Elements Encyclopedias

[spinney]

The ones by Judika Illes are actually quite good.

The 5000 spells is great , the Magic and Witchcraft has a couple of iffy chapters but is generally interesting.

I got these as presents and Im enjoying flicking through them.

Hate the New age 'how to be a witch in 2 weeks ' style books out lately, these were suprisingly good, they are expensive but they are massive.

[AnjelWolf]

The ones by Judika Illes are actually quite good.

The 5000 spells is great , the Magic and Witchcraft has a couple of iffy chapters but is generally interesting.

I got these as presents and Im enjoying flicking through them.

Hate the New age 'how to be a witch in 2 weeks ' style books out lately, these were suprisingly good, they are expensive but they are massive.

 

Yeah I got the 5000 spells one as well as several others that are no longer in circulation. The new age "How TO Be A Witch" crap is what it is...commercial crap (we'll let the Wiccans have them :) )

[Guest wortmistress]

Yup, those encyclopaedias are great- a mix of Traditional,Wiccan, Voudoun etc. I too hate those Witchcraft 101 books. My supposed best friend bought me one two years ago- I thought" You really don't get it, do you?!". Some Trad. Paths are so wildly different to anything you may read but some books can nudge you in the right direction.

[AnjelWolf]

I was in a bookstore once a few years back and was thumbing through one of those 101 books (as mild entertainment) and saw a spell to instantly make a man want to have sex with you and another one to kill your boss...then they started preaching about free will thing LOL

[spinney]

I've decided to write one myself. Im fed up with being poor, just think how much money I could scam off of all of those poor little fluffies:rolleyes:

......Oh wait a minute Titania got there before me :patsch: ....Bitch!

[Sandy]

HAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!

[AnjelWolf]

LOL get em' all LOL

[LadyAlicia]

I have the Witchcraft, Secrety Societies, Psychic World, Magical Creatures and 5,000 Spells. I do enjoy them as a reference for a quick look up of terms and such. My grandaughter is positively bigged-eyed over the size of them. I am sure she is going to looke through them all. Gives me a golden teaching time. I do plan on getting the others as I can weed what doesn't work and what does.

 

Allie :flyaway:

[Ancestral Celt]

I have the 5,000 spells one, though I find it rather heavily infused with voodoun and santerian source materials. I also have the fabulous Magical Creatures book, which includes the Queensland Tiger (seen one yet, Scott? ;)) and a range of rare breeds.

[Guest Renegade]

I bought the 5000 one roughly about a year ago. I found it fascinating, and its great if you suffer from memory loss, but I don't feel it revealed anything I wasn't aware of. I think the biggest Wow! factor was the size of the book (the heftier the better in my opinion!)

 

I was a little bit disappointed with the whole "on your conscience be it - it will kick you in the ass" you got in some sections, but it was expected, and it doesn't give off an air of having been written on LSD!

 

Overall, pretty good reference for a mainstream book.

[Sandy]

I was a little bit disappointed with the whole "on your conscience be it - it will kick you in the ass" you got in some sections,

 

Actually as I have said on another thread, about Karma, this is actually true. If you have any guilt about what you have done, this is a negative energy and will attract more negative energy which can make your life hell and bring back luck. So yes, if what you do remains on your conscience, be prepared to be kicked in the arse.

 

When you work you HAVE to let it go completely, good and bad, and don't give it another thought.

[Guest Renegade]

Which is my point also. If you are constantly being told this will happen, it becomes ingrained, and if you can't find a reason for why things are going wrong for you, you end up thinking badly of yourself whether you are guilty or not. (because you are repetively telling yourself of the consequences of what will happen to these people, and it rubs off by thought association)

 

I know authors use this for covering themselves legally, but it feels disapproving everytime I read it whether intended or not - it isn't for them to judge, except in their own life.

 

With a book containing such a lot of spells that have the potential to hurt or be ethically unsound to some, it would be nice if they also acknowledged that if you know enough to make a spell of that nature sucessful, then you already know enough about the background of your craft without them having to sound preachy or condescending.

 

It knocks the edge off freedom a little, when my personal morality already cripples me in society to an extent.

[Sandy]

fair comment, but if you are a strong worker then you should be able to ignore the psychobabble anyway and take what you need when you need it.

[Guest Renegade]

For me it has nothing to do with how stong a worker you are. Its more do do with the fact you shouldn't have to learn to ignore it.

