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Ancestral Memory


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#41 Jevne

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 12:30 AM

This is my belief as well. It could be one to the explanations for children who are a genius at something, but who have hardly had any education/training in it, for example, a savant pianist who pretty much born with those abilities.


Another good example of the application of ancestral memory, IMHO. Thanks so much for sharing.

J

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#42 Ayrmids_Runes

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 02:58 AM

I think Saints are a type of ancestor. And that they definitely stay around longer for their descendants both spiritually descendant, and those who are physically descendants. We have discussed above how witch ancestors may not be related to us, but become a part of our witch craft by our contact with them through the veil.


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I feel the veneration given to catholic saints (or any diety for that matter) is a way for that spirit to draw power. Worship, veneration, memories, ect, all these things focus the energy of our minds into on specific entity, and I believe that gives them power and life. I think the more an entity is focused on, the more powerful that spirit can become. There are a couple sides to this, one is that the entity has an exsistence all its own on another plane, the second is that is completely created from the power of the human mind (ie. tulpas)

I have always felt very drawn to my ancestors, particuarlly one line that traces through one of my great-grandfathers. I am drawn to where they lived, the lands they walked on, the graves they are buried in... anything with a real physical connection with them draws me like a magnet. But I also have this feeling concerning certain South American civilizations (particuarly Incan and Nazca), which I have zero blood ties to (My lineage is completely Irish/English as far as I can trace back). So I have to agree that there can be those ancestor connections with peoples who are not of blood kin. I often wonder if the connection is a conglomeration of DNA for those memories that remain from our ancestors, and reincarnation for the ones that seemily lie completely outside our known spheres.

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#43 Ayrmids_Runes

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 03:05 AM

This topic also has me thinking about how we perceive time. There are certain theories that explain time like miniscule snapshots of exsistene, and when all the snapshots are put together they form what we percieve as linear time. This would be similar to how cartoons are created with a multituded of drawings combined to make a moving picture. If this is true then all past, present, and future exsist simultaiously, we only percieve it as linear. So perhaps the ancestral memories aren't really memories, but rather a connection with an ancestor that exsists in his own time. He may not be "living" in our time, but he is still in exsistence in his own slice of the time/space pie, and those that are sensitive enough can still grasp onto the energy being projected out of that mind/spirit.



Ok, now this has made my head hurt thinking about this.

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#44 LdyShalott

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 03:25 AM

This topic also has me thinking about how we perceive time. There are certain theories that explain time like miniscule snapshots of exsistene, and when all the snapshots are put together they form what we percieve as linear time. This would be similar to how cartoons are created with a multituded of drawings combined to make a moving picture. If this is true then all past, present, and future exsist simultaiously, we only percieve it as linear. So perhaps the ancestral memories aren't really memories, but rather a connection with an ancestor that exsists in his own time. He may not be "living" in our time, but he is still in exsistence in his own slice of the time/space pie, and those that are sensitive enough can still grasp onto the energy being projected out of that mind/spirit.


Completely get this concept and have wondered the same. I am not convinced all "ancestral memory" is of this nature, but believe time is not linear or a rigid entity transfixed along a uniform and set rate , but relative.. as Albert says.. "Time is an illusion, albeit a persistent one" .. would love to discuss the doctrine of temporal parts as well but thats a whole other can of worms.. lol

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Most witches don’t believe in gods. They know that the gods exist, of course. They even deal with them occasionally. But they don’t believe in them. They know them too well. It would be like believing in the postman.  T.P.

In order to understand the living.. you have to commune with the dead..
You are a tiny little soul carrying around a corpse.-- Epictetus
All experience is an arch wherethrough gleams that untravelled world whose margin fades for ever and for ever when I move.

 


#45 Jevne

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 03:33 AM

Bumping this thread for further discussion, as it relates to some of Michele's comments and because the winter is a time for settling by the hearth with your beloved, both living and not.

J

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#46 Anara

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 11:22 AM

Enjoyed reading this thread, a lot of thought provoking things.


This is a good topic-I'll be referring back to this thread, I'm sure-much to think on and process.






edited: :)

Edited by Anara, 02 December 2012 - 11:45 AM.

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"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you will always long to return." ~ Leonardo Da Vinci

#47 Anara

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 11:24 AM

double post :)

Edited by Anara, 01 December 2012 - 11:24 AM.

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"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you will always long to return." ~ Leonardo Da Vinci

#48 Rainy

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 06:01 PM

This topic also has me thinking about how we perceive time. There are certain theories that explain time like miniscule snapshots of exsistene, and when all the snapshots are put together they form what we percieve as linear time. This would be similar to how cartoons are created with a multituded of drawings combined to make a moving picture. If this is true then all past, present, and future exsist simultaiously, we only percieve it as linear. So perhaps the ancestral memories aren't really memories, but rather a connection with an ancestor that exsists in his own time. He may not be "living" in our time, but he is still in exsistence in his own slice of the time/space pie, and those that are sensitive enough can still grasp onto the energy being projected out of that mind/spirit.



Ok, now this has made my head hurt thinking about this.



Oh my gosh!

Brings me to think of things in a different light.
I've had a spirit guide for quite some time that I perceive as an elderly male.
I presumed him to be a spirit of someone who had passed on. But maybe he is making effort to make contact from his space/time/life. ??? Maybe he views me as HIS spirit guide!!
Any thoughts??

