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TradCraft and Covens


Crystal

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I have only ever found or expierienced Covens within the Wiccan way. I'm wondering if anyone has ever found (and felt like they needed) a Coven of the non Wiccan variety? The reason I ask is that I have been solitary all of my path, but I strongly believe energies channeled from a group of people are much greater. (BTW, I don't use tools, I'm a no frills kind of witch. Well, I may light a candle for atmosphere because that will change my mood, emotions and there-by channel energy more effectively, ect).

I think a good example, and common one, is that of the Chrisitan Congregation. When you have a huge church of people feeling something so strongly and channeling thier energies, you can physically FEEL it, it's tangible, regardless of your religion or way of life. They would call it filling the place with the holy spirit. (I call it the Craft, I think everyone has it, they just don't know how to use it...yet.) :)

I'm a healer, both herbally and spiritually, and I would just love at times to channel more than just my energies (aside from those natural energies around me) into something. (A healing soup, a calming spell ect, who knows!!) I'd also just like to be able to occasionally lament over a full moon with someone who felt it on a deeper level too. And I celebrate the solstices and equinoxes because I think it keeps me intune with nature, so it would be neat to celebrate those with someone every once in a while. (Currently, I have quiet reflections, which is very fitting for Samhain, but I'd like something more uplifting and fun in the spirit of Beltane.)

Have you found Coven's common? (Traditions and practices are probably so different per person..)

 

Anyhoo, I'm new here. So, so, so glad to have found you all. :)

 

Crystal

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Guest Elfyd

Crystal,

As the majority of the members are solitary (I assume) the responses you will get may not be what you ask for. I do know of some here though that have experienced cuveen times, it is not for everyone and I personally have net seriously considered this. There is much to be gleaned form cuveen working, but it is a serious thing to entertain because of the complexities and personalities involved.

I hope you receive some informative responses to this to help you in your process.

FFFF

Elf

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Most covens I've seen have been wiccan. There are a couple of 'multi-path' covens but most have a definite leaning towards one means or another.

 

I have personally found covens to be rather unwelcoming, to the point of rudeness, because of preconcieved notions the group mentality has about what a witch is and isn't in mind and body. Your best bet would probably be to find like minded individuals you can convene with (maybe even apprentice?), I'm guessing from your parameters an eCoven is out of the question for you?

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I have only ever found or expierienced Covens within the Wiccan way. I'm wondering if anyone has ever found (and felt like they needed) a Coven of the non Wiccan variety? The reason I ask is that I have been solitary all of my path, but I strongly believe energies channeled from a group of people are much greater. (BTW, I don't use tools, I'm a no frills kind of witch. Well, I may light a candle for atmosphere because that will change my mood, emotions and there-by channel energy more effectively, ect).

I think a good example, and common one, is that of the Chrisitan Congregation. When you have a huge church of people feeling something so strongly and channeling thier energies, you can physically FEEL it, it's tangible, regardless of your religion or way of life. They would call it filling the place with the holy spirit. (I call it the Craft, I think everyone has it, they just don't know how to use it...yet.) :)

I'm a healer, both herbally and spiritually, and I would just love at times to channel more than just my energies (aside from those natural energies around me) into something. (A healing soup, a calming spell ect, who knows!!) I'd also just like to be able to occasionally lament over a full moon with someone who felt it on a deeper level too. And I celebrate the solstices and equinoxes because I think it keeps me intune with nature, so it would be neat to celebrate those with someone every once in a while. (Currently, I have quiet reflections, which is very fitting for Samhain, but I'd like something more uplifting and fun in the spirit of Beltane.)

Have you found Coven's common? (Traditions and practices are probably so different per person..)

 

Anyhoo, I'm new here. So, so, so glad to have found you all. :)

 

Crystal

 

I know what you mean, while I am solitary as much out of choice as anything else, it would be nice sometimes to have a group to work with, however trad covens are few and far between and usually intensely private.

 

When it comes to celebrating the solstices though, it might be worth seeing if there is anything happening in your area. I went to a Beltaine celebration in town and while it had a heavy Wicca influence, it was still a really enjoyable experience. Having said that, I am lucky to live in a town where the solstices are as celebrated as Christian festivals. Depending on where you live you may be able to find something similar, it might not be exactly on your path but it gives you the opportunity to celebrate with people who are roughly similar.

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I was invitied to a coven last year, although they told me the coven was basically a mixture of Neo-Pagan witches and traditional witches. So it wasn't strictly trad. I'm more of a solitary so I declined the invitation. I have a feeling a trad coven might be quite strict as to who they let in, just like the trad forums I have come across. But they do exist!

