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The Darkness Within


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#21 LadyAlicia

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Posted 29 June 2007 - 07:42 PM

I find many of the points raised here food for thought. I really hadn't thought about light or dark as separate things. That sounds wrong but I don't know if I can put the words down more than they just are. Two sides of the same coin, I suppose that is it. I can work with light way more easier than dark (going by the ideas of each) I can heal or counsel with light energy but when I try to block or push away anything or use a hex or curse when needed, they kind of fizz out. When that happens I have to figure out a way around it. I finally came to the idea that I had something to learn from it or that it was just not the way my energy works. I have to work with what works for me. City energy (well, my city and some others, huge ones can make me ill - too much energy) Light energy, although I can do like what was mentioned a dark crystal for removing illness and light crystal for bringing health.

I don't know if I have made much sense but thought I would put my two cents in and mention I do come by and visit each day - I lurk a lot more ;)than post.

Regards - Allie

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#22 AnjelWolf

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Posted 29 June 2007 - 09:08 PM

I find many of the points raised here food for thought. I really hadn't thought about light or dark as separate things. That sounds wrong but I don't know if I can put the words down more than they just are. Two sides of the same coin, I suppose that is it. I can work with light way more easier than dark (going by the ideas of each) I can heal or counsel with light energy but when I try to block or push away anything or use a hex or curse when needed, they kind of fizz out. When that happens I have to figure out a way around it. I finally came to the idea that I had something to learn from it or that it was just not the way my energy works. I have to work with what works for me. City energy (well, my city and some others, huge ones can make me ill - too much energy) Light energy, although I can do like what was mentioned a dark crystal for removing illness and light crystal for bringing health.

I don't know if I have made much sense but thought I would put my two cents in and mention I do come by and visit each day - I lurk a lot more ;)than post.

Regards - Allie



I meant to respond to city energy earlier than now. Myself I cannot deal with city energy. It's not healthy or natural to me. In alot of times, I don't see a difference between light or dark energy that I use or create. It just is energy...sometimes just more raw than at other times.

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#23 Cairelle

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Posted 29 June 2007 - 11:07 PM

You are lucky KW. I lived in busy London all my life and by my mid 20s I just couldn't take it anymore and travelled round Australia. I then moved to Germany and then, again, lived in busy Munich for a further 6 years. I became a gibbering mess towards the end.

Finally, I settled in the middle of forests and rivers and lakes in Rheinland Pfalz and for me it is so energizing to see nature at it's full. No motorway cutting through the landscape, no noise, no dirt and thankfully not too many people either (me being such an antisocial bitch an' all lol)
:P


I do like to escape on occasion!! Sometimes I find the city to be TOO full of energy and it interrupts me. I am in the process of creating a haven for myself in my backyard, surrounded by high fences, so that I can visually have an escape. My neighborhood is relatively quiet at certain times, with the exception of the church bells that ring on the hour! (Which, actually, I like... :cool:) I tend to work during those times.

Because I tend to absorb a lot of other people's energy as well, I too am an antisocial bitch, lol... which makes things difficult at times where I am... but I find that most people here respect my boundaries and accept me for who I am.

I do so love New Orleans! :D

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“People don’t live in New Orleans because it is easy. They live here because they are incapable of living anywhere else in the just same way.” – Ian McNulty, A Season of Night: New Orleans Life After Katrina


#24 AnjelWolf

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Posted 29 June 2007 - 11:30 PM

and I cannot wait to get my witchy ass there LOL
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#25 RavensClaw

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Posted 30 June 2007 - 11:12 AM

Ok this is just some thoughts I've had, nothing concerte, just proto-conceptions and observations.

It appears to me that to truely understand witchcraft and succeed, you must understand or at least acknoledge the interplay between dark and light on a cosmic and metaphysical level. What do you think?...... I'm pretty sure I know what the answer will be.... but humor me. Also why do you think this? What I really want is for you to expand on the inter-play between these two forces which are diametrically opposed, but as opposites, must exist for the other to be relevant and a force to be recond with. I know some of you have already done this, but like I said I'm sorting thoughts in my head.

