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What would you do in the world..


Deb13b

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if being a witch was considered acceptable, in the eyes of the law aswell as the people in general. In other words, you couldn't be harassed / lose your job / be hung or burned ! Would you like to have an active role in society as a witch, say.. dispensing advice, charms, curses, healing potions, etc, like the village wise-women of old ?

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if being a witch was considered acceptable, in the eyes of the law aswell as the people in general. In other words, you couldn't be harassed / lose your job / be hung or burned ! Would you like to have an active role in society as a witch, say.. dispensing advice, charms, curses, healing potions, etc, like the village wise-women of old ?

 

...witchcraft is not against the law...at least not here in the states??? Though to some it may not either exist or even be looked upon as some form of evil.

 

Though I may roll my eyes at the thought of witchcraft being labeled as a form of religion here, it still is labeled as such and employers are NOT permitted to harass their employees who are active in this "religion" and IF someone were to "loose" their job due to this, and/or are harassed as part of this...then it is considered a "hostile work environment" and can seek assistance the labor board.

 

The law is clear on this. If there is any doubt, please contact me and I can give you case rulings on this fact.

 

Also the law is very clear in way of child custody as well on this topic.

 

So I'm not real sure as to why you would wish to include "if being a witch was considered acceptable, in the eyes of the law".

 

Yes, one would (mostly likely) need a business license in order to "sell" potions, charms, etc.

 

Now the fuzzy lines come into play when someone (anyone) attempts to disperse "medicinal" liquids with the claim "this will help get rid of your pnemonia, etc." The liability alone is enormous and the fact that should anything go awry withe the person taking the liquid (they have an allergic/adverse reaction, die, etc.) then the law can choose to prosecute the person dispensing the liquid on the basis of "practicing without a medical license", amongst other charges as well.

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Guest Bean Sprite

It should be lawfull in the UK too. They abolished the anti-witch laws in 1953, well, some time in the early 50's. Witches were giving potions, healings, cleansings, and readings for centuries before then, just not being called witches. The sailors relied on their help. Their glass floats are where witch balls came from.

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The one good thing Wicca has done is made witchcraft officially recognized as a religion by the US government. The US Army now includes paganism in it's chaplains curriculum. And your tombstone can have a penticle on it. All my family and all my cooworkers know I am a witch. One of my cooworkers is a witch also. I do not do potions or spells for the cowans, but I am frequently asked for Tarot or palm readings at work...:) They think it's fun at first, then they come back with more serious questions.

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The one good thing Wicca has done is made witchcraft officially recognized as a religion by the US government. The US Army now includes paganism in it's chaplains curriculum. And your tombstone can have a penticle on it.

 

and THAT was a milestone in witchcraft alone!

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Guest GreenJack

I'd sit on the doorstep in my rocking chair, cackling manically whenever anyone went past, scaring children and men, just for the hell of it...

 

:biting:

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I'd sit on the doorstep in my rocking chair, cackling manically whenever anyone went past, scaring children and men, just for the hell of it...

 

:biting:

 

Shit GJ, why wait?

 

Hell I do that now!!!!!

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It should be lawfull in the UK too. They abolished the anti-witch laws in 1953, well, some time in the early 50's. Witches were giving potions, healings, cleansings, and readings for centuries before then, just not being called witches. The sailors relied on their help. Their glass floats are where witch balls came from.

 

The Witchcraft act was fully repealed in the UK in 1951 and replaced with the Fraudulent Mediums act. There is a thread about it in History of Witchcraft for those interested in UK matters.

http://www.traditionalwitch.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2068

 

I do what I want without fear of persecution, but I recognise I am extraordinarily lucky socially. I am out of the broom closet both at home and at work and so I don't need to imagine what I would do because its OK...if that makes sense! Secrecy is a long tradition however and its only since my kids are grown that I have had the confidence to be open. Many in my family think I am a little bit mad for it!

