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Deities Need Us To Exist


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#21 Anara

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Posted 23 February 2016 - 11:08 PM

If you don't mind my asking, what's the book?

 

Of course I don't mind. I am referencing the grimoire The Dragon Book of Essex by Andrew Chumbley.


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"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you will always long to return." ~ Leonardo Da Vinci

#22 RapunzelGnome

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Posted 24 February 2016 - 04:17 AM

Lucky
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#23 Caps

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Posted 24 February 2016 - 07:32 AM

From a left hand perspective, we are all deities.  We stand alone for eternity none above and none at side...Some have been here longer and have more influence.  To suggest that gods exist because of mankind means that these entities must operate within the boundaries of worship of their acolytes.  I find that is not the case whatsoever in my personal experiences.  They exist well beyond needing humans and could probably annihilate us without hesitating...if it weren't for their own alliances.  Spirits lie and people eager for a feeling of spiritual euphoria will easily feed or empower a predatory entitiy, such are my observations with Xtian churches.

 

Alternately, if humans are gods they should have the power to create gods, which is the crux of the topic I believe.


"It is the still and silent sea that drowns a man." - Old Norse proverb

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#24 Oroboros

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Posted 24 February 2016 - 02:04 PM

Anara so is there a way to get a physical copy for less than 500$ been drooling for a while now :).

Edited by Oroboros, 24 February 2016 - 03:13 PM.

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...From ev’ry depth of good and ill , The mystery which binds me still...— Poe

#25 Anara

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Posted 24 February 2016 - 04:43 PM

Anara so is there a way to get a physical copy for less than 500$ been drooling for a while now :).

 

You can try getting on the publisher's mailing list by writing to them, and who knows, maybe they'll publish another edition of the book in the future. Just know that you'll wait forever for a book to come once you reserve a copy...lol. I think this is the least expensive way to get those books though.

 

Otherwise, you can check sites like bookfinder.com and E-Bay daily and wait for a decent priced copy to become available. Eventually something will pop up. I remember checking these sites daily for months waiting for a copy of 13 Moons to show up in my price range. Finally found one and grabbed it.


Edited by Anara, 24 February 2016 - 04:44 PM.

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"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you will always long to return." ~ Leonardo Da Vinci

#26 RoseRed

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Posted 24 February 2016 - 08:15 PM

It's surprising what shows up on the paperbackswap.com site, too.


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#27 Oroboros

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Posted 25 February 2016 - 12:21 AM

Oh cool, never heard of that site. I'm a book fiend, so go to know.
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...From ev’ry depth of good and ill , The mystery which binds me still...— Poe

#28 RoseRed

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Posted 25 February 2016 - 01:45 PM

:D


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When my wings get tired I grab my broom.

#29 odalibuc

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Posted 30 March 2016 - 10:30 PM

In my spiritual journey, I've come to the following conclusion: Gods and Goddesses exist, and worked together to make the world. Then, they made high-power spirits to dwell within it to shape it and help it grow and live. Then, they made people. The people came to be aware of the spirits, and through the spirits, the Gods, and then the Gods all got into a giant pissing contest to see who would have the most followers and the most devout following when the end of time comes. I have also come to the realization that Gods are fickle, and that being one God's beloved child/worshiper makes you an enemy of at least five others. So if you want to worship, feel out what you think likes you best and stick with that. For general spellcasting though, spirits are five billion percent more reliable and willing to help anyone. Of course, there can be misunderstandings, like Anara said. People don't always know what God does what specific thing, so gods can get lumped together or have their duties split up. Also, there are plenty of spirit and other beings that are perfectly happy to be mistaken for gods and even encourage it - not everything is pure and scrupulous. But my point is that living, mortal things were the last forms of consciousness to come into being, and we will likely be the first to go.


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#30 Michele

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Posted 31 March 2016 - 01:24 AM

I don't think the energy that is a divinity needs humans to exist - I think the energy/ies have always existed and will always exist. If humans drop them, the communication and ways of contact will be forgotten, and the relationship will fade away, but the force will still exist. I think personifications (which are recognized as "individual divinities") may cease to exist, but the force that enlivens the personification will live forever.... it will just be recognized by a different personification by the next culture who has different realities to which they associate. Look how many grain gods, hunting gods, fertility gods, have morphed and/or overlapped throughout time. The force of those divinities was merely morphed into a different personification. If a culture deifies a specific human (say a king of old who took on a god-like status to the people) that may be different because it was a specific human, not a disembodied energy/force.

