Ancestry

[Wezip]

I recently looked in to my DNA ancestry and that got me to researching witches from the regions that came up...

 

Do any of you know of famous witches or traditional Irish / Russian / Scandinavian witchcraft practices? So far, Baba Yaga has been the most common search result...

 

I found out that I am mostly Ulster Irish (like 98%!!) I was kind of disappointed to be honest, I think I wanted a more interesting mix..., but also partly northwest Russian, and partly Scandinavian...

 

More interestingly, have any of you looked in to your ancestry? Have you discovered anything cool?

[Phagos]

Do any of you know of famous witches or traditional Irish / Russian / Scandinavian witchcraft practices? So far, Baba Yaga has been the most common search result...

 

 

There's quite a few threads on here about practices of different countries. I think you may find more info on Irish witchcraft if you look for Celtic. There's also one on Scandinavian witchcraft if my memory serves me. 

 

I bought DNA kits for my parents, didn't come up with any surprises though. This one split Welsh, Scottish, Irish as Celtic and a separate one for British. Which I don't quite get but whatever. The majority of British people are no more than 30% and my father is 60%.

[Onyx]

I am mostly from Scandinavia 42% and the rest a mix of all the European countries and only 18% British. Those darn Vikings are responsible for everything.

[UnMasked1467]

I've thought of getting a DNA kit, but I know my ancestry pretty well already-- I'm Russian and Irish on my mom's side, and on my dad's I'm German, Pennsylvania Dutch, English, and French. Although I'd be interested in looking up witchcraft traditions from those regions, I'm more interested in my specific background, i.e., my ancestors. I can't explain it, but my father's paternal side draws my interest specifically. My Irish grandma (on my mother's side) and I played around with the tarot, runes and astrology when I was a kid, so there is something witchy there for sure. But there is also something about my grandfather on my dad's side that is curious to me. A lot of secrets died with him, it seems. 

[skelef0x]

I've thought of getting myself an ancestry DNA test as well, since I don't know much about my family history. I feel like it would be a good place to start.

 

I've always wondered if people have an instinctual connection to their heritage cultures--I've always been inexplicably drawn to the Scottish portion of my heritage more than the other possibilities for seemingly no reason at all. Maybe there's a correlation.

[Phagos]

I would take those DNA tests with a pinch of salt. You would need to get quite a few done, from different sources and compare the results. After all, there is no real way you can check yourself if the results are true unless you know someone who works in a lab where they do that sort of thing.

Plus how far do you go back? If what they say is true and the whole human race can be traced back to a woman in Africa 200,000 years ago, are we all African? If we are all African then should we all be looking into the ancient traditional African belief systems?  

[GraceWhite]

I don't really see why not, although in my opinion it makes more sense to study more recent beliefs that are more relevant given their proximity in time. Magic seems to work the same way regardless of origin imo, it's just a matter of what plants, minerals and animals were around at the time, and changes in style - which are different from practitioner to practitioner let alone region to region

[Phagos]

Sorry that last part was meant to come across as sarcastic  ;) 

 

Looking into any belief, practice or tradition IS fine. But picking and choosing them based on loose DNA results I think is unwise. You can't take on all of the different ethnic origins, so which ones do you pick?

If you work with your ancestors, and a lot of witches do, what happens to them? "Sorry folks, I've got a bit bored of you and our ways. I want to hear from some other guys" lol I don't think they would be too happy.

If you know for certain that there is linage in your blood then great but more homework needs to be done besides these commercial tests. 

[skelef0x]

Sorry that last part was meant to come across as sarcastic  ;)

 

Looking into any belief, practice or tradition IS fine. But picking and choosing them based on loose DNA results I think is unwise. You can't take on all of the different ethnic origins, so which ones do you pick?

If you work with your ancestors, and a lot of witches do, what happens to them? "Sorry folks, I've got a bit bored of you and our ways. I want to hear from some other guys" lol I don't think they would be too happy.

If you know for certain that there is linage in your blood then great but more homework needs to be done besides these commercial tests. 

 

I agree with you!  DNA tests are notoriously inaccurate, so you'd probably have to do multiple ones and average the results for the most accurate output.  My main desire for it comes from the fact I don't know much about my ancestry--I've got a couple of countries and a family name, but that's about it.  My living family tends to be tight-lipped about our history before 1800.  It would be nice to know where to start, is all.

[GraceWhite]

Oh yeah I agree with you on that, I was mostly just saying that while yes technically we're all from Africa its a bit divorced from where and who we are now :P I don't like those bloody tests either, I've heard 23&me is owed by or has some relationship to Google - as if they didn't already know enough about us all

Edited February 23, 2019 by GraceWhite

[Onyx]

As a person who was adopted at birth with no idea of whom or where I came from I found the DNA test very interesting, with quite surprising results.

I really don't have any reason not to believe in the results.

[Phagos]

As a person who was adopted at birth with no idea of whom or where I came from I found the DNA test very interesting, with quite surprising results.

