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Do you believe in Karma?


Wytchywoman

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When I think of Karma the word "axiom" comes to my mind. It seems that Karma is automatically accepted as truth, or a fact by many circles of people. But I have found in my travels, others that challenge it. I for one, after examining the origins of the word, and considering my own beliefs, have come to realize that Karma itself is useless to me, and has no hold or bearings on me. I respect that this is a belief that others may feel passionate about, and I would never be one to argue with them on it, but I certainly am a skeptic on it. Any thoughts from believers in Karma and non believers of it alike?

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Guest Elfyd

I still have reason to believe that Karma can and does work to some degree. This cuts against the grain of TWers for sure but by my own experience i have witnessed many incidents in my life and those close to be to say that statistically seems to offer the %s of positive results.

FFFF

Elf

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I like to think of myself as Karma, in the aspect of if you do something I have an issue with and cast on you, then you could blame it on karma as far as your actions go. As far as karma goes towards me, the answer is no. I take responsibility for everything I do and have reason for everything I do, so if something back fires on me, that's just cause and effect and I set in the motions of something negative towards myself.

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In a sense... I do think that what you put out there, comes back to you. But context is important. It's hard for me to explain, because I don't buy into the whole harm none idea. But, my personal opinion is, if you're constantly doing things against others who don't deserve it, it is going to come back and bite you in the butt. I also think positive acts come back to you also... for example, someone who is friendly to others is going to be more likely to get that attitude in return... where as someone who is sour is generally going to get unfriendly responses. You bring someone a plate of cookies, they're more likely to do something nice in return.

 

But if someone means me harm... damn right I'm going to take action.

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I dont believe in karma in the way that hindus believe in it. I don't think that if you rack up too many negative things in your life that you will return as a dung beetle or something. I believe that the universe has to balance. If I send send out too much negitivity, then it will return. Same with positive energy. But both can be good or bad. LIke for example if I send out a whole bunch of positive energy when what I really need a break down in my life of things that I have outgrown, then positve energy returns and makes my situation worse by reinforcing something that is past its expiration date. Also, on the flip side, if I'm constantly sending out negative energy, and it returns to break down my life and create change, but what I really need is to breathe life in to my current situation, it can create havoc and disharmony and therefore, make my life miserable. Obviously, it can work in the reverse too. Negative sent=negative returned and it does have negative effect on things because it is not what I need at the moment as well as positve sent =postive returned and it has a postive affect on things because that is what I need at the moment. Its confusing but what it boils down to is that I follow my heart. My intuition will tells me if its a bad idea or not.

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In a sense... I do think that what you put out there, comes back to you. But context is important. It's hard for me to explain, because I don't buy into the whole harm none idea. But, my personal opinion is, if you're constantly doing things against others who don't deserve it, it is going to come back and bite you in the butt. I also think positive acts come back to you also... for example, someone who is friendly to others is going to be more likely to get that attitude in return... where as someone who is sour is generally going to get unfriendly responses. You bring someone a plate of cookies, they're more likely to do something nice in return.

These are all things I would chalk up to cause and effect. It is sensible, even provable, that as a result of behavior, you are more than likely going to reap quite a bit of positive or negative behavior in return. Or if you play with a bees nest, good golly, you are bound to get stung. I have witnessed cause and effect or consequences to actions I'd say at least a billion times in my life.

 

But I'll clarify what I mean by Karma. Karma was founded in Hinduism. In their religion they believe that whatever good or bad you do in this life is some how remembers from some divine one, who will then use what you did in this life to decide the fate of your next life. A more modern or altered idea of Karma is that what you do, negative or positive, some universal law will see to it that you are some how reprimanded. For instance. Some one robs an old lady's home blind.....the thief never gets caught, some might say that some way some how, some karmic law out there will make him pay for robbing the lady's home. (This I do not believe is a matter of fact.) Same scenario, man robs elderly woman's house blind...diligent police work causes his capture and long term in prison, but for his bad actions, he would not be in prison. (This I do believe in, it's cause to his effect.)

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Guest Magdalena

When someone does something negative to another person and that other person thinks " I won't take retribution because Karma will soon go and bite the cretin on the ass", their subconscious thoughts are already willing payback, and that alone will manifest retribution toward the person that has wronged the other. The subconscious thoughts are always working and manifesting. Even though those thoughts are not as loud in our head as our conscious thoughts, they are more powerful than our conscious thoughts. (IMHO).

