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Pact with the Devil


Xaviera

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Very interesting. I have a prodestant background, and my stepmom constantly tells me that I belong to jesus forever, no matter what I do. That's a big debate depending on which denomination you talk to. So, I didn't sign any pact, but it implied with the church from what I gather, at least IME.

 

Hi Izzie,

 

Your Step-Mother, has been indoctrinated into the dogma and creed of the Protestant Belief.  So it only fitting that she believes what she's been fed to believe.  One doesn't necessarily have to " sign " anything to be swallowed into the servitude. I'm inclined to believe that demon's know this as well, if the stupid human is gullible enough to believe this farce, how empowered they may be to our naivety ? 

 

Just my thoughts as you pulled my original thread back into play. :smile:

 

 

Regards,

Gypsy

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When I was probably around 14-16 years old I struggled with leaving the church. Fears of hell aside, I thought that because I had sold my soul to God he was not just going to give it back to me so I could do what I wanted with it. I mean, I literally offered God my soul in exchange for eternal life, so unless he just ignored me (jerk move, God) that would mean it's taken, right?

 

I have since revoked my contract with God and told him he could shove it. I'm still waiting to be smited (smote?) and it hasn't happened yet. So either God never really cared for me in the first place (which I feel is a distinct possibility) or the contract I made with him was not binding (which I also feel is particularly possible).

 

That being said, I have entered in to contracts once I started trying out witchcraft, and they have had serious repercussions. I have my theories as to why.

 

It could have been that the contracts I made as a child were not considered any good. (Any opinions on this? Do the deals kids make not count the same as the deals adults make?)

 

It could be that I was being watched over by someone or some thing who stopped me from making a lasting bond with God because that was not in the books for me.

 

It could have been that I was trying to broker a deal with a god that was not interested in me before, whereas now I can broker deals with things that are interested in me and will actively involve themselves in the deal.

 

Or, it could be that now I have the ability to actually make a proper contract that has an impact across worlds.

 

Despite all that, whatever I promised to God or the Church, I don't think it matters now in my life. I never paid any price, as far as I can tell, for breaking those promises. In fact, formally rejecting God seemed to be a catalyst to being thrown in to the wonderful world of magic (you can't tell, but I mean that sarcastically. It has not been at all pleasant so far.)

 

I can make a claim on anybody - I could say all of my ex boyfriend are forever dating me even if they broke up. But that doesn't necessarily have any power. And even if someone made a claim on me, I believe I have the power to break or block whatever hold they try to put on me (unless they are vastly more powerful, but fingers crossed that doesn't happen.) So if the Church came 'round telling me that I was still in their flock, even if that started to form a connection I do not believe I would let it go unburned.

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It could have been that the contracts I made as a child were not considered any good. (Any opinions on this? Do the deals kids make not count the same as the deals adults make?)

 

 

I think humans have far more power and understanding at a young age than the Western world promotes, especially considering the mind-boggingly extended adolescence that young residents of developed nations enjoy.  There are two avenues you can explore, depending on the flavor of ideology you prefer.  One is the "age of accountability" referred to in Judeo-Christian texts.  The other is the "age of reason" as defined by modern psychology.  What's interesting is that both perspectives define the emergence of personal awareness as falling between the ages of 6 and 8 years.  

 

How that translates into the permanence of contracts and influences one's witchcraft, I'm unsure (although I have plenty of ideas).

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I think Satanists put the age of reason around 18 maybe? I say that because someone told me you cannot join the church of Satan until you're an adult. Maybe that's because demons want to make sure you're fully aware of a contract? I dunno, just my thought. 

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I think Satanists put the age of reason around 18 maybe? I say that because someone told me you cannot join the church of Satan until you're an adult. Maybe that's because demons want to make sure you're fully aware of a contract? I dunno, just my thought. 

 

 

18 is the age of legal responsibility for most things.  I do not know of any occult / pagan group that takes members under the age of 18 unless is a more familial type tradition and they are born into it.  Figure with Satanism its not because the demons want it but because society expects it to protect its young via legality and the legal system.

