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Does the devil really wear Prada?


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#1 agata

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 10:11 PM

Where would you draw the line between materialism and need. Is it a problem to want Louis Vuiton or Prada or YSL? What if i feel I deserve and really need these things and they make me feel happy? Is materialism the same as indulgence? If its just about spending above your needs there are always discounts and sample sales to help. If I want to follow the horned God do I have to .... well you know. Its like taking crack away from an addict.
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#2 Michele

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 11:22 PM

Hummmm.... I guess one should be sensible, lol... if one's rent is due and that leather jacket is the same price...

Granted there are not many wealthy pagans, but I don't know what the ratio of wealthy xtians (or any other religion) is to wealthy pagans, lol, so I can't answer that one.

I don't think one has to give up wanting things. In fact, if one wants nothing, then one has no goals... nothing to look forward too... I don't think I'd like that. I'm not overly materialistic, but I do spend more money on strange books than the average person spends on best-sellers, lol...

M

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#3 agata

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Posted 11 December 2009 - 05:38 AM

I was remembering a piece I watched on television. Ted Turner was being interviewed and said he worried about his money all the time and felt he had to protect it. The interviewer asked if it was not safe in the bank and he replied that the banks could go under. OK he was right about that but he didn't own his money; his money owned him because he worshiped it and that is was it is about. Worship the creator not the creation.

The more I read about paganism the more it all sounds amazingly like the bible in fact I never understood the bible as well as I do now. Perhaps the writers of the old and new testament read all the same books I just read and retold it all with a liberal twist and then had the hubris to write somewhere on the last pages that nothing in this book should be changed or....whatever.

So, I wonder if Bergdorf Goodman has special holiday hours. Just kidding.

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#4 LDG

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Posted 11 December 2009 - 06:25 AM

I think it has to do with alot more than indulgence. There are people with different morals, personality, wants and needs etc. I would love to have a house in the mountians off the grid. Material things mean little to me at this point in my life, unless i make them by my own two hands. When i buy something i know theres a point where it will lose its luster or break down rendering it useless, this happens with technology. But if i make what i want, i know how to remake it if it breaks down or gets damaged.

Its hard seperating yourself from things sometimes, but just know when you buy that prada purse, your paying for a label not quality (not to say some arent good quality). Same with hot topic when it was just starting, they used to sell higher quality products until they pushed for bigger trends, the suppliers wanted higher profits therefore lacked quality. I have a shirt from the first opening of hot topic back in the 90's here in prestine condition, a shit i bought last year already has holes and ripped stitching. So its about whether you can afford it, need it, want it, be comfortable with it and will use it well. I had a rude awakening so now i am striving for a simpler life knowing that things are made of labels and look for quality instead, whether it be generic goods or higher pricey luxury items.

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#5 Guest_Nightscent_*

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Posted 11 December 2009 - 11:32 AM

Yes the Devil wears Prada so it makes sense that his dance partner should be looking good too.
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#6 Michele

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Posted 11 December 2009 - 12:25 PM

Hey - I would love to hear your opinions of why you find the bible a lot like paganism..... could be intersting.

I am also curious to know if you have read somewhere that pagans shouldn't 'own' a lot of things.... I have not read that, to date, and would be interested to read the opinions behind that :-)

Joseph Campebll, a mythologist, whose few interviews I've seen I have totally loved, said that back in the day the church's steeple was the tallest 'building' in the village. This was symbolic of it (church going) being the most important, the most visible, and the house of the god being the most esily found building. He found it interesting that the tallest buildings today are the business (even taller than the government buildings) and that the corporatioin, and it's child (money) , are symbolically our new god(s).

I do think there needs to be a balance in life, and it is sad that in many areas there are no 'wilds' left and one has to pay $1.50 to have a picnic on a well-manicured park lawn. But everything is realtive and can be romantized (sp?). Yes I love the idea of the 'old way' of living, but I also know that back then people did die much more often from simple infections, fractures, misshaps, etc. Lice and rodents were prevelant, and women were chattel. Industry has changed the world, some for the better, some for the worse, but I think that balance is what would be most important.