 

I, nor anyone else should have to turn emotionless and cold-hearted to read anything about witchcraft on the offchance that it might interupt your reading enjoyment. You let your guard down, and then there it is. The Pagan technobabble that as we know, we ALL agree completely on. I don't know anyone that buys a book for the purpose of being warned.

 

Its similar to the Catholic and Jewish guilt complexes reknowned for being handed down from Mother to child. If you are truly free to follow your own path, why the need to be told in every book you pick up? You may as well follow some orthodox rede if you are so open to being told how to act!

 

If people were not so concerned about PC (not that it is ever truly correct - its just there to be seen to be accepting rather than actually being accepting), and the implications of some idiot blaming the author for a spell they cast from the book going wrong, no-one would feel the need to mention it.

 

If it wasn't themed throughout each disputed section, you can bet your ass some Wiccan checking it out (I say some Wiccan, more likely the whole lot of them) would kick up a stink. It is as much something to keep you in your place as a warning that it may happen (and I don't believe for a second it would if you didn't have an active conscience). It doesn't ring true for everyone, and all it would need is one little sentence to acknowledge that rather than making it your business to see to it that every reader subscribes to it as written.

 

This is probably yet another reason why Trad books and info are so rare.

 

Like I said though, this book was overall a good reference, much better than some I've come across. Therefore, it stays firmly on my shelf (though the binding has come away now) and I skip over the bits I don't need to read - but idealy you shouldnt have to.

[Sandy]

True but these books arent written specifically for the Traditional Witch, they are written for the mainstream Pagan who wants to dabble, like you said there are no true good books on Traditional Witchcraft out there because a Traditional wouldnt write that kind of crap but then the book would fall into the wrong hands all hell would break loose. You would have uncontrolled energies flying around everywhere.

 

It does have to do with how you work. For example an inexperienced teenage witch trying to summon Demons and whatnot is far more dangerous than someone who knows how to keep control of what they are doing from start to finish and know how protect themselves.

 

Straying off subject there lol. Thing is if you are going to work magick you have to know what happens to it and how your own feelings and emotions can also have an effect on your whole wellbeing not just on the original intent.

 

Personally I dont have a problem with these books and their little warnings as I'm used to it, they have to cover their asses and sell to the main public - you can bet your ass someone will attempt to take them to court over a spell that went wrong. We have people sueing for ridiculous things these days and actually getting away with it!! What about the guy who sued MacDonalds because the burgers made him fat?? It's a different thing but same context.

 

At the end of the day, like all Traditionals, "I know what I know and I do what I do".

 

:hugs:

[Guest Renegade]

The inexperienced teenage witch is not as unintellegent as people assume. We were all in that position once where we didn't refer to books. With the inexperienced witch scenario as with the experienced practicioner, it is the intent that powers the spell.

 

Warnings are there trying to sway intent. If you are determined to work one way as opposed to another, you can't be swayed because you've already used your life experience knowledge to make that decision before you read that "advice", (inexperienced or not) it's who you are, it can't be changed, rendering such a warning useless unless it was intended to place a specific idea into your head, to cover your backside as we have agreed on, or both.

 

If you have not yet used this life experience to decide, then is it right to try to sway the undecided person into making a decision that should be their own? It may even persuade them that witchcraft is not for them, when unknown to them at the time it doesn't necessarily mean that.

 

It does state openly, clearly, and concisely that it is purely a reference book (as most do). It was the very reason I bought it, because I live in hope that one day I will find an unbiased book that is purely the reference it claims to be.

 

Even if it were to state it was intended for "dabblers" it is still not fair to A) assume only dabblers would have a use for it, and b) Assume that it is alright to tell someone that their morality is not acceptable and if they do not take the advice, that they have to be punished for it.

 

Murder in physical cold blood and the likes I can understand - but it was my own belief that you had the right to use the best method possible to combat discrimination and unfairness, protecting those that could not fight themselves, that led me to consciously use magic. Why would you use magic otherwise?

 

I have an interest in other magical cultures, but it doesn't mean I dabble to hedge my bets, or to be seen to be cool (it always fades quicker than hairdye if thats the case anyway, so no harm really. Its how you learn and grow). It doesn't mean I don't know what I'm doing just because I like to read these things.