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Society today accepts 18 as an adult.  Except that 18 yr olds don't wake up on their birthday morning all growed up and shit.  The one thing that does change is now their parents are no longer able to sue for corrupting their children.

 

The Universe, Powers That Be, the Gods, whatever you want to call it, doesn't go by an 18th birthday.  Hell, it/they don't care if you understand the consequences of any agreement, contract, promise, vow, oath or pact.  Only that it's been done. 

 

I'm going to use a different color to reply within the quote box.  I'm much to tired and lazy today to make a bunch of different quote boxes.

 

When I was probably around 14-16 years old I struggled with leaving the church. Fears of hell aside, I thought that because I had sold my soul to God he was not just going to give it back to me so I could do what I wanted with it. I mean, I literally offered God my soul in exchange for eternal life, so unless he just ignored me (jerk move, God) that would mean it's taken, right?

 

Just because you offered it does not mean that it was accepted.  If your soul is already claimed by another deity - it wasn't yours to offer in the first place.  (Not everyone believes that or agrees with that - I really don't want to argue religion or theology)  According to biblical tenets - Jehovah (because 'god' isn't a name - it's a job description) he either already owns your soul and waits for you to figure that out or you're not one of His.  Think of it like cattle branding.  Three different ranchers can loose their cows in a pasture.  Each of the ranchers has their own symbol burned into the cow.  When it's time to collect them the ranchers take the ones that belong to them (if they're not shady).

 

He is a jerk.  And a vengeful prick.

 

I have since revoked my contract with God and told him he could shove it. I'm still waiting to be smited (smote?) and it hasn't happened yet. So either God never really cared for me in the first place (which I feel is a distinct possibility) or the contract I made with him was not binding (which I also feel is particularly possible).

 

So you've already performed the Rite of the Oathbreaker -OR- He didn't accept your contract in the first place. 

 

It happens.  A lot of the things we swear to as kids who think they know it all - we never really should've.

 

That being said, I have entered in to contracts once I started trying out witchcraft, and they have had serious repercussions. I have my theories as to why.

 

It could have been that the contracts I made as a child were not considered any good. (Any opinions on this? Do the deals kids make not count the same as the deals adults make?)

 

Oh, they count.  And then when you make a new one you're bound to both of them.  They're usually in opposition.  Not fun.  That can take YEARS to fix and overcome - if ever.

 

It could be that I was being watched over by someone or some thing who stopped me from making a lasting bond with God because that was not in the books for me.

 

That one doesn't feel right.  Taking it a step further than surface thoughts - who or what is making your decisions for you without your knowledge.  That would piss me off.

 

It could have been that I was trying to broker a deal with a god that was not interested in me before, whereas now I can broker deals with things that are interested in me and will actively involve themselves in the deal.

 

Could be. 

 

I'm not so much into the 'brokering deals' things.  I don't need to broker with my Allies. 

 

Or, it could be that now I have the ability to actually make a proper contract that has an impact across worlds.

 

Could be.

 

But why broker deals or make contracts when a mutually beneficial relationship would do much more.  I've found it works better for me to offer a choice instead of a deal.

 

Despite all that, whatever I promised to God or the Church, I don't think it matters now in my life. I never paid any price, as far as I can tell, for breaking those promises. In fact, formally rejecting God seemed to be a catalyst to being thrown in to the wonderful world of magic (you can't tell, but I mean that sarcastically. It has not been at all pleasant so far.)

 

Excellent point and distinction.  I don't believe that the Church (just about any of them) has much to do with God.  Those are promises made to men who think/believe/behave as if they have a direct line. 

 

I don't know if formally rejecting Him was the catalyst on His end or yours.  Once you walked away from that, took a different fork in the path - the scenery changed and you went (literally) to a different place than you were before.  It could simply have been leaving the pasture and wandering up a mountain trail instead.

