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Starting a line of communication to the unseen

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#61 Eidolon

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Posted 03 August 2015 - 01:58 AM

As for that book it is really just an encyclopedia of sorts . I haven't exactly taken any advice from it, as it was sort of more of a broad overview of what I'm getting into than a "How-to"

I'm not sure why astral really. I've had a few people recommend it and it seems like the right move. However I am taking my sweet ass time with that. Not really in a rush, as I don't want to get overwhelmed.
A guardian spirit sounds like a good bet too though. Is there any type of spirit that would be especially good for that?

Thank you for the advice as always Aurelian.

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#62 Nikki

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Posted 18 October 2015 - 07:22 PM

There are so many ideas I'd like to explore here, so this will be a long post.

The insights put forth are based upon my personal experiences having been born a certain way. I don't read books and have yet to 'study' (as I'd prefer to become student of a necromancer whose talent, experience and insight surpasses my own.) I have strong opinions that I will try to hold back, so if anything offends, I apologize in advance. Language leaves much to be desired when it comes to the business of that which is largely unspoken.
The Power of Scent:

Many times one can smell the presences of a beloved family member who has crossed. Scent is one of the many ways spirits comminucate with us. More often than not, scent is calming, comforting, and unobtrusive. It's a very sublte way of saying Hello.

Scent triggers memories that transport us back in time, literally. All those feelings associated with memory come rushing back. This type of energy is very powerful stuff. It's viseral, primal, ancient. It creates its own signature, if you will.

In this line of thinking, using scent to communicate first and/or communicate back makes sense...lol.

In my experience, if a spirit liked a certain perfume, cologne, food, drink, flower while alive, this can be a very inticing to them. You are tapping into the specific memories of thier lives that gave them great (olfactory) pleasure. Through this, they can enjoy thier 'life' again. It's a way of drawing them near.

Open up his/hers favorite cologne. Have at it. Don't be stingy.

Taking this idea one step further, using a scent of shared memory is also an option to open up and enhance communication.

Say your grandfather used to take you the circus each summer and bought you heaping globs cottoncandy, you could use cottoncandy to envoke all those memories of the happy times you both shared. Imagine both of you experiencing these shared memories at the same time, in real time, as you lay cottoncandy on your alter - this creates an energy -- again, it's very powerful stuff.

Also, stronger the scent, the more effective it seems to be. It's no accident that tabacco and whisky are so widely used. But, imo, if your loved one didn't drink or smoke, it's a moot point. Luckily, there are so many other strong scents to choose from. So, if my departed (who is really still here -- these terms are annoying) loved eating sunflower seeds, potato chips and sardines, as sucky as sardines are -- it's probably better choice. After all, this is about them, not us.

A note about water: In my experience, water has a draining effect. No pun intended. Unless you want spirit steer clear, I would not use water to entice.

The better you know her/him the easier it is to use scent as means of communication.

Be prepared to be answered back by spirit with a scent that no one else in the room can smell, (take a swamp or burning leaves for expample) that envokes a memory -- explore it. You can have an entire relationship based on scent alone by swapping out memories and experiences that hold wisdom and knoweldge, even warnings. You may be made aware of some very interesting, shocking, or sad facts.

I'd like to add, imho, to bear in mind several things:
Not all spirits want to talk or be seen.
Spirits who care for you don't want to frighten or startle you (by showing themselves, touching you, manipulating eletronics, etc...)
Not all spirits want to be involved with you, this includes ancestors.
Some really want to be left alone.
Some are shy.
Some aren't ready.
Some are needy.
Some are controlling.
Some absolutely resent being called upon like a trained animal.
Some want to be free and your calling on them is pulling them back to place they no longer wish to be. *This is especailly true if someone is in the process of transitioning, or recently has. The loving thing to do, imo, is the let them go with all the love and compassion you can muster, dispite your own feelings of loss / selfish reasons.
New spirits often need time to adjust. They have themseves to worry about. You can help them by respecting this and just letting them go. Allow them to do what THEY need to do.
You can offer them an invitation to return to you, as THEY see fit. Accept the possibility they may decline. It's their right.
All choices made by spirit are respectable. My best advice to the new practioner is simple: Demand nothing. Honor everything.

