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Magically Manipulating Environments

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#1 Pikkusisko

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Posted 12 May 2015 - 02:29 PM

Just mind mulling... :thinking:

I recently had the pleasure of staying in a gorgeous bed and breakfast. For the owners of this establishment this was their home, livelihood and life's passion. Seems welcoming strangers into your home is not without risk. And when that home is your business, which you care for mostly by yourself, I can't imagine the devastation caused when some self entitled prick decides to act disrespectfully in either the way they treat you or your belongings. I've had plenty of experience cleaning up after people with just such attitudes. People who assumed because they were paying a high price for their luxury accomodation they could trash it in one weekend. Or even steal random crap just because they felt they could. :upset:

When I'd learnt the owners had experienced such poor behaviour it seemed unimaginable considering the surroundings all demanded a level of care and consideration you wouldn't get in any hotel. There was a face to it- people who you knew would be cleaning up after you, cooking for you- rather than some hotel room where you'd never know the person who scrubs the toilet you used.

And yet I'm learning no matter what, no matter where... people are going to act like jerks.

So what to do? They're going to steal your merch even though you're a tiny, one man ran shop. They're going to leave your cafe without even paying. They will come into your office and verbally abuse you for doing your job. They'll bombard your website with bad reviews and spread rumours that aren't true. They'll break something and never take responsibility. They may even break you. And the worst part is, too often, there's nothing you can do about it.

It's unrealistic to hope to always keep the jerks out, especially if your job is to deal with difficult people. It doesn't create good business to deny one person and not another when they come together. So what about magically manipulating the environment in order to make people behave? For example a social worker's office might encourage calmness, honesty, conversation. A shop might make you think twice about touching something you have no intention of buying. A library might have a feeling of serenity you don't wish to break but to honour.

Also what of less 'ethical' manipulations? When you enter the restaurant you intended to only have a coffee at you suddenly find yourself drawn toward the lunch menu. At the casino you start to feel generous. The fee your attorney gave you which you felt was too expensive feels almost reasonable in their office.

SO..

What do you feel about this kind of magic?

Have you done it or something similar?

Have you ever experienced it or something similar?

As someone who is able to detect this kind of magic do you find it intrustive, offensive?

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#2 travsha

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Posted 12 May 2015 - 02:42 PM

Well, anyone putting a crystal in their house or business is really doing this. Anyone who smudges is doing this. Manipulating the energy of their space or wherever they do the smudge ect.... Even just walking in a room and smiling can do this!

I think ethically the main consideration is whether or not what you do helps or harms others (at least for me). I wouldnt feel right taking advantage of others, but I also believe people should be able to support themselves fairly - so as long as you keep a balance between your giving and taking natures then you are probably supporting yourself as well as putting some good energy out there for others. I believe in as much as possible trying to leave things as well as or better then when I found them - that applies to energetically leaving things that way as well as physically leaving them that way.

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#3 OCEANOS

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Posted 12 May 2015 - 03:12 PM

What do you feel about this kind of magic?

As with all kinds of magic in my personal perspective, the need for it is when you encounter something that cannot be resolved by mundane or normal means. By employing Spiritual Influences to aid and resolve your issue can be a good option. I am in favor of such magic if it is essential.
Have you done it or something similar?

Yes I done it before to improve business of various retail, service, F&B establishment; to attract more customers and profit so that business will thrive and prosper.

Have you ever experienced it or something similar?

Yes I did. After deploying such magic, most businesses improved by 30% - 50% in 1 week time as shown in numbers with increase in customers and profits.
As someone who is able to detect this kind of magic do you find it intrustive, offensive?

No because I feel there is always a need or want before anyone will make an effort to do such magic and as long as it harm none; I don't see a need to feel intrusive or offensive about it. Such magic are usually inviting or encouraging and not so much element of manipulation; if you are not open to whatever it is representing you will not be manipulated by its influence.

Edited by OCEANOS, 12 May 2015 - 03:13 PM.

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#4 Lilitia

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Posted 12 May 2015 - 03:34 PM

I think that as long as the manipulation involved does not cause a person to act in a fashion that would be harmful to them self or others (key phrase!) then there is really no objection that I personally have to it.

For instance, I use a similar type of magic when I am at work as I am sure those of you who are reading can imagine. I manipulate the environment around me to induce calm and order, because if I do not, my personal safety can be put at risk (A little off topic but that makes me think of this abbreviation we use at work, 1*. One asterisk = one ass to risk. Bad pun, I know :happy: ).

