Tori Amos

[RavenFlyer]

So I have been a huge fan of Tori since the 90s. There is so much that can be said abuot her and her music being an oasis in the dry monotnous music scene. However, I erally want to discuss her as a witch. Now she has never said she practices witchcraft, but just by some of her quotes, lyrics, and personal vibe I think it is pretty clear. She may not call herself a witch, but her practices are very much traditional.

 

When she first started she had a bad 80's hair album that flopped, and was about to be dropped from her labeled. So, according to her first autobiography, she wen tout and collected pieces of nature and formed a circle and sit in it. She then composed a large number of songs while sitting there for days. WHen she went to the piano to construct the melodies she brought the nature with her. One of her friends commented that Tori was doing "her fairy shit" again.

 

Later in her career she went to see a native south american shaman woman and drank ayahuaska(sp?). She had a vision of Lucifer and mating with him. This joining helped fuel part of her album and she wrote a song about it called Father Lucifer.

 

Tori Amos

"...the most influential journeys I have had have been with ayahuasca, the vine from the Amazon, the combination of that and mushrooms. It's very much a medicine woman, medicine man's journey drug, where you go inside. It's not a social thing. It's an internal experience. I experiment with things that are usually an internal experience, because that's just what excites me. And yes, it does sometimes give me visions. But my intention when I am doing it is very different than recreational. I don't do it recreationally. I do it to go do inner work, and I'm very clear before I do it what I'm searching for. That way, there's no abuse suffered and I don't rely on it. It's just one more tool that I use sometimes."

 

father Lucifer video

 

She also has talked about a native american spirit guide who first appeared after one of her miscarriages.

 

 

iieee song

 

then there are mentions of conjuration in some of her songs. In the song Suede she talks about "anybody knows you can conjure anything by the dark fo the moon"

 

 

suede

 

she is also very talkative about her connection with the Magdalene.

[RavenFlyer]

oh yes how could I forget this song:

 

 

 

[Guest MissTree]

I haven't been a Tori Amos fan. Listened to her first album at the time it came out and wasn't impressed. Didn't pay too much attention to her after that.

 

I didn't expect to like these songs, but they're pretty good! I may need to revise my opinion of her music. :-)

 

 

 

 

 

(Edited to take some of the I's out.)

[LadyShalott]

Big fan of Tori Amos... :chakrahearts:

[Oakbuchanan]

Thanks Raven, I never knew this about her..Just found this live version of Her performing Father Lucifer... I think Im in love.. :loveeyes:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvzBb1QnB8c

[LadyShalott]

I think Im in love.. :loveeyes:

 

 

She is uniquely beautiful!

 

 

 

[Figment]

I really love Tori Amos, especially her older stuff. I do have some of her newer music, but it doesn't speak to me as much as her music from the 90's.

[RavenFlyer]

If you get the chance to read her book Tori Amos: all these years or the other one Piece by Piece you should check them out. Great reads into her personality.

 

Also there is an amazing song called Hey Jupiter that she wrote after being on tour and having a spirit of an old man sitting on the end of her bed and talking to her.

 

She is part Cherokee and her grand father brought her up with a lot of their wisdom and beliefs as well.

[Gloogal]

I've bought her music since I first heard Cornflake Girl in the 90's-I agree her music was a breath of fresh air at the time and I still listen to those early few albums regularly.

I've seen her live a few times too- never seen anyone make piano playing an erotic experience-she is hot.

I liked her lyrics, I could relate to them and I liked her sense of humour too-she may well be a witch, I don't mind either way.

[PixiewithSticks]

I was a huge fan of Tori Amos when I was younger but I never knew about her spirituality. I will definitely check out that biography :)

I do see a lot of witchy stuff in her songs but I never really thought about it I guess. For me the appeal of her was more as a feminist, alternative version of reality and as a kind of version of feminine strength.

 

Hmm... I might have to go find some of her albums now.