I really don't have any reason not to believe in the results.

 

Was it a commercial test you used Onyx? Like Ancestry or 23andMe? Unfortunately these companies and the methods they use aren't regulated and do not share their data with one another. Therefore their accuracy is questionable. As mentioned I bought a test for my parents as they have been researching their family trees. But I considered it more a novelty than anything else. As said, you would need to have a number of these tests done and compare the results. Also vary the information you provide the company when sending your sample. For example if you are European/Caucasian say you're Indian on the form. There has been reported cases where people have done this and the results have indicated their made up ethnicity, which are clearly incorrect. 

[Onyx]

I used the National Geographic test, you would think a reputable company. I did talk to a cousin who also had a lot of Scandinavian as well, however I'm not related by blood to him either so I can't really compare. I'm thinking to get another perspective would be to test one of my Sons.

[AllSaintsDay]

Ancestry has always been such an interesting topic to me as a mixed race AND adopted person. My bio-dad is Belizean creole and bio-mom is white, while my adoptive mom is half-white/half-Puebloan and my adoptive dad being Mexican. I wasn't raised in creole culture, and the closest to 'white culture' I got was my (adoptive) mom's dad. My grandpa was born and raised in Amish country in like the 1930's-40's. He had some very interesting ideas about witchcraft, namely that the practice pisses off God and results in severe physical disfigurement. Haha

I was mostly raised in a Mexican Catholic worldview, but, well, my parents aren't very good Catholics. We didn't even go to Mass, we'd just go to Church, pray to God in the pews, then 'parade around' to the various saint shrines where I was told to touch the hands, feet or face of the statues, pray, light candles etc.  As an adult, I look back fondly at those experiences in Church and I have to admit, it really made the idea of polytheism palatable to me. As an adult, I just live out the cultures that I was raised in and they do influence the way I do my spirituality. My Christian practice leans heavily on the cult of saints. Like, I have a sanctuario full of saints, where I basically mimic the practices I learned as a child. 

But in regards to DNA tests, I've never gotten one and probably never will. I've not found a reason to really explore my blood ancestral paths, as I've been pretty satisfied with what I've inherited and the additional diabolical practices I developed on my own. 

[Guest NatureMama]

My ancestry is English, Welsh, Scottish and Irish, with a bit of German.  I'm very drawn to Celtic witchcraft and Folk Magic, particularly the practices of Pennsylvania, and the Appalachian mountains which fits both my family genetic and regional heritage and history. But I don't limit myself, if I'm interested in something I follow that interest. :)

[SnowLeFae]

My Mom was adopted, and was part of the spearhead from the group (ALMA Society) that got laws changed to allow sealed adoption records to be opened for medical reasons. As a result, she got to meet her birth parents, and their lineage is actually simple. Her Mom is full Cherokee, born and raised in/around Cherokee, NC, and the Qualla Boundary. Her Dad is Welsh, with some Swiss.

 

My Dad's Mom was Irish, from a tiny village called Cavan (NOT the one in County Cavan). His father was Welsh, with a little Scotch-Irish in there. His line is the only bit of unsurety. 

 

I am not close to my family, so I do not have any great cultural or familial "imprinting" from them. My father's Mother would call me "ridiculous" for my, mmm, attunement with nature, and anything beyond that (Craft) was, well, usually it prompted unkind words, lol. My Mother's Mom liked me, but not he rest of the family, so I unfortunately did not get to spend enough time with her.

 

Snow *

[Onyx]

Opening adoption records for medical records would be great, when I am asked for family history, I have to say " I don't know", I wish I did.  

[Lyra]

I did a dna test recently. I was a bit suprised. I inherited less german than I thought. I inherited a lot if english dna, and through research found most my english line is from cornwall, so i have been researching cornish traditions

Edited August 25, 2019 by Lyra

[Kupala]

I've never done an official dna test, I already know what I am. I am 99% sure I got most of the micro-ethnic Trans-Carpathian genes, maybe a bit of the Swedish, English and Irish. I look very, very Slavic according to strangers, lol. Magically speaking, when I was into that dirty word, Wxxa, I got most results working with Eastern European and Northern European deities. As for famous witches of Eastern-Europe, sometimes folklore witches are all you're going to get. Sorry!

 

 

Edited to add: I don't have a particular ancestral based practice on specific dna. I'm American and I mostly draw from English witchcraft (those ancestors were from the Marches) and animism really. Also I'm lazy.

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Edited August 26, 2019 by westofthemoon

[Sagefire]

I have never done a DNA test as I have heard that they can be misleading.  I have a family member who is part of a genealogical society and she has found the best way to track heritage is through the old fashioned paper trail.  It amazes me how she can find some of the information she does.  Thus far she has traced her family roots back nearly 400 years.  She has nothing good to say about sites like Ancestry .com as the research used to build the databases is sketchy at best and they can be wildly inaccurate.

