets results. Over-emotion gets escelation and a lot of loose energy running about to feed off of. You can't help what you personally feel. If you feel frightened (and I have been frightened and/or creeped out often) that is okay, how you choose to react to that feeling is what matters.

And this is not to say that spirits are necessarily "little mischieous (sp) kids" to control (although some can be like that). Some spirits are a lot "higher up" than I will ever be in this life and some are tons stronger than I will ever be. But you have to be able to stand your ground. Any allies you have, if you mean what you say, will know that if you say to a thing "you outta here" that you mean it and will back you up. Allies that have seen you waver and wishy-washy may well sit back and wait to see what you really do mean if you rarely say what you mean. One's word means a LOT on many different levels in the craft, besides honour and integrity. It is also a form of ccommunication and not merely by the words said, but by how you back them up.

Thought-forms are also not slaves. I do know of some people who treat them like that - treat them like shit, punish them and in my opinion actually abuse them. If you wouldn't do that to a working animal (i.e. the oxen you use to pull your plough, not as a pet) then don't treat anything else under your control like that. One can control through fear and abuse and ego, but it is a very iffy and deceptive control and breeds anger and hate - must better to control through respect and ability.

Also, know your allies. There is nothing wrong with having allies and needing allies. It is not a symptom of "a witch without her own power." Your allies can become your actual teachers, develop an interest and fondness for you, and if you prove your integrity and worth and staying power to them, they will back you up. They don't suffer fools gladly and you will be tested(or at least I have been) but they do understand actual effort. To me a spiritual life and relationship and allies is very important, more so than magic. Magic can be worked without that, but you're working alone in a void. If you don't know your spiritual beliefs and base then you don't konw what you work with. Yes spiritual beliefs have to be investigated and learned to one's own interpretation, but I would apply the same rules there. Respect, quiet strength, integrity, and honesty.

M

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#2 Elvira

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 03:53 PM

Thankyou Michele, for writing this. I'm almost ready to start working with spirits (just a bit more work needed on the fear factor). I have read with great interest all the recent posts about Spirit although I didn't feel knowledgable in practise to make any useful comments.

As you so rightly state state in your second paragraph, its not something I'm rushing into, I've done alot of reading; here on the forums, on various internet sites and books, and have had to deal with doubts as to whether or not I wanted to go any further. My gut feelings are that I do.


So thankyou again for posting your observations, they are a timely reminder and gratefully received.


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#3 Sparrow

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 04:23 PM

Michele, thank you for sharing such wisdom. I needed to hear all of this, especially the part about what you feel is what you feel, and that it's okay as long as you keep it under control. If truth be told, getting back my perception of spirits which aren't land/nature spirits (trees etc., I never lost that) has put me well out of my comfort zone (though it's exciting too). I think that's largely because it's been so unexpected, and some of it I'm sure is also a conditioned response.

I'm going to try not to push myself too far beyond my limits at the moment. I am still figuring out exactly what I believe. I know for certain that spirits are there, whether or not I feel able to work with them directly is another matter. Mostly I think I'm scared of biting off way more than I can chew. I don't really know what I can and cannot handle yet. I definitely don't want to end up in a situation where I'm working with spirits for fear of what will happen if I don't. I acknowledge they are there but I am not sure exactly what to do with that acknowledgement.

Sorry if this is all a bit scrambled, just back from a long walk.

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"All knowledge is worth having."

#4 Michele

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 05:14 PM

And a thank you to Jevne and Scylla (sp?) for planting the notion that some of the downside should be discussed, lol.

M

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#5 Autumn Moon

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 05:30 PM

Very good and informative post Michele!

I would add...do NOT waffle on one's decision. Make your decision, carry it out, and do not look back. Do not second guess yourself, and do not cave in to pleading or threats from a given entity. Stand your ground firmly.

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#6 Jevne

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 05:38 PM

And a thank you to Jevne and Scylla (sp?) for planting the notion that some of the downside should be discussed, lol.

M


Thank you for taking the time to create this valuable thread.