[RavenFlyer]

here is a bit of excerpt from her book Piece By Piece where she discusses her journey with Lucifer:

 

Excerpted from Piece by Piece by Tori Amos

 

During [boys for] Pele I really started to explore the Dark Prince archetype. It’s one that a lot of men have been able to explore, from Jim Morrison on down to Trent Reznor, and I felt it was calling me. With my religious upbringing I felt I really needed to discover that. It was different from the Magdalene essence. I’d been studying her for a long time, and she was a muse. But I needed to access the Dark Prince in myself, instead of pulling in men who had access to it. But that was yet to come.

 

I was courting demon lovers at the time, but I didn’t know who the real Demon Lover was. I knew I needed to initiate myself. So I went to Hawaii by myself and began that quest. I worked with a woman, a shaman, who was reputed to know how to take you on a spiritual journey by uncovering things you were avoiding in your view of yourself. While I was in Hawaii, locals were talking about the goddess Pele in a way that I had heard of, but so distantly; it wasn’t something that was in my framework like the greek goddesses or the Norse or the Celts. Eventually I began to see, not a malevolence, but–through Pele, Kali, and Sekhmet, a few of the dark goddesses–I was really beginning to discover anger. I didn’t know how to contain it yet.

 

So an apprenticeship began. This woman had done a lot of work with medicine men in South America and Central America, and because she was of the Feminine I felt comfortable with her. We spent a lot of time diving into archetypes. I began to have a relationship with the Dark Prince; I allowed his archetype to seed in me.

 

hen I use the term, the Dark Prince, this is my definition of a male essence that is able to shed light in darkness. Darkness, in this context, is referring to that which is hidden. Access to the Dark Goddesses and the Dark Prince had been strictly forbidden as a “daughter of the Christian Church.” The idea formed in me that somehow Satan would be there waiting, exposing any of us young women–sort of like the Gestapo–to when I began to think, with strange humor, that Satan secretly worked as an undercover agent for the authoritative side of the Christian Church. I could almost feel the hidden cameras on me, sort of like a Christian moral majority Big Brother, watching when I or any other woman would pick up controversial works by people such as Carl Jung. Works that began to dissect the unconscious. The shadow. The darkness. Thereby making archetypes accessible and tangible. Archetypes as a Forethought and an Afterthought, heralding us as imprisoned Christian women to break the Apostolic chains that were like anchors on our clitoris.

 

So when I use the term Prince of Darkness I see his essence more in cahoots with a doctor of the unconscious–Dr. Carl Jung. Satanic, however, is something I started to find very much ingrained in our day-to-day world. Now, obviously, when I say that, clearly there are different levels of satanic–the horrific acts that we hear about, whether on TV or through personal experiences. In a more subtle way I found it more sinister in a “business as usual” manner. The key for me here was the idea of hypocrisy, the definition of which I take from Collins English Dictionary: “the practice of professing standards, beliefs, etc., contrary to one’s real character or actual behavior.” I found this subtle form of the satanic in the form of friendships. I found it among the crew. I found it within people with whom I worked in the music business. I found it within myself. The hell-shattering moment was when I realized that satanic hypocrisy was not out there somewhere, out there with the terrorists in the world… but that hell was in the inner circle. But so was heaven. The teacher tried to ingrain this in me: “You cannot control the fates, but you can control how you as Tori are going to respond to them.”

 

Ayahuasca is the root from the Amazon that tribal people would take in ceremony. It’s an eighteen-hour journey, and it invades the psyche. You’re aware, you’re awake, but everything you store in the unconscious starts to get unleashed. It’s very parable-oriented; things are in parables, and you have to be able to read them.

 

It can burn you up in some ways if you’re not ready to look at certain parts of your subconscious, and, especially if you view your life as a situation in which everybody else has done everything to you, it’s not going to be a good journey for you. You will start to see how ou’ve also been manipulative. Nobody is blameless. If you take this substance, you will see that there’s not a “Get Out of Jail Free” card; there’s nobody you can call. You’re on that trip and no shot can bring you out. And I’ve been with people on the journey; in groups I’ve done it… there was one girl who was trying to bite her own arm off. Because you can go that far down. You want to devour yourself because of what you’ve been up to. It’s always a shock to see your own reflection.

