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Universal Energy or God


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#41 Guest_kales_*

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Posted 02 November 2007 - 02:46 PM

Roger thank you for this link and your views. I love hearing about this subject but not too many people are willing to come forward and say anything about it. I could literally sit and listen for hours and hours about what "God" means to each individual.

I am always very open on this subject and crave to absorb as much information as I can. My views change all the time and when I am enlightened by something that fits better than my current thought then I have no problem in embracing it.

I can fully relate to and even practise in my daily life what was written on that webiste.

"Our Anglo-Saxon ancestors believed in a universe where lines of power ran through the earth, spirits inhabited the trees, streams and stones, and where magicians were able to look into the future through the mysterious power of runes"

This is a Shamanic way of thinking and one that I personally feel very attuned to. Myself and Brian have been searching for a good leyline website or book which covers Europe as well as the UK, but its damn hard to find anything decent!! I could get out there myself with a dowsing stick I guess LOL .. I can just see my neighbours now!! HAHA

Would you consider this "Wryd" as actually "God" though or just a Shamanic way of connecting with the Divine? Either way, connecting on this level certainly works for me and this is exactly what my workshop (that I am setting up with my Shamanic friend in Germany) will be teaching to our Catholic local villagers in the coming year!

However, my initial question (or rather rambling thoughts) was more about "What" is the Divine, rather than a way of working to attain Nirvana.

Wow, what a good thread, so much information to take in! I would agree totally with the majority of what you've all said, and the rest has definately given me things to think about and consider.

My question would be: what is the majority opinion of origin? Say at one point the universe was nothing, then what created the universe and universal energy? Furthermore, the way nature progressed over the millions of years, would you say that was all by chance? or according to a giant plan? and if so, who or what made the plan and implements it?

I think Perranporth in Cornwall has good leyline if you ever pass that way Sandy. And very good on the 6am post, I would have fallen asleep on the keyboard, lol.

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#42 Guest_Nightwalker_*

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Posted 02 November 2007 - 07:53 PM

My question would be: what is the majority opinion of origin? Say at one point the universe was nothing, then what created the universe and universal energy? Furthermore, the way nature progressed over the millions of years, would you say that was all by chance? or according to a giant plan? and if so, who or what made the plan and implements it?


That may well be just a bit to much for our current minds in the evolution of human kind to grasp ! you need to ask these questions on the astral and you may well be made enlightened a bit more, i find i cannot explain in words the "Big picture" its just a knowing that i belong to all things, like the whole universe is a living aware thing!

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#43 Sandy

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Posted 02 November 2007 - 08:59 PM

wow this is getting heavy. I believe the Universal Energy has always been there - the solar system is just that. I believe that when a star explodes and can form a planet, the universal energy can start off life on that planet from the energy created from the explosion, the life created then feeds from the universal energy.

Its a bit like what came first the chicken or the egg haha :)

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#44 Guest_kales_*

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Posted 02 November 2007 - 10:50 PM

Yeah soz about that, maybe I've spent too much time walking through the woods and the air's got to me, lol. :)

Roll-on the headache pills! hehe

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#45 Guest_Hel26_*

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Posted 03 November 2007 - 03:02 AM

I like this topic it makes you think and wonder. Mostly because it is a hard issue for modern witches of any mode or path, where we’re given—unlike most other faiths—such an intimate relationship with the Divine and act as our own clergy. It’s a topic where witches of various paths tend to disagree. Firstly though I apologize for not having read every reply to this thread ... I just wanted to lay out my blurb before I go to bed.

In some branches of traditional craft such as those that fall under what could be called Luceferian and Noctoferian traditions (I should mention that this is from my brief encounters with practitioners who claimed to be of those paths) there is somewhat of a belief that Angels are a kind of God-form. In a lot of legends ancient people speak of actual beings/angles/gods that descended upon earth and taught man things such as blacksmithing, horticulture, geomancy, astrology, magik etc. Also that they intermingled and bread with human women (like the fallen angels mentioned in the Bible). And it was mentioned that witches and priests or people who could create magik "know things" came from part of that bloodline and retained that knowledge. And today there are still many native religions that believe their gods to be very corporeal and real beings in and of themselves and not simply vague forms of our own psyche and each of their gods has a specific trade or role. But weather or not beings actually taught man these things and this is factual or metaphor for something deeper or inexpressible I don’t know. Weather magik folk carry some sort of blood line is quite arguable and at the end of the day probably won’t get you anywhere even if you do believe it. It’s like saying that you can trace your lineage back to the original four kings of Ireland. That and 20 p won’t even get ya a cup of coffee. Like was once pointed out to me, if it were the case after however many thousands of years or eons of time, wouldn’t that weaken any supposed bloodline? (I promise this ties in to the topic somewhere and I apologize for the rambling).

