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traditional witchcraft? or just doing things as you see fit?


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#21 Michele

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 01:45 PM

Do you really think that the spirits recognize boundaries or do you think it's more of a cultural thing?

In the early stages of our planets evolution, the land was one big mass. There are parts of the Appalachian Mts. that run through Morocco and the British Isles. And we still can't say for sure where Native Americans came from.

I think that land spirits adapt to whoever is working with them, if they so choose. Personally, I haven't had any problems as long as I'm not too demanding :).

A few years back I was told by a group of British Witches that I could not possibly practice any form of British Craft because I don't live in Britian. That is one of the biggest reasons why I feel this way.

Brea


Brea,this is something I am still working on, so my opinions may meander and change, but I see the land spirits of old as related to the ancestors. When people lived and died in a village, they WERE the land - their bodies decayed and fed the local flora. Nowadays bodies are resigned to graveyards, and the local flora is fed of the decay of local animals, but the ancestors are "separated" from their families no longer being allowed to be burried in the backyard but kept on "sacred land" (church graveyards - which was a big point with the church for breaking up ancesteral venergation and contact) or graveyard were people have to make a point of going once or twice a year instead of seeing their ancestors every time they went out of the house. As such, as a witch I had to work and makeing a much more contrived way of meeting and connecting with my ancestors. I had to invoke them into the current land I walk on, and give them a focus here. People who left their homeland often took a hearthstone with them which became like a godstone - a house and focus for their line and to some European paths, their gods were, in a sense, their ancestor as well. I find the land spirits here to be welcoming (well some of them, lol) but different from the ones of England. I have made my best connection when I use the natural things from England that I have gathered. Yes, the serpent energy is from the Earth and of the Earth. I think that divinity is also the clothing in which humans have dressed the power of the earth (and possibly beyond) in which to better relate to it. But the ancestors are used to a more local type of working. It is only within the last hundred or so years that people have become world travelers and families can be scattered over miles and contries. This is part of the evolution of craft work, to be able to work a new way of connecting when one no longer stands on the land of their ancestors. But as the serpent energy itself is of the earth, one must work with the serpent on which they stand. Adn the energy of any given place I find is affected by the nature of the area itself and the people living there. Garden-energy-land spirits are much more used to human interaction than wild-forest or evergaldes spirits. I have had to find a way of working that combines my ancestry with the area in which I walk. The native gods of North America are actually Native-American (Indian) gods. And the land was used to that and symbolized as that for thousands of years in American and only recently had these "new" (to this land) gods introduced. Yes, it is just another dressing of the Earth itself, but the land does not work with our idea of time and a few hunderd years is a mere blink of the eye to the land.

I can understand the comment by the person that one cannot work British craft on American soil, but understand a thing and agreeing with it are two different things. The land spirits here are NOT the same. The Earth energy is, the individual tree and land and rock spirits are not. But if I have learned anythign about the craft, it is that it is not a stagnant path, but an ever evolving one. And the mythology of the gods shows me that - Lilith went from a grain goddess to demon, Inanna became Ishtar, The Asier fought the Vanir (sp), and it is important to me to look at these changes and look beneath the dressings of the gods into the reasons for the changes. And the entire reason has been man's changeing point of view. Man's changing of the clothes in which he dresses his gods. But the underlying energy of the gods/energy/Earth has not changed. Neither has my basic ancestry. And for me, if I understand the WHY of these changes, then I can also understand and find ways to evolve my path into one that is still loyal to my ancestors. It is not "traditional" in that I am not on British land working with British local land spirits. But it is a recognizing and respectful working relationship with the land spirits here, and an invoking of the land and ancestral spirits from England. Many witches in England who are traditional and work with local land spirits may tell me there is no way I can practice Eurpoean craft here and to an extent they are correct - I can't practice their local craft here the way they do, but I can still practice the craft of my home here. This is what my ancestors ahve told me, it is what my gods have told me, it is what the spirits of the different woods and flora and rocks I have from England have told me. And I know who I put my belief in :-)

M

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#22 JuniperBaby

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 02:21 PM

This is why in another thread, I said I envy people well rooted in their ethnicity and land who haven't moved around--my choice or force--and don't know what it is like to intimately experience culture hopping. I don't envy any particular culture, even "traditional witches" of any of the multiple definitions. I just envy well rooted people. They have fewer questions and more confidence...and sometimes an air of superiority that hurts me, but that I still would like to have myself to be honest. I'd trade experiences and knowledge, for an increased feeling of safety, certainty and groundedness, in a second.