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#49 Shadow Touch

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 07:25 PM

Bumping this thread for further discussion, as it relates to some of Michele's comments and because the winter is a time for settling by the hearth with your beloved, both living and not.

J


Yes, and there is some very old lore about the hearth being a portal to the ancestral realm or the adode of the dead. I recall something about the stockings hung on the hearth as being a symbol of the Fates (as weavers). This connects back to the relationship between the living and dead, and touches upon the oracle nature of the dead.

Edited by Shadow Touch, 04 December 2012 - 07:26 PM.

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#50 Michele

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 11:20 PM

Yes, and there is some very old lore about the hearth being a portal to the ancestral realm or the adode of the dead. I recall something about the stockings hung on the hearth as being a symbol of the Fates (as weavers). This connects back to the relationship between the living and dead, and touches upon the oracle nature of the dead.


That is interesting... for me the oracle nature would be in the memories... that although the time and the technology is different, the problems are basically the same. And in that respect someone in my past has gone through them before. And access or inspiration from that gives suggestions on how to do things now as well as comfort in knowing that whatever happens - however big or however small - someone has gone through it before me and I'm never alone in anything. Using actual dead as oracles is not in my path as for the most part the answers should be there (with a lot of work on my part and a lot of listening) and for me it would not be polite to bother the Ancestors for answers that are already available if I open myself to them. ut that is also just my way and all ways are different.

M

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#51 Shadow Touch

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 01:50 PM

Using actual dead as oracles is not in my path as for the most part the answers should be there (with a lot of work on my part and a lot of listening) and for me it would not be polite to bother the Ancestors for answers that are already available if I open myself to them. ut that is also just my way and all ways are different.

M


Yes, there are many interesting ways to look at this and other topics. In my tradition we tend to think of the ancestors as being within us, So there is always some form of communication going on. In that light, oracle tends to be a "heads up" kind of thing.

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#52 Michele

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 11:04 PM

Yes, there are many interesting ways to look at this and other topics. In my tradition we tend to think of the ancestors as being within us, So there is always some form of communication going on. In that light, oracle tends to be a "heads up" kind of thing.


Ahhhh.. that makes sense. I had thought you were referring to summoning an actual dead person from where they were/are for divination.purposes.

M

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#53 Athena

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 01:16 PM

I absolutely believe in ancestral memory, I have on more than one occasion had a use for a plant pop I to my mind that I had no idea of and know I wouldn't have thought of. I think that using or accessing those memories like anything else takes some practice and the more you use it the easier and stronger you get at being able to utilize them. I have a specific meditation I use in finding those memories as I explore my own mind and I write them down and then sometimes like with the plant uses research them to see if they are valid what truly amazes me is I have yet to have one that was completely wrong and usually they are dead on but have not been used for that purpose in generations. I have also had some scary memories of things from the long ago past or a feeling of home in a place I have never been. My husband had that feeling when he visited Scotland he said when he was there it was lie returning to a long forgotten home that you have missed without ever realizing you where missing it.
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#54 RedDragon

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 03:49 AM

As far as I am concerned there is definitely ancestral memory. I am of Scottish highland ancestry and the thread of memory, the culture, flows through the Clans and Septs as a twisting watercourse with its multitude of streams that meander but always come back to the flood. An individual or even a family generation may be skipped but for no apparent reason it springs forth anew in the lads and lasses that follow regardless of where they are born or residing. A way of thinking, an identification of the Celt, a sense of déjà vu on encountering something from the past, it arises from our innermost core.
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#55 aurora

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 06:48 PM

yep
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#56 Anara

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 01:05 PM

Very interesting to read, RedDragon. Gave it a vote.
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"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you will always long to return." ~ Leonardo Da Vinci

#57 Jevne

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 02:03 PM

I believe strongly in ancestral memory and group consciousness. I find it a powerful and sometimes moving source. I have the upmost respect for my ancestors and was taught from very young that they were always there watching and guiding. I now understand the real meaning of it. I know they are there to guide and support when needed, and their energies can be called upon to aid me.

And the traditional spells handed down through my family really have a different feel to them. Not better or worse than any of my own creation, but just have more momentum to them. Im sure you all know what I mean.

Great thread btw Grimr



I find this a very compelling statement. Worthy of a bump. It is how I am feeling on this particular day.

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#58 Michele

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 02:15 PM

I find this a very compelling statement. Worthy of a bump. It is how I am feeling on this particular day.


When one does something that's been done x times before, by x generations, or x family members, or the folk... all that memory is attached to it... it becomes not just a spell, but part of one's heritage, and all that is tied up in the memory of everyone who ever did it, living or dead.

M

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#59 Jevne

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 12:57 AM

In "Notes on the Spirit Basis of Belief" (1885) James M. Campbell wrote "It seems probable from the examples given under the heading of Ancestor-worship that all spirits were originally the spirtis of men. It is also probable that all spirits were originally mortal." The author goes on to describe how certain cultures believed that spirits retained the ability to interact and/or remained cognizant of the activities of the living for only a certain amount of time, from one year to twelve years, it says.

This matches my beliefs to an extent, the idea that a spirit remains cohesive for a limited time, depending on its power, the power of those who call him/her, and the connection that keeps them bound in the first place. (Beyond that time, one would speculatively be pulling from the ancestral memory.)

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#60 aurora

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 11:52 AM

That's very interesting as my belief is also that the time span is limited . My nonna told me her 10th year was up and she was going onto another plane.After that the contact was different and rare.
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