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Satanism and Witchcraft

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Even though I do not consider myself a satanist, the "rules of the earth" and the "sins" very much ring a bell with me. Thank you for that article. It was quite an eye opener.

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I am digging the solopism rule. Its so true. I don't expect everyone to be me, to act like me or to be as reliable as me. However, the people who are reliable and gain my trust, I am loyal to them like no one else! The rest can find someone else take their flakiness!:rabbit:

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Its amazing how most' date=' including me make judgements and have our own opinions as to what other religions are, and have not actually gone in search of information to understand, and if they had I’m sure they would have the same realisation as I just did because of your article, WOW, who knew that they had normal idea’s, here many call us evil but have no understanding of what our belief system is… just something to remember, find out everything possible before making rash decisions! Thank you for that post, really gave me a different out look to Satanists. (although, I had a good giggle at some things):roflhard:[/color']

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Great article. I've always said that if I didn't do things in the nature I do, I would probably convert to Satanism, though it wouldn't be much of a change:P

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I see a whole lot of "me, myself, & I" integrated into this perspective.

 

Totality is the whole, & the "me" is just a particle of the "whole" concept.

 

I personally find this a narrow point of view. Projecting & being oneself (which is in itself pertinent) is a facet of the whole being.

 

Think about it....

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I know two individuals personally who are self-proclaimed satanists, and quite frankly I do not like either one of them. This may have more to do with them, than with their religious choice, but all the same, their description of other satanists and their behaviors and attitudes are not appealing to me. The fact is that these two people do not care about anyone, but themselves. Me, me, me, me . . . these guys are totally and wholely self-absorbed. I have my "I don't give a shit" days, too, but when I do it is usually me wishing that I didn't care so much for a just a little while. To truly not care about anyone EVER, but yourself is to me a terrible flaw in character. Being around these two people for even brief periods of time, left me literally sickened. As an empath, I can handle any type of emotion, but a sucking void filled with arrogance and contempt is just too much for me. To be fair, I haven't met every satanist in the world, so my perspective may be off. That is probably all of the qualification that I'll need to do; however, because most true satanists are not going to be offended by what I wrote here.

 

Jevne

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Hmmmm, while the article is interesting, I would have to believe in Satan in order to take any part of it seriously and I don't. To me, the belief in Satanism is simply a rebellion against the Catholic Church, nothing less and nothing more. But then, I don't subscribe to any religion basically because I believe they are all created equal, created to control the masses.

Edited by Brigid
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Hmmmm, while the article is interesting, I would have to believe in Satan in order to take any part of it seriously and I don't. To me, the belief in Satanism is simply a rebellion against the Catholic Church, nothing less and nothing more. But then, I don't subscribe to any religion basically because I believe they are all created equal, created to control the masses.

 

I agree with you 110% Brigid.

Jevne, I have meet only a few as well and got the same vibe from those that your describing. Who knows maybe we both just meet the wrong ones but it has put an impression of the belief in my mind.

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Before I even knew what paganism was and was looking to see what my beliefs matched with, I looked into and read the Satanic Bible. I thought a lot of it sat well with my mind, but I didn't like their "shock value" way of trying to upset X-tians.

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I'm amused by the few I've met who take delight in trying to shock pagans too.

And we're pretty unshockable, I like to think.

 

Still, it winds up a lot of pagans I know, who don't think satanists should be pigeonholed with pagans, Satan being a Christian concept.

 

Actually, this reminds me of the Discordians; could they be seen as a type of satanism as mentioned in the article? Now they reeeaaally piss off a lot of people lol.

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I don't class Satanism as a branch of Paganism. Not because of the whole "Satan is a Christian concept" thing cos I disagree with that (the devil is a Christian concept, Satan is not meant to be the devil in Satanism). The reason I don't class it as a branch though is because I believe Paganism covers earth and nature based systems, and Satanism is all about the self - almost to the point of being selfish really.

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Blackraven, you're quite right, sorry. Satan and the devil being separate things.

