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Traditional Craft by Startella


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#61 Anara

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 12:30 AM

As far as I am concerned, the less dogma, the better. I am glad trad craft is not so structured. I can only speak for myself, of course, but witchcraft is not a "life interest". I am a witch-plain and simple! Hey, many of us have been casting since we were children even-often without realizing it! There is nothing wrong with a purely intuitive & spontaneous approach to the craft, in my honest opinion. For some, that is what works best!

 

I would never discourage someone from this path...if this is who they are-no matter how many mistakes they make, or tell them to be observers instead-no way. A witch, is a witch, is a witch...(as someone said here somewhere in the forums).

 

Also, my craft is fun and I cherish that. Why in the world would I want it not to be? Some things I do learn just for fun, some things I do just for fun. I would never let anyone tell me what I can or cannot do, or what I can or cannot experiment with- that is up to me to decide-as it is every individual witch.

 

I am sorry, SammCrow, but I have to respectfully disagree with much of what you say here. Some of it I resonate with and agree with, but much of it I don't.

 

On the other hand, to each his own. Your opinions are your own and I can respect that too.

 

I will end my post on this note-I absolutely agree that we should always continue growing, learning, and evolving! This path is a lifetime of learning. (BUT-if someone has attained a certain skill set and they like being "comfortable" there...so what? Let them be comfortable-it is their craft...right?) I also agree that it is always better to be kind, if you can. Third, I wholeheartedly agree that people new to the craft should never, ever be ashamed of their efforts. It is all part of learning and gettting better, and something we all go through to get to that next level.

 

JMO :)


Edited by Anara, 07 April 2014 - 12:31 AM.

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#62 Autumn Moon

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 12:53 AM

I don't like dogma either, unless it has a immutable law behind it, but on the whole, I like to do things my way. Sometimes that is a composite of things from peers, learning, and my own ingenuity.

 

One cannot cook without getting burned at some point, one cannot swim without actually getting into the water. Minimize the risks as much as possible, but if you always stay in the chair and watch, then that's all you will ever do. The 'doing' is where real learning takes place.


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#63 Wexler

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 02:41 AM

I really admire your post Samm, and I agree with a lot of it. You've said some things I have been trying to put in to words for a long time.

 

 

 

If you are new to the craft, please do not confuse traditional or even eclectic witchcraft with shoddy craft.  [...] Traditional witchcraft is not always without rules, but its less structured (my opinion) than wicca, less dogmatic.  But you must not confuse this more intuitive shamanic approach with a make-it-up-as-you-go carelessness.

I agree with this. I don't think many people here confuse traditional craft with shoddy craft :tongue: But I do think there is a pervasive sense (perhaps not on TW, but elsewhere) that 'eclectic' means 'borrow from anything and do whatever you want.' Between learning intuitively and learning with a teacher, I couldn't say if one is better; but I think both are superior to piecemeal nonsense. I have seen it said on this forum - more than a few times - something along the lines of "I like traditional witchcraft because I can do whatever I want." In once sense that is correct; there are no dogmatic rules holding you back from doing as you please. But there ARE rules. As one member here said, "you can do whatever you want but that doesn't make it traditional witchcraft.

 

 

We all go through learning periods when we wish we knew more than we actually know, and our practices and skills will be weak and maybe even silly in some ways.  Don't be ashamed by your early efforts.  Its part of learning and getting better.  But even once you get comfortable with your skills, do not settle for comfortable.  Do not be content with mediocrity.  Any good witch will always assure you that there is never an end to learning and growing better.  It is a lifelong pursuit.  In Wicca, there were many who tried to shortcut their access to third degree, and if their mentors were lax they only ended up as third degree idiots who didn't know anything they really needed to know.  You cannot shortcut learning.  It takes time and patience and sincere dedication to the wisdom of your tradition.  Finally, once you reach the top and are admired by so many for your deep knowledge and skills, well...don't buy that shit for one minute.  Let others think as they will, and be kind to them, but know in your own heart of hearts that much has been lost over ages of terror and oppression.  The secret wisdom of the ages is still secret to all of us, and just because you may know a lot more than most, it doesn't mean that you know all you need to know.  Those at the top are the ones most responsible for "stretching the envelope" and adding to our knowledge, recovering the lost secrets, and improving on what others before you have already tried to improve.  What I'm saying to us all is that ignorance is our common lot, but so is curiosity and the thirst for wisdom, so with dedication and perseverance we can and should continue studying and learning and practising and growing in our craft from the day we start on our path to the day we croak (ribbit!).