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About 3 years ago I did a search for a trad coven to train with as I wanted what I considered real training. I did come across one based on Thracian magic practices that was definitely not wiccan! I ended up not exploring with them because I have this rebellious strek in me that wants to do things my own way. It would be nice to come across people I can converse with, share a coffee and maybe do some working withs but not yet. I very much want to learn first, once I am ready, the people will walk into my life, I have no doubt about it. Just put the energy out there to attract the right people, then sit back and let the magic do it's thing.

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Personally, I just don't want the headaches and hassles of dealing with all the egos and personalities one has to deal with in a coven. I was thinking seriously of joining one several years ago, but the hoops and hurdles they wanted to make me jump through was ridiculous. I thought they looked foolish and certainly 'un-witch' like. I get all the input and perspectives I need from sites like this one.....I read and experiment and do what feels right in my gut. I don't need a coven with sticky rules, hierarchies and such getting in the way. I just don't have time. Hope that helps show you my experience, for what it's worth.

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Guest Elfyd

Crystal,

 

I hope that the general theme of responses gives you an idea of the mind-set of the (B)TW majority. I agree with the quorum and would suggest that you concentrate on yourself and your own journey. With the help you can get from people here, who's experience can be so valuable, you can then make an informed decision as to where to go from there. It is true that (B)TW cuveens can and usually are a quiet and tight bunch, there is an iron-clad code of ethics and fellowship and it is very hard to get to a situation where a neophyte will be offered the rare chance to join. the tradition is strong but sub rosa.

As I have stated before, It all starts from within and this applies to all of us.

 

FFFF

Elf

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OKay.. (do I really want to answer this and open up that can of worms, lol). I have recently contacted a coven and started working with them. I can not say at this point if I will join with them or not, but to me it feels wonderful to be working with others and I really like and mesh well with them. Also, if one actually JOINS a coven (i.e. is initiated into one) one becomes part of the egregore (sp) of the coven, which is the tutilory (sp) spirit of the coven. A coven is, in that way, different from an initiation from other realms. One can't (IMHO) self initiate becuase it would be a dedication to whatever one is dedicating one's self to. A true initiation from other realms is more of a passing on of power or sight and can only come from other realms, not from the self or from a coven - those things are merely mundane door-knockings. The witch may (depending on the coven or path) have her own spirits or divinities she works with outside of the coven structure and SHOULD be encouraged and expected to work on her own outside of coven life. One should have personal interactions with other realms, as well as coven interactions within that path. A coven that frowns upon this is one I would walk away from very quickly.

 

That said, I am very much a social person and I enjoy being who I am with others and working with others and joining a coven has been something I have been wanting to do for some time now and I am glad that it seems to be falling into place. Other than that I will not write more of them on the internet becuase I feel that would be impolite and inappropriate as they have a right to their privacy, lol.

 

M

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Coming from a family of magical inclined folks and practitioners, I wanted to point out the difference between family traditions and coven traditions. To my personal way of thinking a coven, formed from like-minded people who have no relation to each other except that which they create is very, very different from belonging to a family. I suppose in some ways, a fresh, off-the-street coven would be easier, because if you didn't like something that the group was doing you could always just walk away. I don't have that luxury, because I'm related by blood to my "coven". This is also the great part . . . I can't just walk away from them, or they from me. In other words, the bond is stronger and deeper than one could ever hope to achieve by covens without that connection. I think that true bond is what is lacking in many covens. When you have a level of connection that extends beyond just hooking up once in a blue solstice, posturing and egos really do not factor into it. I can just tell my family members to shut up, if they are getting too big for their britches. No one is going to kick me out of the family.

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Crystal, it seems that there is quite a bit of wonderful insight and advice concerning this for you to consider. From what I gather there can be some pros, as well as cons but the most important thing is what feels best for you personally.

 

I don't know if anything else can be added except maybe, if you feel you definitely should be in a coven, choose very very wisely and selectively.

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Jevne,do you think that is what modern witches are looking for, the family bond through covens?

 

I know the question was not directed to me, but I have to say that in my opinion it is as unanswerable as "what is the average person looking for in a relationship?" Some "average people" may be looking for financial security, some for fidelity, some for love, some for a free ride, some for children, some for a father-figure, some are simply bored... etc. I don't think that what any one is looking for can be summed up as what the whole is looking for. I don't mean that in a rude way, it is just that "modern witches" is a large generalization, lol...