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#7 ejfinch

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 06:25 PM

This is definately a very timely post for me, as well. Thank you, Michele, and well done!
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#8 Scylla

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 06:30 PM

Indeed - thanks for taking the time to go over some of these topics. It's not (generally) all doom and gloom - but it can turn that way. My main criticism of books is that they often don't cover "And if somehow that doesn't work right, and this happens..."
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#9 GardeningMommy

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 08:29 PM

I'm going to try not to push myself too far beyond my limits at the moment. I am still figuring out exactly what I believe. I know for certain that spirits are there, whether or not I feel able to work with them directly is another matter. Mostly I think I'm scared of biting off way more than I can chew. I don't really know what I can and cannot handle yet. I definitely don't want to end up in a situation where I'm working with spirits for fear of what will happen if I don't. I acknowledge they are there but I am not sure exactly what to do with that acknowledgement.


Thank you, Michele, for posting this as it is very timely for me, too. And Sparrow.... I couldn't have said it better. Sounds like we are both in the same boat. I know things can go wrong, and with kids in the house, it worries me. I've had issues with spirits before that I hadn't (at least not intentionally) provoked/invoked/invited, and it was not something that I want to repeat with the littles running around. On the other hand, I can't shake the feeling that this is the direction that I need to go. But in the meantime, I'll read, and keep reading, and when I think I'm ready... I'll read some more, just to make sure. Sigh.... like my best friend says, though, "Nothing worth anything in this life is ever gotten without risk".

Thanks to everyone, though... at least I know I'm not the only one who is uncertain about this.

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#10 Michele

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 08:48 PM

... I know things can go wrong, and with kids in the house, it worries me. ..


My son (who is 20 and not into witchcraft) was in the house sleeping as were 2 other people when I had a little "problem" and the other two sleeping girls got physically ill with the same (not air-born) illness and I was also hit (differently) but my son was fine (he was about 16 or 17 at the time). I later discussed this with him becuae I was curious why he didn't get sick and he said (majorly paraphrased) "You remener when I was little and you told me how to protect myself before I go to sleep and said I sould do it every night? I do - don't you do it everynight like you told me to?"

And no, I didn't at that time. I had just kinda "got out of the habit." It never pays to be too lax or too cocky lol.

M

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#11 Michele

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 09:39 PM

... and do not cave in to pleading or threats from a given entity. Stand your ground firmly.


That is interesting to me regarding spirit houses and such - I usually see spirits more as "spirit energies" rather than physicaly manifesting sit down and converse with me beings - unless it is a dream interaction (which varies but is much less "human-like"). I also don't want people to think I'm going about offing spirits, lol, but only if there is a problem I would banish it from my house or bind it into something (did that once with an obsidian in a jar, then "let it go" out in the wild). I know that sounds daft, but again re responsibility I didn't want this thing leaving my house and popping into the nearist dewlling (my neighbor's). But my "talking" with spirits for me comes in more like "downloaded knowledge" if that makes any sense. I really don't know how else to explain it. But also, I don't work with the more ceremonial rituals which conjure an entity (often against its will) into triangles in which it is my understanding they do physicaly manifest. I tend to work with things that want to work with me... it seems to be more of a "softer" energy if that makes sense. Yes, one can end up with something not nice, but for me the majority of the time it is something beneficial. With my spirit houses I don't do a ritual to open actually open a specific portal. My thought-form old lady was something different, and becuase of what I was doing it was done in a protected space and was completed in that space until she was bound to me (which I used a blood-cord for) and only then did I take down the protection. I do believe that magic worked attracts attentioin. What we do may not be seen by the neighbors, but it is seen in other worlds and once one waves a flag and yells "Hey all - I'm here" even if they don't mean to do anything other than their specific working, it is seen. A compass laid is a compass laid. One's neighbors may just think its the crazy neighbor walking in cirlces again, but the other worlds know what it is and they take notice.

M

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#12 Heks

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 09:54 PM

My son (who is 20 and not into witchcraft) was in the house sleeping as were 2 other people when I had a little "problem" and the other two sleeping girls got physically ill with the same (not air-born) illness and I was also hit (differently) but my son was fine (he was about 16 or 17 at the time). I later discussed this with him becuae I was curious why he didn't get sick and he said (majorly paraphrased) "You remener when I was little and you told me how to protect myself before I go to sleep and said I sould do it every night? I do - don't you do it everynight like you told me to?"

