Scott Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 Greetings All My my my ... so many "e's" in the one title ... well nevermind. Now I must say that I still don't know whether I was impressed or dissapointed with this one. It was neat to hear Doreen in her wee blurb at the beginning sounding terse about the way Wicca was going (ironic really I thought!!) and I must say that I was mightily impressed at Evan John Jones' statements to the effect that this is a construction of old bits to suit the present. Indeed in several spots along this just shy of 200 pages I found myself being impressed not simply by information but by the lucidly straightroward way it is offered. Down to earth and a certain amount of straight up make for pleasantry and believeability. One thing that tended to get my eye to twitchin' however is that all the way through, whenever he put forward something commonsensical and workable he seemed over and over again to follow it with some sort of wiccan apologism about the goddess. *Shrugs* There is also some very loose acceptance of Murray in there and in places it does make you tsk and click your tongue a bit. There are some gems in amongst the heavily wiccan oriented bits and (to my taste) overly florid poetry however and it does make a very good example of just how far one can track the changes in though from say the 60's to the 90's. With just a bit of squinting these tracks make for ease of identification of the age of some other modern texts of alleged age. BUT DO REMEMBER that here Evan is presenting a construction for modern audiences! Much of teh public Cochrane stuff is just that ... what one tells outsiders and here we have a specific effort to present something to stretch the average reader a bit without turning them off. Personally I found a couple of cool bits annd shoulders above most of what is about these days - even if (as I have said elsewhere) he does seem to have lost his way in one or two spots in the making of things harder than they need to be, including foreign manners etc ... I think I paid about $8 for my copy and don't feel slighted. Worth a read and a salting ... take some notes and then deconstruct - wil reveal more useful stuff than any other course of action. I'll recommend it but not laud it. Fraternally Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnjelWolf Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 When was it written Scott?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted January 31, 2007 Author Share Posted January 31, 2007 Greetings A.W Witchcraft - A Tradition Renewed - Evan John Jones & Doreen Valiente 1990 ISBN 0 7090 4139 x - Printed in Great Briatin by St Edmundsbury Press, Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk. Fraternally Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnjelWolf Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 Well if its the heavily wiccan influence you're after I guess that would be your book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RavensClaw Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 I've never read this so I might order it from the library instead of buying it. I've been thinking recently (feels the groans:eek:) and I've look over a few heavily flavoured wiccan books I have, and you know there are actually a few nugets of truth mixed in with all the pomp and crap. (shakes head in shame) I know its not a very trad thing to do but truth is truth, and no, I'm not turning wiccan. RC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnjelWolf Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 I've never read this so I might order it from the library instead of buying it. I've been thinking recently (feels the groans:eek:) and I've look over a few heavily flavoured wiccan books I have, and you know there are actually a few nugets of truth mixed in with all the pomp and crap. (shakes head in shame) I know its not a very trad thing to do but truth is truth, and no, I'm not turning wiccan. RC You know in all honestly and I might be the only person with this view on here...but I do feel that the very foundation of Wicca was taken/adapted/stolen/interpreted/etc, whatever from Traditional Witchcraft. Pretty much how someone can take a spell they find online and tweek it to their purpose. The Christian bible itself was written by man, as he interpreted it from previous writings. Some parts were left out, just like some parts were...er...hhhmmmm...embellished to suit their purpose. Like when Wiccans cast a circle...well in all actuality here...ceremonial magick pretty much does the same thing...so do we (we however simply cast a protective circle around us). I was talking with someone a few days ago about traditional witchcraft. This person had very honest questions because they are new and wanted to learn. The questions were like "Where can I get a book on this religion?", "I heard before you could be a trad witch you had to be initiated by another trad witch or perform a self dedication...where do I do this?" And a few others. These questions are pretty much based form Wiccan beliefs, which in turn were interpreted and adjusted to when they took bits and pieces from our life and other craft lives as well. Today I am so picky about my books...when I go look for a witchcraft book it literally will take me hours if not days to find something that catches my eyes. So many books are cluttered with Wiccan views that I simply find myself annoyed and end up walking out of the store. Even going out to witchcraft celebrations I find I tend to stay away from them (unless they are Native American), because