 

I fasted and prepared myself for ceremony, and I knew that I was on my knees. I was at a place where I couldn’t extort somebody else’s essence and energy like an emotional vampire. There had been people who wanted to have power over me in some way, or be voyeurs of my life. I had to stop blaming them and realize that I really wanted to merge with this essence. But we’re back to the idea of merging the sacred and the profane.

 

A lot of people around me at that time were turned on by cheap come-ons, drawn to thinking that thet Dark Prince was somebody who would handcuff you and give you the orgasm of your life. Well, he doesn’t need to handcuff you. It’s boring. Go handcuff ourself. I’m not talking about Satan, either; people have projections on Satan, as we’ve talked about, and I have my own, too.

 

The revelation to me was, I was at that place on my path where, instead of the darkness being outside, it was inside. I needed to acknowledge what it could do. I would always say, Well, everything will work out in the end. But if you’re not able to acknowledge that some people are fundamentally greedy, you will be suprised that, when push comes to shove, even people that you care about may not choose the moral code. I needed to see that there were people, including myself, who could have good traits and traits that would enslave another person. So I went into ceremony and met the Dark Prince.

 

When I went on this trip I had a sexual/spiritual experience with a creature named Lucifer. The word Lucifer is from Latin, meaning “light-bearer,” also defined as the planet Venus in its appearance as the morning star. The other Being I had an experience with was called Davide. He seemed like a blond angel figure. Light and dark. So to me they represented Dionysus and Apollo–that’s the best way to put it. In my Being I was merging, and I remember him saying to me, “The seed is being planted, a really important seed. You will be pregnant, but with yourself, with a part of yourself. You need to give birth to a part of yourself that has been cut out.” Circumsized, I think was their word. A part of my soul had been circumsized. And they really made love to my woman in a way that I had never, ever–I mean, you want to talk about being loved out of my own purgatory…

 

They said to me that I had to find the male within myself who is this demon lover. He has to love my woman. So I asked the Dark Prince, “What are you made up of?” He said, “You have to stop chasing baby demons. A lot of people think darkness is making somebody emotionally defecate on themselves. That’s baby demon stuff.” He said, “Let’s get to a place where you can call these guys teachers, and I say that with a small t. But the lessons can be huge. These baby demons can be wonderful in some ways. Wonderful in some ways, highly conscious in some ways, but until they’ve done their work on their shadow, they are more concerned with the power of seduction and the control over another Being than anything else.” He said, “The baby demons are obvious because there’s nothing that they’re hiding. They’re not even trying to hide. They don’t even dance with profanity, they don’t respect profanity’s power over them; therefore, they drown in it, unknowingly. Pulling down with them everyone who is attached to them. And in the end, honestly, women are there solely so that these baby demons can put another female scalp on their belt.” “Ouch,” I said as I crossed my legs. “You asked,” is what I heard back.

 

He said, “The tricky thing is when you have people who really do good things for humanity and to free the soul, but then in other ways will hook you. And you feel that it’s a betrayal because you didn’t think that this was possible in them. And until you’ve really, really done the work on yourself and you’re able to catch yourself, when you’re fishing for heart bait, this will keep happening.” I began slowly to see how I would come across people who do wonderful acts for humanity, whether they were involved in making music or in social causes that were great for the world, but then would come home and shame their girlfriend.

 

Boys for Pele ended up being about those people, and that spirit in my-self. We all have teh capacity to act in a way that could invade another being. And until you’re willing to see this in yourself, you think that you’re above it. Pele was about not being above that. Before then, I could not see how I was a part of that, because I was on the victims’ team. I had to look as how members of Victims Anonymous could wear badges on their sleeves and hold everybody hostage to their victimization. So it’s coming to understand that essence, really. And it’s in songs like “Blood Roses” and “Professional Widow.”

 

I did have to listen to the Dark Prince when he said, “Stop playing with the baby demons. Baby demons are men in training on their path who will defecate on women in any way.” If you’re drawn to that, as I was during that time, you need to look at what in our own male aspect is fucking your women up the ass with her head smashed into the pillow. That’s stuff to make you throw up. And you have to take responsability. I wanted baby demons because I desired what they could access. But once it got down to it and I would be in a room alone with one of them, I would kind of go, “Do I really desire this guy?” And my inner chick would say, “He’s a turnoff; I mean, his hands smell like onions–and he’s not an Italian chef.” These were guys who became friends but first drew me in because I found in them something I needed to see in myself.