But I am me. I have lived my life. I'm responsible to move forward with my recovery, my Ways and my life in general. It's just hard because...there seems to be no where that I'm fully allowed to do that, if I follow what I think I'm listening to.

Okay, so even though there is no one definition of "traditional", there is agreement on a few things it is NOT? And one of the big NOTs is being more respectful and grateful TO nature, than what hereditary European witches are? It doesn't matter your blood, or the land you are living on. This is just an unacceptable bend in the road that is not allowed to be explored, and be called "traditional" by any of it's definitions? To bend that far, is taking another path OFF the crooked path?

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#23 Michele

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 03:33 PM

Okay, so even though there is no one definition of "traditional", there is agreement on a few things it is NOT? And one of the big NOTs is being more respectful and grateful TO nature, than what hereditary European witches are? It doesn't matter your blood, or the land you are living on. This is just an unacceptable bend in the road that is not allowed to be explored, and be called "traditional" by any of it's definitions? To bend that far, is taking another path OFF the crooked path?


I am not sure what you are asking re not being more respectful to nature than waht hereditary European witches are...

Re the big NOTS, to me the only NOT is to NOT do something I feel like doing simply becuase someone tells me NOT to do it. If you feel the urge to glue yellow daisys onto wire wings and wear them with pink toe shoes and 1970s spandex whilst listening to meavy metal music and chanting in Hindi then do it. Who knows why you are getting the urge and you'll never know why until you explore the urge. Maybe it will show you what you don't want, maybe it will show you to be uninhibited, maybe it will show you that you like daisys and heavy metal music. Maybe it will just make you laugh. But if it is your urge follow it. Urges often come from input of other sources which I, personally, believe can often come from ancestors (which can be DNA ancestors or not - ancestors can mean of your chosen line, not necessarily of your DNA). Follow YOUR heart - it's yours to follow. Fuck any one who tells you don't simply becuase it's their opinion of what not to do. Try it yourself and make your own decision of whether or not it's something you agree with :-)

M

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#24 Guest_copperhedge_*

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 06:27 PM

I am not sure what you are asking re not being more respectful to nature than waht hereditary European witches are...

Re the big NOTS, to me the only NOT is to NOT do something I feel like doing simply becuase someone tells me NOT to do it. If you feel the urge to glue yellow daisys onto wire wings and wear them with pink toe shoes and 1970s spandex whilst listening to meavy metal music and chanting in Hindi then do it. Who knows why you are getting the urge and you'll never know why until you explore the urge. Maybe it will show you what you don't want, maybe it will show you to be uninhibited, maybe it will show you that you like daisys and heavy metal music. Maybe it will just make you laugh. But if it is your urge follow it. Urges often come from input of other sources which I, personally, believe can often come from ancestors (which can be DNA ancestors or not - ancestors can mean of your chosen line, not necessarily of your DNA). Follow YOUR heart - it's yours to follow. Fuck any one who tells you don't simply becuase it's their opinion of what not to do. Try it yourself and make your own decision of whether or not it's something you agree with :-)

M


Pretty much what she said!!! (but maybe with more swearing) hahaha. There are lots of great answers on this thread and not much more i can add other than; tuning into oneself is often the first step before one can tune into anything else.

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#25 brea

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 01:15 PM

[quote name='Michele' timestamp='1321191909' post='115344']
Brea,this is something I am still working on, so my opinions may meander and change, but I see the land spirits of old as related to the ancestors. When people lived and died in a village, they WERE the land

I'm always working on these things too and I'm always open to change. I understand what you're saying here. My views are a little different right now. Maybe because my family has been here for a long, long time. That's allot of dead people :). I think some probably became part of the Land. Isn't there a term for those that chose to become part of the Land? Is it the Mighty Dead? Anyway, I think that if they become part of the land it would take on their characteristics but underlying that would still be the Land. If that makes sense :).
Yes, it is just another dressing of the Earth itself, but the land does not work with our idea of time and a few hunderd years is a mere blink of the eye to the land.