So some traditionalists believe their gods to be singular figures. Others believe, more or less, that we’re experiencing the same thing only from different perspectives. A few people have made the point that Deity, The Divine, speaks to us personally from within for whatever we need to learn or gain from the experience. I believe this is very true. While I also believe that, for example, the goddess Moriganna is not simply another aspect of The Lady/Great Goddess, and neither is Briggita, but rather individual powers and identities--different threads of fate. Although a thread of fate may be known to more than one peoples and therefor have different names depending on the culture. However, they do seem to express themselves personally and uniquely to each individual who either chooses to contact them or ends up crossing their path (or does both at once). I’ve also been told that The Gods or Higher Energies are more aware of you than you ever are of them in our mortal state (where we see so little of the whole picture), so this must mean that contact with Deity begins within as we and all things ever thought, created or dreamed are connected in some un-knowable way and essentially made of the same stuff.

But in our guessing and human need to name and label things and thus making it fit into our reality everyone seems to arrive at the same conclusion. We’re all energy, we’re all made of stardust. Physical matter is energy like spiritual energy only at different vibrations. all things are energy in the end there are just different kinds. Also, if there are enlightened beings—such as gods or angels—would they retain the same sort of ego that humans have which divides us from one another and gives us a false sense of separation from each other and all things? Or would they be in connection and more ‘at one’ with the source of all life that is all things--that unknowable source? Thereby giving up or putting aside that thing many of us strive to overcome or at least master, that thing which can sometimes separate us and cause us to see only our personal section of the picture

In the end, what I’m saying is, a witch is a sorcerer someone who wields the powers of the source. End of. Where you choose to go from there is up to you and the beliefs you discover to be true.

PS I hope this had something to do with the topic and made sense and wasn’t complete twaddle and I hope I didn’t come across as a complete idiot:eek: I don’t usually feel comfortable with posting in forums but since it’s policy to give your two cents that’s what I’m doing:D Take care everybody.

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#46 Guest_thorn_*

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Posted 02 March 2008 - 12:18 AM

Hmmm. This is a very interesting thread.

I don't believe that there is a god or goddess at all. I mean, not one who is aware of things or has any control at all over what happened or happens. There are spirits, but there is no single life force that controls everything. I don't believe in the existence of a creator. I suppose that to me, the closest thing to a god is nature itself, and I don't see it as being sentient at all.

I believe that we have souls and I believe that there is a lot of energy in the world but I really can't (never could) make myself believe in gods and whatnot. At least not the conventional definition of god.

Witchcraft was never taught as a religion to me, as much as it was taught as a way of life. You sort of... manipulate the energy that is around you. I was never taught anything about talking to god or anything like that. Gods and goddesses were explained and taught but together with cultural history and very much in a "just for reference" way. None of the rituals and spells and charms that I learned included them; they refer to spirits but not gods.

Argh, I'm not sure if I'm making sense. It's really difficult to explain. Sorry if I'm not being clear.

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#47 Guest_Phoenixahi_*

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Posted 02 March 2008 - 06:32 AM

I haven't read all the posts in this very interesting thread and it is something that I have pondered over for quite some time

I believe that as humans, most have to give identity to things to help indentify with it , which is where all the names for the various deities, gods, goddess, angels, and the like come from for the universal energies around us (IMHO)

In the past I have never really called on various 'named' deities because nothing called to me and it used to worry me that I wasn't fitting in. One dude told me that I just HADDDD too name the energies that I tried to invite into my magical space! boyyy did that not sit well with me at all :grind:

so then in typical Phoenix form, I pondered some more for a year or two :D and then had a wonderful walk out amongst nature, and then it occurred to me !

