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Where Power Comes Fom


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#21 Guest_Elfyd_*

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Posted 20 August 2011 - 01:14 AM

This may be gettig OT, but I think what E is referring to (and please correct me E if I am wrong) is the belief of some paths of craft that a witch is born and not made, and that the deciding factor is the 'spark" within, the seed, whatever one calls it, also sometimes recognized as the "Mark of Cain." It is akin to recognizing the divinity of the self, but not in an egotistical "screw you all I'm God" type of way, lol. The belief says that some people have this "seed/spark" and some don't and those that don't are the men of clay, and the ones who do have it are the men of fire - the witches. It is being born a witch (although if the blood is not awakened, the witch isn't either). Again, it is a belief some have and I think is what Elf was referring to when he referenced power source.

M


As usual M says what i think/mean in a clear, concise and detailed way.

CG - See above, also by "inherit" I was tying into the thread, the intangible and eternal aspect of us. The term "splinter" is not my own, it was coined by (Phoenix I believe) a contributer on another site last year. This was the divine spark seen as a splinter of the divinity of a shattered beginning of ALL.

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#22 CelticGypsy

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Posted 21 August 2011 - 09:20 PM

This may be gettig OT, but I think what E is referring to (and please correct me E if I am wrong) is the belief of some paths of craft that a witch is born and not made, and that the deciding factor is the 'spark" within, the seed, whatever one calls it, also sometimes recognized as the "Mark of Cain." It is akin to recognizing the divinity of the self, but not in an egotistical "screw you all I'm God" type of way, lol. The belief says that some people have this "seed/spark" and some don't and those that don't are the men of clay, and the ones who do have it are the men of fire - the witches. It is being born a witch (although if the blood is not awakened, the witch isn't either). Again, it is a belief some have and I think is what Elf was referring to when he referenced power source.

M



As usual M says what i think/mean in a clear, concise and detailed way.

CG - See above, also by "inherit" I was tying into the thread, the intangible and eternal aspect of us. The term "splinter" is not my own, it was coined by (Phoenix I believe) a contributer on another site last year. This was the divine spark seen as a splinter of the divinity of a shattered beginning of ALL.

FFFF
Elf


I'm sorry but I'm not getting this at all ! I'm confused by the word "inherit", I think, as that particular word implies an Heir to me, blood fashioned. Anybody can inherit another persons objects, and one doesn't have to be blood kin to do so. Yet if they are gifts or talents, some of us come up lacking. I surely didn't inherit my Mother's talent/gift for painting. While I agree that the "spark" is within the Witch, the Witch whether she/he is born by blood, or initial internal awareness, the Witch has to take that "spark" and with whatever accelerant needs to be utilized, that causes the fire to persevere and seek more personal knowledge. The accelerant can be one's personal belief system the Witch has to have a strong conviction rather than outside proof that the path he/she is initiating to walk upon is a path of discovery of becomming. It is within the Witch, it resides there, and he/she doesn't need outside proof that it is there. He/She is the physical Lesson, the Path is the Teacher. Just my thoughts and opinion only.

Regards,
Gypsy

ps. I don't openly want to sound stupid or snarky to my Peers, that is not my intent at all, I'm just looking for clarity.

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" The last thing you wanted a Witch to do is get bored and start making her own amusements, because Witches sometimes have erratically famous ideas about what was amusing "

 

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#23 Brigid

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Posted 21 August 2011 - 09:45 PM

Perhaps the word inherent was what was intended??
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Ritualistic behaviour, though well-intentioned, possesses no significance or effectiveness unless its external prescription is matched by a personal, internal motivation of will and desire.

#24 Guest_Elfyd_*

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Posted 21 August 2011 - 10:16 PM

I'm sorry but I'm not getting this at all ! I'm confused by the word "inherit", I think, as that particular word implies an Heir to me, blood fashioned. Anybody can inherit another persons objects, and one doesn't have to be blood kin to do so. Yet if they are gifts or talents, some of us come up lacking. I surely didn't inherit my Mother's talent/gift for painting. While I agree that the "spark" is within the Witch, the Witch whether she/he is born by blood, or initial internal awareness, the Witch has to take that "spark" and with whatever accelerant needs to be utilized, that causes the fire to persevere and seek more personal knowledge. The accelerant can be one's personal belief system the Witch has to have a strong conviction rather than outside proof that the path he/she is initiating to walk upon is a path of discovery of becomming. It is within the Witch, it resides there, and he/she doesn't need outside proof that it is there. He/She is the physical Lesson, the Path is the Teacher. Just my thoughts and opinion only.

Regards,
Gypsy

ps. I don't openly want to sound stupid or snarky to my Peers, that is not my intent at all, I'm just looking for clarity.