M

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#7 Lela

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Posted 11 December 2009 - 04:23 PM

If you want something, regardless of it's expense and you can afford it, go for it! It's all subjective, IMO. I'm absolutely guilty of splurging on luxury goods. I work hard and earn my pay, so why not treat myself now and then if finances allow, right? Besides, you can score some fabulous finds at those sample sales. ;)

Where would you draw the line between materialism and need. Is it a problem to want Louis Vuiton or Prada or YSL? What if i feel I deserve and really need these things and they make me feel happy? Is materialism the same as indulgence? If its just about spending above your needs there are always discounts and sample sales to help. If I want to follow the horned God do I have to .... well you know. Its like taking crack away from an addict.


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#8 Morgana

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Posted 11 December 2009 - 06:45 PM

Material things are not really in the forefront of my life. I drive a 1994 van that still runs well and is just now starting to rust. I do need a nice outfit for a party on Sunday (hubby's office party), but I will hit the mall and find a nice sweater on sale to wear along with my skinny jeans and boots (they're about 3yrs old).

I will admit that up until about 4yrs ago I just had to have new stuff all the time. Now, I couldn't tell you when I last bought a nice sweater. So, for me, material things just don't cut it anymore! And I'm happy!

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#9 bewilderbeast

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Posted 11 December 2009 - 09:31 PM

What a topic!

Me and my husband have arguments about this every now and then. He is Mr. Technology and must have the latest gadgets as soon as they come out.

Mind you, he came from Guam, where they built their own house, and if they wanted to pee they had to walk up a hill to the outhouse! And typhoons? Bam, it's time to rebuild the house from the bottom up.

Now me, on the other hand, if I can grow it, I will. If I can make it, I will. If I can buy used or generic to save money or from depreciation, I will.

However, I do secretly enjoy the fact that my husband will force me to splurge every now and then. The only thing is I ask him to wait until the beta versions comes out bc it usually has more perks and less bugs.
I do own a pair of Prada glasses, perscription, and I've had them for 4 years, with no problems, before that, I was going to walmart, and buying a new pair every year. - Meanwhile I've had this LV purse (as a gift, one thing I don't spend money on is purses) and it's fallen apart after 2 years.

I don't think there's anything wrong with buying nice things if you feel you can afford it, and deserve it, as long as it's bc that's what you like, and not bc you're trying to keep up with the Jones' you know?
There are things that we have that we don't need per say, and if it's worth the value, then we will spend the extra money to buy it name brand.

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#10 Jason

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Posted 11 December 2009 - 11:01 PM

Yes the Devil wears Prada so it makes sense that his dance partner should be looking good too.


Lol. Couldnt agree more :party0016:

Edited by Jason, 11 December 2009 - 11:06 PM.

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#11 Grymdycche

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Posted 11 December 2009 - 11:12 PM

*Snip*
Worship the creator not the creation.


It's odd you say that, because that is a xtian mantra used to criticize pagans.
They (xtians) feel that by (pagans) honoring mother earth, nature, whatever you'd like to call it, they are ignoring "God". Obviously, the notion of pantheism completely escapes them. ;)
To me, there is no real difference, "God" you could say, is infused within the creation, as much a part of us and everything as we a part of "it". (I don't like assigning genders (he, she) to such things- the divine power of creation or whatever you want to call it is an "it" to me, and about as far and different from biological as I can possibly conceptualize anything of being)
But I'm not really into Deities, per se, anyway. I believe in something more like a "Force", if you will.

It can be difficult to define materialistic. I drive an old '96 buick, and my computers are all several years old too. I certainly have no "status" symbol possessions, no fancy Italian suits, and quite a modest little 2 bedroom house. I do like my gizmos and books though. So on one hand, I buy a lot of stuff to keep me occupied and learning or having fun; but I don't drive a Lexus, wear the most expensive threads (I think "Fashion" is retarded) or any of that snobbery status seeking stuff.
So long as I'm not a slob (and I'm not ;)) I'm okay; I don't require the very "best" of anything.
That said, I am sinking in debt and desperately need a better paying job.