I can't say I'm 100% on board with the concept of 'top' witches doing research to benefit us all, like they have a PhD in Witchcraft and are doing studies to benefit the undergrads :tongue: I imagine there are quite a lot of top witches who are focused on their own lives and have no desire to stretch the envelope, so to speak. Perhaps this is different in some pagan circles? But otherwise I like what you've said. There are no shortcuts to learning. There are things I've done years, months, and even weeks ago that make me feel embarrassed when I think back on them. But it's all part of the learning process and necessary for growth.

 

 

Every act of magick must be wilful and deliberate, and if you become blase' in your studies and practice, you will at best become incompetent and at worst become dangerous to your own good health.  Magick is unforgiving of stupidity.  You can make mistakes as you learn.  We all make mistakes as we learn, and later.  But if mistakes and carelessness are your natural predilection, I recommend you find another life interest and follow this one as an observer.  There is so much to learn here, and it truly is fun to learn, but you can't learn just for fun.  It's not a game, it's a craft.  Wood-carving is also a craft.  The blade is unforgiving if you are careless, and so is magick.

I agree with both you and Anara on this one.

 

In my situation, I think I agree that all magic should be willful and deliberate, but there is a connotation of somberness to that I don't adhere to. I think there is a difference between a witch who is serious on their path and also uses magic for fun, and somebody who doesn't care about their path and uses magic for fun. I am serious on my path, but I also use magic in self-centered, hedonistic, frivolous, and downright irresponsible ways. I cast deliberately but I still choose to cast in ways people on this forum may consider to be irresponsible or even stupid. I think that spells can be learned and used for fun, but magic as a whole should not be a game. I take it seriously, but I do not take it somberly. To me that is an important distinction.


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#64 Nikki

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 12:00 PM

I am serious on my path, but I also use magic in self-centered, hedonistic, frivolous, and downright irresponsible ways. I cast deliberately but I still choose to cast in ways people on this forum may consider to be irresponsible or even stupid. I think that spells can be learned and used for fun, but magic as a whole should not be a game. I take it seriously, but I do not take it somberly. To me that is an important distinction.

 

Ok, maybe I'm just not fully awake yet.. Wexler, are you saying (for clarification sake) that one's approach to spell-casting, whether it somber or frivolous, is the 'important distinction' to ones Path? 


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The difference between Medicine and Poison is the Dose. :oil-bottle:
I Love you as certain Dark Things are to be Loved,
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#65 Wexler

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 03:51 PM

 

I am serious on my path, but I also use magic in self-centered, hedonistic, frivolous, and downright irresponsible ways. I cast deliberately but I still choose to cast in ways people on this forum may consider to be irresponsible or even stupid. I think that spells can be learned and used for fun, but magic as a whole should not be a game. I take it seriously, but I do not take it somberly. To me that is an important distinction.

 

Ok, maybe I'm just not fully awake yet.. Wexler, are you saying (for clarification sake) that one's approach to spell-casting, whether it somber or frivolous, is the 'important distinction' to ones Path? 

 

Let me see if I can give you a good answer!

 

Someone can be serious about their Path but still use magic in frivolous ways (like me). On the other hand, people can be very solemn and grave when they cast magic, but still not take their Path seriously at all.

 

The 'important distinction' I was trying to make is this: How somber someone is when they use magic does not reflect how serious they are in their Path.


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'Sir,' I said to the universe, 'I exist.'

'That,' said the universe, 'creates no sense of obligation in me whatsoever.'

 

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#66 Tana

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 02:38 AM

I agree with Wexler, magick can be mischievous and fun. One of the ways I entertain myself in a boring meeting is to magically give the most boring bloke a stiffy. 

That soon shuts them up, and it is hilarious to see them shuffling files onto their laps.

Sometimes we just have to do things for the joy of it!

Doesn't mean I take my path any less seriously.


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#67 Roanna

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 06:24 PM

Forever in your debt for this idea Tana. Brightened up the most boring course I have ever had the misfortune to live through no end. Ended up hiding it with his tie while I crossed my legs a la Sharon Stone (albeit it with woolly tights on...) Love it!


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#68 Raineylane

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 07:54 PM

Forever in your debt for this idea Tana. Brightened up the most boring course I have ever had the misfortune to live through no end. Ended up hiding it with his tie while I crossed my legs a la Sharon Stone (albeit it with woolly tights on...) Love it!

 

 

 

Lol.


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#69 Nikki

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 08:51 PM

One of the ways I entertain myself in a boring meeting is to magically give the most boring bloke a stiffy. 

That soon shuts them up, and it is hilarious to see them shuffling files onto their laps.

Sometimes we just have to do things for the joy of it!

 

 

Classic !!! I bet a thread on magical mischief would be very entertaining !!!  


