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Gods? Goddesses? or Agnostic?


Sandy

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As you may not have realised Droghon and myself believe in more agnosticism, one that is within ourselves - our spiritual "higher self" if you will. We believe that this energy is of course within everyone and everything living, however, we do not necessarily need to call it a "God" or give it a "name".

 

Most people use the term God or Goddess to refer to the way they are thinking or feeling but what is God really to you? Isn't "God" just our own energies combined? Our own higher self?

 

Personally, I cannot summon any energy when I think of "someone" up there - a 3rd party - looking down on my every move. No, no, no, that just doesn't work for me. If it works for you, then thats great - but I do tend to think this is rather a Wiccan trait.

 

I am responsible for what I put out and this is where karma comes into play.

 

A few have mentioned that "you are lucky that karma hasnt come back because you may have done something that maybe you shouldn't have without realising". Karma doesnt work like that.

 

Karma is your own energy. When you lead a life and do things that you personally feel is the "right thing" to do at that time, karma will not come back. It is when you do something that you KNOW is wrong, which instantly creates guilt. Guilt is a negative energy and which will attract more negative energies around you - bingo, you have karma.

 

It is all in your mind, your being, your higher self. I work on this principle and my life has never been richer or more fulfilling.

 

My mentor did not teach me this way, I found out myself that the secret of the craft is that there is actually no secret - the secret is within your own self.

 

Sandy :yingyang:

 

Additional Note:

Please see my other newer thread below that gives another angle on what I mean. This original thread was supposed to be non-judgemental healthy debate with open minded people but was rudely sabotaged :patsch:

 

Here is a link to the new thread - looking at my thoughts from another perspective:

 

http://www.traditionalwitch.net/forums/showthread.php?p=378#post378

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Guest wortmistress

So many factions have their Horned God, The Lady, The God and Goddess. This is one tenet of Trad. craft I cannot embrace in the "traditional" way. I believe that everything that exists has energy, a divine spark as it were. For me there is no literal deity only the energy which I have always known as The Great Spirit. This spirit isn't a lofty being in the sky,but pervades all that exists, including very much in me. This energy can be tapped for postive and negative actions and obviously your intent sways the result! Most of that which exists is male or female so sure, many practitioners of magic, the Old Ways etc. personify their deities. Some see them as actual,living spirits, some as once having strode the land.Me? The jury is still out! I believe that some of us have lost the ability to connect psychically,as this part of the brain is now dormant. Some schools of thought say that long ago, when this part was active, we had the ability to communicate with higher beings- this could explain psychic powers, mediums etc.Another thought, is that the gods etc are mere archetypes that we access from our sub-conscious mind. Again, evidence shows that people from around the world had similiar Gods and there was NO WAY that they could reach each other physically. I think ultimately I address the Gods as one source, containing both male and female, and when working ritual etc, a male energy may be deemed more conducive at a certain time than a female, and as this spirit contains both, there is no problem separating. This challenges one of the uses of the stang, but I still use to honour polarity.I personally love the Green man archetype- I say archetype because sources state that he may not have been in existence for that long and also he personifies the wilder side of nature. Personally I ignore such claims to antiquity(or not as the case is here). I believe that he has existed in various forms since the dawn of time. He is simply another facet of the Spirit,Hell, he doesnt even have to be male!! I would find is fascinating if all on this form could share their views on this topic- It's a very meaty topic!! :hugs:

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Guest Elder RavenFire

This makes me sad It really does. A Witch holds their teaching to heart. The first thing, and being Trads I thought you all knew this. The Lord, and Lady is what makes us, us. They gave the first Witches the knowlage of Witchcraft. Amd from that time on, it has been past down, form Witch to Witch. Yes, we do have a Higher self, and we are our own God, and Goddess. We are all one with the Lord, and Lady. This is to my teaching. I hold it dear. And to see people who openly call themselfs "Witches" deney the Lord, and Lady. That saddens me. Deeply. The greatest teachers of all, are the Lord, and Lady. The greatest protecters, and they get tossed aside. I don't pass jugement, Thats not at all what I'm saying. It's just, the ones that gave us life, and the gifts of the Craft, they get forgotten. Some beleive for a minute or two, others, just don't care, or are scared to admit to haveing them in their lives. I'm not. There is no shame in them. They gave us the Craft, and they gave you, yes even if you don't want to admit it. They gave you what Craft gifts you have. They passed on their knowlage to us. This is what I think about this. I mean not to offend, but this this really really hurts.

