Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Nature Magic and Nature Relationships


  • Please log in to reply
33 replies to this topic

#1 Michele

Michele

    The Exiled Goddess

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 7,033 posts

Posted 07 June 2015 - 04:08 PM

Living where I do there is either a nice breeze or complete, humid, heavy, utter stillness. I have tried over time to develop a relationship with the breezes (not wind, because one of the last things I need to call in is hurricane visitations, lol). Anyway, it has got to the point that when I speak to things their reaction is often brought via breeze - nodding agreement in the branches, worried or fretful rustling of leaves, etc. I can usually sit on the back steps now and call the wind and get a slight breeze or gust (however, I do think that is specifically related to my yard).

Anyway, over the last several years my magic has got very away from using items, candles or anything, and has become more "conversational" with things of nature that I have a relationship with and asking their intervention depending on the nature of their abilities and the nature of my need. (Any old-timers on here may remember when I started having issues with where power actually comes from - the witch or the things he/she has relationships with and my weird exploratory posts re same, lol). At this point in time my magic is about 99.9% relationship-based to the point where almost everything, if not everything, is simply done via conversation with things.

So I had something that needed taking care of within my family, and I had been talking to several things in my garden about it (I always talk to them about things, good, bad, or just mundane chit-chat). And that night just prior to bed when I opened the back door for a moment to chuck out the nightly piece of bread for who/what ever might be passing by, I smiled at one of my trees and said goodnight, and again said that I was very stressed and worried over this thing, and I needed it to be taken care of tomorrow. The moment the sentence left my lips the breeze struck up, grabbing my words and, in my personal belief, powered by the witch's tree, took them off to the people who needed to be manipulated. I felt immediate relief, calm, and complete confidence that this problem was over. And sure enough, the "meeting" went entirely in my son's favor, and it's a giant boost for his and his family's well-being and safety (the opposite outcome could have meant very bad things for him financially and the loss of my gradnddaughter's wonderful Autism therapist who has moved her from unresponsive to being a normal child who is just like every other 4 year old now- I can't praise the man enough).

I'm not sure what the things I speak to get back from me... other than a nightly piece of bread lol. Perhaps it is just the friendship, that I talk to them and for whatever reason they like me. I don't know. About a year or so, when I started to really get deeper into it, I had thought I may be pushed to a decision between what most people call "witch" and having a spiritual belief/relationships. And I realized that if I had to choose between the two, I would choose relatioinship with the unseen world over the practice of magic. It was an interesting realization for me.

But anyway, how many people do magic, not via doing it themselves, but via relationship? I dislike the word "using" the spirit of something in nature as that implies me being better than, and that's not it - it's a mutual, careing relationship. Just like you don't "use" your spouse for sex, you make love with them. Is anyone else familiar with this? Relationship magic? Did you completely give up the usual way of doing magic where the witch does the action and directs the energy rather than that with which she has relationships directing it? Did you continue to use both? How did that effect the relationships? Thanks,

M

  • 0

#2 RoseRed

RoseRed

    . . . Not a big believer in . . . cowinkydink ;)

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2,460 posts

Posted 07 June 2015 - 04:38 PM

Actually, you've been a wonderful inspiration in my own practice. It's much more fulfilling.
  • 0
When my wings get tired I grab my broom.

#3 Shinichi

Shinichi

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 39 posts

Posted 07 June 2015 - 06:17 PM

The development of relationships is an essential aspect of my own Spirit Work. As the Goetia and similar traditions portray, it's easy enough to forcefully command beings to do ones bidding, but I feel that method leaves something lacking. There is magick in friendship, very strong magick indeed.

I do still work with other forms of magick besides Spirit Work, though. I've never seen any reason why one has to choose between them.