And no, I didn't at that time. I had just kinda "got out of the habit." It never pays to be too lax or too cocky lol.

M


Dear Michele,


As I have two children in the house, I was wondering what you told your son to say to protect himself; that may be useful for me as I could teach my children to do the same! If you cannot, that's OK.

I was also wondering about the following: my children go to their Muslim dad every week-end. When they enter my house, I feel as though djinn or any Muslim entities are at my door and I don't want them to enter my house. I believe that the power of my mind is strong enough to keep them out as I cannot feel anything here, but I just feel I need to be prepared.

The power of words, yes I understand that power. Maybe I need to say it out loud: namely that I do not want any djinn in my house.

I am aware that djinn come from a pre-Islamic tradition and were incorporated into Islam. I do not practice it any more, but I still have a connection with it, and with the spirits who believe in it. I want to sever that connection. I do not mind having the knowledge I gathered about Islam, as I have discovered that any knowledge is useful, but I want to be free. I would be interested in your honest thoughts regarding this issue, if you have time, thanks!


Kind regards,

Heks Posted Image (me reading the posts, lol, holding a cup of tea!! bliss! Posted Image)

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"One's own house, though small, is better,
For there thou art the master.
It makes a man's heart bleed to ask
for a midday meal at the house of another."

(35 Havamal, Edda)

#13 Michele

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 10:07 PM

...I was also wondering about the following: my children go to their Muslim dad every week-end. When they enter my house, I feel as though djinn or any Muslim entities are at my door and I don't want them to enter my house. I believe that the power of my mind is strong enough to keep them out as I cannot feel anything here, but I just feel I need to be prepared.

The power of words, yes I understand that power. Maybe I need to say it out loud: namely that I do not want any djinn in my house...


Heks Posted Image (me reading the posts, lol, holding a cup of tea!! bliss! Posted Image)


Are these things you have actually worked with, or just things you are aware exist? What does a djinn mean to you - not the definition, but why do you think this is comming looking for you? I know little of Muslin practices, and I am surprised they would include any evcation of spirits and/or djinn. Is this an emotional association and reaction, or does your ex practice magic?

I am loathe to say how I told my son to protect himself only becuase it is so simple that it sounds laughable, lol. But honestly, it has always worked for me. Despite all the hooha about circles, spheres have been used in occult and magic for ages. I told him to place himself within a glowing circle of light. I will also blast out my house with this - I breathe in and out and gather up the flame (serpent energy, forge fire, whatever one wants to call it) inside my center until it is very built up and then just blast it out through the house, pushing out any build-up and then placing my house and myself within a circle of light. Oddly breathing in that flame doesn't "wake" me up and get me wired, but rather centers me and after it is blasted I feel very relaxed and usually go to sleep quite easily. Kids are usually familiar with Christmas balls, so I would say to imagine a Christmas ball made of light and step inside of it. Even in the animal world, herds that are threatened will often place the babies in the center and form a circle about them facing outwards against the threat.

M

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#14 Heks

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 11:18 PM

Are these things you have actually worked with, or just things you are aware exist? What does a djinn mean to you - not the definition, but why do you think this is comming looking for you? I know little of Muslin practices, and I am surprised they would include any evcation of spirits and/or djinn. Is this an emotional association and reaction, or does your ex practice magic?

Dear Michele,
I think djinn would see me as a likely candidate to follow Islam as I believe in other worlds and supernatural powers. They try to channel my beliefs in to worshippping their illah or God, and it was only when I held my Witch figurine in my hand that the spell was broken so to speak and I woke up! I then left that religion for ever. (I have knowledge though, which I want to use to protect myself.) The figurine of the Witch in my hand was a wake-up call! I suddenly felt so attached to this figurine, and that was that.