The most dangerous of jobs on the planet, the convenience store clerk, is a position in which I can see this type of work being used as well. I have felt this one particular clerk's wards as I walked into her shop while she was behind the counter, and all I thought was, "You go, girl!" Theft, assault, harassment, armed robbery, you name it...the convenience store clerk sees it all.

It is reassuring to me as a customer to know that businesses I frequent deploy this type of protection because it ensures the prosperity of their business and those in the surrounding area and the safety of their employees, customers and the goods they sell. I am more likely to spend money somewhere that I feel safe and that takes precautions to ensure that I am, so in no way would I feel offended in that aspect.

However, were my free will to be forced in a way such as feeling compelled to spend more or buy certain useless items, or like the example in the OP of the exorbitantly high lawyer's fee, I would be royally pissed off and would retaliate.

Edited by RachelLiz, 12 May 2015 - 03:37 PM.

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#5 ArcticWitch

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Posted 12 May 2015 - 04:10 PM

What do you feel about this kind of magic?

Have you done it or something similar?

Have you ever experienced it or something similar?

As someone who is able to detect this kind of magic do you find it intrustive, offensive?

----
I'm a naturally protective and territorial individual, so I don't have a problem with people using magic to manipulate their environment. The only caveat is when an environment is manipulated in a way that prompts a person to engage in something they wouldn't want to do of their own volition; an example is the local metaphysical shop that is spelled to cause severe 'mental static' that is only quieted when serious consideration is given towards purchasing unnecessary (and usually expensive) items. That type of manipulation is not acceptable to me, except in extreme cases.

When I was younger (before I embraced my Path but recognized that I was a Sensitive), I found all flavors of magically manipulated environments intrusive because- as narcissistic youths are often wont to do- I took the magical protectiveness in a personal way rather than accept that it was a generic, blanket manipulation that extended to all who entered the space. As I've grown older, however, I've developed appreciation for people who take the initiative to protect the places and things they value. In a world that encourages disposable everything, I find it refreshing that there's still people who consider their environment and possessions to be precious, and take steps to protect that preciousness.

Yes, I have done (and continue to do) similar magic. Back when I knew diddly squat about witchcraft but was learning how energy works, I frequently manipulated my work environments. The mistake I made was to manipulate them in such a way that strongly benefited everyone else, but rarely helped me (oh, and I used myself as a power source for those workings- no wonder I had so many health problems back then!). I've since lost my 'bleeding heart' ways and would make sure that my well-being is included if I ever find myself in such a situation again.

Today, I manipulate my property right to the boundary lines, and make no apology for the discomfort transient ne'er-do-wells exhibit when walking by. My house is moderately spelled as well to promote feelings of comfort and safety to those who are invited inside. If a guest doesn't approve, then my first response would be to question their intentions, or probe a bit to see why they would have a negative reaction to an otherwise positive manipulation.

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#6 Wexler

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Posted 12 May 2015 - 04:55 PM

What do you feel about this kind of magic?

Have you done it or something similar?

Have you ever experienced it or something similar?

As someone who is able to detect this kind of magic do you find it intrustive, offensive?


I feel this sort of magic is 'fine'. I don't have a problem with it. It really seems like the least 'intrusive' sort of magic you can do to affect the behavior of others. "If you come here, you're going to get nice feelings" (or whatever). Much nicer than a targeted spell right to the brain.

I have not really done anything similar because I do not have a space that is really my own. Friends sometimes comment on my room when they come over if I have just 'cleaned' it and it's feeling especially nice. But I hardly call that a spell for manipulation, my room just sometimes feels really nice once I get the floor washes out and tidy up.

I have felt the magic of a certain place, but I do not feel like it was intentionally done. Just the way things develop energetically due to physical changes. I remember the thread about the genus loci of Vegas, I think it is possible that many spaces that feel 'different' are just that way because the spirit of the place itself is different, not necessarily due to the meddling of a witch.

I don't know if I would find it to be intrusive or not. I think there is a difference between "oh look, here is a nice lovely place for you to not be violent in!" and "FEEL GOOD WHILE YOU'RE HERE". I have no doubts that poorly cast magic could be intrusive, or that it could be made to be intrusive on purpose. But it seems to me that such a large part of folk magics and modern magics today are based around cleansing spaces to make them feel good and safe and have people behave certain ways there, that most people enjoy these types of environments and do not feel unduly manipulated.

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#7 Pikkusisko

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Posted 12 May 2015 - 06:27 PM

Really enjoying reading your posts, guys.