So if the new necromancer isn't 'seeing' spirt, there's probably good reasons for this. It's not a failing by any means. It doesn't make you any less able or effective.

There are a myriad of ways we can better ourselves at receiving messages from 'beyond'.

Being more aware, becoming more senstive to those possibilities is part of the never-ending learning process. I think anyone can connect with 'otherside' if they so desire, but it's not like what you see on TV, and it's not always pleasant. (Not everyone ought to either.)

Even the most experienced necromancers get thier asses kicked from time to time.

Dabblers are at trememdous risk of experiencing long-term, serious affects and effects.

UNSEEN is always a favor, a grace - that once taken away cannot be taken back.

So, again, beware what one strives for. Choose carefully.

This work is not for the faint of heart.

Being able to connect with the 'otherside' does not make one a greater /lesser witch. This is a specific path and it's wise to treat is a such. You are only one breath away from death yourself. Remember this. Ego has no place here. If anything, ego will cause some unpleasant results.

Also, it's important for practioners to know the difference between ancestor veneration and working with ancestors. Some seem to wrongly confuse the two.

Also, calling to spirit, who answers the call is a crapshoot. This is other thing that happens more often than not -- being prepared BEFORE hand is invaluable to the new practioner.
Learn some banishing methodolgy first. Practice them until you are fluid. Have certain items on hand, keep them easily accessible. Yes, this shit always happens when you aren't expecting it. This helps to elevate the confusion and fear. More about fear below.


Guardian Spirits: In my experience, you have them already. You've had them all along.

This is not to say you cannot attract more to you, but connecting with those who are already present seems a logical, safer way to start.

A simple exercise is to think back on all those times something 'told' you, intervened on your behalf, saved your butt. Try to reconnect with the those pivital moments. Write them down. Really stay with those instances. Explore them extensively. There should be a vibration ( for lack of a better word) to all of them. Some pivital moments will be/feel like others and a pattern could emerge. Other moments will stand alone. That's OK. Age can play a part, too. Some vibrations will be consistent for a time, then stop. YMWV.

As always, it's important acknowledge the wisdom and care your guides provide. Thank them.

You could respectfully request that they come now forth in a way that YOU are now able to understand their presence.

Imo, if you do this, keep your antenne up. Don't ignore the whisperings or pick and choose when you tap into that frequency. It's only respectful to stay committed to getting to know them. One would not invite guests to dinner and then slam the door in the faces when they arrive. This is very much the same idea.

After a while, their individually will begin show and you should be able to discern who's who. Some may be very fierce, or 'hideous' in form, so be prepared to be brave and accepting. Easier said than done, but there ought to be a commitment to react honorably. How would you feel if someone recoiled at the sight/sound/smell of you? Especially after you've been of great service to them. This is one way to lose guides or have them turn against you.

There's a certain FEARLESSNESS that is fundamental to this practice.

This is not to say that feeling 'afraid' isn't par- for- the-course, but the vibration of fear is both a destructive and creative force.

The person who feels fear, who is fearfull, or gives into fear is in the submissive role and is in a potentially dangerous position. At very least, it's the least desirable place to be. This is why many people shy away from this practice (very smart, BTW) or they begin the practice and quickly abandon the pursuit because it gets too much, too quickly. Please know that this can have long lasting affects and effects on those who send out these invitations. I've seen many ignore the 'warnings' and experience some pretty 'interesting' (another word for distrubing) results. Dabblers learn the hard way.

Fear creates another breed of enitity that isn't so easily addressed.

Also, learn about spirit attachment and possession. Always protect yourself. But even protection can be tricky. Silly as this sounds, be sure not to trap anything less-than-desirable within your shield. Don't laugh, it happens.

Edited to add: Spirit is all around us, all the time.

Edited by Nikki, 20 October 2015 - 01:11 AM.

