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Hedgecrossing, Trance, Vision??


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#1 Aina

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Posted 11 January 2016 - 04:57 AM

I'm not sure if this is hedge crossing. The little bit I've read on it (and I do mean a little) I never found interesting so I didn't continue to research the topic.

Last month, I had a deep meditation session after ancestor veneration (AV). I sit up when I meditate, but for some reason, half-way through, I decided to lie on my back. Then something happened - a vision?? I met a spirit and she gave me a visual message. When it ended, I just sat up, finished AV, wrote down what happened and did some research.

The 4th of this month, I attempted automatic writing with my mom. Nothing happened, so I figured she'd visit me in a dream (normally how she sends me messages), but that didn't happen either. I let it go and figured I'd try again later in the week. On the 5th, I was getting ready for bed - I laid down on my back and did japa (mantra recitation) and then closed my eyes. In between that awake/sleep stage it happened again.

I got an answer to the question I asked during automatic writing, but other things happened which I'm still trying to figure out. When it was over, I opened my eyes, rolled over and went to sleep. I wrote down everything when I woke up the next morning.

Both instances started off the same way - I was walking with two black shadowy figures (one on each side of me). We walked to the entrance of a forest. I turned my head and looked at both of them, and then I pulled back the brush and walked inside.

The first one, I ended up under water. I remember coming out of the water and walking back through the woods before I ended meditation. The second one, I was in the woods, in a temple/ruins ?? then on a road, then digging in the dirt, then I got pulled through the dirt and then back in the temple/ruins. This one was like I was getting flashes of different things.

I wasn't afraid either time, but I'm not sure how it happened because I wasn't looking to do anything like this.

1. Is this hedge crossing or just some deep trance vision?
2. I know everyone's different but...does this sound normal?
3. Can spirits pull you into visions or trance states?
4. Am I even using the correct terms?

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#2 RoseRed

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Posted 11 January 2016 - 01:39 PM

1. sounds more like you were in the hedge than crossing it - which is where many of those deep trance visions can play out

2. yeah

3. yuppers - especially if you initiate contact

4. I think so. I understood your post just fine.


Something that I've been coming across lately (I don't know if it's a newish thing or just that I've noticed it more) is that people are trying to force Spirit to communicate on their terms in their way instead of learning to communicate with them. If you went to a foriegn country would you expect everyone there to communicate in a way you understand or choose ~OR~ would you expect to have to learn their customs, traditions and language because you're in their space?

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#3 ArcticWitch

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Posted 11 January 2016 - 03:02 PM

I'd like to piggyback on RoseRed's excellent response by offering a resource that, although mundane in context, provides a perspective that I feel is prudent to embrace when exploring the other side of the Hedge for the first time. When reading this article, simply replace "India" with "Other side", and you've pretty much got a manual of how to behave respectfully while also getting what you need from your "trip":

http://www.bbc.com/t...n-in-letting-go

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#4 RoseRed

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Posted 11 January 2016 - 03:51 PM

Awesome article!

That's just what we do as witches - take what we find and figure out how to use it.

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#5 Aina

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Posted 11 January 2016 - 04:56 PM

1. sounds more like you were in the hedge than crossing it - which is where many of those deep trance visions can play out

2. yeah

3. yuppers - especially if you initiate contact

4. I think so. I understood your post just fine.


Something that I've been coming across lately (I don't know if it's a newish thing or just that I've noticed it more) is that people are trying to force Spirit to communicate on their terms in their way instead of learning to communicate with them. If you went to a foriegn country would you expect everyone there to communicate in a way you understand or choose ~OR~ would you expect to have to learn their customs, traditions and language because you're in their space?


That's one of the reasons I posted this because some of the things I've come across in regard to working with spirits seemed disrespectful to me. The automatic writing attempt was my first with that and obviously it's not the method they want to communicate with me through. I'll stick with what's been working.

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#6 Aina

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Posted 11 January 2016 - 05:05 PM

I'd like to piggyback on RoseRed's excellent response by offering a resource that, although mundane in context, provides a perspective that I feel is prudent to embrace when exploring the other side of the Hedge for the first time. When reading this article, simply replace "India" with "Other side", and you've pretty much got a manual of how to behave respectfully while also getting what you need from your "trip":

http://www.bbc.com/t...n-in-letting-go


---
Thank you ImamSua, this was very helpful and right on time.

