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Hedgecrossing, Trance, Vision??


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#21 RoseRed

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Posted 16 January 2016 - 02:30 PM

He can be a vengeful dick. It's a big decision for those that consider it.
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#22 Anara

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Posted 16 January 2016 - 03:16 PM

He can be a vengeful dick. It's a big decision for those that consider it.


and yet another reason to consider it, IMO.....why keep yourself bound to a deity that can be a vengeful dick? I wouldn't.

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#23 Aina

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Posted 16 January 2016 - 04:19 PM

I had to dig deep and think about your question regarding where are they all the time. Forgive me, but I may want to retract what I said about them housing themselves in the figurines during the day, for sure. I was very young when these things were happening and my memory about these sorts of things can be spotty (I'm in my upper 30s now so that was a long time ago..lol). Let me say, I assume they were housing themselves in the figurines. The possibility does exist that the bird decorations were portals as well. They, perhaps, came and went through them-I don't know. I don't actively remember hanging out with them during the day, at all, although I do have vague general memories of having "invisible friends"-but those experiences were not any different than any other little kid had. I am not confident that my invisible friends during the day were, in fact, my nightly visitors.

I do always remember-throughout my whole life having the feeling of being watched. I am certain I have always had guides around. I assume we all have them, it's just a matter of realizing it and seeking out a more solid relationship with them. I think some of them come and go (I've had a few stay for what seemed like just weeks or months before they disappeared) and some stay for long periods of time. I think the more permanent ones are always nearby, existing in the shadows.

Same here with the feeling of being watched. I've always thought we had a couple but have read in some cultures you can have up to 9 that come and go throughout your life.
Also as a side note, out of sheer curiosity, I attempted to contact these particular bird spirits from my childhood as I fell asleep the other night, after having this conversation here with you & I felt the beating of wings at the edge of consciousness, and I saw them. I couldn't get to them (I couldn't cross over to them), but I guess they are still around. The guides I have now look very different, but the possibility does exist that it is the same guides showing me different forms. I'll have to do some exploratory work this year and try to find out more. So, thanks for the conversation, you are helping me learn, too!

I need to learn how to communicate with mine. It's amazing, I work with spirits all the time and have no problem talking to them but my spirit guides, for some reason the communication isn't coming that easy.

re: the lords prayer backwards ritual. Yes, I hope you do look into it. It is a very freeing experience and has real, measurable benefits as far as being able to connect with the spirits of the world around us. It's not a step that is for everyone though, I realize, so you'll know if you feel the need to do it. In my opinion, if you think about doing it and feel fear, then definitely consider doing it! As a previous poster in another thread said regarding fear and doing the ritual-if you are too afraid to do it, then that "god" still has a deep hold on you. I found those words to be very wise.

"if you are too afraid to do it, then that "god" still has a deep hold on you." That's interesting. I never thought of it like that before.


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#24 RapunzelGnome

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Posted 16 January 2016 - 04:21 PM

You think he's vengeful when you are a believer-turned-witch, imagine how nerve-wracking it is to have been a formerly pledged in service to him as an anointed minister.
I think about it a lot...so far no lightning bolts or plagues.

I did the Lord's Prayer backwards ritual back when I first started on this path. I think I wanted to "feel" more than I did and was surprised when I didn't. I think that "the Spirit" (whose presence I once felt very closely) had been absent from my life, faith and deeds for so long that it didn't resist the final push. (And was probably ready to get rid of a minister with such resentment towards him anyways). People in the church always tell you how much Jesus cries when a sheep goes astray, how he leaves everything to go and bring the lamb back, but if anyone in heaven was crying tears for my departure, they sure kept it hidden from me.

I do think that a better ritual for me may have been the Apostle's Creed backward, as it's a statement of faith and belonging to the church, where the Lord's Prayer is just a prayer of petition and devotion. But that's just me and where I was coming from theologically.

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#25 Aina

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Posted 16 January 2016 - 04:35 PM

You think he's vengeful when you are a believer-turned-witch, imagine how nerve-wracking it is to have been a formerly pledged in service to him as an anointed minister.
I think about it a lot...so far no lightning bolts or plagues.