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Ooooh there would be sooo many things I would do if they were socially acceptable but I'll have to stick to doing them in private :twisted_witch:

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I'd sit on the doorstep in my rocking chair, cackling manically whenever anyone went past, scaring children and men, just for the hell of it...

 

:biting:

 

 

You say that like its a bad thing! HA!:evillaugh:

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When I mentioned the law I meant that it would have to provide protection for witches, against various god-squads / crowds with pitchforks !

 

The repeal of the witchcraft laws fascinated me as a small child, when I first read about it. I remember I was shocked that it had taken so long for the authorities to get round to it !

 

and Soapfairy.... you are a woman after my own heart heehee ! :P

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When I mentioned the law I meant that it would have to provide protection for witches, against various god-squads / crowds with pitchforks !:P

 

...it does. Here in the United States it is under the "Hate Crimes Act"...and that is a federal crime.

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...it does. Here in the United States it is under the "Hate Crimes Act"...and that is a federal crime.

 

Ya know, even though it's supposed to protect people, how can you be sure it really was a hate crime? I mean you play that card and you're almost guaranteed to win but I honestly think people do abuse it. Ah well, sometimes I think that's what we do best in the states, abuse laws, lol

 

I'll be honest, I like keeping it secret. Because if I do choose to talk about withcy stuff to anyone I have to make sure I don't sound fluffy, lol. It keeps the skeptic in me happy and the child full of wonder happy too, so it all works out, lol

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Ya know, even though it's supposed to protect people, how can you be sure it really was a hate crime? I mean you play that card and you're almost guaranteed to win but I honestly think people do abuse it. Ah well, sometimes I think that's what we do best in the states, abuse laws, lol

 

I'll be honest, I like keeping it secret. Because if I do choose to talk about withcy stuff to anyone I have to make sure I don't sound fluffy, lol. It keeps the skeptic in me happy and the child full of wonder happy too, so it all works out, lol

 

 

 

Oh don't get me wrong here...I'm not out there waving my broomstick. While it is no secret to those who know me that I am a witch, I still prefer to keep it silent for the most part. When I speak to those about witchcraft is it not anything resembling fluff in the least (sorry, but I"M not drawing a connection to your "I do choose to talk about withcy stuff to anyone I have to make sure I don't sound fluffy, lol" comment).

 

Not everyone goes around abusing laws here in the states DM.

 

Hate crimes come into play when a person is persecuted BECAUSE of their faith, gender, nationality, and/or sexual preference.

 

Let me set an example for you here. Mind you I like my privacy distance. Now say some local yoko should come over and oh I don't know...set up a dummy figure of a female witch tied to a stake, on top of wood and set it up in blazes in my front yard.

 

Do you think...knowing that I am a witch that THAT flaming witch dummy out in my front yard isn't a form of hate crime? It is. And you bet your sweetgrass smudge stick I WILL guarantee criminal charges to be placed against that person. It wouldn't be me charging them...but the state...along with a rather nasty and painful curse on their asses as well.

 

Now that is an extreme example mind you.

 

Everyone n my area knows darn well I am a witch (not fluff-n-stuff) and I have yet to have an eyebrow raised over it.

 

But yes if it ever should come down to it and I get someone stupid stepping to me because I am witch...the law is on my side. The same as with someone who is Jewish or Muslim.

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Some of you are lucky enough to be able to "come out of the closet", at work, at home, or both. I'm not. The majority of my accounting clients would fire me in a heartbeat if they knew I was a witch - only one knows, doesn't care and he is a close friend (and he reports to a board of directors who WOULD care). In my neighborhood there may not be a burning witch instead of a cross in my yard but life would be extremely difficult if our neighbors knew. Hell, they might even burn a cross for all I know. Blacks still know to be out of our county before sundown. The locals will take their tourist dollars but don't want to rub shoulders with them any more than necessary.

 

As Anjel pointed out, selling potions, no matter the use/result can result in charges even today. As a medical herbalist in Georgia I cannot *suggest* someone rub a drop or two of lavender oil on their temples for a tension headache and get a basket of apples in return as thanks without possibly being prosecuted for practicing medicine without a license. So, I don't do any herbal consulting. Laws in Tennessee are a little looser and there are times I wish I still lived in Minnesota!

