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Pact with the Devil


Xaviera

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I found this interesting. A pact with the devil (or a number of devils) written in Latin and mirror writing (as, apparently the devil does everything backwards). The signatures (also reversed) are said to be those of Beelzebub, Satanus, Lucifer, Leviathan and Astaroth. It's in two parts and translates as follows:

 

Part 1:

We, the all-powerful Lucifer, seconded by Satan, Beelzebub, Leviathan, Elimi, Astaroth and ohers, have today accepted the pact of alliance with Urbain Grandier, who is on our side. And we promise him the love of women, the flower of virgins, the chastity of nuns, worldly honours, pleasures and riches. He will fornicate every three days; intoxication will be dear to him. He will offer to us once a year a tribute marked with his blood; he will trample under foot the sacraments of the church, and he will say his prayers to us. By virtue of this pact, he will live happily for twenty years on earth among men, and finally will come among us to curse God. Done in hell, in the council of the devils.

 

Part 2:

My lord and master Lucifer, I acknowledge thee as my God and prince, and promise to serve and obey thee as long as I shall live. And I renounce the other God, as well as Jesus Christ, all the saints, the apostolic and Roman church, all the sacraments, and all the prayers and petitions by which the faithful might intercede for me. And promise thee that I will do as much evil as I can, and that I will draw everyone else to evil. I renounce chrism (the consecrated oil used for baptism, confirmation and ordination), baptism, all the merits of Jesus Christ and his saints. And if I fail to serve and adore thee, and if I do not pay thee homage thrice every day, I give you my life as your own. Made this year and day.

Signed , Urbain Grandier, extracted from hell.

post-642-0-44846600-1303327620_thumb.jpg

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I can't get the picture to pop up bigger:(

 

I am curious to know why one would make an oath in Latin? Seems like with all the dead and dying languages one might pick something more original and not over used and even Harry Potter knows. One would also think that Satan being who he is, he might also speak English.

 

That's just me though.

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I couldn't get the pic to pop up larger, either, but Wikipedia has it on their page about Urbain Grandier. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urbain_Grandier

 

Honestly, based on Wikipedia's info (which may or may not be accurate), sounds like a fabrication, especially when one considers that Richelieu went to great lengths to dispose of anyone he didn't like.

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That is interesting. Where did you get it Absinthe?

 

I found it in one of my old books while rummaging through my shelves. "Witches - History of a Persecution" by N Cawthorne.

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I couldn't get the pic to pop up larger, either, but Wikipedia has it on their page about Urbain Grandier. http://en.wikipedia....Urbain_Grandier

 

Honestly, based on Wikipedia's info (which may or may not be accurate), sounds like a fabrication, especially when one considers that Richelieu went to great lengths to dispose of anyone he didn't like.

 

I thought the wording (providing the translation is accurate) was very suspect and sounded to me more like children arguing in a playground. Especially: "...who is on our side..." and: "...I will do as much evil as I can..." The book I found it in states that Grandier's real crime was making a public joke at the expense of Richelieu so you're spot on there, MW.

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I can't get the picture to pop up bigger:(

 

I am curious to know why one would make an oath in Latin? Seems like with all the dead and dying languages one might pick something more original and not over used and even Harry Potter knows. One would also think that Satan being who he is, he might also speak English.

 

That's just me though.

 

This was supposed to be in France in 1634. I don't know how prevalent Latin was amongst churchy folk then, but the Roman Catholic church has always been fond of Latin.

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With how the Roman conquests invaded Europe, I wouldn't be surprised if Latin was spoken in France in the 1600's. There were different forms of Latin, spoken all along and up the Mediterranean and they evolved into the romance languages. When being conquored and controlled by such a force as the Roman Empire, I would surmize the captives would have to learn the dialect of their owners. Interesting find, Absinthe ! I'd love to peruse your library. :cheers:

 

Regards,

Gypsy

 

 

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OKay, granted I'm extremely literal and I work in a law office, but why would any demon require a pact in writing or a written contract - I mean, what's the demon going to do, sue for breach of contract, lol? I have no doubt that some people may well have a relationship with demons, but I doubt it is written down, and I would doubt even more that the demon would materialize to sign it. Hence, I'd think it was church-created. Even the 'pacts" made in church with the Xtian god and the worshiper do not require a written pact (that I know of) - sure one is baptised and "saved" but it's not to my knowledge written in a contract of promises and signed by the saviee and the saviour. I don't know... the whole thing seems fishy.

 

M

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OKay, granted I'm extremely literal and I work in a law office, but why would any demon require a pact in writing or a written contract - I mean, what's the demon going to do, sue for breach of contract, lol? I have no doubt that some people may well have a relationship with demons, but I doubt it is written down, and I would doubt even more that the demon would materialize to sign it. Hence, I'd think it was church-created. Even the 'pacts" made in church with the Xtian god and the worshiper do not require a written pact (that I know of) - sure one is baptised and "saved" but it's not to my knowledge written in a contract of promises and signed by the saviee and the saviour. I don't know... the whole thing seems fishy.

