Jump to content


Photo
* * * * * 1 votes

Where Power Comes Fom


  • Please log in to reply
123 replies to this topic

#1 Michele

Michele

    The Exiled Goddess

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 7,033 posts

Posted 19 August 2011 - 02:03 AM

I was reading a thread today and I can't find it now, but basicaly it was saying that power belongs to the witch and no outside help is needed from spirits, ancestors, gods, etc., and I have been thinking about that all night and where power comes from.

I was not born "powerful." Yes, to an extent one own's one's power, but that is not becuase the witch herself is "powerful." Power is through the ability to connect to and tremble the web and from energy (serpent energy, current, etc.) the witch has the knowledge to build up, pull in, and work with. I would definitely say that any god-form, archtypal or otherwise, is more powerful than I am by it's very nature. Why do we use herbs and incenses and candles? Becuase of the powerful energy of the hooded flame, and becuase of the essence of the related plant. Becuase they "lend power" to our working. I have a spark within me that is powerful, but that is becuase it is a divine spark and its interest is not intellectual on my level and it probably couldn't care less about my little spells. My power is completely knowledge-based. It comes to me through knowledge of how to interact with and work with the unseen. Without the web and my connection to it my spells would be wishes.

I think witches may not be any more or less powerful in and of themselves than any other person, but they know how to connect to power/energy and how to manipulate it. That is knowledge. And yes, knowledge is power. But there are things closer to that power - like ancestors, spirits, and god-forms - and to work with such things does increas the power of a working. To say it's all me would personally be deluding myself. I build up energy in myself to use, and to an extent I do own that energy as the serpent runs through all things, but without it, I wouldn't even be in existance, much less be powerful.

M

  • 1

#2 Autumn Moon

Autumn Moon

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2,050 posts

Posted 19 August 2011 - 02:29 AM

I was reading a thread today and I can't find it now, but basicaly it was saying that power belongs to the witch and no outside help is needed from spirits, ancestors, gods, etc., and I have been thinking about that all night and where power comes from.

I was not born "powerful." Yes, to an extent one own's one's power, but that is not becuase the witch herself is "powerful." Power is through the ability to connect to and tremble the web and from energy (serpent energy, current, etc.) the witch has the knowledge to build up, pull in, and work with. I would definitely say that any god-form, archtypal or otherwise, is more powerful than I am by it's very nature. Why do we use herbs and incenses and candles? Becuase of the powerful energy of the hooded flame, and becuase of the essence of the related plant. Becuase they "lend power" to our working. I have a spark within me that is powerful, but that is becuase it is a divine spark and its interest is not intellectual on my level and it probably couldn't care less about my little spells. My power is completely knowledge-based. It comes to me through knowledge of how to interact with and work with the unseen. Without the web and my connection to it my spells would be wishes.

I think witches may not be any more or less powerful in and of themselves than any other person, but they know how to connect to power/energy and how to manipulate it. That is knowledge. And yes, knowledge is power. But there are things closer to that power - like ancestors, spirits, and god-forms - and to work with such things does increas the power of a working. To say it's all me would personally be deluding myself. I build up energy in myself to use, and to an extent I do own that energy as the serpent runs through all things, but without it, I wouldn't even be in existance, much less be powerful.

M


Perhaps the witch himself/herself can be born powerful, but latent, and later brought out through training, practice and refinement. I was actually going to start a thread on this, but you beat me to it. Here is what I was going to say:

Power Source I think that most of the members here agree that it is the 'intent' that programs a working (spell) to its purpose or goal. But im my opinion one also needs a power source to make the spell work. I enliken it to travelling. One has the intent to go, gathers up all that you would need/like, including the car, which is another tool. This is comparable to a working in witchcraft where you have a want/need which directs your intent (go to the beach), you gather what you need for the trip and day, and get into the car, which are comparable to the fundamentals of a working. But without a power source, in this case gas for the car, you are not going anywhere, and in the case of a working...it would not go anywhere without a power source. I am wondering what your thoughts are on this, and what power sources you use. I use fire (candle and flame), items from the land (plants, rocks, trees etc.), sea (water, sea animals), or sky (feathers, air, birds) that coincide with my intent and purpose. I have not worked with spirits (not the drinking kind lol), but I guess that would also be a source of power.