of the heavily toned Wiccan themes now. And I don't want to come across as a "witchcraft snob" or anything like that but I simply do not wish to invest my energy into an event if all I pretty much hear is "Blessed Be", "May the goddess always shine her love upon your path." I appreciate where the person is coming from when they say this but yet at the same time I am screaming on the inside "I'm not fucking Wiccan you twit! Now get the fuck away from me before I hex your tits!" The one dominant theme I see in Traditonal Witchcraft is that the witches are pretty much loners. We rarely ever (if at all honestly, at least here in the states from what I could find out) gather in covens the way Wiccans do. We rarely ever gather on our celebrations and/or holidays (unless maybe it's a small selected group of family/friends). To me I find myself longing for that "connection" sometimes more strongly than others. Which is a reason why I am on here so much as I am. This group (though vastly separated by distance and time zones) is (in my tweeked ass eyes LOL) my "coven" I guess you could say. I look upon all of you as my family (notice I said family...not friends). Whatever happens to you, happens to me and yes I find comfort in knowing the feeling in both ways). I know in my heart that should anything god forbid happen to my husband while he is in Iraq...I would probably consider moving either to Scotland or to Germany to live, so that I could be beside those who are more like me than the people who live around me here in the states. Anyhow...I'm just talking I guess I don't know. Just another blonde rambling! LOL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RavensClaw Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 PMSL your not rambling, it made perfect sense to me. Personally I also find Wiccan's as a rule of thumb very irritating. Saying that I had a very good friend who had been a wiccan for well over 30 years and to be honest her style was closer to ours than neo-pagan fluffy bunnies. All I was saying is that here and there are nuggets of info, there very sparse but they are there. Hell there's even mention of witches in the bible! But yes, we do tend to be loners, pick our friends carefully and keep ourselves to ourselves. And yes, this forum to all intense and purposes is a coven! And yes we are family, through the witchcraft burning in our blood.... I like what you said Anjel, very moving. I am also not planning on going to any Wiccan parties soon..... or ever for that matter:rolleyes: RC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michele Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 I just got a copy of this book and took it up to the pub for a drink. (Someone there actually asked me if I "date" all of my books, lol.) I do agree that for one who wasn't familiar with the trad craft that has a spiritual side it would come off as totally Wiccan, and if I didn't know it was written by EJJ I would have probably tossed it. But as I know EJJ and have enjoyed his works I was interested to read it. I haven't got far into it yet, and the "nuggets" as Scott called them are definitely hidden within an "acceptable to the public" way, but then again, some forms of the craft are often "hidden in plain sight." Also, in all his mention of the goddess, I think many would assume it refers to the "white-light" goddess of some paths, but I believe that the path EJJ followed was deeply involved with the underworld "goddess of the castle" which is an extremely different realization of the goddess concept and if one re-reads it in that light it takes on a whole different nature. He refers to a circle rather than a compass, but in the time the book was written I think few would have known what a compass was (I wouldn't have), and again the book is written in a bit of a twisted and hidden way to be acceptable to the general public. EJJ was also heavily involved with a coven and obviousley found it of great benefit; therefore a lot of his wiritngs are geared to coven work although he does say that most things can be adapted to the individual. I do feel that most on this site would be highly uncomfortable with the rituals becuase of the strong Wiccan element and as such would not suggest running off to buy it, but again, I do find some very good bits and bobs hidden within the pages including the statement that magic mis-understood can be destructive to the individual and that the real lesson of the use of magic is to realize that the power is there. Anyway, for those interested in EJJ I would reccommend "Roebuck in the Thicket" and the new one by Shani Oates "Tubelo's Green Fire" rather than this particular book. Unless you can keep your mind totally open you will be tempted to slam the book shut - and that isn't dissing EJJ for I really do like and respect his work, lol. M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarasuperid Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 I like this book a lot. I have found that although there are similarities between various types of British craft, that the differences ring loud snd clear for me. This one like a few others Treading the Mill and Mastering Witchcraft for example aren't going to be attractive to everyone, but if you like those two I think you will like this one, but it is much heavier on the coven work side. Also has a lot if must do this way stuff, like needing an equal number of men and women plus one to be the Lady. Not so easy to come by perfect sets ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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