I have to agree that taking precautions is not only in the best efforts of yourself but anyone who enters that space. I believe I would be repelled if I entered any shop that was geared to make me spend, spend, spend. I feel that commercialism is so obnoxious these days that it would be far more refreshing to enter a place which is geared for comfort rather than consumerism. In this way I would naturally feel compelled to browse longer. The choice would be mine but the outcome of it would likely be benefical for the owner.

Maybe a concern of mind would be if this kind of magic was used in a place where children would spend quite a bit of time. I think it's healthier for a young children to not be effected by this kind of magic save in small quantities, as it's essential to their development that they can let out their energies and frustrations. I cringe to think of a childminder using it to make children placid.

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#8 Izzie

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Posted 12 May 2015 - 11:55 PM

Just mind mulling... :thinking:I recently had the pleasure of staying in a gorgeous bed and breakfast. For the owners of this establishment this was their home, livelihood and life's passion. Seems welcoming strangers into your home is not without risk. And when that home is your business, which you care for mostly by yourself, I can't imagine the devastation caused when some self entitled prick decides to act disrespectfully in either the way they treat you or your belongings. I've had plenty of experience cleaning up after people with just such attitudes. People who assumed because they were paying a high price for their luxury accomodation they could trash it in one weekend. Or even steal random crap just because they felt they could. :upset:When I'd learnt the owners had experienced such poor behaviour it seemed unimaginable considering the surroundings all demanded a level of care and consideration you wouldn't get in any hotel. There was a face to it- people who you knew would be cleaning up after you, cooking for you- rather than some hotel room where you'd never know the person who scrubs the toilet you used.And yet I'm learning no matter what, no matter where... people are going to act like jerks.So what to do? They're going to steal your merch even though you're a tiny, one man ran shop. They're going to leave your cafe without even paying. They will come into your office and verbally abuse you for doing your job. They'll bombard your website with bad reviews and spread rumours that aren't true. They'll break something and never take responsibility. They may even break you. And the worst part is, too often, there's nothing you can do about it.It's unrealistic to hope to always keep the jerks out, especially if your job is to deal with difficult people. It doesn't create good business to deny one person and not another when they come together. So what about magically manipulating the environment in order to make people behave? For example a social worker's office might encourage calmness, honesty, conversation. A shop might make you think twice about touching something you have no intention of buying. A library might have a feeling of serenity you don't wish to break but to honour.Also what of less 'ethical' manipulations? When you enter the restaurant you intended to only have a coffee at you suddenly find yourself drawn toward the lunch menu. At the casino you start to feel generous. The fee your attorney gave you which you felt was too expensive feels almost reasonable in their office.SO..What do you feel about this kind of magic?Have you done it or something similar?Have you ever experienced it or something similar?As someone who is able to detect this kind of magic do you find it intrustive, offensive?



----

Yes I have experienced this with a metaphysical shop. I would be driving home which takes me past the store, and about once a quarter I would feel compelled to visit the store. When I figured out that the shop owners must be using spell work, I quit going to the shop. It kinda pissed me off because it wAs a manipulative , compelling magick. There are ways to increase revenue without being so invasive. The use of a Buddha money altar, for example, works very well and the shop owner might find that the customers contribute to the money altar as well.

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#9 Lilitia

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Posted 13 May 2015 - 01:36 AM

People can forget that by forcing the hand of their customers to buy unwanted bullshit they are being just as shitty as those they intend to discourage. It's sad, really...the vast stupidity that some folks can exhibit.

Or maybe those shitty shop keeps just don't care about whether they are forcing your hand or not, they just want your money. In which case, I am not surprised either, because people are dicks for the most part. Honesty and fair dealing are a rare find.

That is why such manipulative wards are needed in the first place, to calm the unrest in the generally unpredictable sea of humanity (or what I like think of as a clusterfuck of shit heads, but it amounts to the same thing).

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My mama used to tell me 'bout these
Broke, poachin' ass bitches in these streets,
So many people wanna see me fall,
Invite me to the table but don't want me to eat at all.... ---- Z'Ro the Crooked

#10 Wexler

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Posted 13 May 2015 - 01:48 PM

Izzie mentioned other ways to increase revenue that aren't as invasive. If I had a shop I'd sure as hell magic the fuck out of it to increase sales and customers. What would you do for yourself or a client to increase sales, that isn't so invasive?
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#11 Aria

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Posted 13 May 2015 - 03:54 PM

SO..

What do you feel about this kind of magic?

Have you done it or something similar?

Have you ever experienced it or something similar?

As someone who is able to detect this kind of magic do you find it intrustive, offensive?