  • 0

#3 8people

8people

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 440 posts

Posted 19 August 2011 - 09:26 AM

With knowledge comes power.

Consider a maze made of dominoes. A lot of people walking around the maze won't see how things are linked and in exerting themselves knock over one or two to get to somewhere they want to be, or knock one and set off a reaction they may not expect, or even want. A witch would look at the maze and topple one domino at a time to create the chain reaction desired, sometimes there are of course secondary streams we miss in initial analyisis, but overall we look at a sequence and connection.

I tend to look at a lot of my workings as working within a spiders' web, possibly as a result of my affinity with such creatures. I have always been taught a spiderweb in a window is lucky and protects the household and use the imagery in many other workings as well. It seems fitting in this conversation as I think the witch has a higher awareness of connections and the web between everything than the average person. They also have the will and means to weave within it.

  • 0

#4 Anara

Anara

    aspire beyond fear of death (Bhairavi)

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,168 posts

Posted 19 August 2011 - 02:04 PM

Great thread!

I tend to agree with the "knowledge is power" sentiment...

The more I know... the more I understand how magic works, the better my spells work.

but, I do believe strongly that we have just as much divine power within ourselves, latent, as what we find outside of ourselves and within the universe & earth itself... I do think everyone is born powerful in their own unique ways, but that training and knowledge makes the world of difference in fine tuning that and bringing it out to effect real change.

Also, regarding spirits, Gods/deities...I have been thinking about this one a lot lately, actually. I feel strongly that there is definitely a divine power way stronger than little old me out there that could knock me on my butt if it wanted to..a power totally separate from myself..its own entity.. But, I struggle with knowing what to call that power though and how to define it. For now, I kinda just refer to it as "my creator". Whether it refers to a "divine source" or a god-head, I don't know and I don't differentiate. I just know its there and I respect it as a power greater than my own. I don't think it does really matter who or what you call it...my thoughts are...a god/goddess called by many names

spirits....well, they exist in the spirit world and are a part of the unseen, so, naturally, they have their own power to lend to boost a working to bring about a desired outcome...

Other than that, as individuals, just like in the mundane world, I think we all have strengths and weaknesses, so too is true in magic, I think. We will all have things we are naturally good at, things we have to work harder at to attain real skill, and some things we just leave well enough alone for whatever reason. Just like with anything else...talent is one thing...but skill is quite another.

Did you ever read Jason Millers "Sorcerer's Secrets: Strategies in Practical Magick" ? I thought in the book he gave a really good break down of his thoughts on why spells work, why they don't sometimes, and where power comes from...and the importance of anchoring spells to manifest change through the use of candles, incense, talismans...ect

~ Ruby

  • 0
"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you will always long to return." ~ Leonardo Da Vinci

#5 CelticGypsy

CelticGypsy

    Crazy NastyAss Honey Badger

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 4,105 posts

Posted 19 August 2011 - 07:50 PM

I'm inclined to believe that the Witch is the Power Source, the Witch initiates the Path, and together they become One as an accelerant, so to speak. We all have pretty much agreed that if the Witch doesn't use the Power/ Intent, that the Witch will loose the Power. ( Use it or Lose it ) Power may lay dormant within the Witch, until that spark of intuition or revelation comes and kindles the desire in the Witch to become. Once the Witch becomes , the Path chosen is initiated by the Witch, and with knowledge and application within the walk of the Path. I also am inclined to believe that the Path takes on a life of it's own, and knowledge comes to the Witch when it is walked upon in trials and experiances. The Path doesn't have a life span, like the human who continually practices it, it's eternal in it's complexities. Think about it, how many times have You influenced another's behavior, or emotions, or the course of events ? Is that not your internal Witch " Power " ? Hell... even " Ordinary People " do that. Embracing your inner Witch Power, and activating it, and walking within the current of the Path you've chose, or for that matter chose You, there should be no limitations as to what a Witch can/will do. Just my thoughts, to this Good Post/ Threads.