 

Also, (and someone correct me if I am wrong here becuase obviously I am not in a heriditary family, lol) most covens are Path-based whereas I would assume many heriditary families are more working-based (again, please correct me if I am wrong) unless they happen to follow a particular path-based tradition. As a general rule coven-work does facilitate relationships, but it does not replace one's family nor is it meant to. If one is joining a coven to find a replacement for family ties, one is joining for the wrong reasons, IMHO. Covens are joined to work a specific path which is why most covens state their path up front whether it be Streg, eclectic-trad, eclectic wicca, Faery, CoTC, CS, nameless path, or what-have-you.

 

M

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I live in a very remote area, in the Bible Belt no less and there are few people that I can work or even talk with about my path... so in that aspect I find a coven attractive. I would like the social side and the interaction. But as someone mentioned, I would want one that encouraged workings outside the coven, one that acknowledged the unique differences of its members.

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I know the question was not directed to me, but I have to say that in my opinion it is as unanswerable as "what is the average person looking for in a relationship?" Some "average people" may be looking for financial security, some for fidelity, some for love, some for a free ride, some for children, some for a father-figure, some are simply bored... etc. I don't think that what any one is looking for can be summed up as what the whole is looking for. I don't mean that in a rude way, it is just that "modern witches" is a large generalization, lol...

 

Also, (and someone correct me if I am wrong here becuase obviously I am not in a heriditary family, lol) most covens are Path-based whereas I would assume many heriditary families are more working-based (again, please correct me if I am wrong) unless they happen to follow a particular path-based tradition. As a general rule coven-work does facilitate relationships, but it does not replace one's family nor is it meant to. If one is joining a coven to find a replacement for family ties, one is joining for the wrong reasons, IMHO. Covens are joined to work a specific path which is why most covens state their path up front whether it be Streg, eclectic-trad, eclectic wicca, Faery, CoTC, CS, nameless path, or what-have-you.

 

M

 

Michele,

 

In my opinion, you are on target when you say family traditions are working-based, as opposed to path-based. All of the discussions about spirituality, including the various types of Witchcraft, even all of the comments about achieving inner peace, being one with self or deity, etc, etc. have little to no meaning for me, because I simply do not give it that much thought. I don't have to work that hard at being myself, at being a Witch. I don't have to study Witchcraft or know or understand other paths. Not that there is anything at all wrong with learning new things, but I would be undertaking such activities to satiate my curiosity. I'm not going to convert or become a "Streg, eclectic-trad, eclectic wicca, Faery, CoTC, CS, nameless path, or what-have-you", as you described. I admit that I do enjoy the conversations on TW; however, I sometimes have to remember that there are various paths practiced here. I have found that my perspectives are sometimes different, which doesn't always mesh with other's.

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Michele,

 

In my opinion, you are on target when you say family traditions are working-based, as opposed to path-based. All of the discussions about spirituality, including the various types of Witchcraft, even all of the comments about achieving inner peace, being one with self or deity, etc, etc. have little to no meaning for me, because I simply do not give it that much thought. I don't have to work that hard at being myself, at being a Witch. I don't have to study Witchcraft or know or understand other paths. Not that there is anything at all wrong with learning new things, but I would be undertaking such activities to satiate my curiosity. I'm not going to convert or become a "Streg, eclectic-trad, eclectic wicca, Faery, CoTC, CS, nameless path, or what-have-you", as you described. I admit that I do enjoy the conversations on TW; however, I sometimes have to remember that there are various paths practiced here. I have found that my perspectives are sometimes different, which doesn't always mesh with other's.

 

I suppose that is one of the many things that get mixed up on forums where there are such diverse ways (on the public forums at least) is that quite often no two people will follow the same system or way of working or interests and sometimes that can confuse and/or bring up strong points of view. It is part of what makes the forums so fun and interesting, and also part of where some problems come from, I suppose. Blessing and bane on the same stalk and all that.

 

I don't think any one really has to work hard at being themselves, for people are always who they are. What people may have to work hard at is changing themselves if there is something in their lives they wish to change and I am (I hope, lol) forever growing, seeking, learning, and changing. It is something that I hope do be doing until the day I draw my last breath, and then to continue after. For me, personally, to stop asking and looking and wondering and exploring would be to stop living for it is one of the things I enjoy most. I know few people are interested in the mystical, but it is something I love. My path, obviously, is very different from many on here in that I personally choose to work with a witchcraft that has this very mystical side to it and I derive great pleasure from exploring those mysteries and the possibility of other forces. But then again, I do tend to have a very philosophical nature, lol.