I see no problem at all with this, on the contrary I see this 'manipulating the environment' as one of the most used and widespread forms of witchcraft.
I have worked in the past for improving businesses of relatives and friends, and once to bring one down.
Working on people's behaviour, in my experience, is useless. All sorts of people one can immagine walks into a shop, it is very difficult to make them all behave the same. But it is possible to make the atmosphere relaxing, serene and to call for prosperity. If you have a brave owner, who is willing to keep on with maintaining the relation with it, a spirit may be asked to get people in and to make the business work. In my experience, two things are necessary for these kinds of workings to work: 1) as in all kinds of magic related to this, the owner can't just sit there and wait for things to improve and 2) being greedy always screws things up.

Also what of less 'ethical' manipulations? When you enter the restaurant you intended to only have a coffee at you suddenly find yourself drawn toward the lunch menu. At the casino you start to feel generous. The fee your attorney gave you which you felt was too expensive feels almost reasonable in their office.

Advertising is generally considered ethical and legitimate, but advertisers do this more often than witches. I think that manipulation comes in many forms and degrees, as do lying and many other human behaviors. One of my common witchcraft thing is to always draw a particular glyph on an application or a cover letter when I'm sending it off. I have confidence that this will help the the resume get noticed in the pile, or the file handed smoothly at whatever office etc. Is this cheating? Maybe. Do we live in a fair world? No.

Edited by Aria, 13 May 2015 - 03:55 PM.

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#12 Guest_monsnoleedra_*

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Posted 13 May 2015 - 04:15 PM

It's sort of funny to me. A business owner uses basic sociology and psychology to set up a store and register subliminally on the shopper to make them spend money. Product placement, ease of entry and exit, using the human condition and even a degree of cultural conditioning to make sales. Ever notice for instance most department type stores tend to place the babies section right near the lingerie section in the store? Talk about implied location of product. NO assumption of spell work or magical manipulation, nope simple usage of human nature and basic sciences. A boarding house is no different. Relies upon a base human need, placement of items which instill certain desired traits and expectations.

Type of store only maters to the extent that it's products will be aimed at a certain target group and product viewing it incorporate items that appeal to the greatest amount of targeted consumers. NO spell work, no egrigore, no servitors, nothing magical in the process. Yet ask half a dozen witches or occultist and it's almost certain they'll claim some sort of magic is being employed to enhance or manipulate the customer in some way. Disregard basic marketing theory and product placement, it has to be magic!

It's funny to me in many ways. Magic now gets blamed for more things by pagans / occultist than Satan gets blamed for things by Christian's it seems to me.

Magically manipulate the environment, why? Basic human nature coupled to marketing and product placement already does all that and not a single magical item is needed.

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#13 bewitchingredhead

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Posted 13 May 2015 - 08:12 PM

Or how sugary cereals are placed within height and view of children (especially ones in buggies/carts) while the healthy cereals are always at the very top (which makes it hard for some rather short individuals to acquire without climbing :dry: ). I don't think it's any huge secret that Target puts that load of made in China crap at the very front of the store so it's the first thing you see! It's like a mini (albeit typically seasonal) dollar store and it's enormously successful. Likely those are some of the store's highest profit margin items. I know it is for Wally World (the made in China items).

To answer the OP's original question- it doesn't bother me that some witches use magic to enhance their ability to make money. Yes, I know the owner of one of our local shops uses a few constant methods of employment to magically enhance her store's ability to bring in money. However, I don't feel like it's intrusive. I don't feel compelled to buy something I don't need/want. The "spells" are more general in that they're designed to "bring money in the door" and/or "help increase business". I've never found myself at her store holding several different items contemplating whether or not I really need and/or want them, like I do at major stores. Which goes back to Monsno's comment regarding the blatant tactics used by businesses and advertisers to get us to purchase things. I'm much more offended and/or irritated about those tactics than a few witchy enchantments.

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#14 Aurelian

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Posted 17 May 2015 - 12:53 AM

There is SO much to talk about with this, whether psychological, TW, hoodoo.....lets say there are lots and lots of dirty tricks! I don't even know where to start
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#15 Gyreleaf

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Posted 22 May 2015 - 04:15 PM

I would think manipulating environments is one of the main tools with have. I personally prefer to shop in metaphysical shops with obvious workings going on as a sign of actual practitioners. But there are so many more subtle tricks that can be used that hardly anyone will ever notice.

I used many tricks when I was working in a charity furniture shop to increase sales. My favourite was my homemade beeswax furniture polish, I basically prepared magical oils and combined them with melted beeswax. Just the same as making a salve but with extra beeswax to get the right consistency. I would then polish certain items while chanting. It worked extremely well.

As Aurelian said, there are so many tricks we could talk about.

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