Regards,
Gypsy

  • 3

" The last thing you wanted a Witch to do is get bored and start making her own amusements, because Witches sometimes have erratically famous ideas about what was amusing "

 

Terry Pratchett Legends 1 


#6 Brigid

Brigid

    Beyond The Bullshit...........yeah, even yours.......

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,283 posts

Posted 19 August 2011 - 08:09 PM

This is a very interesting thread and topic!! Many interesting ideas and all valuable for contemplation which I do plan on doing!! Thanks M for posting it!!

That being said, before I ponder on it some more, I will say this.

I believe I am one with the universe and one with earth!

When I do any kind of working I call on the two to aid me, his is not to say that I don't belive in my own personal power, because I certainly do!

But!! As I feel I am one with both, there in lies the nned for some serious contemplation on the mater, vey thought provoking for sure!!

  • 0
Ritualistic behaviour, though well-intentioned, possesses no significance or effectiveness unless its external prescription is matched by a personal, internal motivation of will and desire.

#7 o_O

o_O

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 491 posts

Posted 19 August 2011 - 10:20 PM

I've come to the idea that we as individuals are our own power source, and in that our path shows us not truly how to be more powerful, but to make better use of the power we possess. Knowledge and practice lets us get a better understanding of what we have, how to access it in ourselves and make it go a further distance. Things like candles, herbs and such have energies to themselves, as all things do but we take those things in to add it to what we already have, and many times I think these things are more of a key to accessing your power than anything.
  • 0

#8 Brigid

Brigid

    Beyond The Bullshit...........yeah, even yours.......

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,283 posts

Posted 19 August 2011 - 10:35 PM

That is also a very good point O-o!!
  • 0
Ritualistic behaviour, though well-intentioned, possesses no significance or effectiveness unless its external prescription is matched by a personal, internal motivation of will and desire.

#9 CelticGypsy

CelticGypsy

    Crazy NastyAss Honey Badger

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 4,105 posts

Posted 19 August 2011 - 10:39 PM

[quote name='o_O' timestamp='1313792413' post='108517']
I've come to the idea that we as individuals are our own power source, and in that our path shows us not truly how to be more powerful, but to make better use of the power we possess.
Exactly !!! When the Witch becomes, and the path is initiated, not only does it make us evolve, ( accelerate ) the path takes on a life of it's own and perhaps the Witch needs to keep up, keep gleening from it, utilize it, work with it, gaine from it............. again... use it or lose it.


Knowledge and practice lets us get a better understanding of what we have, how to access it in ourselves and make it go a further distance. Yes Yes Yes !!!! The incorporation of knowledge and practice, may give us a better understanding of the process, the procedure if you will, but .............. it's up to the Witch to access that within when he/she "Becomes" to push it to a futher distance.



Things like candles, herbs and such have energies to themselves, as all things do but we take those things in to add it to what we already have, and many times I think these things are more of a key to accessing your power than anything. As the Witch is the Source, and the most important ..................... TOOL ! We have a Peer here, that says " A tool is a tool, when I say it is a tool " I personally took that statement to mean that it was something outside herself, Herself being the main Tool. The rest not to sound blazzay, but are those " mundane " things... candles, herbs.... Yes they are of a nature base... and very important. Candles used from beeswax.... herbs from the Earth... let us not forget... the Elements. Fire, Wind, Earth, Water, Metal.......... and in my opinion ............ Sound.

Regards,
Gypsy

  • 0

" The last thing you wanted a Witch to do is get bored and start making her own amusements, because Witches sometimes have erratically famous ideas about what was amusing "

 

Terry Pratchett Legends 1 


#10 Brigid

Brigid

    Beyond The Bullshit...........yeah, even yours.......

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,283 posts

Posted 19 August 2011 - 10:53 PM

Metel?
  • 0
Ritualistic behaviour, though well-intentioned, possesses no significance or effectiveness unless its external prescription is matched by a personal, internal motivation of will and desire.

#11 Michele

Michele

    The Exiled Goddess

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 7,033 posts

Posted 19 August 2011 - 11:09 PM

[/size][/font]


This reminds me of "awakening the blood"

M

Edit: The quote didn't come out, but it was your reference to "becoming"

  • 0

#12 CelticGypsy

CelticGypsy

    Crazy NastyAss Honey Badger

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 4,105 posts

Posted 19 August 2011 - 11:24 PM

Metel?


