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Guest Landieth

Born or Made?

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Guest Landieth

I'll post this in the public area so everyone has a chance to voice their opinion. :) Thanks Tana for the idea!

 

On the subject of Hereditary and Traditional Witchcraft as it corresponds to the witch --

 

I'm of the opinion that a witch is born. Not made. Now before I step on anyone's toes I'll clarify. I do not agree that just because you are born from some long line of witches that you are a witch. I think a witch is born one, by what ever name you want to call it, and that certain family members in the family can be born with that certain spark, while others just aren't meant for it. And it speaks more to me that you were born the way you were than you come from some long line. Now I think it's why many people are turning back to witchcraft as more souls are coming back with that 'spark' in them, and it gravitates them toward their spirituality. After all I feel our craft is an extension of ourselves, it's our spirit and who we are. This is why I say a witch is born, not made - witchcraft is an extension of that person, it's who they are. And I feel some just are not meant for it.

 

So what's your opinion on the matter?

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I'll post this in the public area so everyone has a chance to voice their opinion. :) Thanks Tana for the idea!

 

On the subject of Hereditary and Traditional Witchcraft as it corresponds to the witch --

 

I'm of the opinion that a witch is born. Not made. Now before I step on anyone's toes I'll clarify. I do not agree that just because you are born from some long line of witches that you are a witch. I think a witch is born one, by what ever name you want to call it, and that certain family members in the family can be born with that certain spark, while others just aren't meant for it. And it speaks more to me that you were born the way you were than you come from some long line. Now I think it's why many people are turning back to witchcraft as more souls are coming back with that 'spark' in them, and it gravitates them toward their spirituality. After all I feel our craft is an extension of ourselves, it's our spirit and who we are. This is why I say a witch is born, not made - witchcraft is an extension of that person, it's who they are.. and it's also why I don't agree that Wiccan's are witches (but that's another subject and i'll leave it at that). And I feel some just are not meant for it.

 

So what's your opinion on the matter?

 

I would agree only if that spark, can by another name, be called interest. I think people who have an interest in witchcraft can become witches. From there, whether they are trained and initiated, trained by family and just grow up in the lifestyle, "otherworld" taught, sexually transferred powers... it all works. If one is interested and takes the time and effort to adopt the lifestyle, I'd consider them a witch. SOme are born with a propensity, some develope an interest and make it happen for themselves. Some consider it a religion, some consider it a lifestyle, some don't bother to consider it - they just do it. But if the interest isn't there, the witch won't be either. It's all a matter of opinion. I love peas. My son hates them.. who's right?

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Guest Landieth
I would agree only if that spark, can by another name, be called interest. I think people who have an interest in witchcraft can become witches. From there, whether they are trained and initiated, trained by family and just grow up in the lifestyle, "otherworld" taught, sexually transferred powers... it all works. If one is interested and takes the time and effort to adopt the lifestyle, I'd consider them a witch. SOme are born with a propensity, some develope an interest and make it happen for themselves. Some consider it a religion, some consider it a lifestyle, some don't bother to consider it - they just do it. But if the interest isn't there, the witch won't be either. It's all a matter of opinion. I love peas. My son hates them.. who's right?

 

I'd say the spark is more of a 'calling' than an interest. :)

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I'll post this in the public area so everyone has a chance to voice their opinion. :) Thanks Tana for the idea!

 

On the subject of Hereditary and Traditional Witchcraft as it corresponds to the witch --

 

I'm of the opinion that a witch is born. Not made. Now before I step on anyone's toes I'll clarify. I do not agree that just because you are born from some long line of witches that you are a witch. I think a witch is born one, by what ever name you want to call it, and that certain family members in the family can be born with that certain spark, while others just aren't meant for it. And it speaks more to me that you were born the way you were than you come from some long line. Now I think it's why many people are turning back to witchcraft as more souls are coming back with that 'spark' in them, and it gravitates them toward their spirituality. After all I feel our craft is an extension of ourselves, it's our spirit and who we are. This is why I say a witch is born, not made - witchcraft is an extension of that person, it's who they are.. and it's also why I don't agree that Wiccan's are witches (but that's another subject and i'll leave it at that). And I feel some just are not meant for it.

 

So what's your opinion on the matter?

 

 

 

 

Being a witch is the same (to me) as having special gifts of sight, etc. We all are born with it, but it is society and other influences that forces some of us from our own natural instinct.