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#7 Christine

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Posted 11 January 2016 - 06:07 PM

Sounds like you are having loads of success, too cool! I also agree with RoseRed's answers... but I hesitate to put names to a new experience immediately. I'm more in the camp of, enjoy it now, maintain my composure as much as possible, and maybe start putting names to it in a year or so.
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#8 ArcticWitch

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Posted 11 January 2016 - 07:14 PM

...but I hesitate to put names to a new experience immediately. I'm more in the camp of, enjoy it now, maintain my composure as much as possible, and maybe start putting names to it in a year or so.

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Ah, I'm in good company, then. I find it surprising how much I've been criticized as a witch for refusing to immediately (or even soon thereafter) slap a label on new things and experiences.

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#9 Autumn Moon

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Posted 11 January 2016 - 11:19 PM

That's one of the reasons I posted this because some of the things I've come across in regard to working with spirits seemed disrespectful to me. The automatic writing attempt was my first with that and obviously it's not the method they want to communicate with me through. I'll stick with what's been working.

____
For automatic writing to take place, the Spirit needs to control you to a certain extent, either mentally, physically or both. Perhaps your protections prevent this, or the Spirits don't want to communicate with you in that way.

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#10 Aina

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Posted 11 January 2016 - 11:33 PM

____
For automatic writing to take place, the Spirit needs to control you to a certain extent, either mentally, physically or both. Perhaps your protections prevent this, or the Spirits don't want to communicate with you in that way.


----
I was thinking about this a little while ago. They seem to send me messages through dreams, symbols, even animals - but it's always visual. That might be why I'm pulled more toward scrying as well.

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#11 Aina

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Posted 13 January 2016 - 04:45 AM

I have a couple more questions.

1. Are hedge-riding and hedge-crossing the same thing? Some sites have them being the same thing while others as two different things.

What is hedge-riding/crossing?

Hedge-riding is when one is between the worlds--on the fence between this world and the next. Hedge-crossing is when one's spirit takes flight into one of the Otherworlds (either the Upperworld or the Underworld) in search of wisdom, speaking with the dead and ancestors, etc.

2. Can this happen during scrying as well? The two black shadowy figures that were with me at the beginning of the visions were also with me before during a scrying session. They were walking in a circle around me.

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#12 Caps

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Posted 13 January 2016 - 08:51 AM

I'm usually very hesitant about this topic but it's an important one for someone who is looking to expand their knowledge of the occult. I agree with the definition you provided mostly, crossing is usually very distinct from riding to me, riding is more of a mesh or a blending of the mundane and the beyond. Contact beyond the veil most certainly can result from scrying, in fact in my opinion is what most often drives it with the exception of egregori and constructs. This is why protection is so critically important.
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#13 RoseRed

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Posted 13 January 2016 - 01:28 PM

Any idea who they are?

Many people are afraid of 'black shadowy figures' but a lot of the time - it's just a lack of being able to see the details.

I mostly agree with the definition there.

I don't think astral projection and hedging are the same thing. It's more like the difference between ship and an airplane. Sure, they'll both take you somewhere, in different ways and to different places, but unless you're an Avenger - that ship ain't gonna fly.

You can have spirits/entities with you all the time. Most people do - they're everywhere. Are you certain that they don't walk with you regularly and you just don't notice them? Do they only come out while you're Working? Or is that the time when you tune into your senses that allows you to see/experience them?

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#14 Aina

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Posted 13 January 2016 - 03:01 PM

Any idea who they are?

I have no idea who they are but I don't feel any fear or anything negative. It's feels protective in a way.

Many people are afraid of 'black shadowy figures' but a lot of the time - it's just a lack of being able to see the details.

I mostly agree with the definition there.

I don't think astral projection and hedging are the same thing. It's more like the difference between ship and an airplane. Sure, they'll both take you somewhere, in different ways and to different places, but unless you're an Avenger - that ship ain't gonna fly.

You can have spirits/entities with you all the time. Most people do - they're everywhere. Are you certain that they don't walk with you regularly and you just don't notice them? Do they only come out while you're Working? Or is that the time when you tune into your senses that allows you to see/experience them?

Honestly, I'm not sure. I had an abusive childhood, so I really don't remember much of anything from that time period. There was a period in my late 20s when my sister said I used to talk about two black shadows but I don't remember it. Then there are the instances where a black shadow was holding me down in bed and it always ended up with me fighting to get free. I think it may have triggered my PTSD. But the more I think about it, it may have been trying to show me something. That doesn't happen anymore though - not since I started on my path.