Now I want to protect myself. My ex-husband does not practice magic, to my knowledge, and this link with Islam predates him in any case. Yes, Muslims do use djinn to predict the future, but these are usually people who are in danger in Muslim countries, where such divination practices are forbidden. For me to ignore djinn would be dangerous. I simply want nothing to do with them any more, whether they are Muslim or not. I am aware of them but don't want to interact with them. I wish to have a shield between them and me. I am now connecting with my ancestors, as I am learning more about my Mother's line and have discovered my Great-Grandmother had a relationship with a crow and used to paint animal's feet on the walls of her house! I was always spiritual and I wasted a lot of years on a religion which never made me happy. Now I am going back to my roots, and my Great-Grandmother Emma has become an anchor for me now. Muslim Witches may use djinn but I am not Muslim and I don't want to use them and I don't want to be used by them either!

I am loathe to say how I told my son to protect himself only becuase it is so simple that it sounds laughable, lol. But honestly, it has always worked for me. Despite all the hooha about circles, spheres have been used in occult and magic for ages. I told him to place himself within a glowing circle of light. I will also blast out my house with this - I breathe in and out and gather up the flame (serpent energy, forge fire, whatever one wants to call it) inside my center until it is very built up and then just blast it out through the house, pushing out any build-up and then placing my house and myself within a circle of light. Oddly breathing in that flame doesn't "wake" me up and get me wired, but rather centers me and after it is blasted I feel very relaxed and usually go to sleep quite easily. Kids are usually familiar with Christmas balls, so I would say to imagine a Christmas ball made of light and step inside of it. Even in the animal world, herds that are threatened will often place the babies in the center and form a circle about them facing outwards against the threat.

Thank you for that, it is very useful and easy to visualise! Also, fire has so much meaning in all religions and beliefsystems of the world. Fire is very powerful. Thank you!!!
Heks Posted Image

M


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"One's own house, though small, is better,
For there thou art the master.
It makes a man's heart bleed to ask
for a midday meal at the house of another."

(35 Havamal, Edda)

#15 Jevne

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 11:45 PM

Are these things you have actually worked with, or just things you are aware exist? What does a djinn mean to you - not the definition, but why do you think this is comming looking for you? I know little of Muslin practices, and I am surprised they would include any evcation of spirits and/or djinn. Is this an emotional association and reaction, or does your ex practice magic?
M


I was unclear about this point in our previous discussions, regarding the djinn. Someone (sorry, I forget who) mentioned that the word 'djinn' can imply any type of spirit; however, the mythology surrounding the djinn seemed indicative of a separate entity of a higher stature than everyday house spirits.

Which begs the questions asked by Michele: Why would a djinn target a specific person? I do not want to be dismissive of Hek's concern; however, other than leaving Islam, what reason would the djinn have for seeking out a specific person? The answer on how to deal with djinn lies, in my opinion, in understanding why they would choose interaction. Any protections put in place would be strengthened, I believe, by answering the question of "Why?".

J

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#16 Wytchywoman

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 12:06 AM

Excellent thread and very much needed too.

Personally, I consider all spirit houses/dolls/or whatever one might call it, portal for just about anything along with their intended spirit. I also do not believe that the intended spirits are necessarily at a person's beckon call to come into the house whenever the person wants it, therefore the person has an open portal to an unoccupied spirit house thing at times. Almost like if you leave your doors unlocked. Maybe you tell your sister they are unlocked so she can get it (she doesn't have a key) but it leaves a risk for anyone just wandering on in. Even if some one takes great care in putting spells on the house to keep others out, I believe there is still always some loop hole or chance of one finding their way in anyways, and it wouldn't take much.

I choose not to use things like this, and instead, I like to meet up with the spirits more in the spiritual realm. I use some creative visionary as well, and create a place for us to meet and take myself there, calling to who I wish to see. So far this as been my favored method but even this isn't perfect and has it's risks too. Like one time, I was dumb enough to drift off to sleep in the middle of it, not ending the session. That surely made for quite a sucky night and I woke up sooo drained.

Regardless of which ways a person might choose to interact with spirits, discussions on the risks and how to minimize them are forever valuable to learn and this discussion could not have come at a better time for sure.

PS: Michele, that simple protection method is not at all laughable, I think it works pretty well. It mirrors what I do as well.

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Smile! It makes people wonder what you're up to..

#17 Heks

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 12:09 AM

I was unclear about this point in our previous discussions, regarding the djinn. Someone (sorry, I forget who) mentioned that the word 'djinn' can imply any type of spirit; however, the mythology surrounding the djinn seemed indicative of a separate entity of a higher stature than everyday house spirits.

Which begs the questions asked by Michele: Why would a djinn target a specific person? I do not want to be dismissive of Hek's concern; however, other than leaving Islam, what reason would the djinn have for seeking out a specific person? The answer on how to deal with djinn lies, in my opinion, in understanding why they would choose interaction. Any protections put in place would be strengthened, I believe, by answering the question of "Why?".

J


Dear Jevne,


That makes sense! I do feel I am all right now, at last, and have not felt anything at all since leaving Islam so I guess am just worried about something which lies in the past! I do feel quite strong now and I think that I should not worry about djinn any more, as I have left their world, so to speak!

But the question "why?" is one I cannot answer, at least not yet. Maybe I never will find the answer. I read somewhere in a post that djinn want to invade a human being so that that human being brings them back home, home being somewhere in the Middle East and that is something I cannot ignore; lots of converts to Islam do move to Muslim countries! But, thankfully, I am no longer in that situation and should just forget about it and move on with my explorations in the magical world which has opened up to me now and in which I am very very happy!

Kind regards,

Heks Posted Image

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"One's own house, though small, is better,
For there thou art the master.
It makes a man's heart bleed to ask
for a midday meal at the house of another."

(35 Havamal, Edda)

#18 GardeningMommy

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 12:23 AM

I don't have specific knowledge on djinn, and yet the fear of being targeted by an entity that might be angered that you left it's religion makes sense to me. And maybe its anger due to that situation might be the sole reason "why". Like I mentioned before, I've had some odd, and some bad, experiences in the past. When I was in my twenties, I did cast circles to work my magic, but one evening something happened that I couldn't explain and it scared terribly. I immediately closed the circle and put my stuff away with the intention of not going back to it. That's when the bad stuff started happening, and it got so bad that eventually my husband and I had to move. The move itself didn't completely stop whatever was going on, but things began to taper off soon after. So my only guess is that something was present when I cast my circles, even though I didn't know it, and was mighty pissed when I stopped. Interestingly enough, I started casting for the first time in 9 years a few months ago, and lo and behold, odd things have started happening again. Thus, I think you can see why I am so interesting in figuring this out, because my gut is telling me that if I can purposely make contact, or at least learn how to control myself, things might not go haywire again.

Edited by GardeningMommy, 22 November 2011 - 12:25 AM.

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#19 Heks

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 12:28 AM

I don't have specific knowledge on djinn, and yet the fear of being targeted by an entity that might be angered that you left it's religion makes sense to me. And maybe its anger due to that situation might be the sole reason "why". Like I mentioned before, I've had some odd, and some bad, experiences in the past. When I was in my twenties, I did cast circles to work my magic, but one evening something happened that I couldn't explain and it scared terribly. I immediately closed the circle and put my stuff away with the intention of not going back to it. That's when the bad stuff started happening, and it got so bad that eventually my husband and I had to move. The move itself didn't completely stop whatever was going on, but things began to taper off soon after. So my only guess is that something was present when I cast my circles, even though I didn't know it, and was mighty pissed when I stopped. Interestingly enough, I started casting for the first time in 9 years a few months ago, and lo and behold, odd things have started happening again. Thus, I think you can see why I am so interesting in figuring this out, because my gut is telling me that if I can purposely make contact, or at least learn how to control myself, things might not go haywire again.


Dear GardeningMommy,


Thank you for your thoughts and for sharing your experiences. Posted Image I am sure that if you voice your worries on this forum, people will be interested and will try to help you forwards.

Kind regards,

Heks Posted Image


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"One's own house, though small, is better,
For there thou art the master.
It makes a man's heart bleed to ask
for a midday meal at the house of another."

(35 Havamal, Edda)

#20 GardeningMommy

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 12:42 AM

I almost forgot.... thank you, Michele,for the protection idea. It's not silly as all... quite clever, actually. I will definitely use this some time in the future. For now though,my youngest is still a babe.
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