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The difference between Medicine and Poison is the Dose. :oil-bottle:
I Love you as certain Dark Things are to be Loved,
In Secret, Between the Shadow and the Soul.
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#63 Autumn Moon

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Posted 19 October 2015 - 01:38 PM

Nice post. I agree with most of it, except for guardian spirits, and water. I question that everyone has a guardian spirit...I mean look at those who are tortured, murdered by some psycho, child molestation...and the list goes on and on, no guardian spirit there for them. About water, I have always understood it to be a conduit for spirit, not a blockage, and most ancestral and other altars have a bowl of water on them. My understanding is not to have salt on the altar.
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#64 Nikki

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Posted 19 October 2015 - 11:56 PM

Thanks AM. I appreciate that.

I realize that water is frequently used with ancestor veneration, which, most of us know, is different than spirit communication.

I needs me no altars to commune with the "unseen"...(says one of my attending spirits in a very amusing voice) but I needs me a bath after fucking Miss Racine. ( yeah, welcome to my world)

Here's a simple question: Which would you rather have: An invite containing your most favorite, fragrant foods or a bowl of water? I'm working with human spirits over here, not goldfish and guppies.... Lol

Even when salt is present (sardines, for example) the strength of the aroma and the pleasant memories evoked by the scent is the influential incentive to drawing spirit near, iif one cannot do so otherwise.

I can only speak to my personal experience but water (time and time again) slows sprit down.... Or worse, pushes away... Repels.

If I were budding necromancer whose attempts to make contact yields disappointing a result, I'd simply experiment by removing water and substitute a more spirit personalized and aromatic substance in its place. One has little to lose. YMWV.



Hmmmmm... Are you saying that anyone who meets with tragedy is void of a guardian? Interesting.

What is your idea of a guardian? Is it an entity one must conjure and maintain to have? Do you liken it to a "fetch"? Do you think that guardians are earned ? If so, who are the lucky few ? How do guardians choose their ward? Just wondering... I know there are other threads dedicated to guides alone... Would be happy to continue this discussion of there, if you're so inclined.

Edited by Nikki, 20 October 2015 - 01:15 AM.

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The difference between Medicine and Poison is the Dose. :oil-bottle:
I Love you as certain Dark Things are to be Loved,
In Secret, Between the Shadow and the Soul.
- Pablo Neruda


#65 Aurelian

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Posted 20 October 2015 - 04:58 AM

I cant't recall which thread this was mentioned in, but I have a round used in the Civil War, and I don't consider it haunted. Apparently it killed someone, and I can contact that spirit but he's not at all bitter or nasty. Lovely piece of necro equipment.
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"The truth about the world, he said, is that anything is possible. Had you not seen it from birth and thereby bled it of its strangeness it would appear to you for what it is, a hat trick in a medicine show, a fevered dream, a trance bepopulate with chimeras having neither analogue nor precedent, an itinerant carnival, a migratory tentshow whose ultimate destination after many a pitch in many a mudded field is unspeakable and calamitous beyond reckoning."  - Cormac McCarthy


#66 Autumn Moon

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Posted 20 October 2015 - 12:10 PM

Thanks AM. I appreciate that.

I realize that water is frequently used with ancestor veneration, which, most of us know, is different than spirit communication.

I needs me no altars to commune with the "unseen"...(says one of my attending spirits in a very amusing voice) but I needs me a bath after fucking Miss Racine. ( yeah, welcome to my world)

Here's a simple question: Which would you rather have: An invite containing your most favorite, fragrant foods or a bowl of water? I'm working with human spirits over here, not goldfish and guppies.... Lol

Even when salt is present (sardines, for example) the strength of the aroma and the pleasant memories evoked by the scent is the influential incentive to drawing spirit near, iif one cannot do so otherwise.

I can only speak to my personal experience but water (time and time again) slows sprit down.... Or worse, pushes away... Repels.

If I were budding necromancer whose attempts to make contact yields disappointing a result, I'd simply experiment by removing water and substitute a more spirit personalized and aromatic substance in its place. One has little to lose. YMWV.



Hmmmmm... Are you saying that anyone who meets with tragedy is void of a guardian? Interesting.