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#12 Phoenix

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Posted 13 December 2009 - 04:36 AM

I don't think there is anything wrong with wanting nice things, especially, if they are expensive lol. It is truly a luxury and walking into a room wearing $500. shoes, sexy ones at that, are worth the money. They make you feel expensive lol and like royalty I guess. When I have the money, I like to spend it on things that are beautiful. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Also, materialism can be bad, like anything, when taken to the extreme. I think that someone who buys things they like, expensive or not, is sending a message to their self that they are worth it. Like I said, wearing expensive clothes sends a message to you as well as others. I see nothing wrong with it. Well, I guess if you are starving yourself and ignoring your electric bill, that would be quite excessive, otherwise, if you have the money to burn, then burn it.

However, I do have to say I do believe that we should be responsible when it comes to the environment, if your 500. shoes happen to be made of an endangered species i might shun you then.

Edited by Phoenix, 13 December 2009 - 04:44 AM.
afterthought

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#13 sophiadawn

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Posted 13 December 2009 - 08:04 PM

If someone wants something expensive and they can afford it, fantastic. Personally, I don't get into designer anything. Just can't see the point of paying for a label. I do not enjoy shopping for clothes but when I get the gift cards I will finally pick a day and buy myself some. I so seldom buy myself anything that my kids get all excited if I do. LOL (my daughters are big-time shoppers...they must get it from their dad)
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#14 agata

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Posted 19 December 2009 - 05:12 AM

Sorry I took so long; I thought I would never find the spot that I read about materialism and even started to think I imagined it. It is in The Witching Way of the Hollow Hill on page 141. It reads, "Materialists believe that a lot of money and possessions will make them truly happy - but when that mistaken belief warps their senses, and makes them destroy the world and hurt others in greed, they discover that all the money and possessions in the world only make them happy for a while. Then they feel hollow again, and try to fill it with even more material things - a neverending paper-chase, a neverending fight for what they can never attain enough of." Well I think this can happen on any level. We could easily be taking about having the jumbo size crayon box, which incidentally I never did get. Its what I meant about owning the thing rather than the other way around and letting it take over. My idea is that aside from making me happy I have always seen dressing well as a way of honoring my God and my family as well - I'm not taking necessarily expensive here just be well kept.
As for how bible is like paganism I don't think I have any breakthrough information to share. I was thinking about Apollo's death and rebirth to Christ's death and rebirth reflecting nature. I just noticed he talks about this as well on pg.103.
Somewhere else he says we must die to the self to live; the bible mirrors this with something about we must die to the world and be reborn in the spirit. I'm thinking there is probably something about the white tree and the tree in the garden of Eden; not the tree of good and evil but the tree of life which is the reason the lovers were sent packing. What were they going to learn from this tree?
I was always suspicious of why the unsaved and the saved were called fish and why the fish was the secret symbol. On pg. 96 he writes about the fish being a cold blooded animal that swims in a sea of chaos. I'm not sure what to think.
Last I just want to say that I don't have thousands to throw around, I am extremely careful with money and I would never put my family in financial danger. I rarely pay full price, the thinks I buy last a very long time and still look good because I but labels with quality and finally nothing cheers my husband up more than seeing a new something on his woman. I'm gonna dance now.:party9:

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#15 bewilderbeast

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Posted 19 December 2009 - 05:58 AM

and finally nothing cheers my husband up more than seeing a new something on his woman. I'm gonna dance now.:party9:


Aw, Agata.... you nearly brought me to tears with that statement.
Very sweet line.... I think I'll dance with you!
:hug: -> :dancing:

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#16 agata

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Posted 19 December 2009 - 04:47 PM

It's odd you say that, because that is a xtian mantra used to criticize pagans.
They (xtians) feel that by (pagans) honoring mother earth, nature, whatever you'd like to call it, they are ignoring "God". Obviously, the notion of pantheism completely escapes them. ;)


I must fess up! I indeed stole the line! Too bad they don't follow it either. I spent a long time in one of those churches looking for something. They worship statues, their bible knowledge, and even the church itself. I put my son into a 4th grade class at a Christian school and after the 2nd day he came home and said, "Gee mom, You can really tell when your in a christian school. Here they say "Praise the Lord" before they belt you in the stomach.
I agree it is the spirit of the tree, stream, lake etc that we worship - the thing that make life be alive.