Wow, this actually jogged my memory so thanks for asking these questions.


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#15 RoseRed

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Posted 13 January 2016 - 03:38 PM

I'm glad they were helpful.

Can you ask your sister about those two shadow figures again? Perhaps, there is important information there that you're finally ready to receive.

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#16 ArcticWitch

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Posted 13 January 2016 - 04:53 PM

Then there are the instances where a black shadow was holding me down in bed and it always ended up with me fighting to get free. I think it may have triggered my PTSD. But the more I think about it, it may have been trying to show me something. That doesn't happen anymore though - not since I started on my path.

----
Same here, on all counts. Thirty years of being haunted, stalked, followed by these Things at night when I was trying to sleep- and it all stopped literally the day that I began formally practicing witchcraft. It's a beautiful thing when that happens to us, isn't it?

Have you tried using witchcraft to address your PTSD?

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#17 Aina

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Posted 13 January 2016 - 06:13 PM

I'm glad they were helpful.

Can you ask your sister about those two shadow figures again? Perhaps, there is important information there that you're finally ready to receive.


----
The only thing she remembers is that I mentioned them. It would have been about 14 years ago.

----
Same here, on all counts. Thirty years of being haunted, stalked, followed by these Things at night when I was trying to sleep- and it all stopped literally the day that I began formally practicing witchcraft. It's a beautiful thing when that happens to us, isn't it?

Have you tried using witchcraft to address your PTSD?


---
It is. I wish I could remember more, especially from my childhood so I can figure out if they've always been there. It's nice to know there are others who share these experiences. It's hard going through life and not being able to talk to anyone about this stuff without getting looked at crazy.

I actually started getting my PTSD under control in 2012 through meditation and mantras. I've also done a couple of banishing rituals for fear and anxiety which have helped. I've only had a few panic attacks since. I've also done a lot of work with my ancestors on balancing my emotions (I'm a little quick to anger - that's gotten better...lol) and working through past abuse. I'm currently looking into healing as I have two chronic pain conditions.

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#18 Anara

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Posted 13 January 2016 - 06:46 PM

You're not crazy :smile:

In my experience, I knew without a doubt when I actually crossed for the first time (as an adult). As a small kid, I was crossing all of the time without realizing what it was I was doing. In regards to this, what I find interesting about your post is the 2 beings, which is why I am responding. As a small child, 2 beings (not shadowy figures-they showed themselves as a particular kind of bird), one male and one female-would come get me out of bed and fly on either side of me to the other-world during the in-between awake/sleep state...and we would be off to the other world as I fell asleep.This stopped happening spontaneously around age 8 or 9, I think. Coincidentally (or not so much a coincidence, perhaps??), it stopped happening around the time my grandmother got me baptized at her church. It's been rough getting myself back to what I do naturally (and remembering the details), but doing the lords prayer backwards ritual helped (there is a thread on different witches thoughts on this, somewhere in forums BTW)...along with a few other things, quite honestly. Just sayin' is all.

I am not saying your two figures are the same sort of thing, but I am leaning that way because they are with you during the visions. During the day my 2 would house themselves in bird figurines that my mother had and fly out of them and come get me at night. I had no fear as a small child (I believe fear is something we learn from this world) and I was never harmed by these beings. The other thing I find interesting is that your shadow figures walk and so you walk on the ground with them. Mine flew and I flew with them.

If I am right about your shadow figures, they are mainly going to be there during crossing over or hedge riding experiences-they are guides and they probably have been there for a long time. Try asking them to show you a clearer face-or a different face-they can do that. It sounds like you are already aware on some level that they mean you no harm. Use common sense though, of course, and take care to not get tricked. Also, it might be worth it to explore ritual to unbind yourself, if that is an issue with seeing them clearly.

as to Q#3 from the OP-yes, absolutely...I've been pulled into some strange worlds by the spirits-places that I couldn't even begin to tell you how to get there, quite honestly.
as for Q#1-I don't know, I wasn't there so I couldn't tell you. I imagine you will figure it out in time.

Good luck & happy travels

Edited by Anara, 13 January 2016 - 06:48 PM.