What is your idea of a guardian? Is it an entity one must conjure and maintain to have? Do you liken it to a "fetch"? Do you think that guardians are earned ? If so, who are the lucky few ? How do guardians choose their ward? Just wondering... I know there are other threads dedicated to guides alone... Would be happy to continue this discussion of there, if you're so inclined.

____________
As you say, water is used in ancestor veneration, but I am referring to Spirit invites, ancestor or not...just Spirit invite, and I don't think water is a hindrance to that. The water thing reminds me of the old superstition that vampires can't cross running water. But, hey, each to their own experiences. I have found that two candles side by side and lighted form a great doorway for communication. Most are of the opinion that water is highly attractive to Spirits. I believe Spirits will communicate, water or no, fragrance or no, if they want to, and in many, but not all cases if you want the communication, but then there are those that just have to bug you, lol. Regarding fragrance though, would you not have had to know the person in life for you to know what fragrance they like, which kind of goes back to ancestors, and or friends. What about Spirits you did not know in life...how would you know what fragrance they like? What if you choose one they hate, then that would drive them away. However, offering something they like (hopefully), or having something of theirs, I think is a good link to open up communication with them.

You mentioned Spirit guardians, guides, so it opened up the conversation to that. My comment was an observation, and from that, my belief that not all people have them, and yes I think it may only be a chosen few...not talking about a fetch. How is a person selected, I don't know. Guardian, to me, is one who guards and protects you, to use your words, all those times something 'told' you, intervened on your behalf, saved your butt

Edited by Autumn Moon, 20 October 2015 - 12:46 PM.

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#67 RoseRed

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Posted 20 October 2015 - 12:50 PM

I always thought the glass of water was a Hoodoo thing. That's pretty much the only context I've seen it used in. You guys know I don't do Hoodoo.

I tried the glass of water - it went over like a lead balloon. I've had salt on it and it really didn't seem to interrupt much but it's happier without it. My male ancestors love whiskey. The women have a thing for coffee and they all have a thing for gum drops and sweets. Go figure.

I've been streamlining. Creating small ritual and ceremony thoughout my daily life. It's quite fulfilling.

I just had to repot my bamboo. I put one on the ancestral shrine/alter. It's in a tall clear glass cylinder type vase with different layers of stones and pretties. It's a tall glass of water with a beautiful life that thrives in shadow. It seems quite happy in it's new home.

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#68 RoseRed

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Posted 20 October 2015 - 12:51 PM

I cant't recall which thread this was mentioned in, but I have a round used in the Civil War, and I don't consider it haunted. Apparently it killed someone, and I can contact that spirit but he's not at all bitter or nasty. Lovely piece of necro equipment.


do you have the actual lead ball or the casing?

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#69 Autumn Moon

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Posted 20 October 2015 - 01:28 PM

I don't think it is just a Hoodoo custom. One can find it in the old ways, such as wells, underground springs, etc. where it was believed that spirits were. Christians use water a lot...perhaps that is where Hoodoo got it from. Isn't whisky a Hoodoo custom, or is it Voodoo, maybe both?

How do you find the bamboo, since it is in water...at least all the ones I have seen, affects your communication with Spirit, since you tried water which did not go over well?

Edited by Autumn Moon, 20 October 2015 - 01:34 PM.

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#70 RoseRed

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Posted 20 October 2015 - 03:54 PM

But wells and springs are Living Water. It's very different than what comes out of the tap.

This has more to do with my current understanding of the different realms, tree of life, upper/physical/under world, etc. The idea of growing roots and aerial beauty from muck and mire. What could drown is life sustaining.

And it's it's own perpetual energy source.

Distilled spirits is a Russian thing, too. My Godfather preferred whiskey to vodka so I keep a bottle in the cabinet for him. My matriarchal recent ancestors were very into plants so it's fitting for a personalized shrine/alter. I haven't really come across much pertaining to living items on shrines or alters for the Dead. Have any of you guys?

I put up pics on my craft fb page if you'd like to see it. RoseRed Damask.

I'm hoping it does well in it's new location. It's a little brighter than where it was.

