Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Kalinia

Deities Need Us To Exist

Recommended Posts

It's surprising what shows up on the paperbackswap.com site, too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In my spiritual journey, I've come to the following conclusion: Gods and Goddesses exist, and worked together to make the world. Then, they made high-power spirits to dwell within it to shape it and help it grow and live. Then, they made people. The people came to be aware of the spirits, and through the spirits, the Gods, and then the Gods all got into a giant pissing contest to see who would have the most followers and the most devout following when the end of time comes. I have also come to the realization that Gods are fickle, and that being one God's beloved child/worshiper makes you an enemy of at least five others. So if you want to worship, feel out what you think likes you best and stick with that. For general spellcasting though, spirits are five billion percent more reliable and willing to help anyone. Of course, there can be misunderstandings, like Anara said. People don't always know what God does what specific thing, so gods can get lumped together or have their duties split up. Also, there are plenty of spirit and other beings that are perfectly happy to be mistaken for gods and even encourage it - not everything is pure and scrupulous. But my point is that living, mortal things were the last forms of consciousness to come into being, and we will likely be the first to go.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think the energy that is a divinity needs humans to exist - I think the energy/ies have always existed and will always exist. If humans drop them, the communication and ways of contact will be forgotten, and the relationship will fade away, but the force will still exist. I think personifications (which are recognized as "individual divinities") may cease to exist, but the force that enlivens the personification will live forever.... it will just be recognized by a different personification by the next culture who has different realities to which they associate. Look how many grain gods, hunting gods, fertility gods, have morphed and/or overlapped throughout time. The force of those divinities was merely morphed into a different personification. If a culture deifies a specific human (say a king of old who took on a god-like status to the people) that may be different because it was a specific human, not a disembodied energy/force.

 

M

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My personal belief (and I'm writing this before reading everyone else's answers, so If I'm repeating someone, it's unintentional):

 

I know this forum is a place where witchcraft is discussed separate of religious belief, but in order to understand where I"m coming from, I am a Hindu - specifically a Vaishnava (or Hare Krishna, as we're known) who is also a witch. My personal belief is that there are many gods, and one Supreme God, and we are all sparks of his energy. But we are all eternally individual souls, the demigods and us mere mortals alike. So, while we are connected to each other eternally, we never "become one with the light" permanently as some believe, because that isn't our ultimate expression of self. We are all divine energy, but that doesn't make us all God. 

 

That being said, relationships with the divine are based on free will. We're in this material world of our own free will, and it takes our free will desire to want to connect and have a relationship with another soul - whether it's Krishna or The Morrigan. It's a relationship, and relationships require both participants. So, yes, deities "need" us as much as we need them in order to have a relationship. They do not need us or our permission to exist any more than we need someone else's permission to exist. We just exist. Eternally. And we have eternal relationships of different kinds with different deities and expansions of the Supreme. Which is why I don't believe there is one single path for all people.

 

Again, this is what I believe, and I hope I have not caused any offense to anyone. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hmmm, I as someone coming from a long line of hekate followers do not agree with the perception of her. She has been deified by religions and this carries on mentally after you read about her. If you study ancient history she was a deity that was worshipped by most greeks. They all had hekations on their front yards and none were scared of her unless you brought on her wrath by doing something inherently evil. She was closely related to artemis, persephone etc. A guardian of the home, the homeless, women etc. Googling and what christianity has done to some of these deities is indeed sad. The Gnostics joined the Church in demonising Hekate, calling her one of the five demonic archons (rulers) who tormented souls, in her case by burning them...she takes what you give her and that is all. Either she helps you or she doesn't. She doesn't come after you if you don't give her a nice enough offering. Everyone experiences things differently but that is not correct. Maybe you invoked something else.

That being said, i don't think this is like an arthurian story that hints at worship of deities in order for their magic and existence to continue.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am guessing that your comment is in response to mine.

Just for next time,  if you quote the person you are responding to,  it could decrease the likelihood of confusion.  There is a button for that in the lower right corner. 

 

 

All deity needs to approached with care as does any other entity,  however the great power of those most powerful entities needs to be kept in mind for those who want to walk that road.

Of course you are entitled to your opinion.  I do not wish to argue this point as I am not one of hers, but there are people,( some of whom are on here ) who's opinions I respect would disagree with you on some of your points as well.  