~:Shin:~

  • 0

#4 Pikkusisko

Pikkusisko

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 313 posts

Posted 07 June 2015 - 06:33 PM

I mostly do everything through spirits. In this way I sustain the spirits and they... well, there are perks. It means I need to live by a certain code of ethics; I need to ask myself 'would the spirits respect me if I acted in this way?' If not I'd do it by my own will entirely- risks included.

'You're only as good as your spirits' and I can't disagree thus far.

  • 0

'There's rules to this stuff. Wishing an event to be changes elements before and after it. Memories will be destroyed, babies will not be born, potential worlds could be evaporated by your wish.' - Prismo


#5 Mountain Witch

Mountain Witch

    Practical b/witch

  • Moderators
  • 3,825 posts

Posted 07 June 2015 - 08:25 PM

I never use anything - I always ask. Most of the time the answer is 'yes' but I have gotten the occasional 'no'. That goes for plants and spirits (although the plants have spirits, too, so ...) Seems to me working with Nature is no different than working with people.

I honestly don't know what they get out of it. The plants growing in my garden get the attention they need to continue growing. But the ones not in the garden that are considered 'weeds' by most that I don't give as much attention to? Maybe the local spirits like me because I try to be considerate of Nature and a good steward of our little plot. Maybe it's just companionship? No clue. But it doesn't matter. The relationship is there and I treat them the way I'd like to be treated.

For purposes of action nothing is more useful than narrowness of thought combined with energy of will.
~ Henri Frederic Amiel

You can access my blog and get autographed copies of my books through my website


#6 Shinichi

Shinichi

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 39 posts

Posted 07 June 2015 - 10:50 PM

I "use" several aspects of magick the same way I "use" my arm. I become a part of it, it becomes an extension of me, and it follows my mental instructions accordingly. I do this especially ith basic energy work like Life Force, but I also do it with the Runes and other things too. Spirits I treat differently because they are individual beings with their own intellect and volition, and thus deserve the respect and courtesy worthy of any human. They are people. People who can become my friend or my enemy depending on how we get along and how I behave.

As for what the spirits get out of the talking thing you guys do, that's rather simple. It gives them attention, which gives them energy, which gives them a little extra strength. Your attention and conversation is a form of offering, an immaterial offering just as good as the bread Michele throws out. It's an old school, nature based form of prayer and worship, for lack of a better term. People used to talk to the spirits like that all the time. And, of course, there is the simple friendship and respect thing. When someone takes their time to say hello and offer a compliment while you walk down the street, you may appreciate that, yes? The spirits appreciate the same courtesies, in just the same way.




~:Shin:~

Edited by Shinichi, 07 June 2015 - 10:52 PM.

  • 1

#7 Michele

Michele

    The Exiled Goddess

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 7,033 posts

Posted 08 June 2015 - 12:13 AM

We ended up discussing this a bit in chat this afternoon, and talking about it kinda brought some things into my mind and left me with an idea of what to do next... how to work these relationships into joint ventures of magic, but still in keeping with the nature of the relationships. So that was a good thing. Not sure when I will start that yet as I have a lot of things to think out about it, but it has given me a starting point with taking these relationships farther.

M

  • 0

#8 Caps

Caps

    Phytokinesist

  • Moderators
  • 1,095 posts

Posted 08 June 2015 - 01:50 AM

As someone who has found his groove through terrestrial witchcraft, I can certainly understand the sentiment of having a relationship or partnership with the nature around me. I observe and read my forest every day and can usually sense things about its wellbeing, its history, its past, and its desires for its future simply by spending time being a part of it rather than apart from it.

However, big however, I also view witchcraft as an act of spiritual manipulation of the environment and society. As the human animal we've been given the gift of being able to manipulate our environments...adapting to surviving from the the most sinister jungles to the most inhospitable glaciers and completely dessicated deserts. I have no qualms with physically or magically manipulating environments, pushing my weight around and causing my will to trump that of an environment I'm coexisting with...it happens from time to time. I might plow an entire field, taking out countless plants, worms, whatever the case is. I don't think twice about pulling weeds, felling trees, or squashing bugs (although I normally apologize as an afterthought.) I do these things because of my will and normally my spiritual relationships with the forest are not affected. I do, with extreme reverence, make a big deal out of killing animals for hunting, it is a very spiritual activity and it sickens me how I see so many people treat it more of a sport than a necessary part of life. We survived this long and have been prolific because of the deaths of countless prey, the transformation from fructivore to predator was likely not an easy cognitive step for our not-so-human ancestors.