 

Also, if one is feeling guilty about something one has done, then that will play in their subconscious, so the affect will bring about an effect in their life.

 

I have no belief in the Hinduism perception of the word but that does not mean I am saying it is not so, because I don't know.

 

Anita.

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The problem with western/modern Karma is that the term karma has been adopted because it sounds nicer than what they really want to say.

 

Retribution.

 

Karma, as a whole, *is* an inescapable truth. Karma is action, it is justification and balance - It is an earthquake that balances out building pressure of techtonic plates, it is 'purpose' it is not "do good and get good back" it is "fulfill your purpose to move on further" - especially when applied to the concept of reincarnation. So I believe in Karma in the aspect of the natural cycle that the planet follows to keep itself maintained and in check (even if certain little ants on its back like to throw spanners in the works!)

 

Retribution I believe in wholly - if I be a dick unto others I won't expect a birthday card.

 

If I fall over and stub my toe that's not a balance for something mean I did, that's just an excuse people use to feel good about someone elses suffering

"See? The UNIVERSE agrees with me" *smug look*

 

There is a fine line between Retribution and Revenge and I serve both concepts quite gladly as a witch ;)

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We have discussed this before, many times, in various threads. Search the forums for the word "Karma", and you'll get a better idea of what others (past and present) think of this subject.

 

J

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Honestly I could not say one way or the other although I do think that the point about the word usage is a valid one. We live in a society where we are "supposed" to be forgiving and accepting, therefore it is apparently not acceptable to want revenge, redemption, your head on a plate lol. Instead we use KARMA which is slightly ore sugar coated.

 

The biggest problem with karma is that a good deed to one person can become a bad deed to another. For instance, my friend asks me if he can borrow £20 since he has not been paid on time and he needs the money for electricity and one or two essentials. I say yes wishing to do him a good deed. He then spends £6 on electricity and a pint of milk and blows the other £14 in the pub before staggering home to his wife. They have a row. He might have been thanking me for my apparent good deed, but she sure as hell isn't (that did happen to me once by the way). My point being how do we measure the good and the bad in things?

 

In the example of the old lady. I do hope you don't mind my playing devils advocate here, but old ladies by their sheer nature were once upon a time young women. Who's to say that your sweet old lady was not once living off her ill gotten gains and bringing misery to the masses. While we are all focused on the mean burglar who should get his ass kicked for robbing an old woman it is easy to forget that it may be her who is needing the swift kick. Not that I condone the robbing of old ladies, but I hope that you will agree that it makes for another viewpoint on the whole karma debate.

 

Whether it be karma, god, universal energy or whatever, what comes around does indeed tend to go back around. But by thesame token it is fare near impossible to only do good or only do bad either.

 

Always an interesting topic though

 

Georgia xx

 

 

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In the example of the old lady. I do hope you don't mind my playing devils advocate here, but old ladies by their sheer nature were once upon a time young women. Who's to say that your sweet old lady was not once living off her ill gotten gains and bringing misery to the masses. While we are all focused on the mean burglar who should get his ass kicked for robbing an old woman it is easy to forget that it may be her who is needing the swift kick. Not that I condone the robbing of old ladies, but I hope that you will agree that it makes for another viewpoint on the whole karma debate.

Okay then...the elderly woman in the example never had a mean bone in her body her entire life, whether she was young or old. Never stole from anyone, was always generous and first to help everyone. These kind of people can and do still have bad things happen to them, and there certainly doesn't seem to be some kind of karma god watching over them ready to kick the evil doer in the butt on their behalf.
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No i don't believe in Karma. If there was such a thing, the Witch would look it in the Eye, Laugh at it, Head butt it and Knee it in the Bollocks on it's way down. If there was any life left in it after that intro, the Witch would just Spit on it.

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We have discussed this before, many times, in various threads. Search the forums for the word "Karma", and you'll get a better idea of what others (past and present) think of this subject.

 

J

 

Well said J, again the phrase "seek and you will find comes to mind"

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The biggest problem with karma is that a good deed to one person can become a bad deed to another. For instance, my friend asks me if he can borrow £20 since he has not been paid on time and he needs the money for electricity and one or two essentials. I say yes wishing to do him a good deed. He then spends £6 on electricity and a pint of milk and blows the other £14 in the pub before staggering home to his wife. They have a row. He might have been thanking me for my apparent good deed, but she sure as hell isn't (that did happen to me once by the way). My point being how do we measure the good and the bad in things?