 

This is also why many Heathens don't use the label Pagan, as Heathenry isn't necessarily Earth or Nature based as a religion. But I digress, sorry!

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Sorry, just wanting to clarify something I should probably know by now; Satan and the devil - The devil is widely referred to in some circles of witchcraft and Hoodoo, and I take it this stems from the old Wood Devil of Teutonic legend? The devil, in many, many guises, appears with the name 'Devil' in Wales, England, the U.S etc, basically all places with Teutonic influence. He seems to be a mix of many tricksterish spirits/gods/what-have-you fom Europe (including, possibly, Legba from the ADTs, ie. the Man at the crossroads).

But Satan? Is that name Eastern, where/when does it come from? Is that not the Christian term for 'im what is reviled in Christian myth?

Edited by Thunorson
Waaay too much ale for a weekday

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Satan is a concept deriving from Christianity, and therefore is attached to Christianity. Satanism was not seen prior to Christianity, so therefore those such as Michael W. Ford using Lucifer as a synonym for Satan within Witchcraft can be seen definitely as a "neo" practitioner as the beliefs are definitely experimental and Lucifer traditionally had no connection to Christianity whatsoever as it didn't exist.

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Satan is a concept deriving from Christianity, and therefore is attached to Christianity.

 

That's not entirely true. Satan is actually the westernized spelling of Shaitan, pronounced pretty much the same way. Shaitan is of the djinn(I believe fire djinn if I remember correctly) or is what we call a genie, and djinn have been around in ancient arabic longer thn Christianity has been. If you don't know, djinn don't pop out of lamps and give you wishes. They're summoned and will give you what you want, but they take something in return, sort of a trade, though with djinn like Shaitan, you always get shafted with the trade in price. That's part of where selling or trading your soul to Satan comes from. Shaitan is also used in Islamic terms for a devil or demon, though the word orginally comes from arabic and means hidden.

 

Also, while there the idea of the Devil named Satan is mostly Christian, there's a universal theme that's been around since man had the idea of worshiping something, because like Newton put forth, for every action you have something equal, but the opposite. So if there's something completely good, then there has to be something completely evil, it could be said that evil was just given a name.

 

One more note, there are Satanists, that do believe that Satan is a true entity and the true God, creator of all. The believe Christianity to be a work of evil, turning people from the truth and shrouding them in fears and lies so that people never reach their true potential in things like sorcery and knowledge, and create a personal hell that damns their own souls even further hindering their spiritual development. They also believe that Satan was around first so therefore, Christianity was created to lead people away from the truth that is Satan, so it could be said that Christianity derives from Satan, not the other way around.

 

 

Lucifer traditionally had no connection to Christianity whatsoever as it didn't exist.

 

This is true, but to be exact, Lucifer doesn't have any connection with Christianity, except through bad translating(which the bible is full of). Satan is an angel, to some scholars, an arch angel in fact, and in original texts he is not referred to as Lucifer. He is referred to as being the light bearer, which Lucifer means but the angel was never called by name. In original texts he it is said the light bearer is cast down and God renames him Satan and now he gets to hover/fly over the abyss for all eternity. Unfortunately since the angel that became Satan was called the light bearer and Lucifer's name means that, the two were put together, thus tying them together just like they tied Jesus, God and the Holy Spirit all into being the same entity. So Satan is one person, the Devil is another, and Lucifer is someone else completely and has been framed all this time.

 

Sorry, this is one of my favourite subjects out there and I love to throw out this kind of info^_^ Hope someone found it interesting.

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Sorry, this is one of my favourite subjects out there and I love to throw out this kind of info^_^ Hope someone found it interesting.

 

I did, especially this part:

 

One more note, there are Satanists, that do believe that Satan is a true entity and the true God, creator of all. The believe Christianity to be a work of evil, turning people from the truth and shrouding them in fears and lies so that people never reach their true potential in things like sorcery and knowledge, and create a personal hell that damns their own souls even further hindering their spiritual development. They also believe that Satan was around first so therefore, Christianity was created to lead people away from the truth that is Satan, so it could be said that Christianity derives from Satan, not the other way around.