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I'd say the spark is more of a 'calling' than an interest. :)

 

Calling works ;-) lol. Anyone with an interest (or calling!) can take an art class. Some will draw better than others through a born-with talent, but any can enjoy drawing, learn either by a class or by themselves how to do it relatively well, and enjoy the benefits of art :-) But if they aren't really into it and don't practice it, they usually won't develop their talent.

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Guest Landieth
Being a witch is the same (to me) as having special gifts of sight, etc. We all are born with it, but it is society and other influences that forces some of us from our own natural instinct.

 

I'd agree everyone is born with their natural instincts, however I don't believe everyone has the ability to access them.

 

Calling works ;-) lol. Anyone with an interest (or calling!) can take an art class. Some will draw better than others through a born-with talent, but any can enjoy drawing, learn either by a class or by themselves how to do it relatively well, and enjoy the benefits of art :-) But if they aren't really into it and don't practice it, they usually won't develop their talent.

 

IMO a calling is much stronger than an interest. It's not something you can just ignore, it's who you are. :)

 

In everything, there's poeple who can do something and put it down and never do it again. However there's others doing the same thing that are not able to just drop it and leave it.

 

I can only speak for myself, but I could never be able to just stop being who I am. I see things the way I see things, I feel things the way I feel things, and I experience the way I feel things.. this is my craft, and is daily life. If I was to run away from it or try to ignore it well.. I've done that before and let's just say it wasn't pretty LOL!

 

I believe everyone has their primal instincts instincts but some people just lack the ability to recognize and use it. It's the 'spark', or calling, IMO, that gives people the ability recognize it.

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I'm in the 'born' camp even though it took me nearly 40 years to realise it. Then some years of being nudged one way then another until someone said, 'Brian, what you're doing is so close to Trad Craft ways, you might as well join our bunch of mis-fits.' or words to that effect.

Yes, you can 'make' a Witch but without that in-built spark they'd be better off not bothering or joining a ritual magic training group.

 

This has just reminded me of a situation that arose between two famous actors in a film. One, playing some kind of hobo/wino character spent 3 weeks getting to know the part by being a hobo/wino on the streets. The other, approached him one day and said, 'Why don't you try acting? It's a lot easier.'

 

Brian

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Guest Tiger Lady

I remember when I started having dreams I was a witch. I was three and it continued to be my most prevelant dream all the way up to present. As I got older I found out it was a secret in my family. My mom practices some sort of Native American thing, while my grandfather practices a more Celtic version. And an aunt on the other side of my mom's family was some sort of seer. Its tradition in my family to keep those sort of things secret until the child picks their path. Its apparently a strong enough pull for some of us to do just that. So, I think its something we are born with. A pull, a calling. I picked my path at age 18, just to find out I wasn't the only one in the family. And here I thought I was going to be persecuted. The issues I have are letting my kids pick their own path. I know for certain the path my daughter will pick, I'm not certain about my son. My mom says I have to wait and let them do it on their own but that's hard for me. My grandfather died a year before I picked my path. My mom says he could have shared a lot with me but I missed that and I think I'm afraid I'll miss passing on my ideas to my children. Okay, I went beyond the question - calling, I definitely think its a calling.

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Guest Bean Sprite

Nature verses nurture right? Hmmm....

I was brought up in the ways. My brother was too, but he isn't interested. My daughter has been Brought up in the ways, but she's on the fence.

I'm not sure if you are born a witch or you can be made a witch. I would like to think you are atleast passed talents from your ancestors, but not all of us have witchy ancestors.

I know TL's daughter is definately a witchy baby. You can see her gifts now.

I wouls say you can be born a witch, but also a witch by product of learning.

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Guest Landieth
Nature verses nurture right? Hmmm....

I was brought up in the ways. My brother was too, but he isn't interested. My daughter has been Brought up in the ways, but she's on the fence.

I'm not sure if you are born a witch or you can be made a witch. I would like to think you are atleast passed talents from your ancestors, but not all of us have witchy ancestors.

I know TL's daughter is definately a witchy baby. You can see her gifts now.

I wouls say you can be born a witch, but also a witch by product of learning.

 

Perhaps, but hey it may be just me but I firmly believe that fate holds acquaintances and certain circumstances such as a place of learning. IMO, if you're called then it'll find a way to show you.