In nature there are things masculine and feminine and that was most likely true in the grand scale within the universe! To keep with humanity, and our desires, deities were perhaps developed over the years to work with and dependent on what work was needed, they were given definite characteristics or personality ;) hence why we have a god of war, goddess of fertility (for example) with their various names dependent on culture !

within the universal energies - something that I truly do not believe that humans can grasp in totality as it is just too VAST - parts of those energies are masculine/feminine and now have been given personality traits :D


sooooo in this wonderful journey of mine , I do currently call on named entities and you most likely wonder why - well in a nutshell , it helps me focus , and through that focus I personally can enhance the magical energy I am trying to create!

right or wrong? dunno - but for now it works for me, maybe in my future I wont feel the need to do it - but for now - it is kinda fun feeling the various personalities and energies that is within the universal energies

hmm are the universal energies a lifeform? is it sentient HAHAHAHAHA yet another thought that Ill touch on another time perhaps

:thanks: for listening to my ramble

very interesting thread !! On my days off Ill catch up and read it all

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#48 Loona Wynd

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Posted 12 March 2008 - 02:06 PM

I don't know where to start on my reply to this topic, so I'm going to do my best to put things in order and hope you can understand where I am coming from. So, so here goes...

This is actually something I think about a lot. My mind is always pondering who and what deities are, and why there are so many different views out there. One thing I can say is that I don't think there are any "wrong" views out there. As has been said I believe that deity will reveal it's self to each person as they can best understand it. That being said I personally feel that every deity is a real being on the astral or other worlds. They are beings of energy that can and do focus on specific areas of power.

In many cases these deities have names. Hellenic pagans have the Greek Gods, and according to some Gaia, is the actual earth. From her all things were born. That's a great view, and one I shared for a long time, but not any more. Regardless to the Greeks and some modern day pagans their deities are real beings. They may or may not have physical forms, but they are real and they are powerful.

Myself, I do work with some of the Greek Deities. That's where my start in paganism came from. Yet I don't worship them. I work with them and their energy towards goals and desires. I may do a small ritual of thanks to them, but I don't work for them. I work with them. I respect them as spirits and beings. That doesn't mean I wont tap into their energy for needs and desires. It just means I don't "worship" them. I do honor and respect them and may hold rituals, but it's not of bowing down to them. It's of a working relationship.

On that note I do consider myself a priestess in some was. I hold rituals in honor of deities as a thank you. It's not like I am bowing down before them and "preaching". Its more of a "Ok I'm here, and I want to work with you. Teach me". My rituals dedicated to deities is about communication. I do celebrate holidays, but it's an expression of my work with them and not for them. I don't think I have to work specific rites to get their help. I do it because I want to honor them for what they are, and what they do.

In general I believe that in the beginning there was one almighty source of it all. This source created the universe. I call it "great spirit". This spirit started all life and from this spirit comes all life energy. Though this spirit wanted order with all the energy so he created two other spirits a male and a female. From them all other deities were born.

When a person is born the Great and unknowable Great Spirit (as his power and being is so great) gives some of his life energy to the person or creature born. Inside us all is a divine spark. Our everlasting soul as it were. So we are all connected to deity, and we all work with spirit. In the end the Great Spirit and it's children are mystery. It's up to every one toi find their own meaning of deity and their own way of working with that spirit energy.

Because we are all connected through the great spirit, we can work magic. Spirit's gift to us all is the ability to sense and work with spirit energy. Spirit trusts us to find our own way in the world, and find out own truths. That's why what works for some might not work for another. Personal expolration and discovery is what witchcraft is about to me.

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#49 Guest_Tiger Lady_*

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Posted 14 May 2008 - 01:21 AM

Droghon, I like the way you worded this - its pretty much what I've been trying to say for a while now.

NO, we make our own realities, we perceive things individually and what is real to you or I may not be real for someone else .. GOOD, it'd be a bloody boring world and life if we all perceived things exactly the same way.


I think we have a limited way to perceive most anything and we use our on bodies and how they work in that perception. Say for instance - male and female plugs. We know that you can make a good connection by inserting on thing into another. We know this because that's how our own bodies work. I know, I know a weird example. But if you look at many of our inventions they mimic the way our own bodies work - this is what we know best.

It is the same for our knowledge of gods and goddesses. We project in our minds what a god and goddess should look like and be of course named. I like names - it helps me put a face on justice, earth mother, death, birth, animal spirits and all the other fasciates that I see in the gods and goddesses whether they are one energy (I'm an energy sort of gal) with multiple personalities or separate etc.... It doesn't really matter to me in the end because there's no possible way for me to know the answer. I do think that if there is a higher being then it is something our minds cannot comprehend with our own definitions or terms.

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#50 Guest_Tiger Lady_*

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Posted 14 May 2008 - 01:22 AM

I should note that this is a very hard topic to put into words. Wow....
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#51 Guest_Bean Sprite_*

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Posted 15 May 2008 - 02:52 PM

I can agree with that.
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#52 Guest_Landieth_*

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Posted 16 June 2008 - 03:59 AM

Hmm... I'd have to say I agree with the idea of universal energy AND god-forms. I believe there are many aspects of energy and nature. I also believe that we can call on those different aspects apart from others, and in manifestation, they take form in what we grew up holding high above everything else and what our imaginations can percieve.