 

In the meantime, I settle for being thought of as "a little strange". If my front porch was visible from the road, you can bet I'd already be out there cackling. I've always dreamed of being the old lady in the woods that scared the shit out of all the local kids. Got the old lady & woods part ... waiting on the kids.:wickedwitch:

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Guest Landieth
Oh don't get me wrong here...I'm not out there waving my broomstick. While it is no secret to those who know me that I am a witch, I still prefer to keep it silent for the most part. When I speak to those about witchcraft is it not anything resembling fluff in the least (sorry, but I"M not drawing a connection to your "I do choose to talk about withcy stuff to anyone I have to make sure I don't sound fluffy, lol" comment).

 

Not everyone goes around abusing laws here in the states DM.

 

Hate crimes come into play when a person is persecuted BECAUSE of their faith, gender, nationality, and/or sexual preference.

 

Let me set an example for you here. Mind you I like my privacy distance. Now say some local yoko should come over and oh I don't know...set up a dummy figure of a female witch tied to a stake, on top of wood and set it up in blazes in my front yard.

 

Do you think...knowing that I am a witch that THAT flaming witch dummy out in my front yard isn't a form of hate crime? It is. And you bet your sweetgrass smudge stick I WILL guarantee criminal charges to be placed against that person. It wouldn't be me charging them...but the state...along with a rather nasty and painful curse on their asses as well.

 

Now that is an extreme example mind you.

 

Everyone n my area knows darn well I am a witch (not fluff-n-stuff) and I have yet to have an eyebrow raised over it.

 

But yes if it ever should come down to it and I get someone stupid stepping to me because I am witch...the law is on my side. The same as with someone who is Jewish or Muslim.

 

For the most part we are protected, and I agree with Anjel. Any attempt at some religious/fanatical group's harassment would be against one law or another, and most likely seperate.

 

Do I still think it happens sometimes, yes.. but that's what guns, and Anjel's throwing stars are for. :) If you feel you need protection, get it, find it what ever.

 

I second the notion that dispensing 'remedies' would definately not be in your best interest unless you were completely familiar with the person.. and even then, you run risks - as with anything really. You just got to keep common sense and a level head with you at all times, be careful, and you should be fine.:bored:

 

.. who's coming after who with pitchforks?! :omg:

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Guest Landieth
Some of you are lucky enough to be able to "come out of the closet", at work, at home, or both. I'm not. The majority of my accounting clients would fire me in a heartbeat if they knew I was a witch - only one knows, doesn't care and he is a close friend (and he reports to a board of directors who WOULD care). In my neighborhood there may not be a burning witch instead of a cross in my yard but life would be extremely difficult if our neighbors knew. Hell, they might even burn a cross for all I know. Blacks still know to be out of our county before sundown. The locals will take their tourist dollars but don't want to rub shoulders with them any more than necessary.

 

As Anjel pointed out, selling potions, no matter the use/result can result in charges even today. As a medical herbalist in Georgia I cannot *suggest* someone rub a drop or two of lavender oil on their temples for a tension headache and get a basket of apples in return as thanks without possibly being prosecuted for practicing medicine without a license. So, I don't do any herbal consulting. Laws in Tennessee are a little looser and there are times I wish I still lived in Minnesota!

 

In the meantime, I settle for being thought of as "a little strange". If my front porch was visible from the road, you can bet I'd already be out there cackling. I've always dreamed of being the old lady in the woods that scared the shit out of all the local kids. Got the old lady & woods part ... waiting on the kids.:wickedwitch:

 

See it's the same here.. minorities of any kind are looked on with a hateful eye. People are just stupid, I've learned to deal with it and just keep what I don't want to be asked or harassed about to myself. Plus I like my secrecy.