I did the Lord's Prayer backwards ritual back when I first started on this path. I think I wanted to "feel" more than I did and was surprised when I didn't. I think that "the Spirit" (whose presence I once felt very closely) had been absent from my life, faith and deeds for so long that it didn't resist the final push. (And was probably ready to get rid of a minister with such resentment towards him anyways). People in the church always tell you how much Jesus cries when a sheep goes astray, how he leaves everything to go and bring the lamb back, but if anyone in heaven was crying tears for my departure, they sure kept it hidden from me.

I do think that a better ritual for me may have been the Apostle's Creed backward, as it's a statement of faith and belonging to the church, where the Lord's Prayer is just a prayer of petition and devotion. But that's just me and where I was coming from theologically.


I left the church almost 20 years ago, so I won't be expecting any tears either...lol. In fact he's probably rolling his eyes right now. I'm still tossing around the idea of doing the ritual though, whether or not it would be beneficial for me.

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#26 RoseRed

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Posted 17 January 2016 - 01:51 PM

and yet another reason to consider it, IMO.....why keep yourself bound to a deity that can be a vengeful dick? I wouldn't.

It's a rather common trait across the board when it comes to deity - male or female.

You think he's vengeful when you are a believer-turned-witch, imagine how nerve-wracking it is to have been a formerly pledged in service to him as an anointed minister.
I think about it a lot...so far no lightning bolts or plagues.

I did the Lord's Prayer backwards ritual back when I first started on this path. I think I wanted to "feel" more than I did and was surprised when I didn't. I think that "the Spirit" (whose presence I once felt very closely) had been absent from my life, faith and deeds for so long that it didn't resist the final push. (And was probably ready to get rid of a minister with such resentment towards him anyways). People in the church always tell you how much Jesus cries when a sheep goes astray, how he leaves everything to go and bring the lamb back, but if anyone in heaven was crying tears for my departure, they sure kept it hidden from me.

I do think that a better ritual for me may have been the Apostle's Creed backward, as it's a statement of faith and belonging to the church, where the Lord's Prayer is just a prayer of petition and devotion. But that's just me and where I was coming from theologically.


I don't have to imagine - pledged in service, that is. It ain't easy being cheesy LOL

There's a lot of things in the AC that I still agree with. It's such a personal thing and way too easy to argue over.

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#27 Anara

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Posted 17 January 2016 - 04:30 PM

It's a rather common trait across the board when it comes to deity - male or female.


Then why the specific comment about this one in particular, if it is something you believe that is considered such a common trait among deities?

Have you done the ritual in question and found it to be a bad experience in some way, perhaps?

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#28 RoseRed

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Posted 17 January 2016 - 05:28 PM

Because that was the deity we were discussing.

I called myself a Christian Witch for more years than I care to admit to. :red_witch: I understand what she's talking about on a visceral level. It's also not untrue. It's a very real consideration for someone who was once a minister/priestess of said Deity. I get it. I very seriously considered being a nun. Who's surprised?

I quite fondly remember having a difficult, yet thought provoking and touching conversation. Those that participated in it will always have my appreciation. I don't suggest having one unless you're ready to do some really deep soul searching. With everything you have going on, perhaps, it's time.

No, I haven't done the ritual. I didn't do the Toad Bone Ritual either. Although, I keep coming across little desiccated frogs. The cute little green ones. It's just odd. I have a special love for toads. I'm not going to sacrifice one for personal power. Neither will I willingly sacrifice something that I love. That goes against everything that I am.

This has been an incredibly trans-formative time. The support that I found in this community is truly touching. We're all the same kind of weird here. We get it. It's been all big stuff - life, death, ancestors, marriage, divorce, family, you know - Life. Kinda like what you're going through, RG - Life. Death. Rebirth. Initiations. Trials (those suck, btw). You have some big changes coming up. Now's a really good time to figure out who you are and what you want. You're already in the fire. The frying pan ain't much better. :woot: But there is the other side of this. I call it being Tempered. Caps is a blacksmith, he understands the physical characteristics better than I do. Eventually - you're soup.

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#29 Anara

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Posted 18 January 2016 - 02:08 PM

Rose, I figured you hadn't actually done the ritual based on your initial response. I've never known or read of anyone who had a response that included vengeance from the christian god, after doing the ritual.