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#71 Autumn Moon

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Posted 20 October 2015 - 04:42 PM

Eh, all water is living imo (well, most any way), water flows through pipes, reservoirs, etc. Plants do fine with it :smile:

Re: you bamboo, not sure if you are aware of this, but they do not do well in direct or bright sunlight...the leaves will start to dry out a lot.

Yes, I've heard of and seen plants on ancestor/spirit altars. It's a nice touch. Yours looks really nice. Good luck with it!

Edited by Autumn Moon, 20 October 2015 - 04:44 PM.

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#72 Aurelian

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Posted 20 October 2015 - 05:05 PM

do you have the actual lead ball or the casing?


I have the (very deformed) lead ball. I'll post a pic when I find my misplaced camera, if you like. I know some people can read such things.

As for water, it isn't just used in hoodoo. Look up something called a boveda. It's used in multiple traditions. Usually one large glass for 'spirit' or 'the creator' and one glass for each ancestor.

Also, in Vodou, ancestral altars are placed on the ground, as the spirits are believed to travel through the ground water. It's also traditional in the craft to call spirits at rivers and such...remember all those sacrifices done to placate the nature spirits?

Also, to feed spirits, whiskey or rum or tequila or whatever is culturally relevant are an excellent offering, and tobacco, even if they didn't smoke. Just not too much liquor, not more than a few tablespoons, or at most a shot glass...they can act up, just like we embodied folk!

Edited by Aurelian, 20 October 2015 - 05:07 PM.

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"The truth about the world, he said, is that anything is possible. Had you not seen it from birth and thereby bled it of its strangeness it would appear to you for what it is, a hat trick in a medicine show, a fevered dream, a trance bepopulate with chimeras having neither analogue nor precedent, an itinerant carnival, a migratory tentshow whose ultimate destination after many a pitch in many a mudded field is unspeakable and calamitous beyond reckoning."  - Cormac McCarthy


#73 RoseRed

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Posted 20 October 2015 - 11:38 PM

And my post didn't take. ugh

I usually put out a rocks glass with ice LOL Haven't had a problem with it yet.

Perhaps, I'm over feeding? Is that possible?

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#74 Nikki

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Posted 21 October 2015 - 12:36 AM

[quote name="Autumn Moon" post="175668" timestamp="1445343004"]

____________
As you say, water is used in ancestor veneration, but I am referring to Spirit invites, ancestor or not...just Spirit invite, and I don't think water is a hindrance to that. The water thing reminds me of the old superstition that vampires can't cross running water[/quote].
Never heard of that.

But, hey, each to their own experiences. Yup. I've learned so much from others this way.

I have found that two candles side by side and lighted form a great doorway for communication. Great suggestion for the OP.

Most are of the opinion that water is highly attractive to Spirits. I had a very wise professor who once said, "If 10 minds agree - 9 are unnecessary."

This is not to say that using water to attract spirit isn't widely used or accepted or viable practice. I KNOW this...lol. But there's no proof that using water is 100% effective either. Offering another perspective based on hands-on experience, even if it's not 'the norm', doesn't decrease its value. This is very simple, really. If someone isn't getting a result, or the result they hoped for, it's always nice to have an alternative. Water is also often used to 'rid' oneself of various energies -- so, I think it's a fascinating area to explore.


I believe Spirits will communicate, water or no, fragrance or no, if they want to, and in many, but not all cases if you want the communication, but then there are those that just have to bug you, lol. Tell me about it...lmao.

Regarding fragrance though, would you not have had to know the person in life for you to know what fragrance they like, which kind of goes back to ancestors, and or friends. Yeah, I think the OP made a specific reference to communicating with his/her grandfather.

What about Spirits you did not know in life...how would you know what fragrance they like? Good question. How would you know?

What if you choose one they hate, then that would drive them away. Personally, I would not use fragrance in all cases. But, using a scent that is hated definitely has its applications.

However, offering something they like (hopefully), or having something of theirs, I think is a good link to open up communication with them. It really is. I think scent is an area that's often overlooked, that's why I mentioned it.