I think the biggest concern I have is sustainability. It's not about felling square miles for timber to build 100 homes in a new subdivision in the suburbs, it has more to do with a partnership with nature and finding out more efficient ways of doing things (like using hemp press timbers, concretes, and plastics, for example.) I don't need to cover my gardens with potent insecticides, the forest provides with enough natural insect predators to take care of any pests that I have. I educate myself about the world around me and learn more sustainable ways of doing things...every day I learn something new....but you can bet that I'll cut down a tree in a heartbeat if it's in my way.

"It is the still and silent sea that drowns a man." - Old Norse proverb

"It is better to be a warrior in a garden than a gardener in a war."

#9 Michele

Michele

    The Exiled Goddess

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 7,033 posts

Posted 08 June 2015 - 11:25 AM

I like your use of the word partnership... I mean I eat animals, I eat plants, I drink water. There's a food chain and I have my place in it as does everything else. And one day my place in it will be to rot in the ground and some bugs will eat me and some tree roots or grass roots or something will feed upon the nutrients I've left in the grave. There's definitely a cycle, and as with most animals/things that live together, it is mutualistic in the long run (even if it takes a couple 100 years or so, lol).

It'snot so much that, as it is the way my working of magic has changed, or begun to change, or whatever the word is. Something has changed in my, and I'm trying to figure it out and I was wondering if anyone else had experienced this... where one thing no longer makes sense to them, but they aren't fully cognizant of the next thing yet?

M

  • 1

#10 Aria

Aria

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 253 posts

Posted 08 June 2015 - 01:44 PM

I am somehow taken a bit aback by the approach throughout this topic.

I don't see 'humans', 'nature', and 'spirits' as being three different things. They are all part of nature, and IMHO whatever power one is using, whatever technique or relationship is used to achieve it, it is natural power. The spirit of a tree and the spirit of dead person are both part of the natural world.
We are nature. Like the bugs, the roots, the flowers, the animals, the spores, the winds, the rivers, the depths of the mountains and of the oceans. We come and go to the same places, even if we build cultures and narratives of 'superiority' or 'mastery over'.

I tend to see the world of the visible and invisible as a bundle of relations which are agitated by the the placement of each of us in the web of life and death, and the different roles that we perform (or do not perform) in this messy bundle of interactions. I cannot conceive a power that is 'external' to me, even when this is accessed through relationships with beings that appear other than me: the very fact that we manage to have these relationships, successfully, means that there is common denominator, a common primeval material we are made of, that makes this exchange possible. One may not be a 'tree hugger', but that does not mean that her or his magic is not natural magic. What else would it be?

Common vernaculars or 'humans' and 'nature' mystify the fact that we exclusively exist in communion with the rest of the organic processes that take place in the web of life.

  • 2
La strega è un frutto di terra. (M.)

#11 travsha

travsha

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 428 posts

Posted 08 June 2015 - 03:10 PM

Most of my magic is based on relationships - especially with nature spirits. I often talk to them, give offerings, or sing to them depending on the situation....

I do a lot of healing type work with clients, and it is really helpful ding things this way though relationships - makes it much easier to not pick up their baggage yourself.... Almost like a form of protection in some ways.... Even when I am doing the work myself, usually I have a spirit working through me in cases like that, so I still am not really the one doing it!

