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Ascend vs descend \ High vs low. As above, so below?


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#1 Solanaceae

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Posted 05 October 2017 - 05:17 PM

This has been coming up a bit lately, so I thought a bit of conversation regarding terms might be useful or interesting to some. 

 

What does it mean to you?

 

 

 

Above                                                                                                                  Below

Ascend                                                                                                                Descend 

Higher                                                                                                                  Lower

----------                                                                                                                -----------

self                                              Higher What?                                                   self            

plane(s)                                                                                                                plane(s)          

being(s)                                                                                                                being(s) 

vibration                                                                                                                vibration

frequency                                                                                                             frequency  

entities                                                                                                                  entities

Magic(k)                                                                                                                Magic(k) 

Spirit(s)                                                                                                                  Spirit(s)

                                               Some Common Associations 

 

Light                                                                                                                      Dark

Positive                                                                                                                 Negative

Angelic                                                                                                                  Infernal

Life (Source)                                                                                                         Death (underworld)

Ascended masters                                                                                                Lost souls

Good                                                                                                                     Evil

 

 

                                                          

 

 

 

Thoughts?


Edited by Solanaceae, 05 October 2017 - 05:26 PM.

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Some are born to sweet delight,

Some are born to endless night.

 

(Fragments from "Auguries of Innocence") William Blake


#2 Zombee

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Posted 05 October 2017 - 06:22 PM

Higher can also suggest greater, or more focussed awareness, and increase from what is standard op procedure. So higher self is more conscious awareness than SOP. And lower would be less than SOP.

Lower can mean deeper, completely in tune with a location; Recessed below the surface, able to observe the cause & effect chain reactions.

Light can mean observable forces and dark refer to unseen and unobservable forces, neither plus or minus.

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#3 CailinRua

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Posted 05 October 2017 - 09:16 PM

For me, its not really about light/dark or positive/negative. It has to do with microcosm and macrocosm. Both micro and macro have the same aspects, archetypes, and patterns, be it light/dark  good/bad or whatever. Its a matter of scale, is my understanding, and seeing how the patterns and aspects are connected within those scales. You can spot them out and apply it to wider understandings, or narrower, more specific things. from the cosmic down into your deepest, inner world, and visa versa.

 

As far as the terms go, I read "higher" and the like to the macro, the bigger picture and long long long time scales. Things that play out over time and have a wider scope of influence. "lower" is more like micro, things that exist and happen in our timeframe, in more specific (smaller) manifestations of the macro. When speaking about a specific issue or event, those same terms can just be labels for the aspects at play, depending on their effect, subjectively. Or when speaking about the self (or another self), the 'shadow' aspects are just unfinished. They arent dark/negative/below anything else. I think there is just stigma or fragility around it, things we arent fully aware of or maybe dont want to be. I guess you could describe them as hidden, and in a way that is 'below' your consciousness or awareness, or shrouded in darkness, in that sense. But again, those things to me reflect the deeper 'micro'cosm. You go digging and discover how it is connected, you find your 'macro' in relation to it, or heal, or grow it, or whatever it is you need to do. Im trying to explain myself broadly, so hopefully this makes some kind of sense.

Let me know if I have misunderstood the question, I have been in and out of the forum this year and have probably missed the threads that inspired the topic.


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#4 Solanaceae

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Posted 05 October 2017 - 11:25 PM

Thank you Zombee and CR for your feedback. You both make some good points.

 

Here are some of my thoughts. 

when I hear people say things like 'lower beings' or 'higher planes' and the like it sets my teeth on edge.

It just sounds arrogant and elitist to me.

 

One thing you hear often from the new age types is that being in nature can 'raise your vibration level', supposedly because the vibration of nature is love. 

I don't know what nature on what planet they are observing, but it certainly is not this one.

Light and dark, creation and destruction, life and death occur in nature. It is not all love.

To deny the shadow and live exclusively in the light is to deny NATURE.

 

Another thing one hears often is that those who have a 'higher vibration level' are perfectly happy and content. 

You know what, good for them, if they are deluding themselves it is no harm to me.

 

However to me CONTENTMENT is a form stagnation.

It is my discontent with the way things are that keeps me moving forward, seeking onward.

 

A state of perfect HAPPINESS is not achievable in this present existence IMO to anyone who is even somewhat aware of their surroundings, nature, the universe and the way it works, society, ect. 