Also regarding city v's nature. It seems to me that this could be percieved as a physical manifestation of Light and Dark. To me witchcraft must be a living and relevant tradition to survive. In saying this, witchcraft must move forward with the times. In theory all the things... spirits, energies etc while although different due to environment should be accessable in the same way whether in a city scape or nature. What do you think on this subject?

I also think that to be successful in working with.... lets say pure nature, you must have an understanding of 'tainted' nature (cities). To ignore 'tainted nature' would be to turn away from a potent source for no good reason. What do you think?

When I talk of using'tainted' nature, I am not talking about the abhorent energies that humanity has created through war etc, more the everyday spirits and energies although I admit that this would have some of the problems and badness of humanity. Saying that I'm sure we've all come across places of natural beauty that have had terrible vibes, which we would never dream of using..... I see cities and towns the same.

Just imagine that office blocks are mountains, lamp-posts are tree's, roads are rivers.....

What do you think?

As I've said before, I think witchcraft needs to be a living, organic entity. As such, personally, I'm not looking to reconstruct something from 400 years ago or longer. I'm looking to be a part of something that is alive, retains the wisdom of the ancestors but moves forward with the times.

Again, what do you think?

Cheers,

RC:cool:

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#26 Sandy

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Posted 30 June 2007 - 01:11 PM

Well I hope some others will be chipping in because I am interested in what other people have to say aswell.

[quote name='RavensClaw']
It appears to me that to truely understand witchcraft and succeed, you must understand or at least acknoledge the interplay between dark and light on a cosmic and metaphysical level. What do you think?...... I'm pretty sure I know what the answer will be.... but humor me.
You are being humoured .. yes of course unless you practise Wicca .


Also why do you think this? What I really want is for you to expand on the inter-play between these two forces which are diametrically opposed, but as opposites, must exist for the other to be relevant and a force to be recond with. I know some of you have already done this, but like I said I'm sorting thoughts in my head.
I said this in an earlier post about torch and batteries .. anyone else wanna chip in ...???

Also regarding city v's nature. It seems to me that this could be percieved as a physical manifestation of Light and Dark. To me witchcraft must be a living and relevant tradition to survive. In saying this, witchcraft must move forward with the times. In theory all the things... spirits, energies etc while although different due to environment should be accessable in the same way whether in a city scape or nature. What do you think on this subject?
The energy of the universe will never stop, only the Earth itself changes from what man does to it. It is irrelevant to say Witchcraft needs a tradition to survive because spiritually the energy is always there. When we are reborn that knowledge is still there within our soul and many people I know who are strict Catholics are in fact very powerful witches, they just don't know it (which incidently is a fucking DANGEROUS combination!!!)


I also think that to be successful in working with.... lets say pure nature, you must have an understanding of 'tainted' nature (cities). To ignore 'tainted nature' would be to turn away from a potent source for no good reason. What do you think?
Of course but everyone is different on how they work with certain energy. Cities are in some ways as pure as natural surroundings when looking at it spiritually, but on a psychic level it is alot different. As I said before, for me personally, I cannot be around crowds of people for long because they "eat" into me.


Just imagine that office blocks are mountains, lamp-posts are tree's, roads are rivers.....
Well the Earth must breath. To see miles of tarmac and buildings is like putting rubber pants on the Earth. That is why it is SO important that cities have large parks or rivers or lakes to be able to breathe and absorb the intense combined and almost compressed energy.


As I've said before, I think witchcraft needs to be a living, organic entity. As such, personally, I'm not looking to reconstruct something from 400 years ago or longer. I'm looking to be a part of something that is alive, retains the wisdom of the ancestors but moves forward with the times.
We all evolve or we would still be sacrificing virgins at midnight LOL .. however I feel as long as you listen to your OWN higher self, your OWN spirit, you cannot go wrong.