 

That’s what the Dark Prince told me. “You need to spend time. Your male needs to spend time with your woman, take her shopping.” I did that. I spent a little bit of time before I got into another heavy relationship, which was mark after that.

[RavenFlyer]

here is a collection of quotes about the song Hey Jupiter where she discusses a dead Englishman sitting on her bed and singing her parts of this song. Also she mentions taht she was in a love triangle and wasn't sure if the people she was involved with were actually alive or ever had been.

 

linkage!

 

here is the video

 

Hey Jupiter

[Oakbuchanan]

Thanks Raven, really enjoyed reading that.. the excerpt above, fits very well as a post in the forum, I think she should join TW if she hasn't already incognito.. Cause she would fit right in..

[Michele]

Okay - I actually waited the whole 18 minutes it took for my 3G internet to download the video, lol. She is a beautiful girl with a beautiful voice (and great hair,lol). The bit from her book I enjoyed reading although I found it heavy due to the whole women-as-victim thing and I very much agree with her findings that so many women embrace that in themselves. I have often found in "wounded women" that as much as they proclaim to hate the victim role (and they really do hate it) they wrap it around themselves as a giant cocoon and safety blanket and immerse themselves in it to protect themselves from having to face their own lives becuase as long as they are in it, they are not responsible for themseves, they are always the victim and there will always be good guys who try and rescue them yet end up hurting them thereby validating their own feelings of hatred, and that is something that just annoys the shit out of me. That isn't in any way to impugn (sp) what some women (or men) have had to face, but it is about getting ONE'S SELF out of that place and taking a personal responsibility for one's own life and a huge part of that is being strong enough to face one's own anger, and take charge over it - to not let anger and the fear of that anger rule your life, but to rule your own life as a fully integrated individual. So many people are so scared of their own potential strength that they stay in a role they hate. And yes I do understand that some aboused people may not be able to physically walk away from that abuse due to age or iinfirmity or what-have-you, but there is also a big mental aspect to that abuse.

 

M

[RavenFlyer]

Okay - I actually waited the whole 18 minutes it took for my 3G internet to download the video, lol. She is a beautiful girl with a beautiful voice (and great hair,lol). The bit from her book I enjoyed reading although I found it heavy due to the whole women-as-victim thing and I very much agree with her findings that so many women embrace that in themselves. I have often found in "wounded women" that as much as they proclaim to hate the victim role (and they really do hate it) they wrap it around themselves as a giant cocoon and safety blanket and immerse themselves in it to protect themselves from having to face their own lives becuase as long as they are in it, they are not responsible for themseves, they are always the victim and there will always be good guys who try and rescue them yet end up hurting them thereby validating their own feelings of hatred, and that is something that just annoys the shit out of me. That isn't in any way to impugn (sp) what some women (or men) have had to face, but it is about getting ONE'S SELF out of that place and taking a personal responsibility for one's own life and a huge part of that is being strong enough to face one's own anger, and take charge over it - to not let anger and the fear of that anger rule your life, but to rule your own life as a fully integrated individual. So many people are so scared of their own potential strength that they stay in a role they hate. And yes I do understand that some aboused people may not be able to physically walk away from that abuse due to age or iinfirmity or what-have-you, but there is also a big mental aspect to that abuse.

 

M

 

 

Well I think that what you say is true of a lot of people in the victim mentality. However, from my knowledge (And of course I do not know her personally) of Tori is that she has used a lot of the journeys and the workings with the "dark prince" to heal herself. She was a victim of some pretty bad things. She helped found RAINN (Rape, Abuse, Incest national network). SO at teh time 1996 that boys for Pele (the CD) came out she had really started working through it. I think now were she to discuss her self in situations that she was remembering back to 96 about then she would see it differently. Because at least to me, I haven't really ever thought of Tori as the "wounded woman" who uses it to show independence but at the same time curl up with it to feel safe.