 

This type of belief among Satanists hadn't occurred to me, and I haven't studied it extensively so I hadn't run across it. Very interesting indeed.

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This type of belief among Satanists hadn't occurred to me, and I haven't studied it extensively so I hadn't run across it. Very interesting indeed.

 

Most of the information you find on Satanism now days, you're either going to find LeVey Satanism or Devil Worshiping. There's a couple different types, some more interesting in others. I grew up in an area that was over Christian zealous, and I got labeled a Satanist a lot, so I figured the best way to defend myself was through knowledge, though I did find I agree with LeVey Satanism a lot, lolz.

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That is very interesting! You seriously do learn something new everyday (well the first part I learned from). And for the second part, that's what I was trying to say, only in a bad way as I have a hard time explaining myself xD I read a lot about Lucifer's originality, especially Lucifer being a synonym for Venus and the bringer of light and therefore knowledge, etc. I was trying to say that because Satan is called the light bearer, many believe Lucifer to be synonymous with Satan in it's newest sense (the Christian meaning) instead of reading about Lucifer's past meaning and therefore Luciferian Witchcraft is now seen as a "left hand path."

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I know I just complained about people quoting huge amounts of text, but this post by o_O is good and speaks to some of the conversation about djinn. Besides, I thought it would be interesting to bump this thread anyway. :)

 

That's not entirely true. Satan is actually the westernized spelling of Shaitan, pronounced pretty much the same way. Shaitan is of the djinn(I believe fire djinn if I remember correctly) or is what we call a genie, and djinn have been around in ancient arabic longer thn Christianity has been. If you don't know, djinn don't pop out of lamps and give you wishes. They're summoned and will give you what you want, but they take something in return, sort of a trade, though with djinn like Shaitan, you always get shafted with the trade in price. That's part of where selling or trading your soul to Satan comes from. Shaitan is also used in Islamic terms for a devil or demon, though the word orginally comes from arabic and means hidden.

 

Also, while there the idea of the Devil named Satan is mostly Christian, there's a universal theme that's been around since man had the idea of worshiping something, because like Newton put forth, for every action you have something equal, but the opposite. So if there's something completely good, then there has to be something completely evil, it could be said that evil was just given a name.

 

One more note, there are Satanists, that do believe that Satan is a true entity and the true God, creator of all. The believe Christianity to be a work of evil, turning people from the truth and shrouding them in fears and lies so that people never reach their true potential in things like sorcery and knowledge, and create a personal hell that damns their own souls even further hindering their spiritual development. They also believe that Satan was around first so therefore, Christianity was created to lead people away from the truth that is Satan, so it could be said that Christianity derives from Satan, not the other way around.

 

This is true, but to be exact, Lucifer doesn't have any connection with Christianity, except through bad translating(which the bible is full of). Satan is an angel, to some scholars, an arch angel in fact, and in original texts he is not referred to as Lucifer. He is referred to as being the light bearer, which Lucifer means but the angel was never called by name. In original texts he it is said the light bearer is cast down and God renames him Satan and now he gets to hover/fly over the abyss for all eternity. Unfortunately since the angel that became Satan was called the light bearer and Lucifer's name means that, the two were put together, thus tying them together just like they tied Jesus, God and the Holy Spirit all into being the same entity. So Satan is one person, the Devil is another, and Lucifer is someone else completely and has been framed all this time.

 

Sorry, this is one of my favourite subjects out there and I love to throw out this kind of info^_^ Hope someone found it interesting.

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I know I just complained about people quoting huge amounts of text, but this post by o_O is good and speaks to some of the conversation about djinn. Besides, I thought it would be interesting to bump this thread anyway. :)

 

 

 

Dear Jevne,

 

 

I just wanted to clarify something: when I read about djinn in Islamic books, long time ago, I read that they live amongst people, unseen, and that they have children, marry etc just like we do (or not!) and that some are Muslim and some aren't and that they try to influence humans without being prompted to do so! That was how I saw it as well as how my ex saw it and he is from Palestine. That is also how Egyptians and Saudis see it, to my knowledge.