( I see offerings and invitation as two separate functions with different purposes, but that's me)

You mentioned Spirit guardians, guides, so it opened up the conversation to that. Actually, I didn't - the OP mentioned guardians. I thought I'd be nice and offer an exercise to explore.



My comment was an observation, and from that, my belief that not all people have them, and yes I think it may only be a chosen few...not talking about a fetch. How is a person selected, I don't know. Guardian, to me, is one who guards and protects you, to use your words, all those times something 'told' you, intervened on your behalf, saved your butt

I'm so glad you brought this up.

This is what I love so much about craft and the ideas put forth here.


Certainly, so much of the inner workings of the spirit realm is unknown to those who've yet to cross. I'd venture to guess, or assert, that every human being can find at least one instance that is a logic-defying WHOA moment in their lives. Whether or not this is the result of a guardian, who knows? For the OP or any person new to this practice, going back to those times may be indispensable moving forward. Even if it's to tap into the power of their own instincts and mentally connect to how those instincts manifest. Ultimately, we are our own guardians.

It would be interesting to explore what others think guardians are.

Edited by Nikki, 22 October 2015 - 07:49 PM.

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The difference between Medicine and Poison is the Dose. :oil-bottle:
I Love you as certain Dark Things are to be Loved,
In Secret, Between the Shadow and the Soul.
- Pablo Neruda


#75 Nikki

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Posted 22 October 2015 - 07:45 PM

I cant't recall which thread this was mentioned in, but I have a round used in the Civil War, and I don't consider it haunted. Apparently it killed someone, and I can contact that spirit but he's not at all bitter or nasty. Lovely piece of necro equipment.



It's amazing how many THINGS can be used to connect. This is a fantastic example that a violent death doesn't necessitate haunting or restlessness.

Edited by Nikki, 22 October 2015 - 07:45 PM.

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The difference between Medicine and Poison is the Dose. :oil-bottle:
I Love you as certain Dark Things are to be Loved,
In Secret, Between the Shadow and the Soul.
- Pablo Neruda


#76 Perchtin

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Posted 23 October 2015 - 06:21 PM

Awesome post, Nikki! I've thought in passing about adding scent to my works before, but now I feel I should really try it. My grandma loved perfume, after all.
That's a thumbs up from me :party9:

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#77 Fier

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Posted 23 October 2015 - 06:46 PM

Regarding whether or not water repels or attracts spirits - do you (any of you) think the state of the water effects its attractiveness? Like whether it is moving vs. stagnant?
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#78 Autumn Moon

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Posted 23 October 2015 - 07:08 PM

[quote name="Nikki" post="175679" timestamp="1445387809"]

[quote name="Autumn Moon" post="175668" timestamp="1445343004"]

____________
As you say, water is used in ancestor veneration, but I am referring to Spirit invites, ancestor or not...just Spirit invite, and I don't think water is a hindrance to that. The water thing reminds me of the old superstition that vampires can't cross running water
[/quote]. Never heard of that.

But, hey, each to their own experiences. Yup. I've learned so much from others this way.

I have found that two candles side by side and lighted form a great doorway for communication. Great suggestion for the OP.

Most are of the opinion that water is highly attractive to Spirits. I had a very wise professor who once said, "If 10 minds agree - 9 are unnecessary."

This is not to say that using water to attract spirit isn't widely used or accepted or viable practice. I KNOW this...lol. But there's no proof that using water is 100% effective either. Offering another perspective based on hands-on experience, even if it's not 'the norm', doesn't decrease its value. This is very simple, really. If someone isn't getting a result, or the result they hoped for, it's always nice to have an alternative. Water is also often used to 'rid' oneself of various energies -- so, I think it's a fascinating area to explore.


I believe Spirits will communicate, water or no, fragrance or no, if they want to, and in many, but not all cases if you want the communication, but then there are those that just have to bug you, lol. Tell me about it...lmao.

Regarding fragrance though, would you not have had to know the person in life for you to know what fragrance they like, which kind of goes back to ancestors, and or friends. Yeah, I think the OP made a specific reference to communicating with his/her grandfather.