 

Always an interesting topic though

 

Georgia xx

 

I think that is an excellent example of the "threads" and how no one and no thing exists in a vacuum. Hesitating on your way out the door in the morning to sneeze can change your life and you don't even know it. That 10 second hesitation could put you in the path of a wayward car on the expressway, or put you next to a person in the checkout line at the grocery store who you end up marrying instead of being 2 people behind him and never getting into a conversation. The problem with karma is that the word often evokes the feeling or meaning "punishment" and has a rather instant and exact quality to it. I robbed you so someone is now gonna be mean to me. That to me is a gross over-simplication. The Eastern idea of Karma I see more as the witches' idea of the strands or threads of "fate' or " destiny" or "wyrd" (just another culture's interpretation of it) and reaping what one sows happens over lifetimes and is a woven pattern, not a mere and simple tit-for-tat. Just look at some of the "bad guys" from differnet mythologies - look at Judas; if the xtians were into karma they'd say he's in for a really bad one, yet without him xtianity wouldn't exist. Look at Golum (okay, I know he's not mythology but I happen to love Lord of the Rings, lol) he was a "bad guy" yet he was the only one who could do what all the "good guys" couldn't. And he didn't even do it by conscious choice, more by error. The pattern woven is extremely intricate, and I don't think the witch looks at the pattern and beats the shit out of it and kicks it in the balls on the way down. If a witch COULD kill the woven pattern she'd be basically killing herself for the pattern is a weaving of our lives and lifetimes. What the witch can do is discren the woven pattern, and move some of the threads thereby changing the weaving.

 

M

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Guest Magdalena

Thank you, Magdalena. Unfortunately, I am not as kind as you are. I was going to make folks look for themselves.

:D

 

Lol. I was reading through them last night Jevne, that is why I could have sworn there were three other threads, but I kept nodding off so could be mistaken. Anyway, as no one had posted them since your post and I knew where they were I thought I would share, I did use search though and they were pretty easy to find, so I feel the newbies that don't bother with the search function should make more of an effort. ;)

 

Here is another thread I came across along the same lines also.

 

http://www.tradition...h__1#entry43504

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Guest Elfyd

Hats off to Michele! Yours is the best analogy in this arena, the very mention of wyrd trumps all avenues of personal perception, after all we are the ones who actively influence the sisters' work. I still stand by my comments that karma(for want of a better word) has a cause and effect based on repetition of events and see no reason why it should not given the complexities of the web ever spinning.

I have voted M's post up of course.

FFFF

Elf

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I did use search though and they were pretty easy to find, so I feel the newbies that don't bother with the search function should make more of an effort. ;)

 

Here is another thread I came across along the same lines also.

 

http://www.tradition...h__1#entry43504

I am very sorry that during an imperfect moment in my life, I had the nerve to create another "Karma" thread. Ya know, sometimes working 40+ hours a week, combined with abnormal amounts of personal stress might do that to ya, and *gasps* you might forget to use search every once in a while. Normally I do, but like most people, I'm not perfect, so sometimes I might slip up. I will say my intentions were good, I did not intend to anger or annoy other people over this. But maybe....perhaps....there is a much better way of handling us lowly newbies that might make such a abominable mistake this like, than to sit there amongst selves carrying on snarky conversations right in front of us, that may serve to make us feel unwelcome or uncomfortable about posting anymore. Private messaging works quite well I hear.
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'Michele,

 

I have to agree with EFFYD on this. Your analogy was excellent, insightful, and quite a bit of food for thought on this. :sunny:

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Guest Magdalena

I am very sorry that during an imperfect moment in my life, I had the nerve to create another "Karma" thread. Ya know, sometimes working 40+ hours a week, combined with abnormal amounts of personal stress might do that to ya, and *gasps* you might forget to use search every once in a while. Normally I do, but like most people, I'm not perfect, so sometimes I might slip up. I will say my intentions were good, I did not intend to anger or annoy other people over this. But maybe....perhaps....there is a much better way of handling us lowly newbies that might make such a abominable mistake this like, than to sit there amongst selves carrying on snarky conversations right in front of us, that may serve to make us feel unwelcome or uncomfortable about posting anymore. Private messaging works quite well I hear.