  • 0

#12 Caps

Caps

    Phytokinesist

  • Moderators
  • 1,095 posts

Posted 08 June 2015 - 03:35 PM

Aria: I realize my approach might be what you're talking about, but I do see human activity as different from the chaos of the natural world...but I also view everything that we do to be natural, including strip mining, splitting atoms, and factory farming because it is in our nature. Not that I support much of those things, but I recognize that as apex tool wielding predators we can certainly exert superiority over most otherorganisms. Whether we SHOULD is a question that eludes much of the western world.
"It is the still and silent sea that drowns a man." - Old Norse proverb

"It is better to be a warrior in a garden than a gardener in a war."

#13 Michele

Michele

    The Exiled Goddess

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 7,033 posts

Posted 08 June 2015 - 10:21 PM

I am somehow taken a bit aback by the approach throughout this topic.

I don't see 'humans', 'nature', and 'spirits' as being three different things. They are all part of nature, and IMHO whatever power one is using, whatever technique or relationship is used to achieve it, it is natural power. The spirit of a tree and the spirit of dead person are both part of the natural world.
We are nature. Like the bugs, the roots, the flowers, the animals, the spores, the winds, the rivers, the depths of the mountains and of the oceans. We come and go to the same places, even if we build cultures and narratives of 'superiority' or 'mastery over'...


Sometimes it is easier to say "nature spirits" and people know the reference is to to plant/animal/element, etc., whereas if I just say "spirits" people often assume it's ancestral or working with the dead or something. So it's just an easier way of wording things. Yes humans are a part of nature, but I think most humans very much live with different understandings of the world than "nature" does...

M

M

  • 0

#14 Michele

Michele

    The Exiled Goddess

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 7,033 posts

Posted 08 June 2015 - 10:22 PM

Most of my magic is based on relationships - especially with nature spirits. I often talk to them, give offerings, or sing to them depending on the situation....

I do a lot of healing type work with clients, and it is really helpful ding things this way though relationships - makes it much easier to not pick up their baggage yourself.... Almost like a form of protection in some ways.... Even when I am doing the work myself, usually I have a spirit working through me in cases like that, so I still am not really the one doing it!


Yes- I had wondered if there was an element of a more shamanistic way of working to it...

M

  • 0

#15 RoseRed

RoseRed

    . . . Not a big believer in . . . cowinkydink ;)

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2,460 posts

Posted 08 June 2015 - 11:38 PM

He studies with the Shamans in Peru in the jungle. Travis has one of those special Gifts when it come to working with the plant spirits. To see him talk about is amazing. (Will you share some?)
  • 0
When my wings get tired I grab my broom.

#16 Pikkusisko

Pikkusisko

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 313 posts

Posted 09 June 2015 - 08:22 AM

I'd hestitate to say that all spirits are a part of 'nature' (I think we might have different definitions of 'spirit' though). Although our worlds overlap, there are some which are not born on this plain and who are far from 'natural' except for perhaps the form they've taken. But when it comes to nature spirits and ancestral spirits I have definitely witnessed a co-dependency. In my experience, I've found that the places in which remembrance for the ancestors has continued the land spirits thrive. By contrast I've entered areas where some violence has been committed against these places of remembrance and the land spirits have left yet to return. Considering many land spirits were once human, it makes sense such nature spirits would rely on a healthy human/ancestor relationship. I think animal/plant spirits live by their own rules, but it's all interconnected.

Edit: Bad grammar. :razz:

Edited by Pikkusisko, 09 June 2015 - 08:32 AM.

  • 2

'There's rules to this stuff. Wishing an event to be changes elements before and after it. Memories will be destroyed, babies will not be born, potential worlds could be evaporated by your wish.' - Prismo


#17 Aria

Aria

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 253 posts

Posted 09 June 2015 - 10:17 AM

I'd hestitate to say that all spirits are a part of 'nature' (I think we might have different definitions of 'spirit' though). Although our worlds overlap, there are some which are not born on this plain and who are far from 'natural' except for perhaps the form they've taken.