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What I meant by that was that mostly no one around me believes in it, which is okay, but if I choose to talk about it I try to make sure I don't sound like a tin hat wearing loony. I mean, they know, they don't believe, and I've been mocked a few times before so I take great strides to explain things in non-magical terms. It usually ends up with an in-depth conversation about the mechanics of it, but for me it's much better than a pat on the head and a 'that's nice, dear. We're calling the men in white coats because you believe this works.' I still live at home and both my parents are huge skeptics.

 

As for hate crimes, I know not everyone abuses the law over here, and I've seen it do good and bad things. It's general theory and in some ways practice allows it to work the way that it intended and for that I'm glad it's there, but we can't discount that there are people who would take advantage of that. Sometimes a fight has nothing to do with your sexual preference, skin color, religion, or what have you, and I hate seeing people play that card when it wasn't motivated by those factors.

 

To me, in some cases, not all, using the Hate Crime card is horribly misrepresenting what that law is supposed to be about. It's supposed to protect us against obvious crimes of hate, like your burning witch example, or a gay guy being beaten and left for dead, it's not supposed to be used against someone when you do something to provoke an argument which has nothing to do with what the law covers. Sorry, I suppose I've seen too many Neo-Wiccans running around, flauting their religion in people's faces, and when they're met with sketicism and perhaps a little bit of antagonism they cry hate crime. I hate seeing it, especially because they claim it's totally unprovoked when nine times out of ten, they're just as bad as the Xtian fundies. The law is supposed to protect them but it's one of those cases where I wish it wouldn't because they're making a mockery out of it; I have honestly yet to meet a Neo-Wiccan who didn't provoke a fight or what-not and that is honestly sad. (I have still more thoughts on the whole thing but I feel I'm rambling)

 

Not to say that you would do any of that, I know you're way smarter than that Anj, but it's when people do things like that that piss me off. If you (in the general) don't want people to dislike you, you and not the religion you are, then don't provoke them and then turn around and call it a hate crime. People haven't honestly been hurt and possibly killed just so these idiots can take advantage of the system; it's there to prevent real acts of hate not prvoked arguments because they just needed to shove their views down someone else's throats.

 

tl:dr: Neo-Wiccan idiots make me angry when they use the hate crime card when they are provoking an attack, not on their beilefs, but on their person because they just have to tell everyone and make sure everyone knows even if that means being as vocal and obnoxious as they can about it. The law was there to protect people from real hate against their religion, sexual preferrence, skin color, ect, not because someone got punched in the face because they wont shut-up.

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What I meant by that was that mostly no one around me believes in it, which is okay, but if I choose to talk about it I try to make sure I don't sound like a tin hat wearing loony. I mean, they know, they don't believe, and I've been mocked a few times before so I take great strides to explain things in non-magical terms. It usually ends up with an in-depth conversation about the mechanics of it, but for me it's much better than a pat on the head and a 'that's nice, dear. We're calling the men in white coats because you believe this works.' I still live at home and both my parents are huge skeptics.

 

As for hate crimes, I know not everyone abuses the law over here, and I've seen it do good and bad things. It's general theory and in some ways practice allows it to work the way that it intended and for that I'm glad it's there, but we can't discount that there are people who would take advantage of that. Sometimes a fight has nothing to do with your sexual preference, skin color, religion, or what have you, and I hate seeing people play that card when it wasn't motivated by those factors.

 

To me, in some cases, not all, using the Hate Crime card is horribly misrepresenting what that law is supposed to be about. It's supposed to protect us against obvious crimes of hate, like your burning witch example, or a gay guy being beaten and left for dead, it's not supposed to be used against someone when you do something to provoke an argument which has nothing to do with what the law covers. Sorry, I suppose I've seen too many Neo-Wiccans running around, flauting their religion in people's faces, and when they're met with sketicism and perhaps a little bit of antagonism they cry hate crime. I hate seeing it, especially because they claim it's totally unprovoked when nine times out of ten, they're just as bad as the Xtian fundies. The law is supposed to protect them but it's one of those cases where I wish it wouldn't because they're making a mockery out of it; I have honestly yet to meet a Neo-Wiccan who didn't provoke a fight or what-not and that is honestly sad. (I have still more thoughts on the whole thing but I feel I'm rambling)

 

Not to say that you would do any of that, I know you're way smarter than that Anj, but it's when people do things like that that piss me off. If you (in the general) don't want people to dislike you, you and not the religion you are, then don't provoke them and then turn around and call it a hate crime. People haven't honestly been hurt and possibly killed just so these idiots can take advantage of the system; it's there to prevent real acts of hate not prvoked arguments because they just needed to shove their views down someone else's throats.