I mean, that's just my way of reasoning. That's how I explain ancient cultures with dieties that resembled half man-half beast..

And I will even take it a step further. I, myself, experience sight of universal energy manifesting in certain people. This is a trait that I GUESS runs in my family, because my grandmother sees this too at times.

When someone caries a strong positive energy around them, I sometimes see the faint lines of wings around the person.

When someone follows a very negative way, and is surrounded and drowning themselves in negative energy.. well, if I look at them their face will usually distort to something ugly, and faint lines of horns will show.

(It can also mean other things, depending on the person, but that doesn't go along with this topic..)

So I do believe that universal energy exists, but that it has very many aspects, and that it shows itself to us in ways we can percieve it. Therefore, god-forms and manifestations in everyday life such as signs, etc..

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#53 Guest_pickbeans_*

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Posted 07 August 2008 - 10:58 PM

I haven't read all the posts in this very interesting thread and it is something that I have pondered over for quite some time

I believe that as humans, most have to give identity to things to help indentify with it , which is where all the names for the various deities, gods, goddess, angels, and the like come from for the universal energies around us (IMHO)

In the past I have never really called on various 'named' deities because nothing called to me and it used to worry me that I wasn't fitting in. One dude told me that I just HADDDD too name the energies that I tried to invite into my magical space! boyyy did that not sit well with me at all :grind:

so then in typical Phoenix form, I pondered some more for a year or two :D and then had a wonderful walk out amongst nature, and then it occurred to me !

In nature there are things masculine and feminine and that was most likely true in the grand scale within the universe! To keep with humanity, and our desires, deities were perhaps developed over the years to work with and dependent on what work was needed, they were given definite characteristics or personality ;) hence why we have a god of war, goddess of fertility (for example) with their various names dependent on culture !

within the universal energies - something that I truly do not believe that humans can grasp in totality as it is just too VAST - parts of those energies are masculine/feminine and now have been given personality traits :D


sooooo in this wonderful journey of mine , I do currently call on named entities and you most likely wonder why - well in a nutshell , it helps me focus , and through that focus I personally can enhance the magical energy I am trying to create!

right or wrong? dunno - but for now it works for me, maybe in my future I wont feel the need to do it - but for now - it is kinda fun feeling the various personalities and energies that is within the universal energies

hmm are the universal energies a lifeform? is it sentient HAHAHAHAHA yet another thought that Ill touch on another time perhaps

:thanks: for listening to my ramble

very interesting thread !! On my days off Ill catch up and read it all



OK...

I've been reading this thread with great enthusiasm, and this is where I have to stop and put in my two cents.

Your post, Phoenixahi, has stuck out the most for me, and your thoughts/beliefs are the ones I can most relate to at my current stage in life.

The path I'm on right now is a very confusing one for me. Since I took to the craft 14 or so years ago, I have not believed in sentient gods. I have, however, placed names and faces on them, and even personalities. Cerridwen and Cernunnos.

My path took a 90-degree turn recently when I veered away from Wicca. I guess I'm still in the "deprogramming mode", because I still feel a strong urge to name the powers that I call on (or maybe that just makes me human, who knows?). I mean, I don't think that those powers are in any way sentient, and for the time being I've simply referred to it as the Universal Construct... the fabric of the cosmos, if you will.

My question to you is... if you share the same views as myself (and it appears as though you do)... what do you call those powers? If not Pan/Diana or Cerridwen/Cernunnos... then what??

Maybe that is just something I need to steer away from a little harder: the "naming of the power"... but to be quite honest, it makes me feel... "complete" inside if I have a name for those powers.

I hope some of this makes some sense to some others here... I think I'm at a very difficult time on my journey, and I hope someone can help shed some light onto my thoughts.

Amos

Edited by pickbeans, 08 August 2008 - 12:01 AM.

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#54 Grymdycche

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Posted 07 August 2008 - 11:50 PM

Wow, a deep profound thread that I missed? How'd that happen? ;) hehe

I'll just say I'm not a big fan of personification, but on the other hand I recognize it definitely has it's uses.
I tend to think more in terms of a universal energy though.
Or - perhaps something in-between that we aren't even capable of comprehending or recognizing as "intelligent" or "sentient", but may actually be more advanced, in a "coming full circle" sorta way. Wow, that was obtuse..

