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Witches in Folktales

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#21 Autumn Moon

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Posted 25 November 2016 - 12:05 AM

Wait, are there other reasons to travel? I've been doing it wrong.... ;)

...................

 

Ha, ha...naughty is good!


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#22 Autumn Moon

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Posted 25 November 2016 - 12:07 AM

Perhaps in the Grimm, HC Anderson etc...era fairy tales- the fairy plays the part of the normal witch :cool_witch: - the one who can work for good... or not, depending on her whim and the ugly, greedy witch simply plays the villain. 

...........

 

Makes sense.


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#23 IslandBruja

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Posted 25 November 2016 - 05:22 PM

Perhaps in the Grimm, HC Anderson etc...era fairy tales- the fairy plays the part of the normal witch :cool_witch: - the one who can work for good... or not, depending on her whim and the ugly, greedy witch simply plays the villain.


Except humans can be witches, but humans can't be faeries so it's still a judgment/indictment of people (and yes, specifically women) practicing magic...

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#24 Autumn Moon

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Posted 25 November 2016 - 09:59 PM

Isn't the Fairy a female...I thought most depictions of Fairy's are female, and in legend humans can become fairy's. Did you read the link I provided?


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#25 IslandBruja

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Posted 26 November 2016 - 02:51 AM

Isn't the Fairy a female...I thought most depictions of Fairy's are female, and in legend humans can become fairy's. Did you read the link I provided?


I'm not sure what Fairy you're referring to... my reply was to Belwenda's comment but faeries can be male or female and I know of no humans "becoming" faeries - they might go live/be trapped in the faery realm but I'm not familiar with any becoming a fairy.

The point I was making though is that while faeries CAN use their magic for good in stories (as Belwenda was pointing out) they most definitely use it for ill and evil as well, depending on their mood or whim (it's a classic faerie trait: capriciousness), whereas witches are usually portrayed as only using it for ill. And they are typically the only (intentional) human magic users in stories - besides wizards or sorcerers who are male and allowed much more leeway when it comes to morality, ethics and final "judgment" than their female counterparts...

As for the link, I didn't notice you added it till you just pointed it out. Very interesting. What I found most intriguing was this: "Yamauba are difficult to define with a Western word because no word we regularly use fits them exactly. When this happens translators often use words like witch as a catch all for any magical female figure which might be dangerous."

So we are lumped in linguistically with non-human creatures that eat children and are further demonized and "othered" by this false association. It's an interesting thought path to travel down...

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#26 Oroboros

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Posted 26 November 2016 - 06:17 AM

@ RG- check this out.  I believe this is the original version.  It includes some details Im pretty sure were not in the fairy tale book.  Not sure why I love this story so much.  The princess here and the princess in "The Last Unicorn" (know that one?) were like my childhood "Disney Princesses" :).  I think my book is still unpacked, but when I find it Ill pm you the specs, because I am very curious if its the exact book you have- I have never seen it anywhere before, except mine which is almost as old as me:).

 

http://www.surlalune...2/whitecat.html

 

okay, now back to A.M.'s butt.. No wait, thats not the topic.  Witches in fairy tales and culture...

 

@ I.B. one of my posts mentioned a fairy who acted as a witch, thats where fairies entered the thread I think.


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...From ev’ry depth of good and ill , The mystery which binds me still...— Poe

#27 Autumn Moon

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Posted 26 November 2016 - 03:05 PM

I'm not sure what Fairy you're referring to... my reply was to Belwenda's comment but faeries can be male or female and I know of no humans "becoming" faeries - they might go live/be trapped in the faery realm but I'm not familiar with any becoming a fairy.

The point I was making though is that while faeries CAN use their magic for good in stories (as Belwenda was pointing out) they most definitely use it for ill and evil as well, depending on their mood or whim (it's a classic faerie trait: capriciousness), whereas witches are usually portrayed as only using it for ill. And they are typically the only (intentional) human magic users in stories - besides wizards or sorcerers who are male and allowed much more leeway when it comes to morality, ethics and final "judgment" than their female counterparts...

As for the link, I didn't notice you added it till you just pointed it out. Very interesting. What I found most intriguing was this: "Yamauba are difficult to define with a Western word because no word we regularly use fits them exactly. When this happens translators often use words like witch as a catch all for any magical female figure which might be dangerous."

So we are lumped in linguistically with non-human creatures that eat children and are further demonized and "othered" by this false association. It's an interesting thought path to travel down...

........

Yes, the fae are very human in the aspect that they can do good or evil...but then so are witches cast like this as well, although it seems more often than not, they are cast as doing evil, but I think this has much to do with Christianity's portrayal of witches. Regarding your other point, about male gender witches, sorceres, et al being allowed more leeway than their female counterparts, I really have not found this to be the case overall. 

 

My post was right after yours, so I did not feel the need to quote you, but in any case, I was referencing your post. In the research I did I came across some legends of humans becoming fae...such as this one -  'In Greece, a fairy queen asked one girl: "Would you not like to be a fairy?...and live with me in this garden where the sun never ceases to shine and where it is summer all the year?” (Gianakoulis, 1930).  Then, despite the girl’s apparent refusals, the fairies took her soul anyways to become one of them leaving behind her body.  

 

Getting back to your thread  topic about witches being portrayed as ugly and evil and female is true in some legends but others portray her in an opposite light, such as the Witch of Endor, and others. However, I agree that post depictions of Witches are as being evil.


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#28 Autumn Moon

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Posted 26 November 2016 - 03:26 PM

@ RG- check this out.  I believe this is the original version.  It includes some details Im pretty sure were not in the fairy tale book.  Not sure why I love this story so much.  The princess here and the princess in "The Last Unicorn" (know that one?) were like my childhood "Disney Princesses" :).  I think my book is still unpacked, but when I find it Ill pm you the specs, because I am very curious if its the exact book you have- I have never seen it anywhere before, except mine which is almost as old as me:).

 

http://www.surlalune...2/whitecat.html

 

okay, now back to A.M.'s butt.. No wait, thats not the topic.  Witches in fairy tales and culture...

 

@ I.B. one of my posts mentioned a fairy who acted as a witch, thats where fairies entered the thread I think.

........

Ha ha...I' never going to live that one down, am I.


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#29 Oroboros

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Posted 26 November 2016 - 03:37 PM

It's just a great story A.M., that's all.  So, basically NO, you will never live it down.:)


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...From ev’ry depth of good and ill , The mystery which binds me still...— Poe

#30 Autumn Moon

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Posted 26 November 2016 - 04:40 PM

Yep. I didn't think i would Oroboros  :P


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