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RavenFire, you do not belong to this path or this forum. I wish you well in finding yourself. Perhaps you should try a more Wiccan or even Christian based forum? Bye Bye now. :roll:

 

 

Wortmistress .. its so wonderful to read your posts I am actually wanting to invite you over to visit me in Germany for a week :)

 

Do you feel the energy and the spirits around you when you walk through a forest, along a stream, up mountains .. isn't it just beautiful, the emotion, the connection, the being alive!

 

I always feel so much lighter and contented after I have spent some time with nature. The energy of the universe, nature, it is so exhilarating!

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Guest wortmistress

That's the sound of me holding back tears! Thank you so much for your kind words. Yes, I do feel the same when walking through forest etc.I feel like Maria from the Sound of Music.! LOL. I feel the energy and often know that I am being watched by an entity or spirit. As long as no offence is given(i.e. taking without permission, rubbish leaving etc..)I am usually guaranteed a spiritua land refreshing time. I observe every leaf, flower, bark pattern and marvel in it's beauty, it's power. I notice the change in atmosphere when I visit these places and envision living in a little cottage nestled amongst the trees! I work alot with herbs(I used to be a Health Shop manager until recently)they en-trance me! Re: Germany-How lovely! I took French and German 'A' levels many, many years ago(O.K I'll tell- I'm 34 and proud!) and so have visited Germany many times as a teenager . I also think when you come to England in the Spring I have to meet you and Droghon. We seem to have so much in common- By the way I have surfed your other site.(Love it!!!)

W.M.xxx

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aww, well I really did mean it. I was talking to Droghon last night on the phone and even said that I feel as though I "know" you and that I would even like to invite you over :) ... kindred spirits!

 

Maria in the Sound of Music HAHAHA -- YEAH! That's it - although if I sang I have to admit that all of natures animals will run away and hide and the tree spirits will allow an extra thick heavy branch to fall on my head.

 

Glad you liked my other site btw - I have another but it is um, not quite as tame :oops:

... if you are TOTALLY open minded, pm me and Ill give you the link :o

 

We really will all have to meet up - that would be so fantastic!

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Going back to the God conversation. Such Gods like Pan, the God of Nature, for example, is one way to work with and understand the energy in nature. Goddesses like the "Moon Goddess" (Diana or Artemis) if you like, is another way to work with or look at the power the moon energy can have on our everyday lives.

 

We can incorporate many deities for everything we do to help ourselves become closer to the *divine, if you feel the need to personify your beliefs to help you reach your result.

*divine meaning your higher self - the universal energy, not divine as in Lady, Lord, Jesus or the Madonna*

 

I, admittedly, do use the term God myself but I mean it as the Universal energy combined - the higher consciousness of all things, in, on and around this Earth, and one you can tap into :)

 

By the way, the "Lord and Lady" to me personally means absolutely nothing. There is no need to get upset because we do not agree and it does not mean we are scared of them either HAHA. It simply means that some of us do not look upon it and believe in our traditional faith the same way you believe in your faith or path, whatever that may be.

 

Perhaps the Lord and Lady can be seen as Positive and Receptive energies? Who knows?!?! :?: It certainly doesn't work for me.

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Greetings All

 

It is interesting I think to see how others interact with their Gods (even be those gods themselves - but I am getting ahead of myself now) because I think it says a LOT about the PERSON involved and less about the gods and this thread seems to be exemplary! :D

 

For example, (without wanting to push my boundaries too far) I have several gods. Oddly enough I find that although I most often refer to them as "other" it cannot, in any way be truthfully considered so. Most certainly I have been shown beyond any shadow of doubt that they are external agency compared to me but well ... I am an egocentric who tends to see everything as being somehow me - if it is lucky! :lol:

 

Hmmm ... what does this say about me? hahahaha

 

Consider .. the other night just before retiring, the missus says:

 

"Get on out there and clear the yard ... there is a something on the front path"

"Really? What kind of a something?"