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#55 Raina

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Posted 08 August 2008 - 03:17 AM

I believe in a Universal energy and deities. For many years I considered all the different goddesses as aspects of the one goddess and all gods aspects of the one god.

A couple of years ago, though, events happened that changed my viewpoint and I'm now a polytheist and I see deities as separate entities.

Raina

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#56 Guest_pickbeans_*

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Posted 08 August 2008 - 03:34 AM

I guess I would consider myself a pantheist, since I consider "god" and the universal construct to be one and the same.
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#57 Michele

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Posted 10 August 2008 - 03:36 PM

Pick Beans:

Re what to call gods.... My mum calls me Daughter. My son calls me Mom (and occasionally Unfair-Bitch-From-Hell), my girlfriend calls me Lover and Friend, my employer calls me Paralegal...

Bottom line is, I have numerous names, but no matter what aspect/part of me you call, no matter what hat I'm wearing at the time, it doesn't change who I am.

I would call whatever gods you believe in by whatever name feels comfortable to you... If you believe they exist, then for you they do.

Personally I, also, was trained with gods. I happen to like gods. I don't worship them any more than I worship myself, for we are all of the same worth, I think. But I do respect and value them (as all beings) and I do try to give back. Whether they are indivduals or a universal energy or simply a part of a universal energy I've named to better understand it.... For me it no longer matters, only that I like them, they like me, and working with them works for me.... :-)

I have (what I call for lack of a better name) an "ancester alter." I don't work with my ancesters, per se, as I don't know what they are doing on the "otherside." I'm sure they would come if I called them, but they may have personal work to do, and I'm a very polite person lol. My working with them may change as I know more about them. I had a bad experience with one once, so for me it is easier to work with that whose energy I already recognize - gods. I respect and love my anscestors, but for now I don't specifically work with them.

Again, I am always growing, searching, and exploring so this may change.... I'll keep you posted ;-)

Edited by Michele, 10 August 2008 - 03:37 PM.
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#58 Ora

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Posted 04 October 2008 - 11:55 PM

Michele, I really like your idea that you have many titles but they do mean basically the same thing. Certainly, our image and relationship change with each different title. You, as a mother, is different than you, as a paralegal.

I think the force that I believe makes the world go around, if you will, can't possibly be the same as the Christians or many others worship as I just can't believe it would put up with the crap the other religions put on it.

I use my own ancestors. I don't believe that they have better things to do because they are off doing them, or at least the majority of their souls or spirit is off doing something better. The ones I use left a part of themselves within me either through time with me or some sort of connection shared through my parents, or a part of my family history. Since they are within me, they are specifically there to assist and guide.

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#59 Michele

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Posted 05 October 2008 - 12:41 AM

Ora- Hey. Due to something that recently happened, I have started working with my ancestors and land spirits, although deliberate connection on my part is new for me. Being a gardener I have always connected with land spirits, just never actually worked with them... it is a very interesting time in my life :-)
The part where you said (I should have quoted as I can't remember it exactly) that you can't imagine the christian god being the same "thing" "force" as some of the nicer gods:
I had one neighbor who worshiped a goddess who was said to be beautiful beyond belief, skin so soft one would fall in love just to touch it, a goddess whose scent she breathed out would bring men to their knees in worship. This same neighbor had a friend who worshiped a god who would rip you to shreds with a single swipe of his arms, his skin was so sharp he could not be touched without drawing blood. He was used constantly to pierce his foes and bring them to their knees.
Now, both my neighbor and her friend worshiped the same god/goddess. We would call it the rose. They just worshiped different parts of it. The friend had never seen a rose in bloom. The neighbor had always bought roses from a florist that had been de-thorned. Bottom line is, they were both right ;-)
I am not saying "all gods are one god" , or even that gods exist for everyone. I think people see what they want to see. What I am saying is that the christians worship a god they have defined, not necessarily what that god actually is.... either that or they have shaped that specific energy into the god they want, in which case anyone else could shape the energy into the god they want. Either way, the energy could, if one chose to believe in god-energies, be all things to all different types of people.
But then again, I LOVE to wax philosophical.. LOL.

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#60 Ora

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Posted 05 October 2008 - 01:04 AM

What a fascinating idea. A group shaping energy into a God they want. I love that idea. It makes sense to me. I do believe that no divine force is simply good or bad so I always thought how irritated an actual God would be with a lot of it's followers. However, if the followers came first and then, they created their own God then, well, I don't know whether that scares me more or makes me feel better.
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