but culturally at least here in the south U.S. women are still brought up with the mindset that their duty is to be married and have kids. That if they want to go to college its fine, but once they get married they should do the housewife thing. And not only that but if their boyfriend or husband wants sex the girl should just give it up. Yet virginity is still seen as a virtue. So it comes down to the do to please a man, but don't get caught unless you have a ring on yoru finger. and Tori's mother and her mother's parents were Cherokee from NC,a nd her father's parents were from Galax VA and they were really christian crazy strict. So obviously I think she grew up wounded and having to fight to find her true essence which meant as she put it, "giving birth to herself" to that dark energy that she had but was pushed (circumcised) away. as well as dealing with the anger that she had. I think she has moved from wounded to healed, but like all of us has a long journey still.

[Guest Magdalena]

Nice thread. I like Cornflake Girl by Tori.

[Michele]

but culturally at least here in the south U.S. women are still brought up with the mindset that their duty is to be married and have kids. That if they want to go to college its fine, but once they get married they should do the housewife thing.

 

That is so true.. I have married-couple friends and they were both career people and both made equal income (in some cases the woman made more) yet when the woman got pregnant and there was a baby it was never even considered that the man should take a day off work when the baby was ill or needed to go to a check up or anything. This was always without question "the woamn's place." When my granddaughter was born my son stayed home with her for the first few months and cared for her. Granted it was a wise decision simply becuase the mum made more money than he did, but I have always admired them both for the open-mindedness of that decision even when frinds would tease and call him "mister mom." And there is no denying the special bound he has with his daughter which I think is lovely and very much a product of that time they had together. (And getting way OT here... soryy guys.)

 

M

[PixiewithSticks]

That is so true.. I have married-couple friends and they were both career people and both made equal income (in some cases the woman made more) yet when the woman got pregnant and there was a baby it was never even considered that the man should take a day off work when the baby was ill or needed to go to a check up or anything. This was always without question "the woamn's place." When my granddaughter was born my son stayed home with her for the first few months and cared for her. Granted it was a wise decision simply becuase the mum made more money than he did, but I have always admired them both for the open-mindedness of that decision even when frinds would tease and call him "mister mom." And there is no denying the special bound he has with his daughter which I think is lovely and very much a product of that time they had together. (And getting way OT here... soryy guys.)

 

M

 

I don't really think that's on off topic matter of discussion in light of the whole of Tori's work. While I would really love to find out more about her spirituality and her methods of self healing; I think the majority of her work really speaks to self-birthing and gender identity. Which for women seems to involve more anxiety than men, traditionally at least.

 

But I also think there is something wounding about certain forms of oppressive religion and the way it can really hurt the person who is brought up that way. I think my husband's fundamentalist Christian upbringing has hurt him very badly and is the at the root of the problems he and "we" as a couple face. Because his family had this really unhealthy balance of power in this patriarchal male world and that is his "normal" - but not because he believes that or wants that but because he doesn't have another model. Then the problem becomes he is too afraid to face that past and admit that he might be hurt. (You would not believe the anger he has over not celebrating Christmas and not having Santa Claus visit as a kid - which only surfaced after he learned both of his parents grew up with Christmas and Santa.) For me being brought up in not a fundamentalist or even really overtly Christian home, Tori's music and spiritual journeying outside the norm had a huge impact on who I have become. I know I would be a different person without having had those experiences.

Also I will note I'm still young, and Tori was defiantly one of my "role models" growing up so that is why I am so interested in what she has to say I guess. I wonder just how much the media we consume does influence who we become. Since I spent four years of my life studying literature and repeating the mantra "money isn't important, art is..." I would say our media does have a huge influence on us when we are young especially. Not that I'm saying performers or artists should act in a certain way to be proper role models or whatever - but if you're making art you are creating something powerful.

 

Thank you for the exert and the quote :)

 

 

 

[Michele]

I would say our media does have a huge influence on us when we are young especially. Not that I'm saying performers or artists should act in a certain way to be proper role models or whatever - but if you're making art you are creating something powerful.