 

I can make a claim on anybody - I could say all of my ex boyfriend are forever dating me even if they broke up. But that doesn't necessarily have any power. And even if someone made a claim on me, I believe I have the power to break or block whatever hold they try to put on me (unless they are vastly more powerful, but fingers crossed that doesn't happen.) So if the Church came 'round telling me that I was still in their flock, even if that started to form a connection I do not believe I would let it go unburned.

 

Someone's really getting into fire.  :blobfire:

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  • 1 month later...

Leaving one's childhood beliefs to follow another path can obviously be a traumatic psychological experience that some don't take lightly.

But to be so inclined to be studying how to make a packt with satan either says that you believe in the christian/jewish god or that you are doing research for an important lecture about religion.

 

You have ALL the right in the wold to believe that Satan is more real than huckelberry finn.

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CG,

 

I was subjected in the RCC too.  I refused Confirmation (big drama) therefore do not belong to the church; could not be married in one, either. Boo fucking hoo.

 

Question: Why were you confirmed so young? (For us, Communion happened in second grade -- Confirmation occurred years later, @ 12-14 years old. ) The 'Age of Reason' was separated between being is old enough to know what sin is (communion) and freely giving oneself to the 'gifts' holy spirit (confirmation)

 

Seem 8 years old is WAAAAAY too young to make such promise/pact. That's just awful.

 

Anyway, most catholics believe that baptism rite claims your soul and cannot be undone, just like birth cannot be undone. 

 

(The other two rites are initiations into the faith/church. Milage will vary with each diocese.)

 

Izzie,

 

The Protestants and Catholics (all Christians, as far as I know) are big with the baptism rite, and I can see you mom saying it cannot be broken.

 

I took Free Will as a choice NOT to practice the faith that was forced upon me without my consent or permission. To me, I gave no such oath; therefor it's impossible for me to break it.. i.e. no smiting (winks, Wex)

 

Hell, my bible thumping folk claim there's 'no saving me' anyway... so I guess they don't truly believe that baptism worked. Go figure. I'll take it, tho. 

 

As far a believing in Satan, I guess I'd have to believe in the bible... and that's where you lose me completely. 

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Leaving one's childhood beliefs to follow another path can obviously be a traumatic psychological experience that some don't take lightly.

But to be so inclined to be studying how to make a packt with satan either says that you believe in the christian/jewish god or that you are doing research for an important lecture about religion.

 

You have ALL the right in the wold to believe that Satan is more real than huckelberry finn.

Some satanists claim that Satan exists outside of xtian doctrine. I had to look more into that because it peaked my interest...for me that was a part of getting away from the church's views.

 

Yes it is traumatic to change childhood beliefs. It's like your world is turned upside down.

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Leaving one's childhood beliefs to follow another path can obviously be a traumatic psychological experience that some don't take lightly.

But to be so inclined to be studying how to make a packt with satan either says that you believe in the christian/jewish god or that you are doing research for an important lecture about religion.

 

You have ALL the right in the wold to believe that Satan is more real than huckelberry finn.

 

I believe in the Jewish god. I mean, I believe in gods, and I can't see any particular reason why everyone should get a god except the Jews. I think it's interesting that some pagans are generally accepting of all cosmologies except the Jewish/Christian one. Worshiping Thor, Set, or Hera is no big deal, but once you start believing in Jehovah you're a bit off your rocker. I don't believe much of what people say about the Jewish god, but I am quite confident that he does exist one way or another.

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I believe in the Jewish god. I mean, I believe in gods, and I can't see any particular reason why everyone should get a god except the Jews. I think it's interesting that some pagans are generally accepting of all cosmologies except the Jewish/Christian one. Worshiping Thor, Set, or Hera is no big deal, but once you start believing in Jehovah you're a bit off your rocker. I don't believe much of what people say about the Jewish god, but I am quite confident that he does exist one way or another.

 

================================

 

I've never been able to understand the difference between the jewish god and the christian god when it comes down to it. I thought they were the same except the word salvation was thrown in there to give precedence to the existence and teachings of a demi-god. 