Yes Brigid, :yes:

Metals are Elements. Gold, Copper, Iron, Mercury, Gold... ect... just to name a few.

Regards,
Gypsy

  • 0

" The last thing you wanted a Witch to do is get bored and start making her own amusements, because Witches sometimes have erratically famous ideas about what was amusing "

 

Terry Pratchett Legends 1 


#13 CelticGypsy

CelticGypsy

    Crazy NastyAss Honey Badger

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 4,105 posts

Posted 19 August 2011 - 11:27 PM

This reminds me of "awakening the blood"

M

Edit: The quote didn't come out, but it was your reference to "becoming"



Thank you, yes, the only way I can simply put it is : The Witch becomes.

Regards,
Gypsy

  • 0

" The last thing you wanted a Witch to do is get bored and start making her own amusements, because Witches sometimes have erratically famous ideas about what was amusing "

 

Terry Pratchett Legends 1 


#14 Guest_Elfyd_*

Guest_Elfyd_*
  • Guests

Posted 19 August 2011 - 11:47 PM

M - Given that you and I understand the "splinter" scenario of divine spark, we should agree that we inherit this power within us. When we become aware of ourselves as witches we can move on to the channeling of said power.
FFFF
Elf

  • 0

#15 Brigid

Brigid

    Beyond The Bullshit...........yeah, even yours.......

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,283 posts

Posted 20 August 2011 - 12:10 AM

I have never really used metel in a working other then of course cast iron!
But then again, I have used silver(my favorite) while incorporating my pentagram.
Another thing on my list LOL Ty!

  • 0
Ritualistic behaviour, though well-intentioned, possesses no significance or effectiveness unless its external prescription is matched by a personal, internal motivation of will and desire.

#16 Lexi

Lexi

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 165 posts

Posted 20 August 2011 - 12:19 AM

I would first like to say: WOW. This is an excellent thread! Thanks M!

I'm inclined to believe that the Witch is the Power Source, the Witch initiates the Path, and together they become One as an accelerant, so to speak. We all have pretty much agreed that if the Witch doesn't use the Power/ Intent, that the Witch will loose the Power. ( Use it or Lose it ) Power may lay dormant within the Witch, until that spark of intuition or revelation comes and kindles the desire in the Witch to become. Once the Witch becomes , the Path chosen is initiated by the Witch, and with knowledge and application within the walk of the Path. I also am inclined to believe that the Path takes on a life of it's own, and knowledge comes to the Witch when it is walked upon in trials and experiances. The Path doesn't have a life span, like the human who continually practices it, it's eternal in it's complexities. Think about it, how many times have You influenced another's behavior, or emotions, or the course of events ? Is that not your internal Witch " Power " ? Hell... even " Ordinary People " do that. Embracing your inner Witch Power, and activating it, and walking within the current of the Path you've chose, or for that matter chose You, there should be no limitations as to what a Witch can/will do.


This is very much how it has worked out for me. Not coming from a family tradition, it took a lot of 'feeling around in the dark' to get an idea of where to start my path. And then there was that 'spark'; an idea that set the foundation and start of my path. It just came to me one day while contemplating a particular curiosity I had about elements. It's been moving forward ever since. I'm seeing things differently than I have in the past, and certain things are standing out in stark relief. I've had to be really patient at times, but things tend to make sense eventually.

I've come to the idea that we as individuals are our own power source, and in that our path shows us not truly how to be more powerful, but to make better use of the power we possess. Knowledge and practice lets us get a better understanding of what we have, how to access it in ourselves and make it go a further distance. Things like candles, herbs and such have energies to themselves, as all things do but we take those things in to add it to what we already have, and many times I think these things are more of a key to accessing your power than anything.


M - Given that you and I understand the "splinter" scenario of divine spark, we should agree that we inherit this power within us. When we become aware of ourselves as witches we can move on to the channeling of said power.