 

tl:dr: Neo-Wiccan idiots make me angry when they use the hate crime card when they are provoking an attack, not on their beilefs, but on their person because they just have to tell everyone and make sure everyone knows even if that means being as vocal and obnoxious as they can about it. The law was there to protect people from real hate against their religion, sexual preferrence, skin color, ect, not because someone got punched in the face because they wont shut-up.

 

 

 

 

DM you get that behavior in all walks of life. Someone being vocal about who and what they are is not always provoking a fight. I've seen (sorry for how I put this guys) flaming drag queens down here flaunting their lifestyle in society. That is NOT provoking a fight (most likely just flaunting who they are and not giving a damn as to who the hell knows it). Do I approve of their behavior? Nope. Not for me. Now if they were to get attacked (and a few years ago this was the such the case) as a result of this then that is known as a Hate Crime.

 

The idiot for example that smacked my car about a month ago when he was carrying his signs that read "God hates fags"/"God hates the United States"/"God created the terrorists to bomb the United States" on a public street corner...he was exercising his freedom of speech. I was ready and very willing to whoop his sorry ass because his views pissed me off to all levels. Do I respect his views? I have to. It is his RIGHT to have it and to VOICE IT. Do I agree with him? No and more than likely if I should ever run into him again on the street I would exercise my right to shove my American flag straight up his ass.

 

But basically the law(s) were created to protect not to be abused. Does it happen? Yes. Should I hide away because I am afraid someone will hurt me because of who and/or what I am? No. I refuse. Do I flaunt it? I don't shrink from it, nor will I hold up a sign that says "I'm a witch and proud of it".

 

But....if there ever came a time I would carry this sign in public (for example a peaceful demostration) you bet your ass I will. It's my right.

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Guest Bean Sprite

I don't hide from who I am, but I don't flaunt it. People think I'm a bit strange in these neck of the woods, which is ok because who wants to be normal anyways, but I don't wear a sign that say's, "Hi, my name is Nichole and I'm a witch", either. This town was founded by the KKK and still has the gaul to flaunt it on the town sign, so burning crosses and vigilanty justice still reigns in these parts. You only have to hear about TL's problems now to understand.

I don't have problems shooting a motherfucker who comes to harm me or my family though. I don't like violence, but self defence from the deliverance clan sometimes has to be taken into your own hands here. People kill people here all the time and get away with it by calling it a hunting accident, or they feed the body to the hogs. Hell, a man was shot in the back, while putting his daughter in a car seat, in town, across from the sheriff's station, in broad day light here, by his father in law and he never did a days time in jail.

IMO it's not anyones business what I practice anyways, and I say what I want, when I want, to whomever I want, so, I practice my freedom of speech well, but within reason.

Cackling, dressing funny, walking in the woods, foraging, making brews, expressing myself as I am, well, I can't help that. If I had to quit doing what makes me, me, then I might as well commit hara kiri.

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I have honestly yet to meet a Neo-Wiccan who didn't provoke a fight or what-not and that is honestly sad. (I have still more thoughts on the whole thing but I feel I'm rambling)

 

...what is a Neo-Wiccan anyhow?

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Nevermind. I just looked it up. DM we aren't Neo-Wiccans here...you know that...right???? So...hhmm...trying to connect the dots as to why you included that in your remark...oh well LOL!

 

Basically from what I gather...Neo-Wiccan is meant for new wiccan. OOoooooookkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk. Nope...doesn't apply here LOL!

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