 

I know what you mean, but I do think that people in the media have a responsibility to be decent role models - just as much as an EMT passing by a car crash has a larger obligation to stop and help than does the basic office worker passing by. It is a well known fact that teenagers and kids look up to athletic stars and TV stars and the like and I personally think that these stars should realize it and take a little responsibility in how their actions impact these kids. There used to be some rap video with some fellow singing away with a (very sleazy) girl on each arm about how he got lucky twice in one night at the club. Kids grow up to think that's what cool is - do any of the kids realize that in real life that man may well be paying out child support on two kids he's never met and dying of aids? There was another song that had the line "rough sex, maket it hurt, rip your pants and rip your shirt..." And my then 12 year old son and his buddy were singing along at top voice in the back of the car. I had to slam on the brakes and pull over and point out that if the girl wasn't into BDSM - and not all are - that they wouldn't get a second date if that was their response to her affections. The media has us living in a world where the only perfect women look like barbie-dolls with necks the same size as their waists and boobs that would topple them over forward if they really had to stand up on their own. The Crone is dehumanized and devalued, fathers and husbands have become disposable and are only a 5 minute "baby daddy" and then the government steps in and gives you food stamps and free healthcare and a wopping tax return simply becuase you were too dense to use a condom. And TV and music stars support this image and the kids are lapping it up to the detriment of family values and the economy. (Rant over, lol.)

 

M

[PixiewithSticks]

I know what you mean, but I do think that people in the media have a responsibility to be decent role models - just as much as an EMT passing by a car crash has a larger obligation to stop and help than does the basic office worker passing by. It is a well known fact that teenagers and kids look up to athletic stars and TV stars and the like and I personally think that these stars should realize it and take a little responsibility in how their actions impact these kids. There used to be some rap video with some fellow singing away with a (very sleazy) girl on each arm about how he got lucky twice in one night at the club. Kids grow up to think that's what cool is - do any of the kids realize that in real life that man may well be paying out child support on two kids he's never met and dying of aids? There was another song that had the line "rough sex, maket it hurt, rip your pants and rip your shirt..." And my then 12 year old son and his buddy were singing along at top voice in the back of the car. I had to slam on the brakes and pull over and point out that if the girl wasn't into BDSM - and not all are - that they wouldn't get a second date if that was their response to her affections. The media has us living in a world where the only perfect women look like barbie-dolls with necks the same size as their waists and boobs that would topple them over forward if they really had to stand up on their own. The Crone is dehumanized and devalued, fathers and husbands have become disposable and are only a 5 minute "baby daddy" and then the government steps in and gives you food stamps and free healthcare and a wopping tax return simply becuase you were too dense to use a condom. And TV and music stars support this image and the kids are lapping it up to the detriment of family values and the economy. (Rant over, lol.)

 

M

 

True to go more OT: there was a rap song my friend and I were complaining about a few years ago. Basically it was a guy talking about he was going to "bust it wide open." Every time it came on we would complain to the guys: why can't you be nice? Why would you say that to a woman or about women? Misogyny and violence aside - which I don't think should be okay no matter who you are the "be a good role model" standard is usually unfairly applied to young female performers. It puts unnecessary pressure on them and the media seems to basically live to tear them down. I would never want to imply I think that's okay or that 15, 16, 17, or 18 year old young women Disney markets to preteens should think of themselves as role models. If Hannah Montana is my 9 year old niece's role model, since I care about her I should give her better ones; not blame Hannah Montana (or whatever her real name is).

[RavenFlyer]

Bumping this thread due to my recent re-adventures into Tori's Music.

and I found someone uploaded some videos of Tori explaining some of her songs:

 

this is iieee (a song about a little native american spirit who came to her after a miscarriage)

 

This is a little bit about her newest album. I do not have it so I can not give my opinion of this album. However, it seems she is continuing with her metaphysics in music:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/mpd/permalink/m1AD9K0ISNC6AE/ref=ent_fb_link

 

This song is Muhammed, My Friend and Tori seems to be exploring more of the gnostic relationship between man and god, as well as examining how man has turned so many natural behaviors into a "sin". The opening lines seem to reflect on a relationship between Mary Magdalene and Jesus:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKefFmJwz9U