I think 'nature', and 'natural processes' exist and reflect on multiple planes, even if the experience we have of them covers different ways of perceiving.

Aria: I realize my approach might be what you're talking about, but I do see human activity as different from the chaos of the natural world...but I also view everything that we do to be natural, including strip mining, splitting atoms, and factory farming because it is in our nature. Not that I support much of those things, but I recognize that as apex tool wielding predators we can certainly exert superiority over most otherorganisms. Whether we SHOULD is a question that eludes much of the western world.


I think that most of the activities that you refer to, like industrial agriculture or atomic fixation, come exactly from the widespread idea that we are separated from nature and that we can act 'on it'. While in fact we can only act 'through it'. That we exert superiority over most species... I don't know. But we are not even the most evolutionarily successful, if you think of bugs, micro-organisms and arachnids.

I find that one of the most interesting way to go across this are the most recent debates on the definition of what constitutes 'soil'. It turns out, you cannot really define different types of soil, and their formation, separately from the living beings that participate in their formation, humans included. This seems like a small thing, but if you work on issues of soil changes and degradation from a socio-ecological perspective (as I do), it changes everything. Sorry if this was a bit OT.

Aria

Edited by Aria, 09 June 2015 - 10:18 AM.

  • 0
La strega è un frutto di terra. (M.)

#18 Michele

Michele

    The Exiled Goddess

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 7,033 posts

Posted 09 June 2015 - 11:14 AM

I'd hestitate to say that all spirits are a part of 'nature' (I think we might have different definitions of 'spirit' though). Although our worlds overlap, there are some which are not born on this plain and who are far from 'natural' except for perhaps the form they've taken. But when it comes to nature spirits and ancestral spirits I have definitely witnessed a co-dependency. In my experience, I've found that the places in which remembrance for the ancestors has continued the land spirits thrive. By contrast I've entered areas where some violence has been committed against these places of remembrance and the land spirits have left yet to return. Considering many land spirits were once human, it makes sense such nature spirits would rely on a healthy human/ancestor relationship. I think animal/plant spirits live by their own rules, but it's all interconnected.

Edit: Bad grammar. :razz:


I really like the way you put that...it struck a cord :-D

M

  • 0

#19 Guest_monsnoleedra_*

Guest_monsnoleedra_*
  • Guests

Posted 09 June 2015 - 01:01 PM

I think for me its a symbiotic relationship. There are things I can do to affect / effect the environment which benefits the landscape and in turn benefits me and my ability to ask of the land.

It's like I have a peach tree in my backyard that was all ragged and broken up when we purchased the house. Yet we went through cutting away many sucker shoots, cutting out dead branches and such and now it looks healthier and fuller. Yet that aside it's done one other thing, it's become an attraction to our grandchildren but especially our grand-daughter. Ask her why she runs to it when she's upset or hurt and she can't tell you why only that it's the first place she runs to.

In many ways I truly believe we forget that our primordial rhyme is connected to the heartbeat of the landscape and when we allow it via meditation, journey, etc we enter through that gateway. Yes we are higher thinking animals so many times I believe we tend to see ourselves removed and above things but that primordial pull is ever present and ever effecting / affecting us on every level of our being. In many ways I think it's the glue that allows us to see, hear, smell and become one with the various realities that exist side by side with us and influence us as we influence them.

I personally tend to think we forget we are part of the bee hive, ant mound, deer herd, turkey flock, etc which is why under the right conditions we can approach real close to them. If not approach then sit in wonder as we watch the ant struggle with it's oversized load or try to move across the landscape pretty much unobserved. Yet I also think it's why we see the man or woman in the mists or fog and think we are being observed. Why we see the shadow and shapes that move about us and seem to call or attract our attention only to "vanish" when we turn our eyes to observe it. Yet shift our focus but the littlest and we can see them as they go about their business or the boundaries become translucent and we peek into their world.