Agreed. But then, the Craft that they brought over here was very old.

I can understand the comment by the person that one cannot work British craft on American soil, but understand a thing and agreeing with it are two different things. The land spirits here are NOT the same.

I disagree :). Just as time is viewed differently, I think the Land is viewed differently. I don't think boundaries, as we know them, come into play. I think that is part of the reason why you have so many similarities in certain ways between so many different cultures.


Many witches in England who are traditional and work with local land spirits may tell me there is no way I can practice Eurpoean craft here and to an extent they are correct - I can't practice their local craft here the way they do, but I can still practice the craft of my home here. This is what my ancestors ahve told me, it is what my gods have told me, it is what the spirits of the different woods and flora and rocks I have from England have told me. And I know who I put my belief in :-)

I agree with you that I could not practice a village type of Craft anymore than they could practice their Craft here but I think we could both learn to and probably find more similarities than differences.

Brea

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#26 LdyShalott

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Posted 17 November 2011 - 05:32 PM

I believe in other threads that I read that traditional witchcraft--at this forum--is not defined as European only. If a witch has Native American blood and is practicing on American soil, would she be expected to sometimes be feeling and acting on urges, that are thought of as Native American, and still be considered "traditional"?


Well, as a witch, living in America, with an American Indian heritage.. no "princesses" but am listed on the Cherokee tribal registry ( EBCI ) and know my family clan, so guess that makes it so. lol.. My paternal grandmother was Welsh and Irish and a practitioner. Most of my practical knowledge was at her skirt tails. I consider myself a traditional "witch" , (why the quotes, well that's another thread) What is that tradition? It has flavors of and similarities to Appalachian Hoodoo, a lot of my tribal heritage, and many facets of the influence of other ancestors. But, it also goes beyond the limitations of all these labeled traditions. I have grown as a person and a crafter. I practice my own tradition, unique to my needs. knowledge, genius loci. Do I have a foundation in my heritage, of course, but as someone else posted, times have evolved, changed and we now have more knowledge at our disposal. This allows for a widening pool of information to pull from and deepen my path. There is the fear of watered down eclectic mixes and many purists sneer at such, which I understand. But, the more I learn, the more I see the similarities of so many paths.. the differences are minute compared to the greater core essentials.

I must say I find it amusing when people become so exclusive and haughty. No one practices the same tradition, whether it is the witch across the street or on the other side of the planet. We are all unique individuals and as our paths should reflect I mean if you are walking and practicing a cookie cutter path, then are you really practicing or just another sheep? In my eyes, it is good to be proud of our lineage and heritage but to be so blinded as to close ourselves off to the resonating influence of others is self defeating.

" If you feel the urge to glue yellow daisys onto wire wings and wear them with pink toe shoes and 1970s spandex whilst listening to meavy metal music and chanting in Hindi then do it quote Michelle"


Wow M, How did you know about the secret Cherokee daisy rites.. lmao

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#27 Aloe

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Posted 17 November 2011 - 05:40 PM

Well, as a witch, living in America, with an American Indian heritage.. no "princesses" but am listed on the Cherokee tribal registry ( EBCI ) and know my family clan, so guess that makes it so. lol.. My paternal grandmother was Welsh and Irish and a practitioner. Most of my practical knowledge was at her skirt tails. I consider myself a traditional "witch" , (why the quotes, well that's another thread) What is that tradition? It has flavors of and similarities to Appalachian Hoodoo, a lot of my tribal heritage, and many facets of the influence of other ancestors. But, it also goes beyond the limitations of all these labeled traditions. I have grown as a person and a crafter. I practice my own tradition, unique to my needs. knowledge, genius loci. Do I have a foundation in my heritage, of course, but as someone else posted, times have evolved, changed and we now have more knowledge at our disposal. This allows for a widening pool of information to pull from and deepen my path. There is the fear of watered down eclectic mixes and many purists sneer at such, which I understand. But, the more I learn, the more I see the similarities of so many paths.. the differences are minute compared to the greater core essentials.