I also agree with these. It wasn't until doing a lot of research that I realized that I did have a power to work with, and how to wield it in a way that would be useful. I do energy healing, but I didn't realize that that was what I was doing. I just knew that people and animals that were anxious, uneasy or even sick greatly enjoyed my company, and that when I was near people, I somehow knew what was bothering them and how to 'ease' it. Intuitively, and only lightly from study, I could figure out what kitchen ingredients would help, where to apply pressure on the body to ease discomfort, what words to say that would calm a person's disposition, and various other 'healing' techniques. When I started reading about chakras and energy work, that's when I found out what I was able to do, and knowing that helped me to base my path around that.

As o_O said, the tools came later, after I knew what it was I was working with, and what could help me out with those particular skill sets.

  • 0
Lexi [Ilexys Morighannan]

“And above all, watch with glittering eyes the whole world around you because the greatest secrets are always hidden in the most unlikely places. Those who don't believe in magic will never find it.”
- Roald Dahl

#17 CelticGypsy

CelticGypsy

    Crazy NastyAss Honey Badger

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 4,105 posts

Posted 20 August 2011 - 12:21 AM

M - Given that you and I understand the "splinter" scenario of divine spark, we should agree that we inherit this power within us. When we become aware of ourselves as witches we can move on to the channeling of said power.
FFFF
Elf



Sir Elf,

I'm a bit perplexed as your usage of the word " inherit ", would you please elaborate on this for my clarity. Thank you !

Regards,
Gypsy

  • 0

" The last thing you wanted a Witch to do is get bored and start making her own amusements, because Witches sometimes have erratically famous ideas about what was amusing "

 

Terry Pratchett Legends 1 


#18 Jevne

Jevne

    Former Member

  • Former Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 4,441 posts

Posted 20 August 2011 - 12:46 AM

M - Given that you and I understand the "splinter" scenario of divine spark, we should agree that we inherit this power within us. When we become aware of ourselves as witches we can move on to the channeling of said power.
FFFF
Elf


So, power represents the utilization of energy, regardless of the form, regardless of the source? That divine spark that you speak of becomes, in this scenario, the catalyst toward the Connection to unbridled energy, which is accessible only to those who possess some natural tendency and/or overwhelming motivation to seek it out.

J

  • 0

#19 Michele

Michele

    The Exiled Goddess

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 7,033 posts

Posted 20 August 2011 - 12:56 AM

So, power represents the utilization of energy, regardless of the form, regardless of the source? That divine spark that you speak of becomes, in this scenario, the catalyst toward the Connection to unbridled energy, which is accessible only to those who possess some natural tendency and/or overwhelming motivation to seek it out.

J


This may be gettig OT, but I think what E is referring to (and please correct me E if I am wrong) is the belief of some paths of craft that a witch is born and not made, and that the deciding factor is the 'spark" within, the seed, whatever one calls it, also sometimes recognized as the "Mark of Cain." It is akin to recognizing the divinity of the self, but not in an egotistical "screw you all I'm God" type of way, lol. The belief says that some people have this "seed/spark" and some don't and those that don't are the men of clay, and the ones who do have it are the men of fire - the witches. It is being born a witch (although if the blood is not awakened, the witch isn't either). Again, it is a belief some have and I think is what Elf was referring to when he referenced power source.

M

  • 0

#20 Jevne

Jevne

    Former Member

  • Former Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 4,441 posts

Posted 20 August 2011 - 01:10 AM

This may be gettig OT, but I think what E is referring to (and please correct me E if I am wrong) is the belief of some paths of craft that a witch is born and not made, and that the deciding factor is the 'spark" within, the seed, whatever one calls it, also sometimes recognized as the "Mark of Cain." It is akin to recognizing the divinity of the self, but not in an egotistical "screw you all I'm God" type of way, lol. The belief says that some people have this "seed/spark" and some don't and those that don't are the men of clay, and the ones who do have it are the men of fire - the witches. It is being born a witch (although if the blood is not awakened, the witch isn't either). Again, it is a belief some have and I think is what Elf was referring to when he referenced power source.

M


I understood the reference. I was just trying to interpret it in a somewhat politically correct way without inserting too much personal opinion. LOL!

You have a gift for expressing potentially controversial information in such as way as to not provoke. I could not possibly have provided an explanation of the concept of the divine spark without causing an argument.

Thank you for being you and knowing how to share this knowledge for the benefit of all.

  • 0