Also, IMO inferring that a decision like that is bigger or smaller, based on "who one once was in a church hierarchy" is kinda BS if you ask me. In my mind, either you are or are not a witch-period. No offense to anyone intended by that comment, but it is how I see it.

In reality, doing the ritual is admittedly more psychological than anything. It helps one cut ties -in his/her own mind, mostly. It's certainly not for everyone though. However, if you do decide to do it, nothing bad is going to happen to you. There won't be any lightening bolts, curses, or anything scary of the sort coming from a deity that can be a "vengeful dick". It just doesn't happen that way.

You may find that a sort of an awakening occurs when you do it- I experienced a deeper connection with the immediate unseen area right afterwards. I am glad I did it as it did allow me to make progress on my path. No regrets here at all.

As to the toad bone rite, that is a totally different ritual all together. I don't know why one is seemingly being lumped in with the other.

Anyway, to attempt to bring the thread back on track...Aina have you tried talking to those two spirits yet? I'm curious.

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#30 RoseRed

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Posted 18 January 2016 - 03:35 PM

Is there a question or conversation in there somewhere?

It is really bullshit to say that there is a difference between a parishioner and clergy? I think not.

The Toad Bone right is just about as much of a standard witchy ritual today as the lord's prayer backwards and it has much more to do with hedgecrossing and abilities than the backwards prayer. It's not being lumped - it's relevant to the conversation, since we're speaking of various rituals anyway.

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#31 Aina

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Posted 18 January 2016 - 04:54 PM

Anyway, to attempt to bring the thread back on track...Aina have you tried talking to those two spirits yet? I'm curious.


I have tried. I asked a few questions but they didn't speak. I did get a better visual though, so they're no longer black shadows. I was going to try again last night but yesterday was an off day for me, just had a hard time functioning. It might be the weather wreaking havoc on my fibro. So I'll try again after I get myself "balanced" again. Plan on spending some time with my ancestors and meditating so that should get me back on track.

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#32 RapunzelGnome

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Posted 18 January 2016 - 07:16 PM

When you enter the clergy, you go through rites and rituals, you recieve special anointings in the name of Christ and the Trinity, etc. You make oaths. You are "set aside" for service and the language of giving yourself and your life as an offering to God is ripe with magical intention (whether that's what they call it or not). I once had a pastor tell me that he beleived that a pastor who leaves their call is essentially an "anathema" ...that is, a vessel that was consecrated for use by God that has now been desecrated or cursed.

Now if a pagan had done all these rituals and oaths and anointings in the name of a pagan god, most of us would advise extreme caution against going against their word to this diety.

If you believe as I do, that the God of Christianity is, in fact, a diety (or maybe multiple spirits and entities that have attached themselves to the church, the names of its gods and to it worshippers) with the same powers as other spirits, then you take those oaths (and breaking them) very seriously, and the need to protect yourself from them. That's a responsibility that I've chosen to take upon myself because I believe that this "God" is not what he says he is (creator and savior and "one true God") and instead is just a manipulative, vengeful spirit feeding off of the worship of the followers of most powerful religion in the world. Just that, a manipulative, vengeful spirit. But nonetheless, a manipulative, vengeful spirit that that I ritually bound myself to and made oaths to.

So yes, I am a witch. But I 150% believe that the spirits invested in the Church I pledged myself in service to are going to be MORE offended by a minister turned witch then someone who attended the church and whose only oath to this god was the rituals of baptism and communion (which are still quite binding).

Hence the need to unbind yourself from this god, which we know can be tricky for any binding ritual. This is why for some folks, The Lord's Prayer backwards will be an easy, somewhat trivial ritual and for others, it will be extremely powerful.

For me, I was expecting thunder and lightning bolts when I performed it, and was disappointed. But for me, the small daily steps that I have taken over the past year of un-binding myself from my oaths are more meaningful and effective then a one time ritual, and I continue to take those steps to become fully free.

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#33 RapunzelGnome

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Posted 18 January 2016 - 07:22 PM

My apologies to Aina for getting so far off topic, but when someone calls BS on something that is so central to my path and dismisses it flippantly, I feel it has to be answered. Anara, you don't get to drop a bomb like that and then say "now back to the topic" when you were the one that derailed it by telling two of us that our thoughts on the issue were bullshit. Unless you have been through the process of becoming ordained clergy, you can't know what the implications are of all the ceremony and personal intent and ritual, nor how it affects the transition to being a witch.