 

Anyway.... you are so right about the worshiping of Thor, Set, Hera, Hades, Mithril, and whoever else (Satan) that people want to go for but then they have a big aversion to the christian/jewish god.

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From what I can gather...the modern idea of "Satan" stems from observations of the Cults of Bacchus, the roaming tribe cults were quite raunchy, drunk, and hedonistic in their activities and the image of their Satyr god was eventually assimilated into the Holy Roman pantheon as an antagonist matching the same antagonist in the Tanakh found in the book of Job and also the one who offers Jesus the riches of the world on the mountaintop.  I think it's a rather strange leap..., but you also can take into consideration the role that Shaman priests played in the Nortern/Baltic crusades and even before that during the HRE's occupation of the British Isles.  Typically they would wear the horns of rams or stags on their head.  This may not have been strange to a Roman living during its Pagan times but we are talking hundreds of years after Jesus purportedly walked the earth...Christian soldiers and Roman priests would have been quite shocked at the behaviors they may have seen...especially trekking into the wilds of Finland and Northeastern Europe --facing battle with some of the most ferocious warriors they would ever experience...even in comparison to some of the Moors and Arabs they fought en route to Palestine.

 

I for one, am deistic and do not believe that an omnipotent, omnipresent deity is interested in us or even cares we exist.

 

The biggest reason I scoff at the Abrahamic religions is because virtually everything about them is borrowed from another previous religion or set of folklore/mythology.  Including the concept of Satan.

 

It has been since I was child since I called upon the Christian god--I never had any results.  In fact, I've never had any results calling upon any god.  Spirits--well...I like to say "shop local"

 

my god I dunno if that lump of text makes sense...

*hits post button*

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From what I can gather...the modern idea of "Satan" stems from observations of the Cults of Bacchus, the roaming tribe cults were quite raunchy, drunk, and hedonistic in their activities and the image of their Satyr god was eventually assimilated into the Holy Roman pantheon as an antagonist matching the same antagonist in the Torah found in the book of Job and also the one who offers Jesus the riches of the world on the mountaintop.  I think it's a rather strange leap..., but you also can take into consideration the role that Shaman priests played in the Nortern/Baltic crusades and even before that during the HRE's occupation of the British Isles.  Typically they would wear the horns of rams or stags on their head.  This may not have been strange to a Roman living during its Pagan times but we are talking hundreds of years after Jesus purportedly walked the earth...Christian soldiers and Roman priests would have been quite shocked at the behaviors they may have seen...especially trekking into the wilds of Finland and Northeastern Europe --facing battle with some of the most ferocious warriors they would ever experience...even in comparison to some of the Moors and Arabs they fought en route to Palestine.

 

I for one, am deistic and do not believe that an omnipotent, omnipresent deity is interested in us or even cares we exist.

 

The biggest reason I scoff at the Abrahamic religions is because virtually everything about them is borrowed from another previous religion or set of folklore/mythology.  Including the concept of Satan.

 

It has been since I was child since I called upon the Christian god--I never had any results.  In fact, I've never had any results calling upon any god.  Spirits--well...I like to say "shop local"

 

my god I dunno if that lump of text makes sense...

*hits post button*

 

*hits like button before responding*

 

You are a very learned person. And quite honest. I hope to hear more about your adventures in the future.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I never really had a problem with leaving christianity as I had never been able to identify with it anyway. I've never been a true believer. On my sixteenth birthday I announced that I'd stop attending church (I grew up in a church going protestant family) and told my parents I couldn't do it anymore, sitting in church every Sunday and feeling nothing but disgust or at best indifference and intense boredom. I'd thought it all through really well before I made the announcement, and I considered my reasoning pretty mature for a guy of my age, and I wrongly assumed my parents might appreciate that.

 

LOL Of course all hell broke loose instead and one of my parents' silly arguments was that I had been baptized and was therefore forever connected to the church, God and Jesus, even if I willingly turned my back on them. I countered that by saying that it never had been my choice to be baptized to begin with, and that something forced upon me without knowing lacked any true value. Then they started saying that they had promised to raise me as a good christian and to make sure I attended church at least until I reached the age of eighteen, after which it would be my decision to attend or not, and they were going to be true to their word.