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Guest Oakbuchanan

Born definatley.. but a potential state of being that is to one degree or another latent within many..though it is only recognised by some..for me it was an inner voice that wouldnt go away and I couldnt damnwell ignore, I would also be bombarded with dreams..

 

I believe, Some grow up feeling this way, like myself, with an inner knowing or 'calling' which is a good way of putting it Land, and either embrace it or supress it..for others its a sudden remembering or waking up when they read something or meet someone or something they recognise or that resonates and realise.. 'this is what I am!'.. the coming home feeling which a lot of people talk about..

 

I dont believe you can make a Witch, its either there or its not.. you can make a Wiccan or a Catholic because these paths have set rules and can be adopted..

 

For me being a Witch transcends this.. Its something I remember from long ago, but cant quite articulate in words..

 

So I believe a Witch is born.. but not all realise thats what they are until someone or something wakes them up from their sleep..

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Awesome topic. I believe that witches are born, you either have the spark so to speak or you don't. At least for me when I was a kid I remember getting my first book "Animal Speak", it was the only book in the occult section I could persuade my mother into letting me get. From that point on I knew there was something there, and I wanted to know more.

 

I'm the only one in my family that I know of that is interested in it. I do think that a witch can be made but it wouldn't have the same power behind it if that person didn't have that spark to begin with.

 

I agree with Oakbuchanan with the whole you can make a Christian or a Wiccan.

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I wanted to be a classical pianist-I took years and years of lessons, studied and practiced. But my hands are to small, I don't have the span I would need to be a professional, so to speak. What I am trying to say is, it's not enough to want it-no matter how bad. You either got the needed "equipment"or ya'dont. Simple. Some are born gifted, others learn their gift as they travel thru life, practicing their art etc.. and then others...just cause ya' like to paint don't mean your Picasso, know what I'm sayin'?

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I wanted to be a classical pianist-I took years and years of lessons, studied and practiced. But my hands are to small, I don't have the span I would need to be a professional, so to speak. What I am trying to say is, it's not enough to want it-no matter how bad. You either got the needed "equipment"or ya'dont. Simple. Some are born gifted, others learn their gift as they travel thru life, practicing their art etc.. and then others...just cause ya' like to paint don't mean your Picasso, know what I'm sayin'?

 

Very close to what I was going to say.

 

I can sing, and once upon a time I could sing very well. I haven't used the skill in a long time, so I not only didn't get better, my abilities have decreased.

 

My sister can't sing more than a simple tune, and not very well at that, but she will do so with enthusiasm. Perhaps with practice and a patient teacher she could improve, but she has no desire to commit that much of her time.

 

I think being able to manipulate energies can be no less simple.

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You can be born with abilities and never use them until later in life but you really have to work with them. Others would like the abilities and actually work extremely hard to get them to work for them.

 

When I was small I had certain abilities to "see" things but by the time I was a teen I hated them and refused to use them. As I hit my late 20's these abilities decided they wanted out and I went thru a period of knowing too much. When I decided I wanted to be able to see things when needed and when not needed, I had to work to control the sight. Now I have no problems seeing things when I need to and when I don't need to.

 

So I guess that I'm siding with being born a witch. Though I'm sure there are those that are born a witch and never know it.

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Why can't both exist? The silver and the red thread???? Or are we using "born a witch" as a referral to born with a propensity, not born into a family of..... (damn - sometimes language is so limiting - lol)

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Greetings All

 

Hmm well yup - I always gotta answer this one with a resounding BOTH!

 

This is especially the case in those who last any length of time really.

 

There is the "something" that has just gotta be there if they're ever gona be any good at it .. and that obviously is something one is just born with. Then of course there are some fabulous arguments for the proper handling of teh raw materials so to speak.

 

The argy bargies over sexual vs symbolic vs organised vs spotaneous etc well as far as I am concerned (as I am pretty sure I said of something else yesterday) is like arguing that everyone MUST wear waders simply because they are useful for fishing .. in some instances.

 

For me; (way back when) my apprenticeship took off after a couple of different scenarios involing one working init by my then Master and a sexual init by my Initiatrix - separate instances, separate occasions and in some ways separate outcomes - but all went to the mix as it were and I personally believe that having both was what was needed for me to unfold as I had to. That said - I'd hesitate to recc. one or other or both to anyone cause it changes and some never require a damnb thing - it is all spontaneous and just happens. I even met one guy who spontaneously awakened while watching a movie in a cinema!