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#17 mcdee2005

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Posted 27 December 2009 - 11:23 AM


I don't think one has to give up wanting things. In fact, if one wants nothing, then one has no goals... nothing to look forward too...

M


I couldn't agree more, providing that your want of something does not become an obsession where everything else is disregarded to achieve those goals.

I think the real question here should not be "Does the devil really wear Prada?" but "Why does the Devil wear Prada?"

Especially when there are better designers out there....lol....

McD

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#18 Cedar

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Posted 27 December 2009 - 04:51 PM

While I don't have a problem with anyone buying nice things in any form if they can afford them, I have adopted a deliberately simple lifestyle for myself. I dislke shopping unless I have to, and don't care to keep up with trends, be they fashion or otherwise. I enjoy the luxury of having few things to care for or worry about and what I do own I use regularly or thoroughly enjoy its beauty in my home.

I don't believe I do this because of any environmental standpoint, although living this way does keep my carbon footprint small. I also don't do it because of the adage I've seen folks toting about as a bumper sticker which says, "Live simply so that others my simply live!" Being a Taurus, I find it a very practicle and down-to-earth way to live. I also just enjoy the thrill I get from seeing the bargains I can find, or how much of what I use I can make for myself or how little I can live on each month. It's very satisfying in a deeply spiritual sort of way. It's a kind of self-reliance, I guess, and it gives me a buzz!

That said, my big weakness on spending would be books and dining out! Thank heavens for used book stores otherwise I'm sure I'd be spending three times what I do on books now, and not only that, I'd have piles of books lying about my place as they stack up. I like being able to take them back in and trade them for more books!

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#19 The Old Crone

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Posted 28 December 2009 - 05:45 PM

Where would you draw the line between materialism and need. Is it a problem to want Louis Vuiton or Prada or YSL? What if i feel I deserve and really need these things and they make me feel happy? Is materialism the same as indulgence? If its just about spending above your needs there are always discounts and sample sales to help. If I want to follow the horned God do I have to .... well you know. Its like taking crack away from an addict.



Well, I for one NEED my perfume. And yes, I do put on some Chanel even when I go out to the fields to! I deserve it ad I need it. And when I am sweating like a pig, to make a buck for my family-that whiff of a bottle of 90$ perfume actually gives me the energy to continue. So I guess whats one mans vice may be anothers virute, yes?

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#20 Tanya

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 02:08 AM

well, my Granny told me, "People are what's important, not things." so... if 'things' are kept in the proper prospective, they aren't a problem.

I do believe that we are all part fo the divine and that treating ourselves kindly is honoring that.. but obviously that can not be so if it takes away from someone else...

so I guess having things isn't 'bad' acting badly to GET them IS.

To another point on the thread about rich Pagans... well... I guess I'm one of the few that is both... and I was having a laugh today comming from my daughter's school athletics day... of all the Mom's I'm probably one that is 'worth' the most, yet there i sat in a pair of sandals that broke a month ago but that I cut off the broken bits and recobbled so they still look OK and don't fall off my feet in a shirt I bought a goodwill, sun glasses from the gas station wearing jewlery my husband made me.

While all the other mothers had brought store bought cakes and sodas for a picnic, we had grapes, homemade apple cake and home brewed iced tea in a thermos before I hopped into my 15 year old scratched up greenie-bumper stickered Mazda, nosing out around the polished Bmers and went off to work...

I found myself wondering if I was rich BECAUSE i don't really want anything more than my needs met.. (or maybe i'm just excentric)

I also heard a few days ago, a new collegue complemented me on a scarf I was wearing (silk hand painted with oak leaves, as that is what my last name means....it was a gift) and another collegue said "Ohh that Tanya she has tons of beautiful clothes...." I didn't have the heart to tell her the only new piece of clothing I've bought besides undies in the last decade was my wedding dress... the rest I got from goodwill, yard sales, found along hiking trails or picked up at the town dump...lmao

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