I must say I find it amusing when people become so exclusive and haughty. No one practices the same tradition, whether it is the witch across the street or on the other side of the planet. We are all unique individuals and as our paths should reflect I mean if you are walking and practicing a cookie cutter path, then are you really practicing or just another sheep? In my eyes, it is good to be proud of our lineage and heritage but to be so blinded as to close ourselves off to the resonating influence of others is self defeating.

" If you feel the urge to glue yellow daisys onto wire wings and wear them with pink toe shoes and 1970s spandex whilst listening to meavy metal music and chanting in Hindi then do it quote Michelle"


Wow M, How did you know about the secret Cherokee daisy rites.. lmao


:cheerleader: Yes! This, exactly. Excellently worded Ldy.

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"The people who live in the Ozark country of Missouri and Arkansas were, until very recently, the most deliberately unprogressive people in the United States. Descended from pioneers who came West from the Southern Appalachians at the beginning of the nineteenth century, they made little contact with the outer world for more than a hundred years. They seem like foreigners to the average urban American, but nearly all of them come of British stock, and many families have lived in America since colonial days. Their material heirlooms are few, but like all isolated illiterates they have clung to the old songs and obsolete sayings and outworn customs of their ancestors." Ozark Magic and Folklore

#28 Brigid

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Posted 17 November 2011 - 06:19 PM

Well, as a witch, living in America, with an American Indian heritage.. no "princesses" but am listed on the Cherokee tribal registry ( EBCI ) and know my family clan, so guess that makes it so. lol.. My paternal grandmother was Welsh and Irish and a practitioner. Most of my practical knowledge was at her skirt tails. I consider myself a traditional "witch" , (why the quotes, well that's another thread) What is that tradition? It has flavors of and similarities to Appalachian Hoodoo, a lot of my tribal heritage, and many facets of the influence of other ancestors. But, it also goes beyond the limitations of all these labeled traditions. I have grown as a person and a crafter. I practice my own tradition, unique to my needs. knowledge, genius loci. Do I have a foundation in my heritage, of course, but as someone else posted, times have evolved, changed and we now have more knowledge at our disposal. This allows for a widening pool of information to pull from and deepen my path. There is the fear of watered down eclectic mixes and many purists sneer at such, which I understand. But, the more I learn, the more I see the similarities of so many paths.. the differences are minute compared to the greater core essentials.

I must say I find it amusing when people become so exclusive and haughty. No one practices the same tradition, whether it is the witch across the street or on the other side of the planet. We are all unique individuals and as our paths should reflect I mean if you are walking and practicing a cookie cutter path, then are you really practicing or just another sheep? In my eyes, it is good to be proud of our lineage and heritage but to be so blinded as to close ourselves off to the resonating influence of others is self defeating.

" If you feel the urge to glue yellow daisys onto wire wings and wear them with pink toe shoes and 1970s spandex whilst listening to meavy metal music and chanting in Hindi then do it quote Michelle"


Wow M, How did you know about the secret Cherokee daisy rites.. lmao


I completely agree!! Although I have no American Indian blood flowing in my veins I am an American, my Mother born and raised in Ireland and my Father is of Welsh decent. I have ancestors that were born and died on both sides of the pond and contacting and working with the ones from abroad is just as easy as those from this land. After all their spirits/souls aren't buried with their bodies waiting to be raised up with the second coming they are within the ether!

