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Malleus Maleficarum


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#1 Guest_Bansheekisses_*

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Posted 14 October 2008 - 02:50 AM

I know we all know what it is, but how many of us have read it?
What does it mean to you as a historical document and what does it mean to you as a 21 centry witch?

My husband has a copy of this and he bugs me with it every chance he gets.

Edited by Bansheekisses, 14 October 2008 - 03:26 AM.


#2 Mountain Witch

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Posted 14 October 2008 - 01:17 PM

I have read it, as well as Reginald Scot's "The Discoverie of Witchcraft" which was a refutation of the MM. Quite frankly, the MM makes me ill - especially since I, as a practicing medical herbalist, would have been burned, hanged or drowned simply for trying to help people. Not to mention that I am "different" from my neighbors and that difference, herbalist or not, would have engendered the same results.

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Posted 14 October 2008 - 04:03 PM

It is a gruesome thing, yet I can't help but wonder if anyone in the USA would have these things done to them now a days? If so, would it be a private church type group doing it ( or cult like the KKK) or would it be government run?

Would they use the same kinds of test to determine guilt, or would they go for forensic evidence?


#4 soap fairy

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Posted 14 October 2008 - 04:36 PM

I've read it as part of my philosphy course and I think it's one of those documents that you have to view in the context of the time it came from where tourture was an acceptable practice {hey you the death penalty for stealing a loaf of bread and many others, this would have been applied to anyone including very young children}
Thats why I'm not sure that it would have that much relevance to the western world nowadays. There are still places {such as south africa} where people get killed for being witches and my views on that will have to wait for another day because I've got to go and get ready for work :happydance:not...

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#5 AnjelWolf

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Posted 14 October 2008 - 04:46 PM

MM would have no revelance in western lifestyle, simply because the laws have changed (as much as we might moan and groan about politics and other shit, admit it, life is a hell of a lot better today than it was back then). But it serves as a good learing tool.

IMHO, I think it is important to always keep in mind of what SF has already stated "you have to view in the context of the time it came from where tourture was an acceptable practice".

In other words...acknowledge it...learn from it...but in all reality it doesn't apply in these times (shudders as flashes back to Startellas video post)...at least for now.


#6 Guest_Bansheekisses_*

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Posted 14 October 2008 - 05:02 PM


In other words...acknowledge it...learn from it...but in all reality it doesn't apply in these times (shudders as flashes back to Startellas video post)...at least for now.



Do I even want to know what you are referencing or will I be scared for life?


#7 AnjelWolf

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Posted 14 October 2008 - 05:05 PM

Do I even want to know what you are referencing or will I be scared for life?


No.


#8 Dark Phoenix

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Posted 15 October 2008 - 12:45 AM

MM would have no revelance in western lifestyle, simply because the laws have changed (as much as we might moan and groan about politics and other shit, admit it, life is a hell of a lot better today than it was back then). But it serves as a good learing tool.

IMHO, I think it is important to always keep in mind of what SF has already stated "you have to view in the context of the time it came from where tourture was an acceptable practice".

In other words...acknowledge it...learn from it...but in all reality it doesn't apply in these times (shudders as flashes back to Startellas video post)...at least for now.



At least for now is right...You never know what may or may not happen...With everything thats going on ( like Anjel I am shuddering at the thought of Startellas thread ) who knows.

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#9 Tana

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Posted 15 October 2008 - 09:54 PM

I read it when I was first researching the play "Vinegar Tom". I have dipped into it since then. As an historical document it is fascinating...as a study of the capability of human nature, it is chilling. I was firmly 'in the broom closet' when my kids were young because of this aspect of human nature, which I don't believe has changed through the ages. I would urge all young mums to be equally cautious. The veneer of civilisation is very thin. We in the UK see this in the pack behaviour of young men out drinking. Ultimately I think that MM teaches us that people who fear us can be dangerous, whatever age you live in.
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#10 soap fairy

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Posted 15 October 2008 - 11:21 PM