Sorry I know makes no sense and the words are not coming out as I desire at the moment.

  • 0

#20 travsha

travsha

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 428 posts

Posted 09 June 2015 - 02:55 PM

He studies with the Shamans in Peru in the jungle. Travis has one of those special Gifts when it come to working with the plant spirits. To see him talk about is amazing. (Will you share some?)

------

I dont know what to share.... There is a lot. Maybe I can mention a few methods of how I originally get to know different plants though...

Some plants take the initiative themselves - they just start talking.... I remember I sat under a brugmansia in Peru (type of tree datura) and just sitting by it would give me visions and it would talk to me a bunch... Most plants dont reach out so strongly to me, but this one is very powerful and I think there is a personal connection there that I am still exploring.... Nice that it connects with me so easily though, because usually if I want to connect with a plant I eat some of it - and this plant is dangerous! Could kill me if I did it wrong, so it is nice moving slowly with this plant....

Other plants are psychoactive - a bit easier connecting to these ones in some ways.... The harder part is learning how to function when you work with them, and learning how to embrace and sometimes direct the experience with your intention. Sometimes you cant direct it and thats when you have to be good at letting go - going with the flow and learning how to "ride" that. These are often the easiest plants to talk to though, and they have a lot to teach if you are open. Once you connect with them enough they will also talk to you in meditation - not the same level of depth and physical healing, but good for meditations.

Many plants I will "diet" them.... This is like apprenticing to the plant - you choose one at a time, and usually you sacrifice something to that plant while spending a lot of dedicated time connecting with it. Once you diet a plant it becomes your friend and ally, so it can be a lot of hard work with a very large reward. Usually the sacrifice is time in isolation while eating the most plain and boring diet possible - hardest part for me is no sex because you are courting your plant.... I wrote this article which explains how to do dieta at home: http://realitysandwich.com/290050/plant-remedy-for-the-soul-plant-dieting-and-communion/

Once you connect with a plant however it happens, there are different ways to call on them.... Sometimes I use journey work similar to astral projection.... Once you practice enough you can often talk to them without having to leave your body or go into the astral realms though - you just tune into your intuition and connect with them... Dreams can be powerful. I often sing if I want a plants help with more then just guidance - for guidance I just talk to them, but if asking a plant to help me with a client for example - I would probably sing. Sometimes the song just comes out, other times I can see the song and I sing what I see (which is always interesting!).

Lately I have been doing meditations with a snuff called rape'/or hape' (pronounced hop-A). It is mostly tobacco from the Amazon with ashes from sacred trees and other herbs ground into a fine dry powder. You blow it into the nose with a blow pipe. It produces a slight altered state that dramatically shifts your energy - makes it really easy to connect with the hape' itself or to connect with your other allies.... I usually do it before breakfast and will meditate about 30-40 minutes. It's become a nice time to check in with my guides and my own energy for a bit. But besides just getting guidance it can work magic too - I have one for example which makes it easier to do astral projection, and I have another for releasing heavy energies or entities - so you can ask for guidance or ask for healing when using it.

And since we are on the topic of nature spirits and not just plants.... I often find it easier to make a strong connection with Mother Earth or Mother Ocean, or maybe the local mountain spirits when working with plants... I have one hape' that is great for connecting with mother Earth and trees... My favorite way of connecting with the earth spirits is to do an offering or work with crystals and gems... Offerings with coca especially I find really good for connecting with the Earth - I think she likes coca...

And of course animal spirits as well... I connect a lot with these - especially birds seem to pop into my view at the perfect time to feel like a message.... One of my favorite plants San Pedro for example is associated with hummingbirds... Recently I asked San Pedro for help bringing more clients to my retreat in Peru - and as I was praying for this a hummingbird came up and started singing to me for 30-40 minutes! I just listened to its song because it felt like it was spreading my message to the right ears... When I finally got up to walk back home it flew right up in front of my face just to say good-bye!

  • 2