[Phagos]

Bump

[woodwitchofthewest]

I have a niece who is autistic and was born with other genetic anomalies.  My sister had her DNA and her daughter's DNA tested to see what sort of health issues they might need to keep a look out for, and asked that I and another family member do the same.  So we did.  The ancestry stuff was just kind of an interesting sideline from the other testing, but I was able at last to put to rest a family myth that we had a significant amount of Cherokee on my mom's side.  I could never find any evidence in the genealogy, but some family members insisted it was so!  (Hint:  DNA results basically say "not one drop." I was actually a bit disappointed, but that's the way it goes.)

 

So, if the tests are to be believed, I'm 99.9% European - 38% Irish, 32% French and German, a little Scandinavian, the rest a mix of other European ethnicities.  Basically, looking at the map, it seems that the Celts roamed and left some offspring in lots of places who later became woven into my family tree.  

[citoyenne]

Those DNA kits only give a partial picture, the patrilineal tests are only available to people who have Y chromosomes, and tell only of father's fathers and etc, nothing of your mother's fathers, or any other men or women related to you via a female. Likewise a matrilineal test is available to all, since everyone has X chromosomes, but is still your mother's mothers and etc, no women or men related to you via a male. If you are XY you could test both sides, but are still missing the vast majority of the picture, if you are XX then you could try to test both but would probably have to make a few attempts as you can't pick which of your XX pair they will test; again missing the vast majority. The last remaining type of test matches you to people with similar snippets of DNA but shows more who you are related to than the type of ancestry that I think you are looking for, the land of your origin (what is now Ethiopia lol, it's the easiest but I jest)

 

You probably are more interesting than the tests "revealed".

I agree with Sagefire that the most sure way would be the hard old genealogical route via paper and research and effort. You will miss out less of your people, you will have access to more of their stories. There is so much that can be pieced together from birth, marriage, census and death records as well as other records you may be able to find. Honestly if you are interested, Mormons are like crazy into this shit and there are free online resources as well if there is a temple in your town you may be able recruit help... Just lol yeah... Mormons.

I have my family tree filled out fairly well back into the late 1600s early 1700s on both sides. I have found my ancestor's stories, mostly everything is a grind, there are moments of happiness, some badasses, there is suffering, some things are shameful, there are positives but they never stay good for long, there are few happy endings. LOL I come from dirt though, if your kin were more well to do though who knows. If you really want to look back, set aside romantic notions and be willing accept the joys and pains of their lives, if you can piece together the details.

 

I can't say that it has changed my practice though, if anything it all just reinforced it, basically the same things we ever did.

[Onyx]

It is a problem when you can only access part of your ancestry when you are a woman, but frankly in the end, it is not really going to make much difference.  I am who I made myself.  However, I see myself in my Granddaughter  and I think to myself , "This is going to be interesting!"

[BlackbirdSong]

Onyx, did you access your adoption files? Obviously you don’t have to answer, just wondered based on an earlier reply. Sorry if it sounds nosy, only that many people seem to think it’s much simpler than it is. First time I was told mine were lost, second time they took so long I moved house before any answer and I had to stop. I’ve just started the process again, but likely to take years. I turned to my ancestors through magic, reached out and information started coming in - they have been the source of me finding out things or the door openers. I had a dream about my birth mothers twitter account (she doesn’t feel able to contact at all, understandably) and the following day discovered it, another time I asked my ancestors if I had ancestry other than Irish and the following day my birth mum posted about having Irish and Scottish ancestry. I had a dream about Selkies, which have always been an important myth to me, and discovered a name very connected with the myth appears several times in my family tree. I agree in many ways we are who we make ourselves. I also think there are reflections of us in many things, as in nature different things are reflected, the shape of a brain in a leafless tree, the clouds and sand both wind blown, the spiral of a fern and a shell. We are not always related for those reflections to exist, sometimes not even the same species.

 

I haven’t done a DNA test, though I might at some point. I think they’re a useful asset for those who can’t ask questions or access names easily. I have also heard that it’s quite complex and best to take with a pinch of salt, but it’s interesting. I find the paper route more interesting, but only because my interest lies in healing the family tree and a lot of that comes from being able to research personal stories and speaking to my spirit ancestors. I do think explaining where we are from can be an important personal journey for some and it’s very interesting if results pop out that are unexpected, but I always think of the ancestors right back in Ethiopia and farther back to the fact we evolved from sea creatures (hence counting the sea as our farthest ancestor). I also think it can be helpful to brand new witches in order to focus them in on certain traditions - if that’s what they want - rather than a sporadic taking of each and every method that they read about. Obviously, you don’t need to witch within your recent heritage at all, but for some it can help bring focus.

 

Wezip, one Irish practice is to hang cloth out of a window on Imbolc. Brigit blesses the cloth and it is used to help with healing and birth. We also use hag stones for birthing. Many of our Irish practices are simple and based in folklore, like working with house spirits or brownies and leaving them cream from the milk, but I’ll have a think. If you look into the fairy doctors, you may find interesting things there.

Edited February 27, 2020 by BlackbirdSong