 

M


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#31 SelkieBlythe

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Posted 29 January 2017 - 05:51 PM

My personal belief (and I'm writing this before reading everyone else's answers, so If I'm repeating someone, it's unintentional):

 

I know this forum is a place where witchcraft is discussed separate of religious belief, but in order to understand where I"m coming from, I am a Hindu - specifically a Vaishnava (or Hare Krishna, as we're known) who is also a witch. My personal belief is that there are many gods, and one Supreme God, and we are all sparks of his energy. But we are all eternally individual souls, the demigods and us mere mortals alike. So, while we are connected to each other eternally, we never "become one with the light" permanently as some believe, because that isn't our ultimate expression of self. We are all divine energy, but that doesn't make us all God. 

 

That being said, relationships with the divine are based on free will. We're in this material world of our own free will, and it takes our free will desire to want to connect and have a relationship with another soul - whether it's Krishna or The Morrigan. It's a relationship, and relationships require both participants. So, yes, deities "need" us as much as we need them in order to have a relationship. They do not need us or our permission to exist any more than we need someone else's permission to exist. We just exist. Eternally. And we have eternal relationships of different kinds with different deities and expansions of the Supreme. Which is why I don't believe there is one single path for all people.

 

Again, this is what I believe, and I hope I have not caused any offense to anyone. 


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#32 Emrys

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Posted 27 February 2017 - 06:59 AM

Hmmm, I as someone coming from a long line of hekate followers do not agree with the perception of her. She has been deified by religions and this carries on mentally after you read about her. If you study ancient history she was a deity that was worshipped by most greeks. They all had hekations on their front yards and none were scared of her unless you brought on her wrath by doing something inherently evil. She was closely related to artemis, persephone etc. A guardian of the home, the homeless, women etc. Googling and what christianity has done to some of these deities is indeed sad. The Gnostics joined the Church in demonising Hekate, calling her one of the five demonic archons (rulers) who tormented souls, in her case by burning them...she takes what you give her and that is all. Either she helps you or she doesn't. She doesn't come after you if you don't give her a nice enough offering. Everyone experiences things differently but that is not correct. Maybe you invoked something else.
That being said, i don't think this is like an arthurian story that hints at worship of deities in order for their magic and existence to continue.

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#33 Solanaceae

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Posted 27 February 2017 - 08:56 AM

I am guessing that your comment is in response to mine.

Just for next time,  if you quote the person you are responding to,  it could decrease the likelihood of confusion.  There is a button for that in the lower right corner. 

 

 

All deity needs to approached with care as does any other entity,  however the great power of those most powerful entities needs to be kept in mind for those who want to walk that road.

Of course you are entitled to your opinion.  I do not wish to argue this point as I am not one of hers, but there are people,( some of whom are on here ) who's opinions I respect would disagree with you on some of your points as well.  

She has more then one face. For certain, she does not treat those who are not called and claimed by her the same as those who are.

As you say you come from a long line Hekate worshipers you most likely are.

 

It is not about how 'nice' the offering is, but she does have preferences. Since you where raised in a family that taught you correctly,  you may never have had to find that out the hard way.  

I did not say she would come after those who failed to give her proper offering either, I said she would take what she needed.

 

You do not know me of course so I can not blame you for suggesting I may have called up something else. ( For the record, I certainly never said anything about invoking. )

I may have suggested the same sort of thing to someone if I didn't think they knew better.  Lets just say I've been down that road a few times,  and I am confident I would know if it was another entity messing with me. 


Edited by Solanaceae, 27 February 2017 - 12:03 PM.

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Some are born to sweet delight,

Some are born to endless night.

 

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#34 Leighqt

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Posted 28 February 2017 - 02:28 PM

Thank you all for your comments. This thread is very thought provoking for me.
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