"A not our sort of something with mean piggy wee red eyes"

 

Oooo! I think .. "this could be fun" and off I dutifully trot in my finest ritual "pull on so as I don't freeze the goolies off" robe. I do my usual extensions and am somewhat nonplussed to discover that it's tighter than a banacle's behind and not about to start shifting for anyone.

 

Hmm ... So I do another quick bit and am somewhat surprised to discover that I am answered by a goat form that presents itself as opposed to my usual "first base" intermediary. I am even more surprised when all I can hear in the back of my head is a voice saying: "Bugger off back to bed and mind your own business!" :shock: Indeed! How uncouth! ;)

 

Hmm ... so I do as I am told obviously as I have found over the years that however the tone; the info is generally for the best. I shamble back down the hallway scratching the bonce and wondering what the hell is going on. I do the usual stop at the fridge and pour a drink and have a think..... Nope .. brain not work .. total blank. *Shrugs*

 

I go back and say: "Well aparrently 'tain't nuthin to do with us ... even though it's on our front path" I sit on the bed and we mull it round a bit ... nope still nothin. Not until I get into bed again does a wee lightbulb flare up inside the marble dome ... ohhh .... while it is there ... I am seeing IT and not anything else ... and nothing else is seeing me ... they are looking at IT too ... sooo it is guardian in a targetty sort of way ... ohhhh hmmm ok.

 

Which in turn would mean that in essence it shouldn't need to have anything to do with me at all ... just as I was told.

 

Needless perhaps to say I tend to see the gods as the bigger sibling me's that I would be were I not so busy being me ... hmmm ... but then again I am also one of those people who talks to themselves a lot! As I often say ... that way I am assured of decent and intelligent conversation with someone who actually understands my madness well enough to empathise ... if not sympathise! ahhahaha

 

Oh dear this post has somewhat fallen apart and not adressed the goal I had in mind at all ... hmmm mebbe the other me's are saying something to some other me who may be reading! *Shrugs*

 

Fraternally

 

Scott

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Greetings W.M, All

 

I observe every leaf, flower, bark pattern and marvel in it's beauty, it's power. I notice the change in atmosphere when I visit these places and envision living in a little cottage nestled amongst the trees!

 

Once upon a time I lived in a tiny log cabin with no phone or electicity up in the mountains and it was awesome! These days I am in teh heart of Upper Mt Gravatt but it has neighbours on only one side with a big side yeard faced in with bamboo and a runoff creek down there back. In teh warmer months (as we are gtting into over here now) we have wonderful big water dragons some up to 50 cm or so come tromping up from teh bamboo to run about in teh yard. We alos have possums ... one big snake (if she is still about) who is about ohhh what 2 or 3 meters and last night we were thrilled to see an owl!

 

Everyone who comes here wanders out onto our back balcony site for a bit and just gets refreshed totally. *Sigh* Which is of course as we are all saying ... not occult - but 100 per cent REAL MAGIC! *G*

 

Fraternally

 

Scott

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Guest wortmistress

I lived for 6 months in Eaglehawk, near Bendigo, Victoria. The house we lived in was in a forest, wooden, very eco-friendly.we had roo's, snake's literally on our door step and as you say, the real magic is here, now, available to all- It's just that some of the world doesn't believe in magic anymore...

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Geetings W.M

I lived for 6 months in Eaglehawk, near Bendigo, Victoria. .... the real magic is here, now, available to all- It's just that some of the world doesn't believe in magic anymore...

 

Yup - some fabulous country round there .. as for them not believeing well yes I used to feel sad for them but then the greedy bugger in me cheered me up immensely by reminding me that that state of affairs simply means "Won't indulge hunh? Goody! More for me then!" :D hahaha

 

Fraternally

 

Scott

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Guest WickedStitch
As you may not have realised Droghon and myself believe in more of a Gnostic God, one that is within ourselves - our "higher self" if you will. We believe that this energy is of course within everyone and everything living, however, we do not necessarily need to call it a "God" or give it a "name".