 

*Shrugs* Like any cake you need the right ingrediants, prepared the right way, mixed the right way and cooked the right way - and THEN, all being JUST RIGHT - you get something that goes with your Earl Grey ... if not well .. mebbe you could pass it off as fudge or a biscuit or somth ...

 

lol

 

Fraternally

 

Scott

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Well said!

 

Greetings All

 

Hmm well yup - I always gotta answer this one with a resounding BOTH!

 

This is especially the case in those who last any length of time really.

 

There is the "something" that has just gotta be there if they're ever gona be any good at it .. and that obviously is something one is just born with. Then of course there are some fabulous arguments for the proper handling of teh raw materials so to speak.

 

The argy bargies over sexual vs symbolic vs organised vs spotaneous etc well as far as I am concerned (as I am pretty sure I said of something else yesterday) is like arguing that everyone MUST wear waders simply because they are useful for fishing .. in some instances.

 

For me; (way back when) my apprenticeship took off after a couple of different scenarios involing one working init by my then Master and a sexual init by my Initiatrix - separate instances, separate occasions and in some ways separate outcomes - but all went to the mix as it were and I personally believe that having both was what was needed for me to unfold as I had to. That said - I'd hesitate to recc. one or other or both to anyone cause it changes and some never require a damnb thing - it is all spontaneous and just happens. I even met one guy who spontaneously awakened while watching a movie in a cinema!

 

*Shrugs* Like any cake you need the right ingrediants, prepared the right way, mixed the right way and cooked the right way - and THEN, all being JUST RIGHT - you get something that goes with your Earl Grey ... if not well .. mebbe you could pass it off as fudge or a biscuit or somth ...

 

lol

 

Fraternally

 

Scott

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Born or made? The never-ending debate among witches. I have to side with Michele and Scott on this one. I think it's a bit of both.

 

Without that desire or initial spark, no matter how much you try to "make" someone a witch or anything for that matter, e.g. artist or chef, it ain't gonna happen. A major part of being a witch is listening to and following one's natural instincts ? the "born" part. However, there are some who sometimes need a little guidance along the way, and that's when the "made" part comes into the equation. Someone might have natural "abilities" out the wazoo, but might not really know or understand how to work with them until someone more experienced comes along to take them beyond the novice level.

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I nicked this from a web-site, but it's very apropos (sp):

 

"Power may be present from birth, but witchery must be learned."

 

I go for both - one without the interest/calling would never achieve initiation, whether of this world or another or of education.

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The time I have spent thinking about this topic over the years!

Oakbuchanan puts into words my very thoughts on the subject, and explains it much better than I ever could. ( I would put a quote from his piece here, but I haven't worked out how to do it yet..sorry)

 

This way of being was in me from when I can first remember. I was brought up in a very remote area with my two Brothers and Parents, but everything about me, and the way I thought and behaved was so different from all other major, and at the time, only influences I had in my life. Nature/Nurture? for me personally on this particular topic it was definitely nature.

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Some are born gifted, others learn their gift as they travel thru life, practicing their art etc.. and then others...just cause ya' like to paint don't mean your Picasso, know what I'm sayin'?

 

I'd have to disagree with the last part of this quote. Just because one doesn't paint like Picasso doesn't mean they're not an artist. It just means they paint pictures in their own way. Otherwise the world would be devoid of Monets, Da Vincis, and Warhols ? not everyone is going to be a Picasso.

 

I truly believe that the more one practices their craft, the more they master it - but what really makes this determination is how dedicated a person is to learning their craft. One can only master a skill or ability only through use and practice. You either use it and further your abilities, or do nothing, and simply let it fade away.

 

 

"Power may be present from birth, but witchery must be learned."

 

Very apropos indeed!

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Guest Rebie
I wanted to be a classical pianist-I took years and years of lessons, studied and practiced. But my hands are to small, I don't have the span I would need to be a professional, so to speak. What I am trying to say is, it's not enough to want it-no matter how bad. You either got the needed "equipment"or ya'dont. Simple. Some are born gifted, others learn their gift as they travel thru life, practicing their art etc.. and then others...just cause ya' like to paint don't mean your Picasso, know what I'm sayin'?

 

Definatly how I see it.

Rebie

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