 

Judika is a wonderful writer who has spent a lot of time gathering all this information together in a way that is not the usual practice and I applaud her for that, but what I had intended by pointing out the fact she HAD to put the warnings in and that I'm quite frankly sick of it, is that its a sad state of affairs that we are still having to put up with this, whatever you believe, whatever your level of experience.

 

I'm not going to put up and shut up just because it wasn't written with me specifically in mind. (I have my own way of taking care of that, and do not need to reley on a book by someone else to do that) It is however written for the masses and should therefore reflect that in good faith acknowledging sensitivities should you have them, so as to be a thoroughly enjoyable read.

 

It put a restriction in her work that left a bad taste in my mouth and it is no more fair on her than anyone else that she felt it had to be added. If anyone took it any other way, then I am truly sorry, but I stand by what I said. I'm not looking to cause rifts.

[Droghon]

Hi Renegade,

 

I don't think your causing a rift, I agree it can be annoying reading the standard disclaimers put on books. In an ideal world they wouldn't be needed, unfotunately the world is full of Lawyers and other 'learned' people who just love to insist on keeping their ass clear and putting their stamp on things.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if the publishers insisted on the disclaimers .. can you imagine their reaction if a no nonsense book on Trad Craft was ever proposed? I can hear the lawyers and publishers voiding their bowels right now

[Guest Renegade]

Exactly! It doesn't mean we shouldn't fight our little corner and give in completely to the slimebags though. A little leeway is all they'd get from me! Little additions to standard texts do wonders to keep them off your back, and state your rights at the same time. A little rebelliousness is necessary to avoid stagnation and the propagation of "The zombie culture"!

:cauldron:

[Sandy]

Whats the point in wasting your good energy on something you will never change?

 

I can understand your point and trying to encourage authors or editors to use something a little less blinding, but why get yourself in knots about it when we live in this kind of world?

 

You can fight all you want but it will be in vain. Wouldnt it be prudent to put your energy to something more worthwhile and personally rewarding?

 

Why not write a book yourself and write it exactly how YOU want to? :cool:

[Guest Renegade]

If you go back to the original posting, I wasn't getting in any knots. I've been getting in knots since because it seems you are trying to make an issue out of it, when we were supposed to be reviewing the book. Part of a review is to criticise when you see an imperfection. I'm not going to copy what others say am I?

 

I didn't have to explain what I meant by it. I didn't feel I had to, but as I thought this was the type of forum where explainations are not going to be picked to death (because its expected for someone to have an individual opinion) I would be free to explain without anyone else getting in too much of a pickle!

 

I'm not the type of person that stands back just because it doesnt personally affect me. I don't care whether or not nature needs both good and bad in the world to function. I'm not going to lie on my back and take everything, and I'm not going to let anyone suffer if I have got a say over it, when someone else comes along and tries to keep someone in their place. Fine, you are happy to put up with this. You may think it a smaller deal. Thats not me. I see this as a small part of a connected bigger deal. I don't think we need to pick it to death any further.

[Sandy]

No actually you have me totally wrong!!!

 

As you said this isnt a forum for picking, its a forum for DISCUSSION. The joys of the written word cannot bring across the way someone is feeling only how other people interpret it and you have certainly misinterpreted me on every occasion!

 

I was hoping other people would also comment about their personal views on what you had to say as it could have been a good discussion. It has nothing to do with nit picking or "making an issue", I just thought it would be an interesting topic.

 

"shrugs"

[Leigh]

As Sandy said, we discuss things here. You posted your opinion of the book and other people may now respond to your opinion, Renegade. The problem arose when you saw it as an attack. If you are going to share your thoughts, be prepared to discuss it with those who have a differing perspective. Neither side is obligated to agree, but there is no need to fight about it.

[AnjelWolf]

Just to add my two cents here ladies...and Brian...

 

this IS a forum solely for discussions. We may not like or agree what the other person has to say...but EVERYONE has a right to post their opinions.

 

And Renegrade...NOBODY was attacking you sweetie. Stop trying to fueling a fire that is clearly not there. :)

[Cairelle]

I guess I don't understand how a litigation- preventative warning for the moronic asses of the world infringes upon your personal freedoms Renegade? Or am I misreading your point?

 

And I also am not seeing anything being "picked to death". If you don't want your opinions debated or discussed, then don't post them. Otherwise, state your points and be done with it. There's no need to get defensive. We all agree to disagree with each other on occasion, and at the end of the day we're still all witches and online friends.

[Sandy]

:banana: