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Starting a line of communication to the unseen


ShamoonSigil
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Awesome post, Nikki! I've thought in passing about adding scent to my works before, but now I feel I should really try it. My grandma loved perfume, after all.

That's a thumbs up from me :party9:

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Regarding whether or not water repels or attracts spirits - do you (any of you) think the state of the water effects its attractiveness? Like whether it is moving vs. stagnant?

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[quote name="Autumn Moon" post="175668" timestamp="1445343004"]

 

____________

As you say, water is used in ancestor veneration, but I am referring to Spirit invites, ancestor or not...just Spirit invite, and I don't think water is a hindrance to that. The water thing reminds me of the old superstition that vampires can't cross running water

. Never heard of that.

 

But, hey, each to their own experiences. Yup. I've learned so much from others this way.

 

I have found that two candles side by side and lighted form a great doorway for communication. Great suggestion for the OP.

 

Most are of the opinion that water is highly attractive to Spirits. I had a very wise professor who once said, "If 10 minds agree - 9 are unnecessary."

 

This is not to say that using water to attract spirit isn't widely used or accepted or viable practice. I KNOW this...lol. But there's no proof that using water is 100% effective either. Offering another perspective based on hands-on experience, even if it's not 'the norm', doesn't decrease its value. This is very simple, really. If someone isn't getting a result, or the result they hoped for, it's always nice to have an alternative. Water is also often used to 'rid' oneself of various energies -- so, I think it's a fascinating area to explore.

 

I believe Spirits will communicate, water or no, fragrance or no, if they want to, and in many, but not all cases if you want the communication, but then there are those that just have to bug you, lol. Tell me about it...lmao.

 

Regarding fragrance though, would you not have had to know the person in life for you to know what fragrance they like, which kind of goes back to ancestors, and or friends. Yeah, I think the OP made a specific reference to communicating with his/her grandfather.

 

What about Spirits you did not know in life...how would you know what fragrance they like? Good question. How would you know?

 

What if you choose one they hate, then that would drive them away. Personally, I would not use fragrance in all cases. But, using a scent that is hated definitely has its applications.

 

However, offering something they like (hopefully), or having something of theirs, I think is a good link to open up communication with them. It really is. I think scent is an area that's often overlooked, that's why I mentioned it.

 

( I see offerings and invitation as two separate functions with different purposes, but that's me)

 

You mentioned Spirit guardians, guides, so it opened up the conversation to that. Actually, I didn't - the OP mentioned guardians. I thought I'd be nice and offer an exercise to explore.

 

 

 

My comment was an observation, and from that, my belief that not all people have them, and yes I think it may only be a chosen few...not talking about a fetch. How is a person selected, I don't know. Guardian, to me, is one who guards and protects you, to use your words, all those times something 'told' you, intervened on your behalf, saved your butt

 

I'm so glad you brought this up.

 

This is what I love so much about craft and the ideas put forth here.

 

Certainly, so much of the inner workings of the spirit realm is unknown to those who've yet to cross. I'd venture to guess, or assert, that every human being can find at least one instance that is a logic-defying WHOA moment in their lives. Whether or not this is the result of a guardian, who knows? For the OP or any person new to this practice, going back to those times may be indispensable moving forward. Even if it's to tap into the power of their own instincts and mentally connect to how those instincts manifest. Ultimately, we are our own guardians.

 

It would be interesting to explore what others think guardians are.

__________

"A note about water: In my experience, water has a draining effect. No pun intended. Unless you want spirit steer clear, I would not use water to entice".

 

I found the above to be dogmatic, all or nothing approach, so my original post was for perspective, and I did not disagree about fragrance which you seem to be so stuck on...I think it is good to keep an open mind, seriously considering the experiences of others that are different than your own, rather than viewing it as an attack on one's ideas. From what you said, it appears that I have a different experience with water and Spirit communication than you have.

 

I was not so much addressing the OP on the topic, but your post.

 

Umm...you did mention guides and guardians you know (see below, I can't be bothered with the multi-quote thing), and since we are speaking of SPIRITS, then ergo...Spirit Guide.