As for land spirits I do try to work with the locals :)

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#29 CelticGypsy

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Posted 17 November 2011 - 06:41 PM

Interesting Post and Threads. I've learned through this post, that the majority here have an affinity and great respect for the land and nature, that doesn't scream politics or ethics. It is what it is when it comes to the Witch loving the Earth and all that the Earth provides. I can see for myself that my path is Nature based, I love the dirt, trees, rocks, flora.....ect. The affinity is based on a relationship, so common that it doesn't need to be analyzed. It's just there, and never taken for granted, like breathing. My personal path, it's foundation or roots are Nature based, what I build upon that is my personal endeavor to keep keener with my path, but having a firm platform to build on is my key to personal growth. If it is needed to use the wisdom of the phases of the moon, I use it, if it is needed to incorporate a wee bit of Hoodoo, I use it, if it is clearer to incorporate and Element, so be it. There are no hard fast rules, unless the Witch condones or sanctions them.
Purposeful steps, always. Responding to the path, instead of reacting to it. That is the beauty of the spontaneity of it, one moves instictive with it, it is a place to be where one is acting on internal impulses without an external cause. Open, natural, uninhibited. Just my opinion on it.

On a side note : Not all Ancestors are buried in the earth.

For example since we were using the Native American, some were put near the sky. Posted Image As their tradition held it to do so.

Regards,
Gypsy

Edited by CelticGypsy, 30 January 2013 - 11:56 PM.

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#30 Jevne

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 12:06 AM

I am not sure what you are asking re not being more respectful to nature than waht hereditary European witches are...

Re the big NOTS, to me the only NOT is to NOT do something I feel like doing simply becuase someone tells me NOT to do it. If you feel the urge to glue yellow daisys onto wire wings and wear them with pink toe shoes and 1970s spandex whilst listening to meavy metal music and chanting in Hindi then do it. Who knows why you are getting the urge and you'll never know why until you explore the urge. Maybe it will show you what you don't want, maybe it will show you to be uninhibited, maybe it will show you that you like daisys and heavy metal music. Maybe it will just make you laugh. But if it is your urge follow it. Urges often come from input of other sources which I, personally, believe can often come from ancestors (which can be DNA ancestors or not - ancestors can mean of your chosen line, not necessarily of your DNA). Follow YOUR heart - it's yours to follow. Fuck any one who tells you don't simply becuase it's their opinion of what not to do. Try it yourself and make your own decision of whether or not it's something you agree with :-)

M


Came upon this tidbit and found it interesting in light of some recent conversations I have had with peers.

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#31 Guest_atropa_*

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 03:00 PM

I would call this freedom; freedom of thought, speech and action, these are fundamental foundations of the ways of Witch.
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#32 CelticGypsy

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 09:20 PM

I would call this freedom; freedom of thought, speech and action, these are fundamental foundations of the ways of Witch.


Hello Atropa,

Would you clarify what you mean by your statement ? Are you of this thought process regarding the entire Post with Threads ? When I look at your phrase satement in it's simplicity, I can surmize that these "fundamental foundation freedoms" you speak of, if one removed the Witch from the statement, are just basic Human freedoms, practiced every day in any walk of life for just your basic Homo Sapien. Can you offer some clarity, please. Thank you.

Regards,
Gypsy

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" The last thing you wanted a Witch to do is get bored and start making her own amusements, because Witches sometimes have erratically famous ideas about what was amusing "

 

Terry Pratchett Legends 1 


#33 Guest_atropa_*

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 10:37 AM

Hello CelticGypsy

I was answering the piece of writing by Michele that Jevne picked up on; sorry CelticGypsy I should have clarified this.

It is a basic human right to have freedom of thought, speech and action, but as far as I can see it rarely exists. There are many cultures of the world that attempt to restrict all of these and most cultures restrict speech and action.

I know here in Britain restrictions on what is and isn’t acceptable or allowed are tightening all the time. What has been a fundamental right in this country; freedom of speech, is still part of our legislation, but in fact it is severely restricted.

Freedom has never really been a part of the ways of mankind, the only place this can be found in any way working is in one or two of the tribal areas of the very remote places of the world; as soon as ‘educated’ mankind enters into the equation freedom is very slowly removed. And I use the word ‘educated’ to reflect what mankind themselves think they are, in fact I would say that remote tribal communities are far more educated.

It can also be found in one or two Witch Traditions; when freedom of thought, speech and action are a foundation and are practised it provides a fertile ground for Witch to grow in their own particular way.