 

Maybe that is why I get the responses I get as people here may think I summon them but no, I do not. I try to chase them, suspecting their presence.

 

Kind regards,

 

Heks coffee.gif

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Maybe that is why I get the responses I get as people here may think I summon them but no, I do not. I try to chase them, suspecting their presence.

 

Kind regards,

 

Heks coffee.gif

 

I suspect that the others here are speaking in general terms, as am I. Based on what you have written in the forum, I did not get the impression that you have personally tried to summon them.

 

Though, it never hurts to ask.

 

J

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Julio Baroja provided an interesting insight. (Page 18 of The World of the Witches)

 

There were standard processes in both Greece and Rome to produce rain, control the weather, increase crops and livestock, heal the sick and determine the future. Beneficent magic was sanctioned and supported by the state when it was in the public interest.

 

There were perverse people who used magical techniques and spells for anti-social purposes. Some divinities in the ancient world could be propitiated to instigate and/or condone evil actions. Malefic magic thrived on this fact. There were evil witches long before Christianity was concocted, and they served pagan gods before Satan was theologically contrived.

 

I know Satanists who wouldn’t dream of hexing or cursing anybody. Their sole interest is acquiring knowledge and self-mastery to improve their lot in this world and the next.

 

Conversely, I know Trad Witches who wouldn’t hesitate to kill in their pursuit of material power and self-aggrandizement.

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That's not entirely true. Satan is actually the westernized spelling of Shaitan, pronounced pretty much the same way. Shaitan is of the djinn(I believe fire djinn if I remember correctly) or is what we call a genie, and djinn have been around in ancient arabic longer thn Christianity has been. If you don't know, djinn don't pop out of lamps and give you wishes. They're summoned and will give you what you want, but they take something in return, sort of a trade, though with djinn like Shaitan, you always get shafted with the trade in price. That's part of where selling or trading your soul to Satan comes from. Shaitan is also used in Islamic terms for a devil or demon, though the word orginally comes from arabic and means hidden.

 

So Satan is one person, the Devil is another, and Lucifer is someone else completely and has been framed all this time.

 

Sorry, this is one of my favourite subjects out there and I love to throw out this kind of info^_^ Hope someone found it interesting.

 

The first reference to Satan is in the Old Testament, so it's Jewish, technically. First mentioned in the book Chronicles 21:1, written at least a thousand years prior to the existence of Islam.

It means "the accuser", and his role originally seemed as a tool of god to test man. His role definitely evolved as the bible was written. Even Hell wasn't "invented" until after the Babylonian exile, prior, all dead souls went to sheol.

 

Shaitan is not technically Arabic, but Islamic; big difference... Islam of course came about roughly 600 years after Jesus's supposed time, although Shaitan is the equivalent to the fully evolved christian Satan.

Thus it would be the other way around, Shaitan would have been derived from Satan.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satan

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaitan

 

"Devil", deriving from latin "diabolic" (evil) is kind of a generic term, I thought, and as Christianity overran other pagan religions, their spirits and gods were "assimilated" and either lumped in as saints, or more frequently, considered faces of Satan (Cerunnos, Pan, Beelzeub, etc). Or in some cases, like the Assyrian wind deity, Pazuzu, just demons.

Agreed on the Lucifer translation screw-up.

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Screw up indeed....My understanding is... Lucifer derives from the Latin term lucem ferre and as we all know means the bringer, or bearer, of light." , in the Hebrew text the expression was by used by Isaiah to describe a Babylonian king before his death ,Hebrew passage reads "heleyl, ben shachar" which mean shining one, son of dawn...in the Septuagint it is translated as heosphoros, meaning Venus/morning star..(poor usage on Isaiahs part. lol) .. and it wasn;t until after St Jerome and his Latin Vulgate that Lucifer and Satan were equated. Dont really think this was Jeromes fault as more to the church and their shoddy associations. Side note, Lucifer goes back , before Romans to the Greeks.. Plato mentions the morning star in Timaeus.

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