It doesn't matter to me who claims to know the secrets his great great great great grandmother passed down (who is of course daughter of the 7th Chalice and had first hand accounts of dancing with the devil himself)


:lol2: anyone else care to continue? :popcorn:

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#27 Droghon

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Posted 30 June 2007 - 01:33 PM

[quote name='Sandy']Well I hope some others will be chipping in because I am interested in what other people have to say aswell.

[quote name='RavensClaw']
It appears to me that to truely understand witchcraft and succeed, you must understand or at least acknoledge the interplay between dark and light on a cosmic and metaphysical level. What do you think?...... I'm pretty sure I know what the answer will be.... but humor me.
You are being humoured .. yes of course unless you practise Wicca .

Or some other New Age nonsense ;)


Also why do you think this? What I really want is for you to expand on the inter-play between these two forces which are diametrically opposed, but as opposites, must exist for the other to be relevant and a force to be recond with. I know some of you have already done this, but like I said I'm sorting thoughts in my head.
I said this in an earlier post about torch and batteries .. anyone else wanna chip in ...???

Torch and batteries just sums it up well, why elaborate?

Also regarding city v's nature. It seems to me that this could be percieved as a physical manifestation of Light and Dark. To me witchcraft must be a living and relevant tradition to survive. In saying this, witchcraft must move forward with the times. In theory all the things... spirits, energies etc while although different due to environment should be accessable in the same way whether in a city scape or nature. What do you think on this subject?
The energy of the universe will never stop, only the Earth itself changes from what man does to it. It is irrelevant to say Witchcraft needs a tradition to survive because spiritually the energy is always there. When we are reborn that knowledge is still there within our soul and many people I know who are strict Catholics are in fact very powerful witches, they just don't know it (which incidently is a fucking DANGEROUS combination!!!)

In cities you just have to dig deeper, but the same energies are present. You know, I bet old time witches mumbled about those bloody new hamlets springing up ruining the countryside .. cities are the same writ large. LOL I agree on your point about some people being DANGEROUS who don't know what they are.

I also think that to be successful in working with.... lets say pure nature, you must have an understanding of 'tainted' nature (cities). To ignore 'tainted nature' would be to turn away from a potent source for no good reason. What do you think?
Of course but everyone is different on how they work with certain energy. Cities are in some ways as pure as natural surroundings when looking at it spiritually, but on a psychic level it is alot different. As I said before, for me personally, I cannot be around crowds of people for long because they "eat" into me.

The pshychic chatter and noise can be a sod to shut out, but shutting out extraneous chatter and noise is a basic skill if you practice Witchcraft. But I agree, some places are more conducive than others.

Just imagine that office blocks are mountains, lamp-posts are tree's, roads are rivers.....
Well the Earth must breath. To see miles of tarmac and buildings is like putting rubber pants on the Earth. That is why it is SO important that cities have large parks or rivers or lakes to be able to breathe and absorb the intense combined and almost compressed energy.

Agreed, so long as there are greenspaces and plenty of them then working in cities can be done, and under the roads, lamp posts and skyscrapers is .. Earth. You just have to 'dig' deep to find the connections.

As I've said before, I think witchcraft needs to be a living, organic entity. As such, personally, I'm not looking to reconstruct something from 400 years ago or longer. I'm looking to be a part of something that is alive, retains the wisdom of the ancestors but moves forward with the times.
.. I feel as long as you listen to your OWN higher self, your OWN spirit, you cannot go wrong.

It doesn't matter to me who claims to know the secrets his great great great great grandmother passed down (who is of course daughter of the 7th Chalice and had first hand accounts of dancing with the devil himself)

As always listen, see and you won't go too much wrong .. LMAO and too true on the rest Sands


:lol2: anyone else care to continue? :popcorn:[/quote]

OK anyone else :cool:

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#28 RavensClaw

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Posted 30 June 2007 - 02:25 PM

Thanks for the replies, I'm still sorting this out in my head so I'll post again when I have more thoughts on the subject. To be honest I agree with both of you, I'm just doing a bit of soul reflection.