What about Spirits you did not know in life...how would you know what fragrance they like? Good question. How would you know?

What if you choose one they hate, then that would drive them away. Personally, I would not use fragrance in all cases. But, using a scent that is hated definitely has its applications.

However, offering something they like (hopefully), or having something of theirs, I think is a good link to open up communication with them. It really is. I think scent is an area that's often overlooked, that's why I mentioned it.

( I see offerings and invitation as two separate functions with different purposes, but that's me)

You mentioned Spirit guardians, guides, so it opened up the conversation to that. Actually, I didn't - the OP mentioned guardians. I thought I'd be nice and offer an exercise to explore.



My comment was an observation, and from that, my belief that not all people have them, and yes I think it may only be a chosen few...not talking about a fetch. How is a person selected, I don't know. Guardian, to me, is one who guards and protects you, to use your words, all those times something 'told' you, intervened on your behalf, saved your butt

I'm so glad you brought this up.

This is what I love so much about craft and the ideas put forth here.


Certainly, so much of the inner workings of the spirit realm is unknown to those who've yet to cross. I'd venture to guess, or assert, that every human being can find at least one instance that is a logic-defying WHOA moment in their lives. Whether or not this is the result of a guardian, who knows? For the OP or any person new to this practice, going back to those times may be indispensable moving forward. Even if it's to tap into the power of their own instincts and mentally connect to how those instincts manifest. Ultimately, we are our own guardians.

It would be interesting to explore what others think guardians are.
[/quote]
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"A note about water: In my experience, water has a draining effect. No pun intended. Unless you want spirit steer clear, I would not use water to entice".

I found the above to be dogmatic, all or nothing approach, so my original post was for perspective, and I did not disagree about fragrance which you seem to be so stuck on...I think it is good to keep an open mind, seriously considering the experiences of others that are different than your own, rather than viewing it as an attack on one's ideas. From what you said, it appears that I have a different experience with water and Spirit communication than you have.

I was not so much addressing the OP on the topic, but your post.

Umm...you did mention guides and guardians you know (see below, I can't be bothered with the multi-quote thing), and since we are speaking of SPIRITS, then ergo...Spirit Guide.

"As always, it's important acknowledge the wisdom and care your guides provide. Thank them.

You could respectfully request that they come now forth in a way that YOU are now able to understand their presence
".

"Guardian Spirits: In my experience, you have them already. You've had them all along".

Because 10 minds agree, does not necessarily make it fact, but until proven, it makes it theory and perspective.

When speaking of Spirit communication, there is nothing that can be proven. One takes the most common practice and sees if it works for them most of the time. Sometimes they may have to add or subtract something for a particular Spirit. It does not make it wrong or right, except for that particular Spirit.

Edited because my first post did not post right.

Edited by Autumn Moon, 23 October 2015 - 07:21 PM.

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#79 Autumn Moon

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Posted 23 October 2015 - 07:24 PM

I have the (very deformed) lead ball. I'll post a pic when I find my misplaced camera, if you like. I know some people can read such things.

As for water, it isn't just used in hoodoo. Look up something called a boveda. It's used in multiple traditions. Usually one large glass for 'spirit' or 'the creator' and one glass for each ancestor.

Also, in Vodou, ancestral altars are placed on the ground, as the spirits are believed to travel through the ground water. It's also traditional in the craft to call spirits at rivers and such...remember all those sacrifices done to placate the nature spirits?

Also, to feed spirits, whiskey or rum or tequila or whatever is culturally relevant are an excellent offering, and tobacco, even if they didn't smoke. Just not too much liquor, not more than a few tablespoons, or at most a shot glass...they can act up, just like we embodied folk!

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Thanks for the info Aurelian on water and Hoodoo, along with the info on Vodou.

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#80 RoseRed

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Posted 24 October 2015 - 02:06 PM

Totally off topic but Icouldn't make heads or tails out of the last few posts on my phone. I had to use the laptop. In case they confuse anyone else... I think it's the quote thingy and colors. I suck at electronics - what do I know lol
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When my wings get tired I grab my broom.





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