 

"As always, it's important acknowledge the wisdom and care your guides provide. Thank them.

 

You could respectfully request that they come now forth in a way that YOU are now able to understand their presence".

 

"Guardian Spirits: In my experience, you have them already. You've had them all along".

 

Because 10 minds agree, does not necessarily make it fact, but until proven, it makes it theory and perspective.

 

When speaking of Spirit communication, there is nothing that can be proven. One takes the most common practice and sees if it works for them most of the time. Sometimes they may have to add or subtract something for a particular Spirit. It does not make it wrong or right, except for that particular Spirit.

 

Edited because my first post did not post right.

Edited by Autumn Moon
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I have the (very deformed) lead ball. I'll post a pic when I find my misplaced camera, if you like. I know some people can read such things.

 

As for water, it isn't just used in hoodoo. Look up something called a boveda. It's used in multiple traditions. Usually one large glass for 'spirit' or 'the creator' and one glass for each ancestor.

 

Also, in Vodou, ancestral altars are placed on the ground, as the spirits are believed to travel through the ground water. It's also traditional in the craft to call spirits at rivers and such...remember all those sacrifices done to placate the nature spirits?

 

Also, to feed spirits, whiskey or rum or tequila or whatever is culturally relevant are an excellent offering, and tobacco, even if they didn't smoke. Just not too much liquor, not more than a few tablespoons, or at most a shot glass...they can act up, just like we embodied folk!

___________

Thanks for the info Aurelian on water and Hoodoo, along with the info on Vodou.

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Totally off topic but Icouldn't make heads or tails out of the last few posts on my phone. I had to use the laptop. In case they confuse anyone else... I think it's the quote thingy and colors. I suck at electronics - what do I know lol

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When speaking of Spirit communication, there is nothing that can be proven. One takes the most common practice and sees if it works for them most of the time. Sometimes they may have to add or subtract something for a particular Spirit. It does not make it wrong or right, except for that particular Spirit.

Absolutely.

Edited by Nikki
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__________

"A note about water: In my experience, water has a draining effect. No pun intended. Unless you want spirit steer clear, I would not use water to entice".

 

I found the above to be dogmatic, all or nothing approach, so my original post was for perspective,

 

It’s comical that any sentence beginning with “In my experience’ is perceived as dogmatic.

 

That word alone is steeped in religious overtones. The way I understand Dogma is that it’s a principle or set of precepts in a belief system… or Tradition: Such a hoodoo, Voodoo. Those are the examples mentioned, right?

 

My original post clearly included the statement It's no accident that tobacco and whiskey are so widely used. Gee, I wonder how I knew that? Could it be that I’m fully aware of other practices and their dogma? Nooooo, can’t be…lol.

Maybe for those who aren’t aware how these Traditions use water - they will become ‘enlightened’ if they look into said Traditions?

I don’t rightly know. Can’t say.

and I did not disagree about fragrance.. Who said you did? which you seem to be so stuck on...'Stuck’? Here’s my reply to that little remark:

Kettle, kettle. Black, black.

 

I think it is good to keep an open mind, seriously considering the experiences of others that are different than your own -- Take your own advice.

Having said this, it seems to me that you are less inclined to be open to other perspectives than I. rather than viewing it as an attack on one's ideas. I didn’t take any of what you wrote as an ‘attack’ Not at all… but, since you used that word, I do now.

 

From what you said, it appears that I have a different experience with water and Spirit communication than you have. No shit.

 

I was not so much addressing the OP on the topic, but your post.

 

Umm...you did mention guides and guardians you know (see below, I can't be bothered with the multi-quote thing), and since we are speaking of SPIRITS, then ergo...Spirit Guide.Yes, once and for all… The OP mentioned guardian spirits in the post directly above my first response.

Page 4 - Post # 61. Again, I offered my thoughts and a possible exercise to explore. Did you? Nope.

Disagreeing is easy. What poses more of a challenge is actually being able to formulate the reason/s why by fully offering another perspective based on ones own experience within that area of practice. Clearly, this something you are presently unwilling or unable to do.

 

 

 

 

"As always, it's important acknowledge the wisdom and care your guides provide. Thank them.

 

You could respectfully request that they come now forth in a way that YOU are now able to understand their presence".

 

"Guardian Spirits: In my experience, you have them already. You've had them all along".

 

Because 10 minds agree, does not necessarily make it fact, but until proven, it makes it theory and perspective. Exactly. Thank You for proving my point

 

I was more than happy to engage in an exchange of experience-based ideas about this subject. I love when others share how they practice and what they’ve learned along the way. You, however, chose not to expand on your opinions - they weren’t even ideas. Of course, this is your choice entirely, but, it reads as trifling and intellectually weak - to me. Especially, since you latched onto to my posting, not the general thread itself.

 

When speaking of Spirit communication, there is nothing that can be proven. One takes the most common if they are starting out, maybe practice and sees if it works for them most of the time. Sometimes they may have to add or subtract something for a particular Spirit. It does not make it wrong or right, except for that particular Spirit. I dig that. It's about them.

 

I'm not trying to tell you that you're wrong. Stop trying to imply I am. I don't need (and didn't ask, BTW) for another 'perceptive' regarding what has proven effective / ineffective in my practice and experience. Since that comment seems directed at me (not the general population) I find it patronizing, at best -- simply by the nature you assume this is a concept that I'm unaware of. If I read this wrong, my apologies.

 

I know why certain 'common practices' don't work for me... and, perhaps other people will find out the same. Not everyone fits into the 'common' category.... thankfully !!!

 

Feel free to offer up your own thoughts about your own practice based on your own experiences with communicating with the Unseen.

 

(instead of attempting to assert your 'perspective' upon my experience ) I think it's rude.

 

Edited because my first post did not post right.

 

In the ‘spirit’ of not wishing to derail this otherwise fascinating thread any further, if you’ve got something to add that doesn’t include nitpicking someone else's personal Practice based on years of experience doing this important type of work, please do.

 

If not…Hopefully someone else will generously share some of their well-earned knowledge about how to begin communicating with the Unseen that’s personally unique, tired and true (for them) that others might actually find useful while they explore their individual paths.

Edited by Nikki
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  • 4 weeks later...

Well, not sharing knowledge, but I do have question. My apartment seems to be a freaking vault, and Im not sure why. What I mean is, other places I have some success communicating. For whatever reason in my apartment it is just flat, nothing. Not bad, not negative, just nothing there. So, my question is- any obvious things that could be blocking? It would be highly preferable to not need to go outside to work all the time.

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  • 5 months later...

Same here, Jojo. Some stay around, others come and go; some visit once then don't return. It's an ever- changing, evolving 'cast of characters'.... Keeps it interesting.

 

Can be informative, too.  I'll know that someone has died long before the phone rings -- because I see him/her 'standing' in my living room (or some such).

 

Also, I've 'lost' some 'unseen' because someone else dies - Spirit A leaves when Person B passes on, and they both go off together.

If these two are close relatives or friends, it can be very bittersweet.

Edited by Nikki
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@O... I kinda like that your apartment is a vault...lol.... however, a witch's home should be what he/ she wants it to be.

 

Perhaps you are more naturally attuned to land spirits... hence the outdoor activity. Which, you can 'take' indoors, if you really wanted to.... but exploring 'their world' is half the fun and twice the learning, no?  

Edited by Nikki
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I would suggest beginning with Ancestors. They have a direct connection to you and your bloodline which increases your ability to call to them and vice versa, and many (be warned not all) will have enough interest in you; their descendant to not attempt to do any harm to you. That being said you may have no connection with your ancestors. Not everyone does. Perhaps you hear the chatter or nature spirits or hear the whispering voices of Demons. 

Everyone is different, so which course you take to contact noncorporeal beings isn't something I can, with confidence recommend to you. This is what I will say: 

    1. Protect yourself-Before you go summoning things or reaching out to hear their voices learn how to shield and defend against what you are trying to communicate with. Never summon or contact what you cannot banish.