 

Personally, I cannot summon any energy when I think of "someone" up there - a 3rd party - looking down on my every move. No, no, no, that just doesn't work for me. If it works for you, then thats great - but I do tend to think this is rather a Wiccan trait.

 

I am responsible for what I put out and this is where karma comes into play.

 

It is all in your mind, your being, your higher self. I work on this principle and my life has never been richer or more fulfilling.

 

My mentor did not teach me this way, I found out myself that the secret of the craft is that there is actually no secret - the secret is within your own self.

 

Sandy :yingyang:

 

I could not agree more. I have followed my own 'path' as it were, since I was a child. *Of course I was not aware that it had a name until I was much older.* Mainly due to the fact I could just not dig on the idea of some old man sitting high atop the clouds just watching us, judging us and allowing bad things to happen. I was around 9-10 yrs old. When I would question certain things in Sunday school, they would avoid me like the plague. Eventually I just stopped going. Though I would still leave the house...on the way to the church I would walk through this HUGE field of wild flowers and stones. I would spend time in that field.

 

It was during this time that I saw/felt the natural energy, the universal all, the mesh, web etc. I could feel in myself that this is what it was. The air was fresher, the sun was brighter, you could just FEEL the nature applauding my realization. As Sandy stated, " the secret of the craft is no secret, the secret is within your own self."

 

Too many times, as I have seen; people are lazy to seek for themselves, for it requires too much effort. They would much rather be spoon fed. (read as...being told what to do, when to do it, and HOW to do it, aka Wicca)

 

To be a witch, one must be responsible for his or her own actions. If you are worried about some 3 fold karmic ton of crap coming down upon you...for doing something ethically questionable...IMHO you may as well be Christian, waiting for God to smite you down as you walk.

 

It seems to be human nature for most people to look to a higher being, God/dess. It is in a way the human race seeking approval from it's parents.

 

This is just my 2 cents worth... well ok maybe 10 cents. ;)

I apologize if I am toe stepping, especially for being new to the forum.

 

~ Regina

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Welcome WickedStitch,

 

treading on toes? nah, you're fine here, if Wiccans or anyone with 'fine sensitivities' reads this .. well they should see that the site is for Traditional Witches, and our beliefs my not agree with their view of things ;)

 

Welcome once again, glad you've joined and hope you enjoy yourself here.

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I think it is very easy to see it in youngsters, which ones are the "Earth Children". My eldest loves the nature and collects rocks and pretty stones for me all the time. My youngest doesn't seem to give a hoot and he has a slight evil streak, which needs to be tamed if he wishes to progress spiritually.

 

The strange thing is that my youngest seems to attract negs - not bad ones, just "half entities" if you like. I have managed to get rid of 3 so far in his bedroom that torment him in his sleep. So maybe his evil streak is his way of dealing with them, or his evil streak attracts them. Deep down he is extremely sensitive but his outer personality makes him appear like a spoilt bully.

 

Funny how two children can be so different.

 

.. by the way .. there is no overstepping here unless you act like our X-member Ravenfire, who was a Wiccan gone bad.

 

Welcome again Wicked Stitch and if you have time, maybe write a little bit about yourself in the intro area of the forum :)

 

Sandy xx

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Guest wortmistress

Yes, my toes are fine! Whilst I don't share the EXACT view of some of the others(although very similar), I totally dig what is being said. We are friendly here, and healthy debate is good, but we are being cautious after a wee incident a few weeks ago. Funny thing is, I've glanced at other Trad. sites and they are getting nasty!!Let's be honest,not fluffy bunnies, and let's keep the respect rollin'!!:hugs:

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So far we have a lovely circle of people on here, I just hope that new members will also come on board with the same respect and friendliness. If we all believed or thought the same way then this forum would be empty :). It is healthy to have your own beliefs and I love hearing about what others believe in and how they work, as long as the preaching doesn't start :)

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Guest WickedStitch
Welcome WickedStitch,

 

treading on toes? nah, you're fine here, if Wiccans or anyone with 'fine sensitivities' reads this .. well they should see that the site is for Traditional Witches, and our beliefs my not agree with their view of things ;)

 

Welcome once again, glad you've joined and hope you enjoy yourself here.