RC

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#29 AnjelWolf

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Posted 30 June 2007 - 06:21 PM

You know...the only thing I can really add (after reading Sandy & Brians responses) are my own thoughts. First off...I agree with Sands.

Having said that let me explain why I cannot deal with city energy (I call them concrete jungles).

The concrete...bricks...steels...glass...everything that builds a city...is built from man (right???). Ok...follow me on this...each man has different energy...some good...some not so good. Each of their energy is left as a residual imprint on each and every brick, concrete, glass, steel piece of building.

Now when all of those energies are combined...it makes muck (no matter how you look at it). Next...throw in several thousand people (ALL with their energy). Don't forget the pollution, the overcrowding and the everyday bustle of normal city life. Think back to what it feels like. Guess what??? 99% is not only unhealthy...but it's not pure, raw energy.

To echo Sands words...I cannot work with crowds. They do me in everytime. I am an empath so it makes me literally drained, aggitated and (in some cases) over-whelmed. It just is too cluttured for me.

The difference between that energy muck and the natural energy cannot even be compared to light and dark energy. Those two are not even in the same realm.

To sum it up...city muck is artifical muck. Natural (raw) energy is pure.

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#30 Leigh

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Posted 30 June 2007 - 07:50 PM

So much has been discussed on this thread already that I'm not sure I have much more to add on the specific points covered. But I would like to take part, so I'm going back to beginning and running with my initial thoughts.


[...]I have become aware in recent times that to follow a traditional path, you must first embrace the dark as well as the light side of nature. As with most things trad related its a matter of working intraspectively. Finding the Darkness within, to understand the darkness externally.

So here it goes! What is this dark aspect of nature to you?[...]


When I first purposely started in Witchcraft as a teenager, I didn't have a distintion between light and dark magic. I dabbled, poked, and experimented as I saw fit, never considering where it came from.

A few years later, I got swept into a religious phase where the idea of "good is from light" and "evil is from dark" was pounded in to believers. Fast forward a few more years, and I shucked the Jesus Chains, began to question light and dark.

Here is what I came up with, how I learned to recognize and embrace both dark and light:

* Energy is neutral. It has no intent, wishes you neither harm or grace.

* Light and dark represent opposing aspects of all nature:
physical (sun/moon), emotional (hope/dispair), societal (dominant/submissive), instinctual (fight/flight), etc.

* All things in nature have opposition, which creates conditions for change, thus growth or decay. Lack of change results in stagnation; a void breeds nothing.

* The aspects of nature are neither good or evil.

* Witchcraft is about manipulating energy for change. To effectively encourage change, we must embrace all aspects in which change occurs.

* Good and evil, kindness and cruelty, love and hate -- these exist in our our intent, and our intent is what drives our will, which goes to manipulating the universal energy.

Clear as mud?
:wacko:

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#31 soap fairy

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Posted 30 June 2007 - 10:37 PM

:confused: Now I am sure I am going to regret this in some fundemental way but....
There keeps being this idea of light and dark as being diametrically opposite and opposed but I see them more as ends of a scale , if you think of a day you have midnight at one end and midday at the other but in between you have twilight and sunrise and many different shades.
I like the way the hummanists describe it , an individual has within them limitless capacity for good and limitless capacity for bad.
If you accept that sometimes in life you need to do things that would be commonly defined as bad or feel things that are defined as bad such as anger then you're a fully rounded being because they are all part of the same thing.
I was always taught that the symbolism of the lotus is that something that is pure and beautiful still needs muck to grow in ...
As far as cities and the energy they generate , I think so much of the landscape now is affected directly by the presence of human beings that it is very difficult to escape them . There are only a few true wildernesses remaining such as Antartica etc and even they have started to be affected but I think a lot of how well you tolerate being in close proximity to lots of people depends on your personal make up .
I frankly can't stand it!!!! The last time I was dragged to a night club by my benighted work collegues I ended up drinking far too much absinthe , telling a girl in the loos who was being rude to me that she shouldn't worry because she smelt of cheese which was a sure sign she was going to die in the next few days and then leaving said work collegues to go home without telling them.
I don't access my dark side much but when I do it tends to be spectacular .
I always use the psych nursing term to describe it 'appropriate use of authority'...:patsch:

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#32 Sandy

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Posted 01 July 2007 - 12:25 PM

* Energy is neutral. It has no intent, wishes you neither harm or grace.