 

Of course this made me furious, especially because additionally my father pettily tried to coerce me into compliance by stating I would not receive pocket-money anymore and would have to stay grounded until I agreed to attend church and I had no intention of giving in. Talk about a fucked up birthday vibe, it was memorable. LOL 

 

I remember saying that I thought their ideas and methods to me were similar to rape, which they couldn't really appreciate. I never attended a sevice again, except for the one time I attended my sister's wedding consecration, and reluctantly so.

 

It's all their values, their convictions, not the ones of those who reject and dismiss christianity. It has only value and "power" to THEM. Nothing in this world can tie anyone to a religion, a God or a church that just doesn't fit.

 

What happened was that my parents did ground me and withheld my weekly pocket-money for a while, and I decided to generally not care, as I delivered newspapers so I had some money of my own, and the grounding was easliy circumvented because my bedroom had a window that was big enough to climb through, and seeing their methods didn't work, my parents stopped trying. I guess at the time they were more concerned about attending church with their son lacking and having some explaining to do than about my actual well-being. 

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Alas, I have to agree RoseRed. I may laugh and joke about it now, but at the time it was no fun at all except for the whole situation being so insane it felt ridiculously hilarious. If only people in close family relationships could accept and respect each other's religious (or lack thereof) personal limits and boundaries when it comes to freedom of beliefs/convictions, life would be so nice. Instead, when people assume they are acting in their closest ones' best interest trying to force some fully incompatible ideas including mandatory behaviour upon them, they are causing loads of damage and estrangement rather than nurturing blood ties and healthy family relationships.

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Alas, I have to agree RoseRed. I may laugh and joke about it now, but at the time it was no fun at all except for the whole situation being so insane it felt ridiculously hilarious. If only people in close family relationships could accept and respect each other's religious (or lack thereof) personal limits and boundaries when it comes to freedom of beliefs/convictions, life would be so nice. Instead, when people assume they are acting in their closest ones' best interest trying to force some fully incompatible ideas including mandatory behaviour upon them, they are causing loads of damage and estrangement rather than nurturing blood ties and healthy family relationships.

-----

 

I completely agree. Being on the receiving end of some heavy bible thumping, I can attest to the mental assault. To this day my step mom preached to me, even though I've told her that I don't care. I guess freedom = threat.

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-----

 

I completely agree. Being on the receiving end of some heavy bible thumping, I can attest to the mental assault. To this day my step mom preached to me, even though I've told her that I don't care. I guess freedom = threat.

..............................................................................

 

I'd love to do some serious Bible Thumping, Izzie - with an axe. LOL

 

But seriously, loads of damage are being done by people assuming you are not only misguided and terribly wrong in all of the wrong ways, according to them you've also forsaken your own "secured safe spot/comfortable and privileged status in accepted society/well-earned place in heaven" by not believing anything they do and behaving accordingly so, and you are also a threat to theirs, as in you don't fit in and don't play along the usual games within the community you were born into and your parents/family/peers will have to go out of their minds to explain and defend to their greater community why just that could have happened.

 

They are considered being able to be held responsible and accountable for your "derailment" somehow. Going against the grain imho is an art, and an inevitable one for anyone sane enough to opt for non-compliance and non-conformity, but it often comes with a heavy price, namely to receive the status of black sheep - one's social position changes completely, one is being frowned upon, doubted, even feared, etc. and complications interacting with the generally accepted community are numerous.

 

Personal individual freedom is somehow being considered a failure on account of the ones that should have been able to keep you on the "right side of the tracks", those who should have prevented you to cross to the wrong/undesired side of said tracks in the first place, not just a flaw of the individual itself.

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As an outsider the the christian religion (I went my first time when I was 13 y/o and when they talked about Jesus I perked up because I had heard the name but didn't know anything about him) let me give you a different account.

 

Sunday school for the first time they sat me in the little kids's section and when they were reading about Jesus and the lambs (he was petting the lambs) and then in the next picture he was floating in the air and all the sheep were on their knees bowing to him - I lost it. I remember standing up and telling the teacher I felt like this was an evil cult and that I wanted to leave. These pictures are a lie and it made me angry that I had to read it. She smiled at me and told me I could do whatever I wanted to do, but to please not disrupt the children. I flipped her off and started on my way outside, disrupting the sermon going on upstairs along the way. The entire audience was staring at me and the preacher made his way closer to me and asked me if I had a revelation of god's victory to share. I was caught in the spotlight. I had no clue what he was talking about and I mumbled something i'm sure was incomprehensible. I remember he laughed and put his hand on my head and tried to bless me. When he walked away he started yelling loudly about how the children of men love the lord. All the audience clapped at me and then they turned around. I never have been THAT humiliated in my life since. If they had only knew at the time that I had flipped that teacher off only 10 seconds ago, I would have likely been in trouble.

 

Anyway...... it doesn't have to be an art to dodge one belief and still be accepted by your family. My half-family here accepts me even though they were scared to death of the little magic spells I did to pass math class, and for getting the cute blonde cheerleader Mickey (can't remember last name) girl to kiss me. Just be yourself, and if you are true to your convictions, christians will accept you too. Believe me, I've ran into a few of them in my life.

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I can understand the humiliation, SachaX, that must have been horrible!

 

Dutch reformed communities like the one I grew up in are pretty tight, pretty inflexible too, and there's a lot of social control going on, and once you get out you really are the black sheep to a degree that's pretty scary. This all happened in the village I was born in and the tolerance level towards apostates is really low. My sister even left home because she didn't want to live under the same roof with me anymore. She was convinced I was possessed by the devil, she claimed she had heard demons in my bedroom, and she was basically scared to death of me. I quickly solved the source of the "demons" for her LOL as there was a thermos with herbal tea in my room that stood there hissing, but even confronted with that she didn't believe me, in her mind there were demons, not tea, and she stuck to her obsession. Other family members were scared of me because I dyed my hair in unusual colours for a while and had a nose piercing.  :rolleyes:  :cuckoo:

 

I know there are nice christians as well, as I even had a relationship with one (shame about her personality disorder though), and my best friend here in the neighbourhood is a christian too, and she is one of the coolest people I know.

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  • 4 weeks later...

The devil, Satan? 

 

 Adversary of the Abrahamic single supreme male deity, both having origins in ancient Semitic beliefs. Satan was once a Shaitan, a particularly evil type of Jinn, brought north with early Arabic migrations from the Saudi peninsula just as was the Semitic, Adonai, Adon, Adonis-Tammuz, Baal, Yahweh and Al-lahu.

 

God and Satan have also been placed in a duality with the Zoroastrian Ahura Madza and Angra Mainyu as well as Marduk and Tiamat. 

 

I can't imagine those living far away being effected by these foreign near-eastern deities and devils, both in my opinion who were modified by humankind from local spirits(Jinn) of an all but barren land. 

 

It seems to me this concept of a single supreme male god and the devil are one in the same. A master of spiritual extortion. A monstrous two headed desert demon. A single coin with two sides and those in spiritual hock all through life on earth believing in the conditions that have to be met for a heavenly afterlife. With the concept of Satan as a boogieman to keep the people faithful. 

 

Terrible enough, were Dark Age Christians who  turned the extremely ancient antlered spirits into a horned devils. 

 

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Very interesting. I have a prodestant background, and my stepmom constantly tells me that I belong to jesus forever, no matter what I do. That's a big debate depending on which denomination you talk to. So, I didn't sign any pact, but it implied with the church from what I gather, at least IME.