    2. Before contacting any sort of spirit or entity eat something. This may sound silly but it can take a great deal of energy to do this, especially the first few tries, and when you are successful you may become unaware of the passing of time. Eating and drinking something before trying is just a good health practice and has the added benefit of grounding you a bit.

    3. Never do this when you are sick. The body and mind can be in a weakened state when you're ill. Wait until those sniffles pass. If something decides to attack you(Not that this will definitely happen but still) it can make you even sicker. 

    4. Research, research, research. Arm yourself with information. The more you know about what/who you are talking to the better off you'll be; both in how you approach the spirit and how you react to it. Knowledge is power.It's a cliche for a reason.

    5. Be Respectful. How would you feel if you got yanked out of your life and forced to talk to someone who then starts asking you for stuff? I'd be pretty put out myself. lol. In that vein, I never demand a being or spirit speak to me. I ask, and then I wait. You do not have to do it my way at all. To each their own, but it's just a suggestion.

     Basically follow these three items: Safe, Sane, Respectful; and you should be good. `

 

Another thing I'll throw out there is this: (keep in mind I have no idea where you are on your path) Before you try communing with spirits, ensure a few things. Do you know how to shield?  Do you know how to trance, and control the trance state? Have you practiced with sensing what you can't see all around you?  How are you visualization skills?  These things are as much a muscle as your biceps are. You want to be strong and able before jumping into the ring so to speak. Best of luck! 

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  • 2 months later...

Another thing I'll throw out there is this: (keep in mind I have no idea where you are on your path) Before you try communing with spirits, ensure a few things. Do you know how to shield?  Do you know how to trance, and control the trance state? Have you practiced with sensing what you can't see all around you?  How are you visualization skills?  These things are as much a muscle as your biceps are. You want to be strong and able before jumping into the ring so to speak. Best of luck! 

 

Aurora, I am interested in this, connecting with the Unseen, but I am very new. I don't want to get myself or my family into trouble. How do I learn these shielding techqniques, to trance and control the trance state, and practicing seeing what you can't see? Also, visualization? I have tried to find the vision oil that another member spoke of, but it seems to be gone, for now. So I ordered this: https://www.amazon.com/Vision-Hoodoo-Voodoo-Wicca-Santeria/dp/B00EBYOE1W. I am hoping that it will help me to see things that I don't seem to be able to see, at this point. Any advice is appreciated.

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Aurora, I am interested in this, connecting with the Unseen, but I am very new. I don't want to get myself or my family into trouble. How do I learn these shielding techqniques, to trance and control the trance state, and practicing seeing what you can't see? Also, visualization? I have tried to find the vision oil that another member spoke of, but it seems to be gone, for now. So I ordered this: https://www.amazon.com/Vision-Hoodoo-Voodoo-Wicca-Santeria/dp/B00EBYOE1W. I am hoping that it will help me to see things that I don't seem to be able to see, at this point. Any advice is appreciated.

 

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I realize this was directed at another member-but I thought this may be helpful http://www.traditionalwitch.net/forums/topic/1849-psychically-attacked/page-2?hl=shielding

 

I personally would not START practicing these techniques with using any  substance unless you really have difficulty relaxing.  In which case maybe a small amount of something you are already used to like a little wine.  These things have their place for sure, but I think it's difficult to explore the experience if you don't know how much is being influenced by whatever substance you are using.  There are more resources on this site you may find helpful using the search function. (Tip: Always go to the main forums page before you plug in your search or else it just searches the page you are currently on.)  Just some thoughts.

 

  THAT oil may be great. I don't know anything about it- maybe someone else here does.  In general, you may want to use vendors and manufacturers recommended by someone you know and trust, just because there is such a vast array of crap being sold online. 