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#34 Michele

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 04:35 PM

I wonder if sometimes as a witch it is harder... most people live within the rules of their society. So that society dictates their actions and reactions. So as a witch, yes, I have to define my actions and reactions by the cultural norm as I am and want to remain a functioning member of society, but ultimately I have to base my ethics and actions on my ancestor's memories and my path. Some things that society writes-off and easily forgives, would not be forgiven by my ancestors. Similarly, some things my ancestors would have found acceptable the current culture wouldn't. I suppose ultimately it's a balance...

M

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#35 Jevne

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 02:53 AM

I wonder if sometimes as a witch it is harder... most people live within the rules of their society. So that society dictates their actions and reactions. So as a witch, yes, I have to define my actions and reactions by the cultural norm as I am and want to remain a functioning member of society, but ultimately I have to base my ethics and actions on my ancestor's memories and my path. Some things that society writes-off and easily forgives, would not be forgiven by my ancestors. Similarly, some things my ancestors would have found acceptable the current culture wouldn't. I suppose ultimately it's a balance...

M


While I am a social scientist, I am not a sociologist, meaning I don't really think in terms of entire societies. I am intriqued, however, by the impact that social culture, from national to familial, has on individuals and their behaviors. We are all a product of our genetics and our environments, so our unique perspectives, even within specific cultures and traditions, influence how we react to questions such as was presented by the OP.

My reaction likely conveyed my annoyance (yeah, it oozes out occasionally), because the original question(s) implied extreme duality of thought and action. Like assuming that if you follow a specific Tradition, you couldn't possible do whatever you want. That is so unrealistic, that it is almost laughable. I am extremely loyal to those I call Kin, but absolutely no one tells me what to do. While I choose to participate and interact within certain social structure(s), home, work, forum, etc., I am still my own person, capable of and free to decide my own lot in life.

When I read your post, Michele, I tried to think of a scenario in which I faced a true conflict between honoring my ancestors and meeting personal or cultural expectations, but can't really think of any specific situation right off hand. Sometimes, it is a balancing act, but if I take each situation and evaluate it on its own merit, I generally don't have issue. I guess to me, maintaining that balance is only as hard as one chooses to make it.

Of course, many of my ancestors were drunken sluts and other equally questionable characters, so I am at a slight advantage :P

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#36 brea

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 12:37 PM

What about a conflict between what you want to do or feel you should be doing and what your Tradition says you should do? What if your Tradition dictates that you should glue yellow daisies on wire wings and wear them with pink toe shoes and spandex while listening to heavy metal music(cracks me up!) but you don't want to do that. What happens now? Do you go against what your Trad dictates or break out the spandex?
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#37 Michele

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 01:55 PM

While I am a social scientist, I am not a sociologist, meaning I don't really think in terms of entire societies. I am intriqued, however, by the impact that social culture, from national to familial, has on individuals and their behaviors. We are all a product of our genetics and our environments, so our unique perspectives, even within specific cultures and traditions, influence how we react to questions such as was presented by the OP.

My reaction likely conveyed my annoyance (yeah, it oozes out occasionally), because the original question(s) implied extreme duality of thought and action. Like assuming that if you follow a specific Tradition, you couldn't possible do whatever you want. That is so unrealistic, that it is almost laughable. I am extremely loyal to those I call Kin, but absolutely no one tells me what to do. While I choose to participate and interact within certain social structure(s), home, work, forum, etc., I am still my own person, capable of and free to decide my own lot in life.

When I read your post, Michele, I tried to think of a scenario in which I faced a true conflict between honoring my ancestors and meeting personal or cultural expectations, but can't really think of any specific situation right off hand. Sometimes, it is a balancing act, but if I take each situation and evaluate it on its own merit, I generally don't have issue. I guess to me, maintaining that balance is only as hard as one chooses to make it.

Of course, many of my ancestors were drunken sluts and other equally questionable characters, so I am at a slight advantage :tongue:


Lol - you know, I had to go back and read the opening post, lol lol.

