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Is secrecy still important to you?


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#141 Anubha

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Posted 02 May 2017 - 09:16 PM

Secrecy is still important to me for various reasons;

 

1.) My ex-husband, who is on record as a cult member tried to use my former, fleeting interest in Wicca as a reason to take my children away from me. He also used this to turn people against me, saying I worshipped the devil and was trying to poison him. Fucking idiot.

 

2.) I don't hide my feelings well and when I am full-on enraged with someone, bad things often start happening to them. I have more control over this these days but people do notice sometimes and I wouldn't want to lose my job or be ostracized in other ways. Especially if people thought I was deliberately hexing them. Although, I have found the mystery around this quite useful.

 

3.) My two oldest children are skiddish of all things occult. I am confident in who I am at my age but still find it painful to have loved ones invalidate my experiences and beliefs. It's easier to keep most things to myself.


Edited by Anubha, 02 May 2017 - 09:46 PM.

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#142 witchinplainsight

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Posted 20 July 2017 - 11:27 AM

Good thread! I am not 'out' as a witch as it would be really frowned upon in my work where I live. I have my own study at home with a big cabinet where I keep my stuff. As our littlie gets bigger and can read I will have to decide about encryption but tbh there's a witchling in there waiting to get out so in some ways I would rather she could see stuff and ask questions. I'm not doing anything terribly dark, just learning the ropes at the minute so most of my notes are on books I've read, shamanic practice, and incense blends.

 

I would like to have somewhere to write more private notes on sigils etc - not sure what my husband would make of it all ^_^


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#143 kaenoir

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Posted 23 August 2017 - 10:11 PM

privacy is and always have been very important to me. i don’t believe its because i have anything to hide but because i have always preferred be solitude. my craft is very much a part of me. it’s a intimate and pleasant part of my being. i don’t need anyone poking holes in that or praying for my salvation. 

 

 

at the same time, my practice isn’t really hidden. most of my items and journals sit on a bookshelf or in a trunk so i think the VERY few people i allow into my home and personal space understand that i don’t like snoops and are mature enough not to go around touching things or sticking their noses in my business 


Edited by kaenoir, 20 January 2018 - 12:17 AM.

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#144 Tricycle

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Posted 25 August 2017 - 02:57 PM

I prefer generally not to tell too many people about my beliefs, and especially not about the ins and outs of my practice. Except with my friend who is also trad, but even then, I don't get into specifics about spells, and neither does she. We talk about ingredients we like, or about the intentions of our spells, but not exactly how we did it. I'm sure if one of us was really stumped, we would probably brainstorm together the ins and outs, though. We also talk about how we figure out what the spell will be.

 

As for anyone else who doesn't know, I never lie about it, but I'm very good at talking 'around' it, if you know what I mean. I mentioned in another thread about my lovely Christian friend who's noticed a change and is trying to ask me what I am. There are lots of, 'what's changed?' questions. To which I ask, 'what do you mean?' which is a fair question, really! If I knew exactly which part she felt had changed, I could just talk around that bit :D

 

Most people see me as a nature lover, many would suspect I'm a pagan (which I class myself as, also), and I'm sure plenty would just dismiss some of my quirks as new-agey-ness. I'm more than happy to project a new age vibe if there's some aspect of myself that I couldn't hide, such as my incense in the house, or any crystals I might end up using or wearing. People know I'm a big fan of meditation, and I think they see that more as a health kick, again, I'm happy to let them, think that's as far as it goes. I mean, I did initially start meditation due to doctor's orders, and it does do wonders for my health. But anyone who doesn't know I'm on the trad path, doesn't need to know my meditation goes way beyond that.

 

I thought I might give examples of talking around the questions. Let's say if someone asked if I'm wiccan (that hasn't happened, but it's a good example). I would answer honestly, 'no, wicca is definitely not my thing'. But, because not everyone knows about trad craft yet, I would expect most people, if given that answer, would assume, 'oh, she's not a witch, then.' So, I haven't lied at all, but I have given the impression that I'm also not a witch. Also, as mentioned above, answering a question with another question has proved helpful, but I wouldn't think it'd be useful to ask question after question in return, ad nauseum, because then I think it draws suspicion and people start wondering what you're hiding!