 

M

 

Some churches/denominations require written agreements or 'pacts', and some of the more extreme ones consider people 'unsaved' if they're not members of that church. The idea isn't biblical (based on my studies of the Bible in previous years) but it is there in some minor denominations today... whether this is something new in more recent years or a surviving remnant of older christian customs, I'm not sure.

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OKay, granted I'm extremely literal and I work in a law office, but why would any demon require a pact in writing or a written contract - I mean, what's the demon going to do, sue for breach of contract, lol? I have no doubt that some people may well have a relationship with demons, but I doubt it is written down, and I would doubt even more that the demon would materialize to sign it. Hence, I'd think it was church-created. Even the 'pacts" made in church with the Xtian god and the worshiper do not require a written pact (that I know of) - sure one is baptised and "saved" but it's not to my knowledge written in a contract of promises and signed by the saviee and the saviour. I don't know... the whole thing seems fishy.

 

M

 

 

I would be inclined to believe, that since the demon is actually conversing with the human, already knowing of the fallibles that the human has or has been indoctrinated to have by those supposedly in authority, that a contract or pact could be very instrumental, in the mental mind of the human. Demons have been about for aeons. I would think that, they have seen contracts and pacts made between humans to humans, and would captalize on such a concrete, carved in stone, or on written paper. Since the human is so wrapped up in skin and ego, the demon has already won that round in obtaining the human for it's bidding. The human is his own worst enemy in this regards. I learned this when I left the Catholic Church, under my first marriage, that once I was confirmed at the tender age of 8, that it didn't matter if I left the Roman Catholic Church, and became a JW, or Morman, or Protestant, the priest told me the Roman Catholic Church would never release me from the pact I made with the Church. Apparantly at 8 years old, I did not realise that I signed this invisible contract/pact, with the words I spoke, but according to them, I did. It was part of their dogma and creed which made me wretch after I left.:sickwitch: :sickwitch:

Regards,

Gypsy

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This was supposed to be in France in 1634. I don't know how prevalent Latin was amongst churchy folk then, but the Roman Catholic church has always been fond of Latin.

 

Latin was the language of the 'educated' for centuries - and not just the church (although they controlled the majority of the education). Correspondence, contracts, etc., were usually written in Latin and even as late as the 19th century, one wasn't considered 'educated' unless one could speak and write Latin as fluently as one's native language. The truly snobbish even wrote in Greek. (Makes for reading some older books/texts really irritating at times.)

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Guest Elfyd

All,

 

This IS a fabrication, there are too many conflicting origins engaged here. What the fabricator did this for we can debate all day long, it does not matter. Latin was used as CelticGypsy indicates, but let us not forget that it was also the language of the learned, powerful and Xtian clergy folk, as such let us not forget that these are the people who practiced "demonic" exercises, the lesser folk were too busy staying alive and feeding their families in these times. It is my contention that this was a prank by someone who mistakenly thought they knew what they were doing. I do not feel anything valid here, I am glad that the image could not be enlarged, it may have triggered some flaw in my makeup.

 

FFFF

 

Elf

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All,

 

This IS a fabrication, there are too many conflicting origins engaged here. What the fabricator did this for we can debate all day long, it does not matter. Latin was used as CelticGypsy indicates, but let us not forget that it was also the language of the learned, powerful and Xtian clergy folk, as such let us not forget that these are the people who practiced "demonic" exercises, the lesser folk were too busy staying alive and feeding their families in these times. It is my contention that this was a prank by someone who mistakenly thought they knew what they were doing. I do not feel anything valid here, I am glad that the image could not be enlarged, it may have triggered some flaw in my makeup.

 

FFFF

 

Elf

 

I don't think there's any doubt that it's a fabrication. I just thought it was interesting that lives depended on the flimsiest of 'evidence'.

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I would be inclined to believe, that since the demon is actually conversing with the human, already knowing of the fallibles that the human has or has been indoctrinated to have by those supposedly in authority, that a contract or pact could be very instrumental, in the mental mind of the human. Demons have been about for aeons. I would think that, they have seen contracts and pacts made between humans to humans, and would captalize on such a concrete, carved in stone, or on written paper. Since the human is so wrapped up in skin and ego, the demon has already won that round in obtaining the human for it's bidding. The human is his own worst enemy in this regards. I learned this when I left the Catholic Church, under my first marriage, that once I was confirmed at the tender age of 8, that it didn't matter if I left the Roman Catholic Church, and became a JW, or Morman, or Protestant, the priest told me the Roman Catholic Church would never release me from the pact I made with the Church. Apparantly at 8 years old, I did not realise that I signed this invisible contract/pact, with the words I spoke, but according to them, I did. It was part of their dogma and creed which made me wretch after I left.:sickwitch: :sickwitch:

Regards,

Gypsy

 

I went through all that as well, Peg. The psychological hold of the Catholic church is staggering in its grip and in its circular arguments. I won't even get started on the hypocrisy.