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----------

I realize this was directed at another member-but I thought this may be helpful http://www.traditionalwitch.net/forums/topic/1849-psychically-attacked/page-2?hl=shielding

 

I personally would not START practicing these techniques with using any  substance unless you really have difficulty relaxing.  In which case maybe a small amount of something you are already used to like a little wine.  These things have their place for sure, but I think it's difficult to explore the experience if you don't know how much is being influenced by whatever substance you are using.  There are more resources on this site you may find helpful using the search function. (Tip: Always go to the main forums page before you plug in your search or else it just searches the page you are currently on.)  Just some thoughts.

 

  THAT oil may be great. I don't know anything about it- maybe someone else here does.  In general, you may want to use vendors and manufacturers recommended by someone you know and trust, just because there is such a vast array of crap being sold online. 

 

Thank you so much, Oroboros! I welcome all advice. :) I will look at the link you provided and do some studying on it.

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I can think of a couple aids to trance. First center then add on one or more of these:

1. Rocking side to side while seated, or forward &back in a rocking chair

2. With eyes closed, look upward at the 3rd eye, center of the forehead Don't strain.

3. "Park" the tongue, so it is suspended without touching any part of the mouth when relaxed.

4. The most common is deep, relaxed breathing.

Edited by Zombee
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I can think of a couple aids to trance. First center then add on one or more of these:

1. Rocking side to side while seated, or forward &back in a rocking chair

2. With eyes closed, look upward at the 3rd eye, center of the forehead Don't strain.

3. "Park" the tongue, so it is suspended without touching any part of the mouth when relaxed.

4. The most common is deep, relaxed breathing.

 

That almost sounds like meditating. Is that what that it? Are you still alert when in a trance? I think I am going to learn some protection techniques before I try putting myself into a trance, I think it would be smart to learn to protect myself before I do anything like that. Thank you, Zombee!

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Great suggestions! I just have to mention that trance doesnt automatically= spirit communication. I bet it does for some, but not all. ( Just in case someone pops on this thread reading it and automatically assumes that) 

 

You are alert in varying degrees while in trance. Often your conscious mind will kind of take a break while your subconscious mind is more open to absorbing suggestions, and changes are more able to take place in that state of mind.  Some people are able to completely zone out to the point of trance amnesia, but many don't go that far. You will most likely be fully aware, but open in ways that you arent normally whilst not in trance. 

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Great suggestions! I just have to mention that trance doesnt automatically= spirit communication. I bet it does for some, but not all. ( Just in case someone pops on this thread reading it and automatically assumes that) 

 

You are alert in varying degrees while in trance. Often your conscious mind will kind of take a break while your subconscious mind is more open to absorbing suggestions, and changes are more able to take place in that state of mind.  Some people are able to completely zone out to the point of trance amnesia, but many don't go that far. You will most likely be fully aware, but open in ways that you arent normally whilst not in trance. 

 

 

Okay, question. Sometimes while driving, I'll "zone out". I'll be having daydreams, or... I don't know what. But I'll be at one place, snap away from my "dream", and suddenly realize that I'm in a completely different place (still driving safely and alertly, somehow) and I don't remember how I got there. It's on my journey home or to work, but I'll just be like, "Wow. I don't remember travelling from Point A to Point B... I better pay attention!" Is that a possible trance? But I am daydreaming, thinking of what I want, I don't think other things have interjected into my daydreams.

 

Edited because one sentence didn't read right.

Edited by NamedForTheMoon
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Yes, as I understand it - that is considered light to moderate trance. Please anyone correct me if I'm mis wording this. Light trance is being "zoned out" in a very relaxed state, but still aware of your surroundings enough that you know what is going on. This can occur while doing any mundane task like driving or washing dishes or anything that you can do while on mental "auto pilot". I believe a deep trance would be considered where you are neither aware of your surroundings or your own body. You no longer are shuffling or scratching your nose or aware of what is going on around you. Trance is CONDUCIVE to spirit communication but one thing can occur without the other.

(What Kalinia said:))

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Awesome topic. I read it from the beginning and I would agree with the most of the advice given.

Just to add my opinion on starting communication with spirits. I would keep it simple and as " safe" as possible: go to the crossroads, give an offering and observe what's going on around you, trying to bring yourself in an " altered state of consciousness" which simply menas a light trance. And if you can't than just stand there and observe lol I mean, you are a witch, you lready have some natural abilities and extraordinary gifts; spirits will show up and you will notice something. That's what I would do just to begin with it.