 

Another thing I've found that helps, is I might mention that I have different beliefs to other people, but I like to keep them to myself, because I don't want to convert anyone, and I don't like it when people force their beliefs on others. It's not a lie, it's 100% true of me. People usually respect that, and leave it alone, but they don't seem to feel as though I've acted overly defensive or aggressive.


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#145 Holdasown

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Posted 25 August 2017 - 06:30 PM

My paganism is out in my home and I don't hide it when asked. Most would contribute my picking up rocks, bones and stuff to that. Especially since I'm Heathen. Even things like cards, runes, herbs and stuff they can contribute to that. I don't ever use the word witch except with my husband and two best friends. No one around here would get that and while most overlook what they might call pagan stuff I like they would not be friendly to that word. So I have my god and ancestor altars out in the open but my witch altar is in the bedroom and tucked away. I hope one day to be out of town and in a place and can have a witchy shed on the property and do all my workings there. 


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#146 Faolana

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Posted 16 September 2017 - 02:19 AM

Overall I'm a really open person; I'll always answer any questions asked of me and make my feelings clear, but with my craft I feel so strongly in the opposite. And it's not from a moral/ethical standpoint... I've just always felt that talking about my craft may somehow weaken it, or me. I'm very secretive about my spells/rituals- what I use, how I do them, whether or not they're successful. I've just been taught that they can lose their power if you speak about them.

 

It's becoming something I've had to think about much more now because my husband is a witch and while I'm open with him in every way, it still makes me uncomfortable to talk about what I'm doing or working on or why I'm using a specific herb or tool.

 

This whole thread is fascinating and parts of the discussion ended up touching on mundane issues I'm currently confronting-  I am becoming very keenly aware of how we now live in a culture of "If it wasn't posted on social media, it didn't happen". My desire to not tear others down publicly is causing me hardship and I really resent it.


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#147 westofthemoon

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Posted 17 September 2017 - 05:11 PM

I wanted to update my post. My friends know and my husband knows, but now I have to even hide it from my husband. He found some book I was trying to get rid of and freaked out, claiming I was being "brainwashed by some book telling me what to do"(hmm, didn't think I owned any bibles). So now I have to hide my practice from him too--and tbh it's very hard. But that's a rant for another time.

So yes -- secrecy is still very important to me. I do not enjoy people trying to convert me, constantly asking me to hex their enemies, wanting me to do work for them for free (that's another thread), conflating me with a dippy Wiccan or pagan they know, judging my personal choices or telling me I'm Evil and that if I choose witchcraft over a relationship with them I'm selfish and "deserve what's coming to me". End rant!

I don't want to come out of the broom closet. I did that when I was a pagan (to my family & friends) and all it does is have all the xtians constantly praying for your soul.

Edited by westofthemoon, 17 September 2017 - 05:14 PM.

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#148 BeanSiFiain

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Posted 04 March 2018 - 03:51 PM

wow there are so many pages on this thread I can't get through it all and keep up with every point in here.

 

 

Hey, this thread has been quite interesting to me because recently, my Grandmother asked me to transcribe our teachings and traditions to paper (the tradition so far has always been passed down by word and workings).

Her reasoning was that times have changed. Women are in a different position than they were back in her day. There is little necessity to get married and have a family and with women having children later due to careers etc, there is no guarentee of daughters to pass the old ways onto.

Secrecy is not something we worry over. We tend to keep our practices to ourselves as there are still some people who fear what they don't understand and act upon their ignorance but if we are ever 'found out' we don't deny it. (Though it can have unexpected results. One of my Irish cousins is pestered for potions and love spells)

As for the teachings themselves, I don't think any of us is concerned about them being discovered and misused. Simply for the fact that the majority of the time, in the hands of a novice they're not going to work. (we very much treat our tradition as a craft that is learned as opposed to an inherent ability.)