 

I asked this type of question years ago- basically since I was also told (Southern Baptist/Pentecostal depending on mother/father) once you were a "child of god", you'd always be a child of god...or something to that extent. Basically if you've been a believer (usually this meant baptized, but those two denominations don't/didn't  baptize infants and usually not younger children at all)you'll always be one. I contended that this was impossible and that scripture backs up that point. If you don't fully understand what you're doing- and how many kids actually do when it comes to religion, especially as an infant for crying out loud; how is it possible to really be a believer? If the idea behind faith is that we're given free will, how can one reasonably expect an infant or young child to have free will? 

 

 

I think humans have far more power and understanding at a young age than the Western world promotes, especially considering the mind-boggingly extended adolescence that young residents of developed nations enjoy.  There are two avenues you can explore, depending on the flavor of ideology you prefer.  One is the "age of accountability" referred to in Judeo-Christian texts.  The other is the "age of reason" as defined by modern psychology.  What's interesting is that both perspectives define the emergence of personal awareness as falling between the ages of 6 and 8 years.  

 

How that translates into the permanence of contracts and influences one's witchcraft, I'm unsure (although I have plenty of ideas).

 

I was about 6-7 when I first doubted the existence of god and it (the doubt) progressively got worse as time went by and I began to disprove and show so much contradiction within the bible.  I think the one that shocked (still does) people the most is that I questioned why the bible starts with a lie. I asked (as a child), "why is it that it's God, not Satan, who lies to Adam and Eve? Satan told her the truth, but God told her she'd die if ate from the tree and he didn't kill her. I thought you weren't  supposed to lie. Why did he break one of the 10 commandments then?"  *Crickets*

 

I've heard so many people say that it's unusual for a child that young to question the existence of god in that manner, but it seems to me that the ones who questioned it young tended to be ummm, how do I put this....a bit on the brighter side from an intellectual standpoint?

 

Experimentally we decided not to discuss religion of any sort (including atheist and/or agnostic beliefs) when we first had our daughter. We wanted to see if children had an innate concept of a god without the knowledge of any religious view point. Ironically it wasn't until she started kindergarden when the issue came up. Naturally it was that she was going to hell if she didn't believe in Jesus, even though she didn't know who that was. It was def interesting to see that she had no concept and/or even abstract ideas about it until being subjected to it. 

 

Side note- Case in point. We were at a dr. appt. one time and there was a book in the waiting area (a children's book no less) that had "God" in the title somewhere. Her eyes got huge and she covered her mouth, whispering (loudly) to my husband, "There's a BAD WORD ON THERE!!" As in, she only knew that word in one context, preceding the word dammit. 

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From what I can gather...the modern idea of "Satan" stems from observations of the Cults of Bacchus, the roaming tribe cults were quite raunchy, drunk, and hedonistic in their activities and the image of their Satyr god was eventually assimilated into the Holy Roman pantheon as an antagonist matching the same antagonist in the Tanakh found in the book of Job and also the one who offers Jesus the riches of the world on the mountaintop.  I think it's a rather strange leap..., but you also can take into consideration the role that Shaman priests played in the Nortern/Baltic crusades and even before that during the HRE's occupation of the British Isles.  Typically they would wear the horns of rams or stags on their head.  This may not have been strange to a Roman living during its Pagan times but we are talking hundreds of years after Jesus purportedly walked the earth...Christian soldiers and Roman priests would have been quite shocked at the behaviors they may have seen...especially trekking into the wilds of Finland and Northeastern Europe --facing battle with some of the most ferocious warriors they would ever experience...even in comparison to some of the Moors and Arabs they fought en route to Palestine.

 

I for one, am deistic and do not believe that an omnipotent, omnipresent deity is interested in us or even cares we exist.

 

The biggest reason I scoff at the Abrahamic religions is because virtually everything about them is borrowed from another previous religion or set of folklore/mythology.  Including the concept of Satan.

 

It has been since I was child since I called upon the Christian god--I never had any results.  In fact, I've never had any results calling upon any god.  Spirits--well...I like to say "shop local"

 

my god I dunno if that lump of text makes sense...

*hits post button*

 

 

Way more than anything I've ever heard out of the mouth of a Christian.  :clap: 

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