* Light and dark represent opposing aspects of all nature:
physical (sun/moon), emotional (hope/dispair), societal (dominant/submissive), instinctual (fight/flight), etc.

* All things in nature have opposition, which creates conditions for change, thus growth or decay. Lack of change results in stagnation; a void breeds nothing.

* The aspects of nature are neither good or evil.

* Witchcraft is about manipulating energy for change. To effectively encourage change, we must embrace all aspects in which change occurs.

* Good and evil, kindness and cruelty, love and hate -- these exist in our our intent, and our intent is what drives our will, which goes to manipulating the universal energy.

Clear as mud?
:wacko:


Yes I can see your point and agree, however, if you look at it from another point of view, each thought form itself is an energy and that thought energy can be manifested into a purpose for love, healing, hate, ie good and bad.

Another example of "bad" energy is the same as bad vibes or negative vibes. Negative people will have a bad energy/vibe/aura around them - positive people usually have a good vibe/energy/aura, so for me I do see that energy itself can hold a purpose and is not always neutral...where thoughts and people's own energy are concerned anyway.

Also, surely this is how we have our "sixth sense" and our intuition - surely universal energy must have certain an individual "vibes" for us to listen to it and act accordingly?

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#33 RavensClaw

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Posted 01 July 2007 - 03:35 PM

Ok I've had some more time to think, and thanks to the honesty and views expressed here I think its safe to say the following.

1. To be a witch you should have a working knowledge of both the light and dark within.

2. Negative/dark energy can be used to have positive effects.

3. Trying to simplify cityscapes and nature as dark and light is dumb ass.

4. If you are very empathic, don't try using energies that have been tainted by many individuals.

Just out of curiosity if your not that emapthic could city energy be used successfully?

5. Nature is nature, no matter where you are, if you dig deep enough you'll find it.

OK thats where I'm up to.

Just another thought. I realise that many of you are re-constructionalists with regard to your tradition. This is great if you live in a similar environment to which the original practioners did. If like me you live in a town of 160,000 + people, where we don't live in the environment as our ancestors did, how would you practice your craft?

Cheers,

RC

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#34 Leigh

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Posted 01 July 2007 - 04:31 PM

Yes I can see your point and agree, however, if you look at it from another point of view, each thought form itself is an energy and that thought energy can be manifested into a purpose for love, healing, hate, ie good and bad.


I suppose it would depend on how you define "thought form" (there are so many variables, I won't even begin to guess). Is it an energy unto itself or is the thought form the intent which gathers the energy?

Another example of "bad" energy is the same as bad vibes or negative vibes. Negative people will have a bad energy/vibe/aura around them - positive people usually have a good vibe/energy/aura, so for me I do see that energy itself can hold a purpose and is not always neutral...where thoughts and people's own energy are concerned anyway.


The last part there is where I'm going with this: "...energy itself can hold a purpose and is not always neutral...where thoughts and people's own energy are concerned anyway." Again, from my perspective, it is the individial's intent that gives energy it's drive.

No, I don't believe energy is always neutral, but energy in its raw form is. We can all draw on the same energy and have different outcomes, depending on our purpose.

Also, surely this is how we have our "sixth sense" and our intuition - surely universal energy must have certain an individual "vibes" for us to listen to it and act accordingly?


I believe our personal energy, the energy which we have attracted, built, and affected with our own being, draws to us other energies, which have their own influences and are in some degree of sync with our own. I believe this is where our intuition, our "sixth sense", draws information. How the information is interpretted depends on the individual's strengths and abilities.