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Latin was the language of the 'educated' for centuries - and not just the church (although they controlled the majority of the education). Correspondence, contracts, etc., were usually written in Latin and even as late as the 19th century, one wasn't considered 'educated' unless one could speak and write Latin as fluently as one's native language. The truly snobbish even wrote in Greek. (Makes for reading some older books/texts really irritating at times.)

 

As a child of a devout Catholic family born in the fifties, I probably knew more Latin than English at one point as the Mass was read in Latin back then and we attended Mass several times a week and had services at school too. Just as the RC church started to celebrate Mass in English, I started grammar school and was taught Latin properly. Having a grip on Latin makes you understand why so many cultures adopted it as their formal and contractual (written) language.

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OKay, granted I'm extremely literal and I work in a law office, but why would any demon require a pact in writing or a written contract - I mean, what's the demon going to do, sue for breach of contract, lol? I have no doubt that some people may well have a relationship with demons, but I doubt it is written down, and I would doubt even more that the demon would materialize to sign it. Hence, I'd think it was church-created. Even the 'pacts" made in church with the Xtian god and the worshiper do not require a written pact (that I know of) - sure one is baptised and "saved" but it's not to my knowledge written in a contract of promises and signed by the saviee and the saviour. I don't know... the whole thing seems fishy.

 

M

 

'Fishy' is an understatement, M. The whole thing seemed badly thought out but as I said elsewhere (sorry, I don't know how to do multiple quotes) it's just horrific to think that lives hung on such flimsy threads of 'evidence'. It looks to me as though the person who designed it simply threw all the demon/devil names that he had heard of into it and hoped others would be taken in. Sadly, they were. The fact that they felt it had to be a written contract is a reflection of the culture then - as it is now - whereby putting a signature to something lends it a sense of finality.

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(sorry, I don't know how to do multiple quotes)

 

On the comment(s) you want to multi-quote, click on the 'multiquote' icon by the one you use to reply to a certain comment - however many you want. The icon will turn green. Then scroll down a bit and click on the regular 'reply' button. It'll bring 'em all up in one comment box.

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All,

 

This IS a fabrication, there are too many conflicting origins engaged here. What the fabricator did this for we can debate all day long, it does not matter. Latin was used as CelticGypsy indicates, but let us not forget that it was also the language of the learned, powerful and Xtian clergy folk, as such let us not forget that these are the people who practiced "demonic" exercises, the lesser folk were too busy staying alive and feeding their families in these times. It is my contention that this was a prank by someone who mistakenly thought they knew what they were doing. I do not feel anything valid here, I am glad that the image could not be enlarged, it may have triggered some flaw in my makeup.

 

FFFF

 

Elf

 

Well yeah, but if its a fabrication as old as it appears to be, its still an interesting bit of history. I'm interested in it, and interested in reading more about it.

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Guest MissTree

Well yeah, but if its a fabrication as old as it appears to be, its still an interesting bit of history. I'm interested in it, and interested in reading more about it.

 

I agree! :-)

 

 

 

@ Absinthe - Thanks for sharing this. I enjoyed reading it. :cheers:

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Guest Elfyd

"appears to be" is an important part of this debate. If the whole thing is from 1634 CE France then we really should have a totally different approach to its worth in debate. If it has been "antiqued" not only does that prove guilt but also fraud and thereby disqualify itself.

 

FFFF

 

Elf

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"appears to be" is an important part of this debate. If the whole thing is from 1634 CE France then we really should have a totally different approach to its worth in debate. If it has been "antiqued" not only does that prove guilt but also fraud and thereby disqualify itself.

 

FFFF

 

Elf

 

Disqualify itself from what? From being interesting?

 

Also, I didn't really see anything in this thread as a 'debate'...

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Disqualify itself from what? From being interesting?

 

Also, I didn't really see anything in this thread as a 'debate'...

 

I would, also, be interested in a clarification of your statements, Elfyd.

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Latin was the language of the 'educated' for centuries - and not just the church (although they controlled the majority of the education). Correspondence, contracts, etc., were usually written in Latin and even as late as the 19th century, one wasn't considered 'educated' unless one could speak and write Latin as fluently as one's native language. The truly snobbish even wrote in Greek. (Makes for reading some older books/texts really irritating at times.)

 

 

Very well put M.Witch, in all languages, there is a " slang " of sorts. Could this be the difference between High Latin, and Low Latin ? Or a melding of a certain form of the dialect, whether or not the 'educated one's ' approved ?

 

Regards,

Gypsy

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