Edited by RapunzelGnome, 18 January 2016 - 07:27 PM.

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#34 Anara

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Posted 18 January 2016 - 09:08 PM

My apologies to Aina for getting so far off topic, but when someone calls BS on something that is so central to my path and dismisses it flippantly, I feel it has to be answered. Anara, you don't get to drop a bomb like that and then say "now back to the topic" when you were the one that derailed it by telling two of us that our thoughts on the issue were bullshit. Unless you have been through the process of becoming ordained clergy, you can't know what the implications are of all the ceremony and personal intent and ritual, nor how it affects the transition to being a witch.

-------------------------------------------
Well then. Look what I did up in here, dropping bombs and all....geez. RG, for the record, I wasn't intentionally "dropping a bomb" and I wasn't being flippant either or being dismissive-even if it came across that way. If I hurt your feelings or made you feel like your thoughts don't matter, my honest apologies.

Also, RG, I wasn't calling your thoughts bullshit either, for the record-you did the ritual and you know nothing bad happens- I wasn't even talking to you, actually. If you care to discuss it further, you may certainly pm me and I'd be happy to talk more about this topic. Otherwise, how about we just drop it?

@Aina- hope you feel better soon and feel free to pm me regarding the spirit issue.

Edited by Anara, 18 January 2016 - 09:09 PM.

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#35 Anara

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Posted 18 January 2016 - 09:20 PM

@ Rose-bottom line, you didn't do the ritual, yet are assuming a vengeful god will come and be a "dick" if one does it. I take issue with that, because it comes across as a type of fear mongering...which is something that is oh so prevalent in the christian church (and again, if you have fear about doing the ritual-especially because of these kinds of thoughts-well then, seriously consider doing it!!-JMO!!)....it is something so many of us worked hard to get away from. I did the ritual, myself, and nothing of the sort happened. I'm doing great as a matter of fact! Couldn't be better.

If you would like to talk to me about it further- regarding the rest of this back and forth, you can certainly pm me as well, too! Otherwise, lets drop it, k? I'm good with just agreeing to disagree as well.

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#36 RoseRed

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Posted 19 January 2016 - 12:27 PM

No, I'll address it here. Especially since now I'm being accused of fear mongering because of your assumptions. We can wrap it up real quick because your assumption is wrong.

I really wish that people would stop assuming my motivations when I speak/type. Isn't it so much simpler to just ask or clarify?

For the record - what you described with the lightening bolts and whatnot - I'd expect more from Zeus. At least it matches the lore.

Rose-bottom line, you didn't do the ritual, yet are assuming a vengeful god will come and be a "dick" if one does it.


No, actually, I'm not.

He's a vengeful dick whether thoughts of this ritual are on the table or not. The vengeful dickishness has nothing at all to do with the ritual. Sorry if it hit a nerve?

Anara, were you ever one of 'His' to begin with? There's a world of difference between those that go to church because their parents make them or out of duty or whatever than those that have a Calling to it. Denying it exists is just silly.

There is a very deep spirituality and magic that runs through Christianity and Judaism. He is the god of 2 different religions or 1 religion and a giant splinter group. He's the god of 2 of the 3 top/most highly populated religions on the entire planet. We should be able to discuss these things - from whatever perspective we come from. I realize it's an emotional subject and heavy with baggage but we are adults here. Many of us have made the transition in many different ways.

Mine way was different than yours. And that's OK. RG's was very different than either of our transitions.

Please don't accuse me of fear mongering because I come from a different perspective. Or mention possible risks and consequences. Due diligence, informed decisions, different opinions, different experiences, etc.

Besides, I was speaking to RG, not to you, and when speaking to Clergy, one can usually dismiss the extra paragraphs and jump right to the core of the conversation.

Let's get one thing straightened out here and now. I don't have a fear of doing the ritual. I'm not a red thread kind of witch, I'm not Luciferian, I'm not a theistic Satanist. I'm not a lot of things. I also dislike redundancy. Do you (any of you) honestly believe that this is the one and only way of giving God a great big Fuck You! Cuz it's not.