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The difference between Medicine and Poison is the Dose. :oil-bottle:
I Love you as certain Dark Things are to be Loved,
In Secret, Between the Shadow and the Soul.
- Pablo Neruda


#70 SammCrow

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 09:59 PM

Oh my! We seem to have opened a whole new can of worms...er, maybe that's not the best metaphor.

 

Tana, you got a great mischievous sense of humour!  My idea of frivolous was making the pizza delivery man run late with my pizza so I could get the automatic discount.  Now I feel so unimaginative. :blondmoment:


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Prayer SevenNow in union with the Sun, your face O Moon is dark, a mask of shadows hidden in a sea of light, until the Sun, like some lover consumed by passion's flame, withdraws his light from the faltering day and drowns himself, in sacrificial zeal, as deep within your darkness as ever flame may steal.  And you, O Moon, by yielding freely to his might, have gained his freely-given throne, the Regal Queen of Night in your Diadem of Gold, to rule the sky alone.  It is only envy of such love that leads all men to lust.  Ave, Luna!  - 09 March 2001, by Bran th' Blessed (Samm Crow)


#71 Raineylane

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 10:42 PM

Tana, you are a treasure!


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#72 Wexler

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 11:35 PM

Oh my! We seem to have opened a whole new can of worms...er, maybe that's not the best metaphor.

 

Tana, you got a great mischievous sense of humour!  My idea of frivolous was making the pizza delivery man run late with my pizza so I could get the automatic discount.  Now I feel so unimaginative. :blondmoment:

I'm feeling left out, for all the stupid stuff I get up to I never really make mischief. Did someone say a magical mischief thread? We should do that.


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'Sir,' I said to the universe, 'I exist.'

'That,' said the universe, 'creates no sense of obligation in me whatsoever.'

 

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#73 Nikki

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 08:26 AM

I'm feeling left out, for all the stupid stuff I get up to I never really make mischief. Did someone say a magical mischief thread? We should do that.

 

Yeah, Wex, I said it... lol. Tana, will you do the honor? 


Edited by Nikki, 10 April 2014 - 02:04 PM.

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The difference between Medicine and Poison is the Dose. :oil-bottle:
I Love you as certain Dark Things are to be Loved,
In Secret, Between the Shadow and the Soul.
- Pablo Neruda


#74 thehoodedman

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Posted 27 April 2014 - 12:30 PM

Re-read this Startella, a couple of years back I think. I knew what you meant, and I agree...but didn't really understand how I fitted in? I was brought up by my Grandmother...who taught me many things but not witchcraft? But I was wrong her and her mother were traditionals, and big ones once I learned enough to spot the 'craft' recently: Midwives, first called to the dying, groups meeting regular, herbs potions on high shelves, lanterns and candles, secret books and 'visitors' on a regular basis. But in their time...it was different, a very secret world.
I know all the things you talk about but it didn't know the 'modern' names. Found out on my maternal side as well...yep, my mother... found out just last week after 20years in the dark. It is in your blood, I've always known what I could do and never knew why? And it's so natural I just do it. I may not know the 'terms' and 'names' but I have the natural ability. How many more out there like me? It's like a great darkness has lifted, I'm so proud now of who and what I am.

 

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#75 RoseRed

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 12:15 PM

That is awesome!


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#76 bewitchingredhead

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Posted 08 July 2014 - 07:13 PM

I agree with Wexler, magick can be mischievous and fun. One of the ways I entertain myself in a boring meeting is to magically give the most boring bloke a stiffy. 

That soon shuts them up, and it is hilarious to see them shuffling files onto their laps.

Sometimes we just have to do things for the joy of it!

Doesn't mean I take my path any less seriously.

 

 

Oh my fucking god this is great! Hilarious but brilliant!!   :roflhard:  :roflhard: 


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#77 Eidolon

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Posted 18 February 2015 - 07:42 PM

This post actually helps because it's all laid out so well. Thanks!
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#78 razorim

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Posted 19 September 2015 - 01:51 AM

I really like what you wrote here because it sums me up and how I view my path even though I didn't know it was called Traditional Witchcraft. Of course, there are some differences, but that happens when you are on your own personal journey.

I thought it interesting that you mentioned the elements in relation to Wicca. I see the elements as another form of energy that can aid in workings and something that hedge witches used in the bosco to aid/protect the witch and the ritual. Am I misunderstanding the usefulness of the elements? They are part of the bigger picture, the universe, in all creatures, etc... or am I wrong? Perhaps I should study more up on Wicca, but organised religions leave a bad taste in my mouth.

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#79 Nyd

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Posted 16 November 2015 - 12:38 PM

This really resonates with me! :)
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#80 Hekabel

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Posted 21 February 2016 - 02:20 AM

What a perfect summation of Trad Craft! I could never have put it so well myself, I'm glad to see it all laid out so skilfully!
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