She has more then one face. For certain, she does not treat those who are not called and claimed by her the same as those who are.

As you say you come from a long line Hekate worshipers you most likely are.

 

It is not about how 'nice' the offering is, but she does have preferences. Since you where raised in a family that taught you correctly,  you may never have had to find that out the hard way.  

I did not say she would come after those who failed to give her proper offering either, I said she would take what she needed.

 

You do not know me of course so I can not blame you for suggesting I may have called up something else. ( For the record, I certainly never said anything about invoking. )

I may have suggested the same sort of thing to someone if I didn't think they knew better.  Lets just say I've been down that road a few times,  and I am confident I would know if it was another entity messing with me. 

Edited by Solanaceae

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In Hermeticism it is stressed that the Gods were ounce mortal humans and that humans can become Gods, so in a sense I view the Gods as a sort of early rock stars that did something great and people just kept adding to the myths and build up over the years until they were Gods. We can see this with the case of Jesus, he went from a little known Jewish Rabbi to a Deity. A good book to read is How Jesus became God by Bart D. Ehrman. 

 

I do believe in a Creator Deity that is all contradictions rolled up into one harmonious state. This what hermeticism means when it states that this Being is bisexual, it means that it is male and female, order and chaos, every possibility, all that was and all that will never be, in perfect balance. But it's not a God in the sense that one would think because it doesn't answer prayers or contact us. It's beyond all that and It may not even know that we exist. I suppose Tao would be a close example of what Hermeticists are talking about. This is probably why I have a Panendeist view of the Creator-Force, what have you. The Unknown God as the ancient Greeks would say.

 

So I really don't know if they need us now that the humans have ascended to Godhood. I'll have to ask. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm sorry, I cannot have anything to do with any kind of organized religion especially Christianity. I feel that they are the root of all evil.

More people have been killed in the name of God than by any other thing. Every soldier going to war says "God is on our side" I call Bullshit!

Never been "claimed" by a Goddess either. I believe in the power of me!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm sorry, I cannot have anything to do with any kind of organized religion especially Christianity. I feel that they are the root of all evil.

More people have been killed in the name of God than by any other thing. Every soldier going to war says "God is on our side" I call Bullshit!

Never been "claimed" by a Goddess either. I believe in the power of me!

 

Nicely said

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I find most religions do not reflect the divinity as much as they reflect human's ideas of what a divinity would be like. 

 

M

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From a left hand perspective, we are all deities.  We stand alone for eternity none above and none at side...Some have been here longer and have more influence.  To suggest that gods exist because of mankind means that these entities must operate within the boundaries of worship of their acolytes.  I find that is not the case whatsoever in my personal experiences.  They exist well beyond needing humans and could probably annihilate us without hesitating...if it weren't for their own alliances.  Spirits lie and people eager for a feeling of spiritual euphoria will easily feed or empower a predatory entitiy, such are my observations with Xtian churches.

 

Alternately, if humans are gods they should have the power to create gods, which is the crux of the topic I believe.

 

 

Totally agree this one and similar with what I believe. Imagine if it's all just a blob of energy. Sometimes the believe doesn't help some of the deities get more power but it help them getting more recognition. And our believe is some kind of radio feed signaling how at a certain level we are acquaintance with the said deities, they could have power to do something to us easier. But Imagine if we all too are deities, we don't actually need to know someone to cast a spell on them or to change world or event in general. Even we sometimes don't really care what other people think. I think that's similar with more influential deities, we worship them but they are not really bothered to care about us. But gods on the other hands are created because some said human believes in higher power than themselves creating this weird synergy between what they believe in and their existence. I do believe in more influential deities but then they probably don't care about us like how you don't really care about who your secret admirer is because they don't do things to you. So everything, really, coming back to you as you own ruler of your so called life.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As an animist, hard polytheist and Heathen I think gods exist with or without us. I am sure there are "gods" we know nothing about out their doing their thing. I view the gods as spirits who have over the centuries established work with humans and eventually had cults form around them. Then some, if you read Heathen myth were humans who brought great favor with the local spirits and became associated with a concept, like fertility. I do think deities have duties just like land spirits do so they tend to be busier than our own dead. That is why ancestors and local wights are accessed regularly and the gods when needed for larger scale community things like good crops, community divination, luck in war or travel. 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, yes , yes.