This I love. Its an excellent point your grandmother made. As our society changes, the urgency to pass down wisdoms becomes fogged. we head into uncharted territory and may be unsure of its usefulness to others, or its practicality, or its safety, or whatever. I have no daughters, but I am still building my family. If I have a girl, I will pass this to her if she wants it, but in case she doesn't, I will save it for future daughters of my clan. I feel that tradition and ancestral practice is a force greater than the evolution of society. My family before me lost touch, and people have suffered unfulfilling, empty, fruitless lives in turn. 

 

During my beginning stages of learning the Craft, I was taught through the method of Poetic myth, when inquiring about why we learned that way the answer I was presented was interesting and pertains to the post. We learned through poetic myth for a number of reasons, a small one being secrecy - those without the eyes to see and the ears to hear would make neither yay nor nay of the teachings. However the biggest reasons where for lack of a better word protective of the individuals. They pertained to a certain level of practical application, they where just stories without the practical understanding of the forces and nature they present. Another is to allow the seeker to experience them within their own field of understanding, to create an archetypal personal extension to the mysteries themselves.

As far as my personal life and secrecy - I do not advertise my beliefs, and while I am not "out of the broom closet" as they say, my house is the exception. I enjoy the nature of the Witches cottage and my "castle" certainly expresses this. My original post was directed at the nature of Grimoires and their contents.

 

I absolutely love the use of poetry in a grimoire. as a descendant of Gaelic Celts, aesthetic and lingual beauty is tantamount to physical prowess on the field or in the bed. I usually just let the words spill onto the paper, often fluidly and mildly poetic, but hardly veiled. I think I will now make a note of using more poetic haze when keeping records.

 

 

I do have a question, and I haven't so far noticed anything about it:

 

Does anyone lock or "lock" their grimoire? and I don't mean to put it in something like a chest or armoire that locks. sometimes I worry my husband might think me crazy, like I've gone flaky on him or something, if he were to find some of my... journey notes. Perhaps I should find another way to channel my reflections?


Edited by BeanSiFiain, 04 March 2018 - 03:54 PM.

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#149 StJohn

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Posted 05 March 2018 - 12:27 AM

(Kinda cool that an 8 yr old topic is still relevant today.)

 

Secrecy is important to me. More for the aspect of privacy and just not dealing with too many people's questions than anything else. I'm not in an area where it's explicitly frowned upon, but people aren't as open as you'd like them to be, not to mention that while I've eschewed my old beliefs, the rest of my family hasn't. My mother took it pretty hard when I was excommunicated from our old group, and that was before I started practicing any craft in my home. My father is also pretty old school, and while he did come across some of my cards before I moved out, he never asked about them. Methinks the language barrier also kept him from realizing what he was looking at.

 

My fiance is aware and supportive (by supportive, I mean "stays out of my way about it"), but beyond that, I don't advertise it. I don't have any obvious jewelry, I don't talk about it randomly. I nod at other witches in passing and occasionally strike up conversations. 

 

Someday, when I have a child, I want to make this available to them. I saw some people mention encrypting or locking their books. Personally, my computers are incredibly close to me. All of them are easily identifiable as my own, and many times I've misplaced my laptops, only to have the mobiles find their way back to me (I'm not recommending losing your computers though, folks! I've lost them like, at work and such). I've found that I'm more inclined to work with/on my BoS when it's on a computer than when it's on paper. And keeping it in such a way allows me to access it from wherever I want. But because I have everything password protected, I'm not afraid that people will inadvertently come across it and read to their heart's content. But I also get to customize and add to it in ways that would be too cumbersome or almost impossible with a physical binder.


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#150 StJohn

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Posted 05 March 2018 - 12:31 AM

wow there are so many pages on this thread I can't get through it all and keep up with every point in here.

 

 

This I love. Its an excellent point your grandmother made. As our society changes, the urgency to pass down wisdoms becomes fogged. we head into uncharted territory and may be unsure of its usefulness to others, or its practicality, or its safety, or whatever. I have no daughters, but I am still building my family. If I have a girl, I will pass this to her if she wants it, but in case she doesn't, I will save it for future daughters of my clan. I feel that tradition and ancestral practice is a force greater than the evolution of society. My family before me lost touch, and people have suffered unfulfilling, empty, fruitless lives in turn. 

