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Be Careful What You Ask For : What It Can Be Like Working With Deities


Homeschoolie
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Most definitely, that's why it's important to be very specific in the petition or whatever you choose to use. 😂 

Also covering others nearby is a wise decision, every spell has a "side" effect on everything else that's within your perception to some degree or other. Stay secret, stay safe.

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  • 1 month later...

I don't believe one actually works with a full divine force - it would probably disintegrate you. I believe that one manages to connect to an ancestor, or even a random spirit, of someone who worked that force and built up much power, and they connect to the energetic force for you and control whatever does or doesn't come through.  One reason why in invoking a divine energy for a working the witch would also invoke the name of someone/thing that knows how to work with it and can filter it. If you think about it, that's actually what you're doing when you invoke an herb. It has connection to energy that is filtered through it into the specific property of that herb. You could try and invoke the property itself without the herb, but you'd be shooting in the dark.

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1 hour ago, Michele said:

If you think about it, that's actually what you're doing when you invoke an herb. It has connection to energy that is filtered through it into the specific property of that herb. You could try and invoke the property itself without the herb, but you'd be shooting in the dark.

Oh that's interesting. Personally I don't believe that's what's happening at all. For instance, I don't think that "inspiration" somehow exists somewhere and that vervain is just an interface for me to access this energy. I believe these things work by the laws of sympathy, not ontology: that things are defined by their relative closeness and distance, not by their own separate existence (with possible links between them). So, in my example, I believe that vervain, because it has such a pleasant, fresh smell, gently stimulates the mind and the imagination; that its purplish flowers resonate with Venus, meaning it is invested in harmony: works of beauty that bring people together. So it follows that vervain would help one compose works of art, music in particular (the plant's freshness evokes the air element, and of course: harmony), especially ones that are well-balanced and classically beautiful. So, in my view, vervain is inspiring; it's not a gateway to an energy we have come to understood as inspiration.

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I keep having clearer ideas of how to express my thoughts right after I post smh... Michele, it's probably not how you intended it, but do you see how in your theory the plant is a sort of passive portal to something other (implicitly greater)? I believe the plant has just as much of an agenda as the witch and that often, the craft is about negotiating and harmonizing these agendas to bring about an outcome desirable to both parties. In short, I believe in a world of material and metaphysical relations, not of (philosophical) Idealism.

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Plants have their own energy, in my personal belief, as do all things (including people). I believe one needs to (or should have) a relationship with what one invokes if they want a better understanding and outcome of the energy. The nature of the plant energy is what makes it different from another plant... the strength of that energy depends on to what and how  it is connected.  Those are just my personal beliefs. I don't believe that the look and smell of a plant are the only thing they have to offer. I believe their look and smell can give one a good idea of what energies they might resonate with, but they also have a specific energy in them that needs to be invoked and directed for any working. I believe words said over generations gain a power of their own because certain energies are used to being worked with those words for that specific outcome. I believe all energies have (or can have) a connection to "other" and can be used as a portal to, or connection to, that aspect of energy. I also believe certain manifestations of energy, especially deific, have certain plants/animals they prefer to work with and respond to, and the repetition of the use gathers more and more power over time. But that's just me. 

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1 hour ago, Michele said:

 I don't believe that the look and smell of a plant are the only thing they have to offer. I believe their look and smell can give one a good idea of what energies they might resonate with, but they also have a specific energy in them that needs to be invoked and directed for any working.

Here my beliefs align with yours. But I believe the energy of the plant (I would go farther and term it its personhood, or simply being - to me that it is an important distinction that breaks the Idealistic model and restores agency to whatever it is one is working with, which all too often is absent from the equation) is inextricable from its specific embodiment. Simply put, that the plant is not an expression of some purely immaterial principle but that the plant, like every thing, exists as a physical thing with a spirtual - or energetic, I suppose - dimension.

I also agree that these associations build up and strengthen over time. This is why it's so comparatively easy to work with vervain, to take this example again: my specific plant and I are building on covenants dating back millenia; the plant is used to all sorts of magicians and vice versa.

I may have misread your first post and this may appear as nitpicking over semantics but to me they're defining elements of a craft, and that's why I'm so interested in comparing my understanding with that of other practitioners.

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I think the understanding of practitioners will differ depending on what they're involved with. I also think there can be more than one answer to most questions. I happen to be religious and very spiritual, and am initiated into a religion (that is craft friendly) and the plant associations and powers that I use will be effected by how my personal ancestors used those plants (and also how the ancestors of the religion understood those plants  which may differ from my personal ancestors' understanding). Many workings could invoke not just the plant, but an ancestor who specialized in plant knowledge and would have much stronger power and relationships with the plants than I do (depending on the plant and the situation). So how I use and work with and relate to plants, and my belief system of them, might be very different from someone else's who is  not in my religion and/or does not share my ancestors. And to contradict that, some plants unknown in my religion I would then use them in more craft-like associations. It's not black or white. It's much more BOTH black and white. So it will be different for each person depending on what they're into. The plant uses are usually very similar between most paths and beliefs, but the how and the way and the beliefs of the origin of the energy can appear quite different (although ultimately if it is stripped to its bare bones it usually has a thread of the same truth running through it, just personalized and named differently by different cultures and belief systems).

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  • 3 weeks later...

And a great discussion it is no matter how it got here.....Loved reading it!  😁

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