 

Hecate gave me what I wanted: a third child.

 

I probably didn't offer her what she wanted in exchange.

 

I then through no fault of my own lost custody of my two older children and lost my home and am still in exile.

 

One child came to live with me now she turned 16.

 

But i still cant move back to my old town

 

I was too inexperienced to handle Hecate.

 

Her name only sends shivers down my spine

 

 

 

 

 

I don't worship any of them either. I have on rare occasions asked for the help of certain deities.

 

 

I would think very carefully, and I would have to have a very desperate and almost hopeless situation before I would ask Hekate to help me with any thing ever again. She is cool, and powerful. Very effective and fast working. However the price she exacts is often more then most would be willing to pay. If she does not think you have offered her enough, she will take what she needs. Also, if you are not one of her chosen (in which case you may have no choice) it might be best to stay off her radar. You may very well find out you do not want her attention. My opinion, hard learned. From what I have heard, I got off lucky.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I totally love what is being pointed out here by RapunzelGnome:

 

 

"even in the Ten Commandments, the wording is "you shall have no other gods before me" and it never denies the existence of others. He just claims to be the most powerful, the creator and the one who will judge humanity in the end. Which, as you know, I believe is bullocks.

 

[quote name="RapunzelGnome" post="178127"

 

Elohim was plural.

The God of the Jews was actually multi faceted and not one

Elohim Ahad

How can plural be one?

 

I enjoyed reading your informed reply x

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From what I have found of my studies, whatever your mind believed shall manifest within your perception, the deities are creations of your mind.

 

Personally I avoid worship or the use of any spirits, ancestors or deities as I take full responsibility for my own magick, the best term to use is the "higher mind" as that is what is truly answering you, it is yourself, the subconscious. 

Be aware that by believing in something that is not yourself, you are giving your own power, the power of your mind, away to it. Remember that magick is mind over matter as termed in science. When I began my studies into magick as a teenager, I found a mirad of beliefs to wade through in order to find the truth which lay beneath all of those beliefs & what I found was most people do not want to believe in themselves, they do not want to believe they are responsible for every last atom in their lives. You are the perciever, your reality a construct of your mind as shown in quantum physics. Every last piece of it is as fluid & malleable as a dream, you are the centre of that dream feeding it thoughts & images which then reflect through it.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well put... I am now, myself, starting to understand and consider the truth in this.

Having studied, looked very deeply into and intensely, sincerely tried almost every form of magic, every religion, spiritual belief and practice, only to find that it all produces very little or no real tangible results. Why? Probably because I am producing little or no tangible results .. not "they".

With one exception. I am strongly pursuing the possibility that there is the Divine, the All, the One and only or whatever of the numerous labels used for it.. It is not god or deities, spirits, etc. IF any of those do happen to actually exist they are lessor entities. 

Just thinking out loud. As I try to find truth.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, Homeschoolie said:

Well put... I am now, myself, starting to understand and consider the truth in this.

Having studied, looked very deeply into and intensely, sincerely tried almost every form of magic, every religion, spiritual belief and practice, only to find that it all produces very little or no real tangible results. Why? Probably because I am producing little or no tangible results .. not "they".

With one exception. I am strongly pursuing the possibility that there is the Divine, the All, the One and only or whatever of the numerous labels used for it.. It is not god or deities, spirits, etc. IF any of those do happen to actually exist they are lessor entities. 

Just thinking out loud. As I try to find truth.

Read M.G. Hawkings Journals on Kindle psychokenesis & the Egyptian occult. I believe you will find them very enlightening. ☺ Thrown together, but the knowledge will serve you invaluably.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/22/2016 at 9:08 AM, RapunzelGnome said:

I think the Catholic Church of the dark ages was absolutely controlled by malevolent, vengeful spirits and tricksters that fed off the power of the church and used its leaders as willing pawns. But I'll leave that for another day.

Forgive me if this has already been answered, but I'm new and just found this thread.  Can I just say that I would LOVE to engage in a discourse about this, it's fascinating.  As in, people rubber-necking at an accident scene fascinating LOL.  Anyways, I too believe this and haven't met many others who have or, that could potentially have a great discussion about it.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...