You learn as you go, by succeses and mistakes.

I am further down the road. Made some afwul mistakes, but also had some amazingly beatiful experiences.

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That is exactly what a trance is. I actually always give that as an example to people who ask me about trance.

 

You can still be aware while in a deep trance. Everyone experiences it differently. Trance is a shift of consciousness from one state of mind to another. ( I am a prodessional hypnotist and work with a lot of clients)

 

It's natural for us to achieve that state while zoning out and doing things. It's much harder to get there willingly lol!

 

If you want to experience trance then my best advice is to practice. Listen to guided hypnosis, establish a routine, open yourself to the possibility that you can and will experience trance no matter how "aware" you feel.

 

 

I have absolutely no experience with spirit work but If I were going to use trance as a tool to do so, I'd want to make sure I knew almost exactly how my mind and body responded to it first on a day to say basis. Prepare and know your body and mind and how they work. Learn techniques to shield and be as safe as possible.

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Awesome topic. I read it from the beginning and I would agree with the most of the advice given.

Just to add my opinion on starting communication with spirits. I would keep it simple and as " safe" as possible: go to the crossroads, give an offering and observe what's going on around you, trying to bring yourself in an " altered state of consciousness" which simply menas a light trance. And if you can't than just stand there and observe lol I mean, you are a witch, you lready have some natural abilities and extraordinary gifts; spirits will show up and you will notice something. That's what I would do just to begin with it.

You learn as you go, by succeses and mistakes.

I am further down the road. Made some afwul mistakes, but also had some amazingly beatiful experiences.

 

I've read this before, about going to a crossroads. I don't understand what that means. I assume it's some sort of place where living meets dead? Like a graveyard? Or is it something else?

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That is exactly what a trance is. I actually always give that as an example to people who ask me about trance.

 

You can still be aware while in a deep trance. Everyone experiences it differently. Trance is a shift of consciousness from one state of mind to another. ( I am a prodessional hypnotist and work with a lot of clients)

 

It's natural for us to achieve that state while zoning out and doing things. It's much harder to get there willingly lol!

 

If you want to experience trance then my best advice is to practice. Listen to guided hypnosis, establish a routine, open yourself to the possibility that you can and will experience trance no matter how "aware" you feel.

 

 

I have absolutely no experience with spirit work but If I were going to use trance as a tool to do so, I'd want to make sure I knew almost exactly how my mind and body responded to it first on a day to say basis. Prepare and know your body and mind and how they work. Learn techniques to shield and be as safe as possible.

 

 

Thank you, Kalinia. I plan on learning some shielding techniques and practicing them before I do anything that could get me into newbie trouble. I have young children and I'm pregnant with another, and I don't want to invite anything in that could cause harm to my family or home. I will try doing some lighter things though, like meditating. I don't usually meditate, I'm still getting the hang of it, so I figure that's a good place to start.

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@ Namedforthemoon-

Crossroads:

You may be familiar with the term liminal space? If not, this is an important concept that can't be fully described in a post- you may want to research. But very basically:

A liminal space is a threshold. The beach is a liminal space, dividing the sea and land. Midnight is a liminal "space", dividing days. A doorway is a liminal space, dividing what is on one side of the door from the other. TRANCE is a liminal space between consciousness and unconsciousness. Liminal spaces are a good way to bridge between the magical and the mundane, this world and the spirit world. In some ways it is a form of representational magic. I hope that makes sense.

A crossroads is a crossroads- literally. Where two roads intersect. For certain special instances a "Y" type/3 way crossroads is used but usually it is simply where two roads form a cross type intersection. These are very common- but finding one good for working at is a little harder. Some areas have desolate crossroads that are not frequented and are conducive to magical workings. There is much lore associated with crossroads in particular that you can read about.

But in short crossroads are a special liminal place/space that is utilized by some traditions for magical workings.

Edited by Oroboros
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