 

As long as they DO read the site is for Traditional Witches; and understand what that means. I have come across many confused pagans over the years. Of course I guess it is easy to get confused with so much info that claims to be the 'real' stuf. LOL:eek:

 

Thanks for the Welcome!

~Regina

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Guest WickedStitch

 

.. by the way .. there is no overstepping here unless you act like our X-member Ravenfire, who was a Wiccan gone bad.

 

Welcome again Wicked Stitch and if you have time, maybe write a little bit about yourself in the intro area of the forum :)

 

Sandy xx

 

LOL yes, I have read some of the posts concerning him.:patsch:

No worries about me acting like that buffoon, I promise you!

 

~Regina

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Guest WickedStitch
Yes, my toes are fine! Whilst I don't share the EXACT view of some of the others(although very similar), I totally dig what is being said. We are friendly here, and healthy debate is good, but we are being cautious after a wee incident a few weeks ago. Funny thing is, I've glanced at other Trad. sites and they are getting nasty!!Let's be honest,not fluffy bunnies, and let's keep the respect rollin'!!:hugs:

 

NIce to "meet" you and everyone else here! :hugs:

A debate is always good, until it turns into a witch war. Too many times, in live and online groups someone gets a swelled head or the fluffies get pissed at being called out on being fluffy and swear they are SO NOT fwuffy! It just gets ugly from there with glitter and fluff flitting about! LOL

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Guest wortmistress

Funny thing alert! I was asked outright on my other forum what my path was. I was suitably evasive, not surprising considering the hassle I have had off them recently! I said some may or may not do this or that-It's all very individual. I think I confused them, which is great-I certainly am not any sort of spokesperson for this path, being an infant. Secrecy to me is important-not because I feel that we are better or more evolved than other paths, but simply because it is individual to the person. We can't put ourselves into a box. Sure Alex. and Gard. Wiccan's have rules etc. but the rest are eclectic. As I currently have no teacher, no guidance, I can only trust my instincts, my heart. After the problems that I've experienced recently regarding lack of respect for my opinions on that site, I am certainly not going to be giving them any ammo.- who needs the crap? The recent non-respect we experienced was echoed on another forum and without being judgemental, it was from a group of English Trad. Wiccans. It is often said that Trads. are the ones poo-pooing Wicca but sadly in my experience it is quite the reverse. I came from Wicca,briefly, and as they say, all paths lead to the truth/God. Such universal truths need to be personally remembered in times of despair, and I certainly have found solace in my old Zen Buddhist teachings, Gandhi's wisdom and the soothing words of Droghon, Scott and Sandy. It's such a shame when people adopt masks to play a role, representing a certain faith,and then ruin it for others with disdain and disrespect. I think that we still have a great group here, despite a recent glitch, and from experience of the other forum, I can honestly say that you are all mature, spiritually aware people. It's an absolute pleasure to post here-it's just a shame we don't live closer to each other.I feel that we could develop even further as people. Well, I'm off now to a moot, playing MY music,how I want, singing to the Gods,Huzzah!!W.M.xxx:D:D:D

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Well any flaming and back biting is absolutely not tolerated here. There are many other forums where that goes on and I don't want it here. If people join up and start that they will be immediately banned.

 

Thank you Wortmistress for your lovely words, also mentioning that I also have soothing words .. sure I do most of the time, until someone totally pisses me off - I think we have all had a giggle about my sharp tongue over the "Elder" issue eh?... I can't help it when someone so outwardly deserves it :patsch: LOL

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I think we're all adult enough to be able to respect other's point of view without necessarily agreeing with it. As Sandy mentioned we won't tolerate abuse of members of the forum by anyone.

 

I've seen this happen on lots of Trad forums, why people join knowing it's a Trad site and then getting pissed off when Trads don't share their vies is beyonf me, but hey it can lead to some amusing threads in retrospect ;)

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... certainly allows my tongue to be set loose for a bit :stinky:

 

HAHAHAHA well that's healthy Sandy, you have to let it out every so often rather than hold it in otherwise it just poisons your own system.

 

:cool:

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