 

 

I absolutely love the use of poetry in a grimoire. as a descendant of Gaelic Celts, aesthetic and lingual beauty is tantamount to physical prowess on the field or in the bed. I usually just let the words spill onto the paper, often fluidly and mildly poetic, but hardly veiled. I think I will now make a note of using more poetic haze when keeping records.

 

 

I do have a question, and I haven't so far noticed anything about it:

 

Does anyone lock or "lock" their grimoire? and I don't mean to put it in something like a chest or armoire that locks. sometimes I worry my husband might think me crazy, like I've gone flaky on him or something, if he were to find some of my... journey notes. Perhaps I should find another way to channel my reflections?

 

If you're looking for something that's visually appealing, maybe moving into a bound journal with a lock on it may be a good idea. Otherwise, maybe just getting a small lockbox would be good enough. I have a wooden one (no lock on it in my case), painted black that I picked up on a trip to South America once. Something like that could work to be your safe place to deposit your notebooks.


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#151 BeanSiFiain

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Posted 05 March 2018 - 02:23 PM

If you're looking for something that's visually appealing, maybe moving into a bound journal with a lock on it may be a good idea. Otherwise, maybe just getting a small lockbox would be good enough. I have a wooden one (no lock on it in my case), painted black that I picked up on a trip to South America once. Something like that could work to be your safe place to deposit your notebooks.

 

Perhaps its best to keep it simple and pop it into a lock box. I thought about a bound journal but $$$

I think I should look more at the poetry idea. 

 

I dont worry much because my husband is an animist, and while he takes issue with some aspects of my study, he shares widely the same beliefs I do. With one kinda big exception: the craft. I mean, I practice witchcraft and I'm still a skeptic and an anti-mystic. Most of my practice is practical, and I don't actually refer to it as witchcraft out loud. But I am studying some practices that aren't quite sensible in the modern context, things you kinda can't take the mysticism out of, you can't make practical. 

 

---

Certain parts of the craft, I think, should be held in secrecy by true practitioners, like assault rifles should be. Wicca can have its "and it harm none" frilly practices, like a shotgun for a home invader, but the larger works should be a trial to obtain by (apprenticed or solitarily) trained practitioners, as the automatic weapon should be reserved for psychologically sound, ethical and moral, educated and practiced gunmen.


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#152 StJohn

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Posted 06 March 2018 - 06:54 PM

Perhaps its best to keep it simple and pop it into a lock box. I thought about a bound journal but $$$

I think I should look more at the poetry idea. 

 

I dont worry much because my husband is an animist, and while he takes issue with some aspects of my study, he shares widely the same beliefs I do. With one kinda big exception: the craft. I mean, I practice witchcraft and I'm still a skeptic and an anti-mystic. Most of my practice is practical, and I don't actually refer to it as witchcraft out loud. But I am studying some practices that aren't quite sensible in the modern context, things you kinda can't take the mysticism out of, you can't make practical. 

 

---

Certain parts of the craft, I think, should be held in secrecy by true practitioners, like assault rifles should be. Wicca can have its "and it harm none" frilly practices, like a shotgun for a home invader, but the larger works should be a trial to obtain by (apprenticed or solitarily) trained practitioners, as the automatic weapon should be reserved for psychologically sound, ethical and moral, educated and practiced gunmen.

 

But then "if it harms none" it would be an impractical shotgun. Just saying, a shotgun that can't harm anyone is literally just a super-soaker.  :lol_witch:

 

Prose sounds like a good idea for you, then. It wouldn't work for me because my poetry is very straightforward in its language, and depends more on rhythm (almost no rhyme). But if you're writing like the good oldies and using loads of references and symbolism that is unique to you, then that should be more than enough to hide in plain text.


Edited by StJohn, 06 March 2018 - 06:55 PM.

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#153 BeanSiFiain

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Posted 07 March 2018 - 07:01 PM

lol, good point on the shotgun. supersoaker? :P 

 

Sometimes I wish I knew others in the area, it would be hella interesting to see how others are keeping records, how their secrets stay secret. i think it would be n ice to be able to share a little secrecy now and again.

 

but perhaps not.


Edited by BeanSiFiain, 07 March 2018 - 07:01 PM.

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