When my son's home was robbed, I was faced with a decision where my society disagreed with my ancestral reaction. This society says call the police and let them handle it. My ancestors would have done much more than making someone return the objects. My ancestor's/tradition would have done something to the hands (like removing them or melting them together) so that the thief could no longer use them to rob. To do that would have been very against the laws of this current society. So then I faced a problem - go by the laws of society or by the laws of my ancestors. Also remembering, that my ancestors were a very strong and tough people, living and dying by the land. To not do something would also have been honourless, being a doormat. Then I also had to answer to myself - I'm not a big curser, and I would totally barf at the thought of melting someone's hands. So I had three differing "influences" and which would I answer to - the two most important being my ancestors (to whom I will return) and myself (who has to live with the knowledge of my actions). To hunt this person down and retaliate would have been me breaking the laws of society and risking jail, and violence is not in my nature anyway, lol, so a mundane reaction was ruled out. That left magical response that would both restore honour, balanced the situation, and not go outside of my personal gross-factor and ethical factor. And believe me, my gross-factor/ethical factor is more in-line with society as I do not live in the culture of my ancestors and am generally a very docile person - but honour had to be restored (or rather would have been lost had I done nothing) . So I had to come up with a magical compromise that made my ancestor's memories happy, was within my personal ethics (me being a product of this culture), and was appropriate to the balancing of the situation.

Re breaking " tradition" and the OP - I think that it depends on how tried-and-true one's tradition is. Magical, yes -especially as one moves from place to place and the lay of the land and the plant growth differs new alliances/uses might be forged and found, but old alliances and customs (to me) should never ignored or forgotten. And I am assuming that things are traditional for a reason - because they have proved themselves to be a truth time and again to the people. In a spiritual tradition, no... to change the tradition is what has happened all through history, where one deity was "morphed" into another deity as one religion took over another, and that's what happened in Wicca where all gods became one god. Doesn't work like that (at least, not in my tradition).

M

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#38 Jevne

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 10:51 PM

What about a conflict between what you want to do or feel you should be doing and what your Tradition says you should do? What if your Tradition dictates that you should glue yellow daisies on wire wings and wear them with pink toe shoes and spandex while listening to heavy metal music(cracks me up!) but you don't want to do that. What happens now? Do you go against what your Trad dictates or break out the spandex?


LOL!!! Well . . . if I don't want to, I don't. Of course, that isn't going to keep folks from voicing their opinions or offering suggestions, but ultimately, I bear the responsibility of the consequences of my actions. I am not speaking for anyone else, though, as other Paths may well be more dictatorial (sp?). I am not sure I could live and/or work within a Tradition with a cultish-type control over its members. I mean, I am not a child.

If I told any of the people that I know that I was going to cast a spell, while wearing pink toe shoes and spandex, they would likely be supportive and ready with their cameras, so I would never be able to forget it . . . ever.

Nice to see you around, Brea.

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#39 BirdieMcCloud

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 11:46 PM

When I read your post, Michele, I tried to think of a scenario in which I faced a true conflict between honoring my ancestors and meeting personal or cultural expectations, but can't really think of any specific situation right off hand.


I've had that happen. In working with my ancestors, I definitely had problems being taken seriously as a member of my Mom's family. It was important to ME to make contact with my ancestors - especially my grandma, who I miss dearly - but my older ancestors took severe offense to the fact that 1)my mother had married someone they considered highly unacceptable, and 2) I was a female. Cultural expectations had my mom married 'properly' alone would dictate that I marry someone, have some babies, and maybe one of my sons would be lucky enough to cross to the Other Side. :/

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#40 Michele

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 01:50 AM

What about a conflict between what you want to do or feel you should be doing and what your Tradition says you should do? What if your Tradition dictates that you should glue yellow daisies on wire wings and wear them with pink toe shoes and spandex while listening to heavy metal music(cracks me up!) but you don't want to do that. What happens now? Do you go against what your Trad dictates or break out the spandex?


If the tradition couldn't explain why, in a logical understandable way... then I wouldn't work within that tradition, lol. If I question why, I expect an answer. And if the answer is wishy-washy or "because I said so" then that's a red flag.

M

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