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#19 Aina

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Posted 13 January 2016 - 08:32 PM

You're not crazy :smile:

In my experience, I knew without a doubt when I actually crossed for the first time (as an adult). As a small kid, I was crossing all of the time without realizing what it was I was doing. In regards to this, what I find interesting about your post is the 2 beings, which is why I am responding. As a small child, 2 beings (not shadowy figures-they showed themselves as a particular kind of bird), one male and one female-would come get me out of bed and fly on either side of me to the other-world during the in-between awake/sleep state...and we would be off to the other world as I fell asleep.This stopped happening spontaneously around age 8 or 9, I think. Coincidentally (or not so much a coincidence, perhaps??), it stopped happening around the time my grandmother got me baptized at her church. It's been rough getting myself back to what I do naturally (and remembering the details), but doing the lords prayer backwards ritual helped (there is a thread on different witches thoughts on this, somewhere in forums BTW)...along with a few other things, quite honestly. Just sayin' is all.

I've heard from other people that they've recited the lord's prayer backwards as well and that it helped them. Being raised Christian and my dad being a minister, this might be something I need to explore.

I am not saying your two figures are the same sort of thing, but I am leaning that way because they are with you during the visions. During the day my 2 would house themselves in bird figurines that my mother had and fly out of them and come get me at night. I had no fear as a small child (I believe fear is something we learn from this world) and I was never harmed by these beings. The other thing I find interesting is that your shadow figures walk and so you walk on the ground with them. Mine flew and I flew with them.

Seeing that yours housed themselves in your mom's figurines, does that mean they're with us all the time? RoseRed asked a few questions earlier which coincide with this - "Are you certain that they don't walk with you regularly and you just don't notice them? Do they only come out while you're Working? Or is that the time when you tune into your senses that allows you to see/experience them?

If I am right about your shadow figures, they are mainly going to be there during crossing over or hedge riding experiences-they are guides and they probably have been there for a long time. Try asking them to show you a clearer face-or a different face-they can do that. It sounds like you are already aware on some level that they mean you no harm. Use common sense though, of course, and take care to not get tricked. Also, it might be worth it to explore ritual to unbind yourself, if that is an issue with seeing them clearly.

I've never tried talking to them before, not even when I was scrying - in fact, I saw them and then went back to scrying - there wasn't a "who the hell are you two" moment. Talking to them is something I need to do.

as to Q#3 from the OP-yes, absolutely...I've been pulled into some strange worlds by the spirits-places that I couldn't even begin to tell you how to get there, quite honestly.
as for Q#1-I don't know, I wasn't there so I couldn't tell you. I imagine you will figure it out in time.

Good luck & happy travels

Thank you so much for this, it's very helpful.


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#20 Anara

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Posted 16 January 2016 - 02:15 PM

I had to dig deep and think about your question regarding where are they all the time. Forgive me, but I may want to retract what I said about them housing themselves in the figurines during the day, for sure. I was very young when these things were happening and my memory about these sorts of things can be spotty (I'm in my upper 30s now so that was a long time ago..lol). Let me say, I assume they were housing themselves in the figurines. The possibility does exist that the bird decorations were portals as well. They, perhaps, came and went through them-I don't know. I don't actively remember hanging out with them during the day, at all, although I do have vague general memories of having "invisible friends"-but those experiences were not any different than any other little kid had. I am not confident that my invisible friends during the day were, in fact, my nightly visitors.

I do always remember-throughout my whole life having the feeling of being watched. I am certain I have always had guides around. I assume we all have them, it's just a matter of realizing it and seeking out a more solid relationship with them. I think some of them come and go (I've had a few stay for what seemed like just weeks or months before they disappeared) and some stay for long periods of time. I think the more permanent ones are always nearby, existing in the shadows.

Also as a side note, out of sheer curiosity, I attempted to contact these particular bird spirits from my childhood as I fell asleep the other night, after having this conversation here with you & I felt the beating of wings at the edge of consciousness, and I saw them. I couldn't get to them (I couldn't cross over to them), but I guess they are still around. The guides I have now look very different, but the possibility does exist that it is the same guides showing me different forms. I'll have to do some exploratory work this year and try to find out more. So, thanks for the conversation, you are helping me learn, too!

re: the lords prayer backwards ritual. Yes, I hope you do look into it. It is a very freeing experience and has real, measurable benefits as far as being able to connect with the spirits of the world around us. It's not a step that is for everyone though, I realize, so you'll know if you feel the need to do it. In my opinion, if you think about doing it and feel fear, then definitely consider doing it! As a previous poster in another thread said regarding fear and doing the ritual-if you are too afraid to do it, then that "god" still has a deep hold on you. I found those words to be very wise.

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