The Lord's Prayer backwards goes back to the parody Black Masses recorded from the 7th century forward. I do not believe that it's worth the effort to try to strip that much history, and the resulting egregore, from it, if it's even possible to do so. It comes with a lot of baggage. We're talking about Huson's ritual. He's a very specific type of practitioner.

I did the ritual, myself, and nothing of the sort happened. I'm doing great as a matter of fact! Couldn't be better.


Good for you. Congrats.

I wouldn't expect lightening to strike - wherever you happened to be when you did the ritual. I don't think anyone really does.

Anara to RG
for the record-you did the ritual and you know nothing bad happens- I wasn't even talking to you, actually.


There's a lot of that going on in this thread LOL

She knows nothing bad happens? And you know this for certain because - more assumptions? She's going through a very difficult time. You are quite certain about what other people are thinking and what happens in the lives of others. Interesting.

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#37 Anara

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Posted 19 January 2016 - 06:00 PM

Hi Rose. Thanks for clarifying your position. I'm glad to hear you are not using fear mongering tactics to sway folks from doing the ritual in question after all, because that would surely be counterproductive in a witchcraft forum where we should all be free to discuss these things without being introduced to fear tactics on top of everything else we have to figure out on our individual paths.

Once again, the ritual is meant to simply help one deprogram from christian mentality (not necessarily saying "fuck you" to anyone). Its mostly a psychological thing and can be a very positive step for anyone who feels called to it. Not everyone will feel called to it and that's o.k too. Also, Rose is wrong, in that, it is something that only certain traditions will follow. You can be any kind of witch to do it that follows any kind of path....unless you are a variety of a "christian witch", obviously. Then that will probably be counterproductive to your own individual path. Your God won't like that, I'd assume. However, I will also say that supposed "baggage" coming along with the ritual is also not necessarily true. I carry around no baggage nor have I had any experiences with an egregore that is suspected of being attached to said ritual.

That's all I am really interesting in replying to, in reference to your post. I do hope you have a good day and I look forward to talking in other threads on other subjects.

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#38 RoseRed

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Posted 19 January 2016 - 10:51 PM

I think it's best if we just stop. I'm getting tired of you twisting my words and adding to them.

Also, Rose is wrong, in that, it is something that only certain traditions will follow.


I never said that.

But there are certain traditions that incorporate it.



I don't know what your hang up is with 'fear mongering tactics' or trying to scare people out of doing anything. It's completely accurate to say that a god that brags about being a vengeful dick is a vengeful dick. It's one of the reasons that people leave Christianity. It's a commonly accepted ritual. It doesn't always work out well.

However, I will also say that supposed "baggage" coming along with the ritual is also not necessarily true. I carry around no baggage nor have I had any experiences with an egregore that is suspected of being attached to said ritual.


No one, certainly not me, is denying that this was your personal experience with this. It is a pretty standard accepted thing in the occult world. Not everyone experiences these things. You had a very positive experience. Not everyone does.

I spoke about my own choices and decisions regarding this ritual. Why is that any less acceptable than yours?

You did this as a psychological exercise. RG did this to formally break her former Oaths. That's opposite ends of the spectrum as for why. And like everything else, what you put into it, why you do it, how, it all changes the experience.

You can be any kind of witch to do it that follows any kind of path....unless you are a variety of a "christian witch", obviously. Then that will probably be counterproductive to your own individual path. Your God won't like that, I'd assume.


LOLOL that's funny :cool_witch:

He doesn't like witches or spellcraft either. I don't think what He likes or doesn't is all that important of a consideration :roflhard:

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#39 Mountain Witch

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Posted 20 January 2016 - 01:33 AM

Anara & RoseRed:

ENOUGH! Either keep your comments to the OP or shut the fuck up.

For purposes of action nothing is more useful than narrowness of thought combined with energy of will.
~ Henri Frederic Amiel

You can access my blog and get autographed copies of my books through my website


#40 RoseRed

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Posted 20 January 2016 - 12:23 PM

Yes, Ma'am. This really does belong in a different thread.



Coming across this article again is quite timely for this thread. I think it's an excellent write up on the mechanics of hedgewitchery, astral travel, etc. These things can be so difficult to put into words and the author is good at doing that.

Walking Between Worlds http://sarahannelawl...between-worlds/

Edited by RoseRed, 20 January 2016 - 02:21 PM.

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