This is a wonderful discussion and I hope it is understood I don't claim to have all the answers. This is merely my personal take.

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#35 RavensClaw

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Posted 01 July 2007 - 05:04 PM

Some interesting points there Leigh. Maybe I'm taking this whole city-nature thing the wrong way.

If we look past it as suggest, there is energy. It's a matter how your percieve energy, and use it that differs. I think then, maybe its down to the individual and the way they percieve different energies. Break them down into an order their brains understand, how they then handle this energy and reshape it into their intent, that makes the difference.

That people who live in cities and enjoy it are in some way able to break down the energy, sifting through the confusion that humanity has left on that energy, and draws on specifics, like similar energies to there own or closest to their intent. Pollution filters if you like, maybe its as a result of constantly being bombarded by this energy.

Were as someone prefering a quieter more rural setting is that finely tuned, without the need for polution filters, that they can pick up a more refined form of energy. I suppose it would be like someone wearing a mike and head phones recording minut sounds being thrust into a nightclub. Instant pain.

This is just a thought, nothing more. Just trying to make sense of it.

RC

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#36 Leigh

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Posted 01 July 2007 - 05:46 PM

That people who live in cities and enjoy it are in some way able to break down the energy, sifting through the confusion that humanity has left on that energy, and draws on specifics, like similar energies to there own or closest to their intent. Pollution filters if you like, maybe its as a result of constantly being bombarded by this energy.

Were as someone prefering a quieter more rural setting is that finely tuned, without the need for polution filters, that they can pick up a more refined form of energy. I suppose it would be like someone wearing a mike and head phones recording minut sounds being thrust into a nightclub. Instant pain.


Certainly. We are all unique to our perspectives, experiences, and preferences -- nothing in nature is cookie-cutter, and that includes the use of magic.

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#37 RavensClaw

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Posted 01 July 2007 - 05:58 PM

Cool, its been a bit hard to express my point of view over the last few days and understand orther peoples...... been plagued with blinding headaches.

I think maybe that I should concentrate more on being a witch than argure the metaphysical finer points, alll of witch mean zip in the greater scheme of things. It's action that count although I do love a great debate, as well as talking about the metaphysical working of life, death and the universe.

Thanks again for all the great points of view shared so far :D

RC

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#38 Leigh

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Posted 01 July 2007 - 06:35 PM

I think maybe that I should concentrate more on being a witch than argure the metaphysical finer points, alll of witch mean zip in the greater scheme of things. It's action that count although I do love a great debate, as well as talking about the metaphysical working of life, death and the universe.


Discussions are a great way to open your mind to possibilities.
I avoid arguements, which is just one side trying to convince another they are wrong.

You brought a great topic to the table.

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#39 AnjelWolf

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Posted 01 July 2007 - 07:13 PM

Naw you kidding??? Open discussions such as these are what makes this forum top notch in the field of witchcraft forums. Don't second guess the benefit of these topics hun...they are not only thought provoking but educational as well.
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#40 RavensClaw

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Posted 01 July 2007 - 08:03 PM

Oh it's just these bloody head aches, nothing I can do gets rid of them. Makes discussions very dificult. Affects my mood severly as well.

I agree, its through discussions (not arguements) like these, that people like me with no coven or teachers able to learn from, have an opportunity to learn a form of witchcraft, that although not purely traditional, is a very functional and legitimate form of the craft.

I admit that the whole point to this discussion was to take my understanding of the 'drakness within' forward. It split into three very distinct threads, the first is the interplay between universal light and dark and the importance it has in traditional witchcraft. The second is the use of energies and spirits within a city scape as opposed to a more natural setting and the problems this brings. The third and final thread is that of the fundamental energies which form the universe and how these can be manipulate, pecieved and explained in a metaphysical sense.

I have accomplished that which I had sought, I frank, open and educated debate from which I could draw and expand on my own perception of the topics discussed.

That said, this topic is far from over and I look forward to the posts that will follow.

RC

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