 

M

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Guest Elfyd

I live in a very remote area, in the Bible Belt no less and there are few people that I can work or even talk with about my path... so in that aspect I find a coven attractive. I would like the social side and the interaction. But as someone mentioned, I would want one that encouraged workings outside the coven, one that acknowledged the unique differences of its members.

 

 

 

 

LdyShalot,

I live in a large city deep within the Bible-Belt (Wow, just how big is this damn belt?). I meet people of similar spiritual paths and crafts from time to time and even then it is difficult to connect in a social way. I have never been invited to join or form a cuveen and although i just do not feel it would work for me I often wonder...

Are you able to consider relocating to a more viable location if still seeking the presence of like minds?

 

FFFF

Elf

 

 

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Jevne, I think you did study witchcraft, it's just it was part of your growing up, so it seems more natural to you. Most of us here, I gather made a conscious decision to follow this path, so do have to put in the study now in a more concerted effort. Yours was simply done on a day-by-day basis.

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Just wanted to confuse things further by pointing out that the original source of the word Family had nothing to do with being related by Blood.

There are Households and Families here in Britain adhering to a Tradition and methods of working with none of the initiates being blood relatives.

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LdyShalot,

I live in a large city deep within the Bible-Belt (Wow, just how big is this damn belt?). I meet people of similar spiritual paths and crafts from time to time and even then it is difficult to connect in a social way. I have never been invited to join or form a cuveen and although i just do not feel it would work for me I often wonder...

Are you able to consider relocating to a more viable location if still seeking the presence of like minds?

 

FFFF

Elf

 

 

 

Elf.. LOL, too damn big if you ask me. I once lived in and now live about an hour outside of a city in western NC that can only be called a Mecca for holistic, metaphysical, alternative spiritualists. There is pretty strong Wiccan community and Dianic presence (which is not for me!) Perhaps when I am finished with the graduate school endeavor I will relocate.. but for now, I am stuck in the hollar..

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(Wow, just how big is this damn belt?)

FFFF

Elf

 

It's a rather crooked 'belt' but from what I can tell, runs from Utah with the Mormons east to the Atlantic, maybe excepting Colorado. East of the Mississippi, from WV south, encompassing all southern states except FL (too many northern transplants) and, of course, the city of New Orleans. There are fundies everywhere, natch, but seems worse in that section.

 

 

Elf.. LOL, too damn big if you ask me. I once lived in and now live about an hour outside of a city in western NC that can only be called a Mecca for holistic, metaphysical, alternative spiritualists.

 

LS, if you're talking about the city I think you're talking about, it's a breath of fresh air for me! I can easily ignore the various sects just to see shops that haven't been egged or otherwise 'molested'. Those of us living in the hills rather than the hollers don't dare even whisper 'metaphysical shop'. The one shop that opened in the nearest town to me closed after 1.5 years. She thought she'd cash in on the tourist trade but got 'way too much static from the locals. (Not to mention that she really didn't have a clue as to what she was selling ...) I was even turned down for a booth at one of the fairs as they didn't want 'my kind'.

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I think I don't like the word "Coven", to me covens are no different than any other holy rollin cult...I sort of label people in "covens" wannabe witches who don't want to devote the time and effort into their craft, so instead they're just brainwashed to believe what they are told, and do things how they are told it should be done. I dunno.

 

I've never done any group workings, lol, I'm the only witch I know...besides all of you

:witchbroom:

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A gathering of witches... does that not make this online community a coven, in some way(s)?

 

 

Not to me, I don't consider this forum a like a coven at all. Online community yes, but coven nooo

"a gathering of witches" is way to vague a description imo and is not a coven make :)

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I think I don't like the word "Coven", to me covens are no different than any other holy rollin cult...I sort of label people in "covens" wannabe witches who don't want to devote the time and effort into their craft, so instead they're just brainwashed to believe what they are told, and do things how they are told it should be done. I dunno.

 

I've never done any group workings, lol, I'm the only witch I know...besides all of you

:witchbroom:

 

 

I agree to some extent. There definately are those covens out there that fit this description and I can understand your point of veiw because I used to live in northern Ny and most of the covens I have heard of in that area fit this description. Honestly, I attribute that to lack of knowledge as in that area there are lots of people that "wannabe" witches but don't have the correct knowledge of what it is they are doing. I have found that the people with the true talent are very selective of who they associate with and are less likely to be attracted to the coven "scene". All that aside, I'm pretty sure there are covens out there that have their shit together for lack of a better term. People that are experience with the other realms and that can easily put egos aside to work with it with others. These people are probably rare and very selective of who they associate with also. Basically, my point is, those that are getting the "press", bad press, are those that are egotistical and/or unknowledgable. Not all covens are like that.

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