 

Not to say that one can not hope to escape the horror of this earthly realm while still in flesh.

For true seekers there are still the options of detachment and transcendence. 


Edited by Solanaceae, 05 October 2017 - 11:26 PM.

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Some are born to sweet delight,

Some are born to endless night.

 

(Fragments from "Auguries of Innocence") William Blake


#5 CailinRua

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Posted 06 October 2017 - 12:14 AM

Great points about nature, and peoples ideas of it. I love nature as much as any new age hippie, but I am not deluded. It can be gruesome, it can be grueling, and it can definitely be dangerous. The whole of it is beautiful to me, bloody life eat life, decay, and rebirth, all of it. To parse it out and cherry pick what you find "high vibe" or pleasing about it, is just fancy denial of your own nature and of nature itself, and it IS stagnation to stop there, to choose to block out all the "other". I never thought of contentment as a state (cant say I've really experienced contentment for more than a moment or two at a time). Same for happiness. It is fleeting, and its NOT a destination. Its just feedback like anything else. People treat it that way all the time, and its tiresome. You dont just arrive, at any state, and stay there. everything is in flux, and thats the beauty of it. i like your point about discontentment being a motivator. I have had the same thoughts about pain and suffering (all different kinds). Its a message, it serves an evolutionary purpose. Its not something to rid yourself of, but to listen to. The most intense growth and change I have experienced in life have been after periods of upheaval and chaos. Its like a germination stage. Not unlike cold-water stratification of seeds, or germination by fire, which many species of trees and flowers need to even begin anew. My favorite ecologies are fire ecologies, I relate on deep level to my region for that reason in particular, but also many others. Its made me a bit weird, to be honest. I can be experiencing the worst of something, and this niggling little part of me is thrilled with it. Because I know what comes after, as bitter or hard as it can or will be.


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#6 CailinRua

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Posted 06 October 2017 - 12:37 AM

About your point about nature "raising" vibrations and nature = love. I think thats the understanding that surface skimmers take as grounding/balance. If feels good to connect, in general. But its the other part of that, the edited way of looking at it, that is problematic if you really want to dig deep and *connect* in a meaningful or productive way. Its so common for people to take the easy understanding, those feel good moments as the RIGHT moments. and just seek them one after the other. And they will go in circles forever if they dont figure out why its a goose chase. that instant gratification mindset that is pervasive in most modern societies. Its ironic, because its actually quite destructive and solipsistic. Its superficial..the opposite of the outward claim of what its about for them. And yes, im speaking in broad strokes and putting a lot of people under an umbrella, but its something I see a lot of on social media and in acquaintances.  I dont get to vent about it IRL all that much. I dont think there is anything wrong with wanting to feel good or trying to see the silver lining, but if you dont know yourself or assume you do and always will, because you think your personality is static and solid (ie: identifying with a concept of yourself, an outward persona of who you want to be), then it just calcifies into blinders you wear. Its armor against the lessons of life, and the biggest obstacle you can create.


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#7 Duchess

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Posted 06 October 2017 - 01:09 AM

 

 

One thing you hear often from the new age types is that being in nature can 'raise your vibration level', supposedly because the vibration of nature is love. 

I don't know what nature on what planet they are observing, but it certainly is not this one.

 

 

 

 

When I was ten I had the fun of helping to flense a gray whale that had beached itself on a secluded section and was found a week later (the local marine science center wanted the skeleton, and I had a weird sense of fun even as a child); the stench of week old, rotted, maggot ridden gray whale still haunts me to this day. When I hear people talk like this, I truly wish I could have bottled that scent to share with them.


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#8 CailinRua

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Posted 06 October 2017 - 01:50 AM

That is a fun thought, Duchess, hahaha. My brother and I as kids would find rotted things to poke at, or crack "bad" eggs to find chicks inside, in various stages of completeness (but sometimes, just total rot, and holy yuck) and were fascinated with the process of gutting fish, or preparing an elk carcass. We made "potions" in the decorative well in the front of one of the houses we lived. i went on to continue being a weirdy in those similar ways, and he went on to be a weirdy in a different way. I remember carrying dead road kills home to give burials to. My dad hated it, but obliged me, so long as i basically boiled myself after the deed was done. I think, if I had been born a little later, I would have been put in counseling early on.


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