I fully agree the civilisation mask slips off all to easily and yeah tana, young men {and women,,even worse in my view} doing the drunk pack hunt is probably one of the most terrifying things possible.
Another good book to read in Travesties and transgressions in tudor england {I need to double check the title and who wrote it.} It covers a lot of the things like women giving birth to cats etc
I think the modern equivilant is very much the debate that continues to rage about recovered memories and satanic abuse. Some of the attitudes coming out of the bible belt scare the :scared: out of me and the views about what heavy metal makes you do {sorry but WTF ..}

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#11 Guest_Bansheekisses_*

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Posted 16 October 2008 - 12:37 AM

I never understood how people could really think that heavy metal did anything , other than give you a headache from headbanging, or a few severe headaches from concerts and mosh pits.
My favorite aspect of that is " play it backwards, it says things". Honestly, how bored have you got to be,to do this? And that is the funny thing about language, you can make words out of others, by changing the order of the letters.


#12 soap fairy

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Posted 16 October 2008 - 07:31 AM

yeah , wasn't there one of the cases where the kids involved had spent a ridculous amount of hours up in their room listening to black sabbath records backwards trying to find messages... which immeadiatly makes me wonder {as a person who listens to heavy metal} what was so wrong with them that they didn't have a social life?

Sorry a bit off topic.

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#13 Guest_Bansheekisses_*

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Posted 16 October 2008 - 03:39 PM

So, to get back on topic, what do you all find the most offensive/bone chilling part of the MM?

#14 AnjelWolf

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Posted 16 October 2008 - 03:42 PM

So, to get back on topic, what do you all find the most offensive/bone chilling part of the MM?


The overall concept of the idea behind MM


#15 Mountain Witch

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Posted 16 October 2008 - 03:51 PM

The overall concept of the idea behind MM


Ditto.


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Posted 17 October 2008 - 03:46 AM

So, when the MM is brought up there is not a certain trial or death method that sticks out to you as especially cruel or vial?

#17 AnjelWolf

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Posted 17 October 2008 - 04:51 AM

So, when the MM is brought up there is not a certain trial or death method that sticks out to you as especially cruel or vial?


No. Overall I just think the overall concept behind mm was especially cruel and vial. Not to mention displays the total ignorance of humankind.


#18 Michele

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Posted 17 October 2008 - 12:00 PM

what scares me most about it is the idea of killing and torutre due to fear. We all feel safe and secure in our little homes, thinking the world has evolved and that can never happen again.
Tell that to the Jews ... there are many alive today who still bear their tattoos.... tell it t the "witch" who was run out of town by the pastor friend of Palin, tell it to Ryan White... tell it to a rape victim.....
we are always but a stone's throw away from a mob mentality... THAT is what scares me.


#19 soap fairy

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Posted 17 October 2008 - 01:36 PM

What scares me most of all is the pricking {trying to find a spot/growth that didn't bleed} because there is a long standing theory that many of the women that did it would have had bobbins where the point withdrew so they could say they had found just such a spot.
which goes to the horrid part of the witch hunt and many things afterwards {communism, naziism}
People were accused/burnt/killed/imprisoned because 1 person didn't like them so accussed them.:frown:

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#20 Guest_Bansheekisses_*

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Posted 18 October 2008 - 12:23 AM

what scares me most about it is the idea of killing and torutre due to fear. We all feel safe and secure in our little homes, thinking the world has evolved and that can never happen again.
Tell that to the Jews ... there are many alive today who still bear their tattoos.... tell it t the "witch" who was run out of town by the pastor friend of Palin, tell it to Ryan White... tell it to a rape victim.....
we are always but a stone's throw away from a mob mentality... THAT is what scares me.

I agree, I dont like the mob mentality of society. You look or act differently and people tend to avoid you like the plague.
You can be the nicest person on the block, but if you keep weird hours and a do things other people wouldnt dare, they tend to avoid you.
Which is a stones throw away from pointing thier finger and saying " there she goes! BURN HER!"
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