Gypsy,
Snarky & stupid are two words that do NOT fit when referencing you.
I am sorry if i have clouded this topic for you. With reference to Brigids suggestion, I will supplant the word inherent in my comments in place of inherit.
Hope this helps,
FFFF
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#25 Mr. Li Liu

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Posted 21 August 2011 - 10:51 PM

I agree with the OP completely. Everything has a power, and anyone can learn to combine their own power with others. In hoodoo, we believe that the herbs and minerals have their own spirit, and the techniques of hoodoo let you get that spirit working with you to power your spells. I think that's basically true of every item or tool you use in witchcraft. Otherwise, it just becomes "the Law of Attraction with props".
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#26 Michele

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Posted 22 August 2011 - 02:02 AM

Perhaps the word inherent was what was intended??


Perhaps the word "inherit" could refer to the spark one is born with - it doesn't just come out of nowhere and is not a coincidence and it does come from another "thing" but not necessarily a human-physical-DNA thing but that's kinda getting into Watcher lore and may be another thread, lol...

M

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#27 CelticGypsy

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Posted 22 August 2011 - 02:36 AM

Yes the word " inherit " could be viable, as the Heir is worthy of this, almost a "rite". I liken this to a personal experiance. My Father's eyes were green. My Mothers blue. I was the only child that inherited green eyes out of 3 children. When I look at the word inherent ( thanks Brigid ) that references a privilege likened to a Drivers License. Could it be that when a person has that initial internal awareness that they are Witch, its a privilege that is offered and it is up to that person to take up on the offer, and initiate their path because they were not born of Witch blood ?:thinking: The Craft/Path/Arte is eternal, the human physical vessel is not. Just my ponderings :smile:

Regards,
Gypsy

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" The last thing you wanted a Witch to do is get bored and start making her own amusements, because Witches sometimes have erratically famous ideas about what was amusing "

 

Terry Pratchett Legends 1 


#28 Jevne

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Posted 22 August 2011 - 02:49 AM

Could it be that when a person has that initial internal awareness that they are Witch, its a privilege that is offered and it is up to that person to take up on the offer, and initiate their path because they were not born of Witch blood ?:thinking: Regards,
Gypsy


So, in essence (correct me if I'm off base), you are saying that just because someone is not born with spark, doesn't mean that they can't cultivate a magical presence. They will just have to work harder at it?

J

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#29 CelticGypsy

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Posted 22 August 2011 - 03:00 AM

So, in essence (correct me if I'm off base), you are saying that just because someone is not born with spark, doesn't mean that they can't cultivate a magical presence. They will just have to work harder at it?

J



Yes darlin' much like your mundane " Students " that YOU ( as the Accelerant ) sees the potential " flame ". I can't imagine that you will not fan that "fire" .:smile: You may or not take them under your Wing, but you may just nudge them int the right direction. As our M. Witch says... " Guide "

Regards,
Gypsy

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" The last thing you wanted a Witch to do is get bored and start making her own amusements, because Witches sometimes have erratically famous ideas about what was amusing "

 

Terry Pratchett Legends 1 


#30 Adder

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Posted 22 August 2011 - 07:01 AM

I tend to think power comes from principles of harmonic resonance in energy fields. Some people are born sensitive to it and discover how to tune into detection, prediction and even manipulation, but that generally everyone has some capacity for it if they worked at finding it.
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#31 Wyrd

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Posted 22 August 2011 - 12:57 PM

What ever one believes, that's their truth, If one believes that one can, or that one can't, it's the same thing.

Belief channels the energy, believe in nothing and one will be powerless.


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#32 Michele

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Posted 23 August 2011 - 01:54 AM



... believe in nothing and one will be powerless.


Or completely free (according to Janis, lol)

M

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#33 Aloe

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Posted 23 October 2011 - 12:51 AM

It almost seems as if "power" has become a dirty word among some witches, like it has to be all about connection with something greater. While I do think that connections to a greater source (however you perceive that source or sources) are valid and important, I believe (personally) that a witch also possesses their own internal power and much can be accomplished with it. I find focusing on connection only to be an unbalanced view. At the risk of sounded "deluded", I do believe that I was born with this power, as it was manifesting itself through me and through connections making themselves known to me long before it ever occurred to me to seek to use that power to my advantage. I'm not of the belief that I would lose the abilities that come natural to me if I denied their source and used them for my own ego only. I think they would remain in me and be as strong as they ever were, I just might be more of an asshole than I already am. ;)
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"The people who live in the Ozark country of Missouri and Arkansas were, until very recently, the most deliberately unprogressive people in the United States. Descended from pioneers who came West from the Southern Appalachians at the beginning of the nineteenth century, they made little contact with the outer world for more than a hundred years. They seem like foreigners to the average urban American, but nearly all of them come of British stock, and many families have lived in America since colonial days. Their material heirlooms are few, but like all isolated illiterates they have clung to the old songs and obsolete sayings and outworn customs of their ancestors." Ozark Magic and Folklore

#34 Jevne

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Posted 23 October 2011 - 01:28 AM

It almost seems as if "power" has become a dirty word among some witches, like it has to be all about connection with something greater. While I do think that connections to a greater source (however you perceive that source or sources) are valid and important, I believe (personally) that a witch also possesses their own internal power and much can be accomplished with it. I find focusing on connection only to be an unbalanced view. At the risk of sounded "deluded", I do believe that I was born with this power, as it was manifesting itself through me and through connections making themselves known to me long before it ever occurred to me to seek to use that power to my advantage. I'm not of the belief that I would lose the abilities that come natural to me if I denied their source and used them for my own ego only. I think they would remain in me and be as strong as they ever were, I just might be more of an asshole than I already am. ;)


Thank you, Aloe, for saying this so well. Absolutely no disrespect intended to those who work to cultivate a relationship with deity or establish a connection with higher beings, because such activities are associated with many spiritual paths, including those of many Witches. However, as you have pointed out, the Craft, specifically the magical part of the Craft, does not require worship of specific deity; hence, the number of Witches, who are atheists.

I share your sentiment. I believe that I was born with power. It is not something that I have to wait for a particular entity to bestow upon me, if I happen to be a good girl. I will admit, that few of my workings are noble and/or for the greater good. I'm not a completely horrible person, but a certain amount of arrogance is an unwritten requirement of any spellcasting.

J

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#35 Aloe

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Posted 23 October 2011 - 01:32 AM

Thank you, Aloe, for saying this so well. Absolutely no disrespect intended to those who work to cultivate a relationship with deity or establish a connection with higher beings, because such activities are associated with many spiritual paths, including those of many Witches. However, as you have pointed out, the Craft, specifically the magical part of the Craft, does not require worship of specific deity; hence, the number of Witches, who are atheists.

I share your sentiment. I believe that I was born with power. It is not something that I have to wait for a particular entity to bestow upon me, if I happen to be a good girl. I will admit, that few of my workings are noble and/or for the greater good. I'm not a completely horrible person, but a certain amount of arrogance is an unwritten requirement of any spellcasting.

J


Quite welcome. I'm sure they could also go hand in hand, natural power and a connection with deity(deities), but its not something I've really explored in depth yet.

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"The people who live in the Ozark country of Missouri and Arkansas were, until very recently, the most deliberately unprogressive people in the United States. Descended from pioneers who came West from the Southern Appalachians at the beginning of the nineteenth century, they made little contact with the outer world for more than a hundred years. They seem like foreigners to the average urban American, but nearly all of them come of British stock, and many families have lived in America since colonial days. Their material heirlooms are few, but like all isolated illiterates they have clung to the old songs and obsolete sayings and outworn customs of their ancestors." Ozark Magic and Folklore

#36 Michele

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Posted 23 October 2011 - 01:36 AM

... I'm not of the belief that I would lose the abilities that come natural to me if I denied their source and used them for my own ego only...


Obviously (or not! lol) I am going through something right now (which I am not going to get into), but I don't think that "power" deserts me if I use it for my ego and deny its source - power is energy and energy is not cognizant. Energy runs through everything and is the living force of everything (including things that don't breathe, like rocks, water, etc.). Accessing that energy is what makes and manipulates magic. I do believe that if this energy ceased to exist, every living thing on this planet would cease to live. Denying the source of this energy won't negate my ability to access the energy, but for my path denying the source does give me less understanding of this energy if I don't understand or ever look for where it comes from. In that respect, without this source I cease to exist, becuase the energy then ceases to exist. The energy is the land serpent that powers every living thing. Any power I have comes from my ability to cognizantly interact with this energy and manipulate it, not any power that is in me, personally. Maybe some people are different, but without that energy I not only don't have any power, I don't even exist. My path happens to be heavily "spiritual" as well as practical, so for me the source of this living energy, its meaning to me, and my realtionship to it, is extremely important.

M

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#37 Aloe

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Posted 23 October 2011 - 01:39 AM

Obviously (or not! lol) I am going through something right now (which I am not going to get into), but I don't think that "power" deserts me if I use it for my ego and deny its source - power is energy and energy is not cognizant. Energy runs through everything and is the living force of everything (including things that don't breathe, like rocks, water, etc.). Accessing that energy is what makes and manipulates magic. I do believe that if this energy ceased to exist, every living thing on this planet would cease to live. Denying the source of this energy won't negate my ability to access the energy, but for my path denying the source does give me less understanding of this energy if I don't understand or ever look for where it comes from. In that respect, without this source I cease to exist, becuase the energy then ceases to exist. The energy is the land serpent that powers every living thing. Any power I have comes from my ability to cognizantly interact with this energy and manipulate it, not any power that is in me, personally. Maybe some people are different, but without that energy I not only don't have any power, I don't even exist. My path happens to be heavily "spiritual" as well as practical, so for me the source of this living energy, its meaning to me, and my realtionship to it, is extremely important.

M


Certainly, we all have our own paths to follow and they're extremely varied. Conversations here would be boring as hell if we all followed the exact same practice and agreed all the time! lol

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"The people who live in the Ozark country of Missouri and Arkansas were, until very recently, the most deliberately unprogressive people in the United States. Descended from pioneers who came West from the Southern Appalachians at the beginning of the nineteenth century, they made little contact with the outer world for more than a hundred years. They seem like foreigners to the average urban American, but nearly all of them come of British stock, and many families have lived in America since colonial days. Their material heirlooms are few, but like all isolated illiterates they have clung to the old songs and obsolete sayings and outworn customs of their ancestors." Ozark Magic and Folklore

#38 Jevne

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Posted 23 October 2011 - 01:42 AM

Quite welcome. I'm sure they could also go hand in hand, natural power and a connection with deity(deities), but its not something I've really explored in depth yet.


There are those who say that a powerful connection to one's ancestors mirrors the relationship to deities. I suppose this is true, depending on the nature of that relationship; yet, it is all really a matter of perspective and the specific entities involved. I mean, I know my ancestors, both living and dead, well. They love me, but if I got all "oh, please, sir, can I have another?", they would tell me to stop being a whiny-ass and go after what I want.

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#39 Whiterose

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Posted 23 October 2011 - 03:49 AM

It almost seems as if "power" has become a dirty word among some witches, like it has to be all about connection with something greater. While I do think that connections to a greater source (however you perceive that source or sources) are valid and important, I believe (personally) that a witch also possesses their own internal power and much can be accomplished with it. I find focusing on connection only to be an unbalanced view. At the risk of sounded "deluded", I do believe that I was born with this power, as it was manifesting itself through me and through connections making themselves known to me long before it ever occurred to me to seek to use that power to my advantage. I'm not of the belief that I would lose the abilities that come natural to me if I denied their source and used them for my own ego only. I think they would remain in me and be as strong as they ever were, I just might be more of an asshole than I already am. ;)



I am another that believes that power lies in the witch. Are we not one large biochemical machine? Is it really so arrogant to think that certain peoples machinery stores and use energy better than other's? Is it deluded to think that some peoples' machinery can do things that others can not, especially since we all don't have the same blue prints? Something to think about....

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#40 Abhainn

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Posted 23 October 2011 - 04:21 AM

Would you say that discovering one's personal power might come as part of a process that includes perhaps deities, spirits, ancestors, elements, personal power? For instance, when I first looked into the craft, it was through Wicca, and I relied heavily on my relationships with various deities and the elements for power for spells. I didn't really think I had any personal power. Then I began looking into just the elements, since I'm heavily nature based. Helpful, but in the process, I learned that I had my own power that I could raise and direct (even if I didn't know exactly how to do so effectively, often resulting in some uncomfortable and over-powering experiences before I grounded). Once in a while, I'll refer to my patronesses for added oomph.

Tonight, after reading several posts about how some of you work with ancestors, I started thinking about that avenue as well. It's a little vague for me, because I'm adopted and the family I know about were NOT witchy whatsoever. Since I've been having trouble with my runes, I asked for my ancestors to guide me. I also used as a "field" a school chalk slate that one of my adopted ancestors used with his name etched in the slate. He was from my adopted dad's side of the family. I felt a presence that someone had "stepped forward" so to speak, and the reading was not only simple, but incredibly accurate (where usually my attempts at rune divination have been vague and unsatisfying, like I just couldn't get it). And it was incredibly positive. I thanked my ancestor, and felt a warm sensation against my left ear, like I was getting a hug.

Each of my different experiences with different sources of power highlighted a kind of relationship with the source. With my patronesses, I worked with them in order to discover magic and power, and to explore some areas of spirituality that I hadn't considered before (many of my patronesses are crones). Working with the elemental energies helped me understand the interconnected nature of nature. Learning my personal power (catalyzed by my emotions) helped me focus and learn to direct energies and emotions. And my first real experience with my ancestors (even if I don't know who it was - could have been the one who owned the school slate) helped me with divination. I willingly admit that I'm a total noob at this, and that I have much to learn. All of my sources (even my personal power) teach me as much as they aid my workings.

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