 

 

Take it as you will Wytchywoman. I spoke of newbies not advanced members. It happens often in here, new members start threads that there are already multiple threads of. Why would I pm you about it when I am speaking in general and not pointing at any single person.

 

If you have time to start many new topics, then why would you not have time to use the search function? It is quick and easy. You did not anger or annoy me and neither does your sarcasm.

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Take it as you will Wytchywoman. I spoke of newbies not advanced members. It happens often in here, new members start threads that there are already multiple threads of.

I understand that. It happens everywhere, this place is nothing unusual.

 

Why would I pm you about it when I am speaking in general and not pointing at any single person.
Well gee, maybe because it has to do with the fact that I was the one that committed this dastardly infraction (not general people) and the way people decided to handle it was get all uptight about it in this thread, and be snarky about me in front of me.

 

If you have time to start many new topics, then why would you not have time to use the search function? It is quick and easy.
Many new topics?? Seriously? Once again I did NOT claim to NOT have time, I claimed that I slipped up, made a mistake, as in imperfect, f---d up, and I am sorry that I did f-- up by committing the infraction of creating yet another "Karma" post. I'm imperfect like that. But if this is so unforgivable and people would rather sit around making snarky remarks (It wasn't just you btw) in front of me (perhaps a form of entertainment) I'm afraid you'll have to knock yourselves out by yourselves. I want no further part in that. Have fun with it.
You did not anger or annoy me and neither does your sarcasm.

And yet you responded to it. And gee, when one sees sarcastic rude back and forth about them in front of them like that it's by golly bound to cause some kind of negative effect, including sarcasm. Cause and effect. Have a great day and thank you for your understanding and forgiveness. :D
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Guest Magdalena

And yet you responded to it.

 

My reply was for clarification, nothing more, nothing less.

 

P.S. I was very careful how I worded this "so I feel the newbies that don't bother with the search function should make more of an effort" as not to single any one person out.

 

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Guest Elfyd

I understand that. It happens everywhere, this place is nothing unusual.

 

Well gee, maybe because it has to do with the fact that I was the one that committed this dastardly infraction (not general people) and the way people decided to handle it was get all uptight about it in this thread, and be snarky about me in front of me.

 

Many new topics?? Seriously? Once again I did NOT claim to NOT have time, I claimed that I slipped up, made a mistake, as in imperfect, f---d up, and I am sorry that I did f-- up by committing the infraction of creating yet another "Karma" post. I'm imperfect like that. But if this is so unforgivable and people would rather sit around making snarky remarks (It wasn't just you btw) in front of me (perhaps a form of entertainment) I'm afraid you'll have to knock yourselves out by yourselves. I want no further part in that. Have fun with it.

And yet you responded to it. And gee, when one sees sarcastic rude back and forth about them in front of them like that it's by golly bound to cause some kind of negative effect, including sarcasm. Cause and effect. Have a great day and thank you for your understanding and forgiveness. :D

 

 

************************************

 

Witchwoman,

 

Lump me in with you and the others who transgress some minor custom. I have not used the search function, I am a luddite and have enough trouble navigating this or any other site on the web. As such I have not fallen victim to any singular finger-pointing over trivial site protocols. Perhaps this means more to some?

 

FFFF

Elf

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Witchwoman,

 

Lump me in with you and the others who transgress some minor custom.

What is a little comical is the threads that I am in big trouble over not searching for were from 2008, and 2009. Its not as if they have been made continuously biweekly, like you see at some forums where eventually you say enough is enough. (Even then I guess I am more laid back than to bitch about it, or set aside special time just to contribute a snip about it. It happens, it's petty, oh well.) Some sites do not like you to resurrect threads that old, and prefer you to create new ones for fresher faces and fresh ideas to engage in. I guess I will have to make a mental note that such acts don't go well around here. :ban:

 

 

I have not used the search function, I am a luddite and have enough trouble navigating this or any other site on the web. As such I have not fallen victim to any singular finger-pointing over trivial site protocols. Perhaps this means more to some?

 

FFFF

Elf

lol I don't know I think it's just that I'm the type that people like make an example out of me. ;)
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