
Traditional Witchcraft
#61
Posted 11 October 2015 - 11:24 AM
#62
Posted 11 October 2015 - 12:42 PM
M
#63
Posted 11 October 2015 - 03:33 PM
Sorry to revive a very old thread, but I can't understand this bit
"I don't believe that our future has been laid out for us... Free will is also not believed in..."
Surely if you don't believe in free will, ie that you can, within the limitations of the present, act as you wish, that is the same as saying that the future is laid out. Free will is the opposite of fate, so to disbelieve in one surely means the belief in the other? Can someone explain what I'm not understanding?
Aside from this confusion, it was a great and informative post, much appreciated and needed!
I cannot see inside your mind, Forester. Maybe this might help.
Free Will: Make a left turn - You live.
Make a right turn - You die in a head on collision.
The future is ever- changing depending on what we do presently. Left or Right turn.
Take Death for example: We are all Fated to die, however Free Will exists.... until 'fate' steps in.
Edited by Nikki, 11 October 2015 - 03:37 PM.
The difference between Medicine and Poison is the Dose.
I Love you as certain Dark Things are to be Loved,
In Secret, Between the Shadow and the Soul.
- Pablo Neruda
#64
Posted 05 December 2015 - 11:02 PM
I would say it is bendable and some things more so than others. In this case you may have been fated to collapse and die temporarily so to speak, but what could have been permanent death was thwarted by CPR. Now was that luck? Was it someone's protection spell looking out for you? Were their other forces helping your spirit not leave your body? Their are literally infinite possibilities. Infinite opportunities to change an outcome. And free will seems to rule the day. Or does it? Was everything aligned just so that you didn't die because it "wasn't your time"- a.k.a. Fate. I tend to think there are so many factors at play below the tip of the iceberg that we can observe that it is to a degree unknowable.
I'm going with Yes, both. When all factors seem to indicate one thing should have happened but something else does- that tends to look like fate, and I think sometimes is. But, I strongly believe free will is dominate most of the time. Hell as with the above example everything could appear to be pushing events one direction yet the result is a surprise and it still not be fate- it COULD be that an ancestor or some other factor intervened on your behalf- which is again- free will.
...From ev’ry depth of good and ill , The mystery which binds me still...— Poe
#65
Posted 06 December 2015 - 02:04 PM
I also think that there can be many 'exit points' along the paths we walk. Times when Death comes a knocking but we have the choice to stay or go. It can be as simple as putting down the razor blade and calling a friend instead (was that a spirit or a nudge that perhaps, it wasn't time?) Or as dramatic as a bunch of doctor celebrating 'it's a miracle - we don't have a medical/scientific explanation'. That's obviously not the entire scale, just a couple examples.
The CPR thing - every high schooler in the states is taught CPR. The Red Cross holds class after class. They really do go out of their way to make sure that as many people as possible know how to do it. People can even fake it just from watching tv. If there is anyone around when a person falls over dead - I think the chances are greater that someone in the monkey gallery does know CPR than not.
These are huge topics within themselves - fate, death, rebirth, and there is no one single point of view under the heading of Trad Craft.
#66
Posted 06 December 2015 - 05:42 PM
M
#67
Posted 06 December 2015 - 05:50 PM
To me, the idea of many Exit Points during ones lifetime is a very profound one.
Many years ago I had a vision that taught me : In order to actually die (past the point of No Return) one's mind, body and soul must be in 100% agreement.
Without the complete consent of all 3 (mind, body; soul) ... the 'struggle' between life and death occurs... until an 'agreement' is made.
Personally, I didn't expect this' idea' to stand-the- test-of-time, but it has, so far.
The difference between Medicine and Poison is the Dose.
I Love you as certain Dark Things are to be Loved,
In Secret, Between the Shadow and the Soul.
- Pablo Neruda
#68
Posted 06 December 2015 - 06:08 PM
#69
Posted 06 December 2015 - 06:34 PM
The difference between Medicine and Poison is the Dose.
I Love you as certain Dark Things are to be Loved,
In Secret, Between the Shadow and the Soul.
- Pablo Neruda
#70
Posted 07 December 2015 - 12:14 AM
Edited by Oroboros, 07 December 2015 - 01:52 AM.
...From ev’ry depth of good and ill , The mystery which binds me still...— Poe
#71
Posted 07 December 2015 - 02:16 PM
I was using the CPR thing as an example to illustrate a point
I wasn't.
It's one of the very few things that bring people back from the dead. And sometimes, it's still a choice, in the end.
#72
Posted 10 May 2016 - 09:10 PM
Thank you. Just thank you. Most of this I've felt, other parts I've learned and some of it I'll chew on. This is likely the most concise description and explanation I've seen to this point. So, again, thank you.
#73
Posted 13 March 2017 - 01:41 PM
#74
Posted 19 September 2017 - 01:21 AM
Bumping for the new members, enjoy!
Some are born to sweet delight,
Some are born to endless night.
(Fragments from "Auguries of Innocence") William Blake
#75
Guest_SorcererSupreme_*
Posted 19 September 2017 - 05:45 PM
Thanks for the book references.
I've always loved astral projection and am constantly in search of new material.
#76
Posted 22 July 2018 - 08:12 PM
Great post, very informative and resonated with me in a big way... I'm a big believer in the dual nature of magic and forces in general-- you can't have light without darkness, creation without destruction, or positive without negative. It's all about keeping the balance, as far as I can see. And sometimes, people need to be taught a lesson. I really liked how straightforward and clear your post was. Thank you!
#77
Posted 10 August 2019 - 03:07 PM
My thought processes on this subject are hard to put into words, so I apologize if I seem to be rambling. I learn and live a lot of my life based on the phrase “what if...”
For example, “what if time really is fluid and it’s possible for us to function outside of its flow?” That question lead me to the belief that the times when I see or sense my ancestors around me, may be when they were astrally projecting from their position in the time line and came to my current reality for a brief time.
Going further on that supposition, I believe it is possible for us to access all of our incarnations as we need them to learn and to grow.
As witches we have a responsibility to the power we have. Not a responsibility to the concepts of good or evil but a responsibility to use what we have. I’ve been in a situation where by my choice I suppressed my magic and it almost killed me. To me, there is nothing worse than denying who and what we are and refusing to use what we have.
Since I am an animist, I don’t believe in karma the way it is taught by most. Karma is not a sentient being, so therefore it is not a “bitch” it is not out to get you and it does not require you to make good on some sort of debt you owe. Karma, although I don’t usually use that term, is nothing more than a principle of nature. You grow what you plant. Or to paraphrase one of Newton’s laws, there is a reaction to everything we do. It’s the natural ebb and flow of the Universe though, it’s not some separate force bent on punishing us for “wrongdoing.”
Those are just some of my musings on some of the subjects brought up in this thread.
#78
Posted 25 September 2019 - 09:23 PM
Interesting post and lots of interesting discussion
#79
Posted 29 September 2019 - 06:54 AM
#80
Posted 07 November 2019 - 11:58 PM
Without the complete consent of all 3 (mind, body; soul) ... the 'struggle' between life and death occurs... until an 'agreement' is made.
Out of curiosity, how would this approach be used in regards to ghosts? Would you consider this type of existence to be a form of struggle occuring?
This topic of fate is something I'm quite interested/fascinated by but haven't really formed a solid belief/opinion about.
Fyi:
I've been a member for a while now but am a lurker type naturally (strong hermit tendencies lol). Just thought maybe I should mention that for netiquette purposes.