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Magick and Spell Casting: an uncomfortable thought


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#81 Crow59

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Posted 14 June 2015 - 07:45 PM

I missed all the fun also, as this was posted before I even joined the site. I do have some thoughts on the original post, though. I don't know about physics, but I do agree there is a price to pay in witchcraft. Whether it comes from ourselves, or is borrowed from other sources (natural items, "charged" magical tools, etc.) the power to manipulate natural energy has to come from somewhere. TANSTAAFL.

As for the discussion about the Wiccan Rede, I don't need a rede to know I shouldn't indiscriminately harm any more than I need a commandment to know I shouldn't indiscriminately kill. But sometimes the intent is to harm. I'll leave the "right" and "wrong" of harming someone for the individual witch to determine. But I know from my own experience that some people need harming and I have no qualms about paying the price (karma or whatever you want to call it) for harming these people.

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"There are truths on this side of the Pyrenees which are falsehoods on the other" - Blaise Pascal
"But sometimes the intent is to harm." - Me

#82 Natty

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Posted 23 November 2015 - 01:39 PM

But sometimes the intent is to harm. I'll leave the "right" and "wrong" of harming someone for the individual witch to determine. But I know from my own experience that some people need harming and I have no qualms about paying the price (karma or whatever you want to call it) for harming these people.


Crow, I have read this at quite an opportune time..... This may seem strange but I have never intentionally set out to harm anyone. However, at this moment in my life I have encountered someone who I really feel needs to learn a lesson. Having never done this before, I am obviously apprehensive but I feel more strongly than ever about the events that have lead me to want to act in this instance. I have sat on this for 2 weeks in the hope that I could just put it to the back of mind and get on with things but even after trying to cool off I still feel the same.

Any advice would be most welcomed!

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#83 Nikki

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Posted 23 November 2015 - 05:08 PM

2 weeks, imho, is not long at all.

You may feel and think differently in 2 months.

Intense emotions tend to be blinding. With time, patience and introspection - clarity can surface, offering other options and more effective long-term remedies.


Considering outcomes before casting a spell is very useful (and wise) -- especially before raising the left-hand.

I've been taught that once one decides to take this path, it's a step you can't take back.... and, one is permanently changed by it. (much like losing ones virginity -- with victims)

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The difference between Medicine and Poison is the Dose. :oil-bottle:
I Love you as certain Dark Things are to be Loved,
In Secret, Between the Shadow and the Soul.
- Pablo Neruda


#84 Natty

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Posted 23 November 2015 - 05:39 PM

Thanks Nikki, I really appreciate what you have to say. I'm not an impulsive person and my usual philosophy is to move on and forget about it. I don't hold grudges and I'm not vindictive. There is just something with this particular situation/individual that does not sit right with me.

I will wait though. I don't relish the idea of having a permanent connection to this person even if it is hex shaped!!!

Thanks for your advice.

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#85 Autumn Moon

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Posted 23 November 2015 - 06:27 PM

I do spells of Justice when needed, so it is the wrong doer that is punishing themselves. There are no consequences for me because I have done nothing but defend myself.
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#86 Natty

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Posted 23 November 2015 - 10:19 PM

Well, that seems like an awesome take on things. I can't believe I hadn't even considered it.

Thank you

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#87 Nikki

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Posted 23 November 2015 - 11:01 PM

Justice Spells are amazing, Natty. They work in ways that defy imagination !!!

If you need any ideas, just ask. There are a few very creative casters here who try will help. Plus, the forum is ripe with this sort of subject matter, if you search.

I sooooo understand the frustration of 'sitting' with something so troublesome, as I am not vindictive, spiteful or take pleasure in harming others, either... but, sometimes you aren't left with many options. It's good to have a clear head before moving forward, especially when confronted with 'new' territory. One can bypass messy magical entanglements and much regret down the line.

Good luck and happy crafting !! Go get 'em.

Edited by Nikki, 24 November 2015 - 03:15 PM.

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The difference between Medicine and Poison is the Dose. :oil-bottle:
I Love you as certain Dark Things are to be Loved,
In Secret, Between the Shadow and the Soul.
- Pablo Neruda


#88 Autumn Moon

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Posted 24 November 2015 - 01:53 AM

Well, that seems like an awesome take on things. I can't believe I hadn't even considered it.

Thank you

___________
You are most welcome.

Candle & name paper, and mirror box Spells make good Justice Spells (I use shiny side of tin foil facing the inside of the box...much easier to work with than actual mirrors).

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#89 Natty

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Posted 24 November 2015 - 10:15 AM

Nikki and Autumn Moon -Thank you so much for your help. It is frustrating you're right. I'm going to give it some thought as talking about it on here has been quite cathartic in itself. Perhaps it's not worth burning my brain cells over after all 😊.

Edited by Natty, 24 November 2015 - 10:16 AM.

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#90 RoseRed

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Posted 24 November 2015 - 03:31 PM

I do spells of Justice when needed, so it is the wrong doer that is punishing themselves. There are no consequences for me because I have done nothing but defend myself.



That's called a Penance Malediction.

I fully believe that anyone Working within the realms of Justice has specific rules and consequences for those that do not Claim their portion of Responsibility in a given situation.

The consequences are lessened but not eradicated. Except for those that are enacting Vengeance under the guise of Justice. Whether consciously aware of it or not.

There are certain things I've been sitting on for almost a year now. 2 weeks is barely enough time to lick your wounds and it still falls under the 'lashing out' time period.

Like I said, these are my personal beliefs. No one has to agree with them.

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When my wings get tired I grab my broom.

#91 Nikki

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Posted 24 November 2015 - 04:36 PM

Ya know, RR.. that's a really good point.

The Justice Spells I've done for others (third party) manifest beautifully.... however, I can totally see how 'back splash' is an issue when it's directed at someone you're connected to in some emotional way.

By considering what I may have done to contribute to the situation, I could construct a more effective spell.

Would taking your share of personal responsibility prior to casting help to eliminate potential back splash? If so, how might one go about that?

Any advice for the first timer?

(Also, I wish to add that my mind is working on aspects of responsibility -- not 'victim' bashing or blaming)

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The difference between Medicine and Poison is the Dose. :oil-bottle:
I Love you as certain Dark Things are to be Loved,
In Secret, Between the Shadow and the Soul.
- Pablo Neruda


#92 RoseRed

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Posted 24 November 2015 - 10:23 PM

I've found that claiming my responsibilities in a situation can help to remove the 'rose colored glasses'. A recent personal example - after my father died, my stepbrother and I had a beautiful moment. It didn't last long. A scorpion's a scorpion. I was the dipshit that forgot that. I allowed myself to believe that a lying thief may have changed over the years. He married a good woman - that's his only saving grace. Anyways, I was hurt, I felt betrayed. When I was cleaning out my Dad's house, I gave him his Mom's stuff that he thought was lost forever (big family drama - ugh) - he took a lot of my Father's things, too. When I went back down to the house with the moving truck to bring the rest of it home - half of it was missing.

Sure, I could've lashed out. I could've called it justice. I can still can. He stole from me. And my dead Dad.

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#93 Autumn Moon

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Posted 25 November 2015 - 12:02 AM

That's called a Penance Malediction.

I fully believe that anyone Working within the realms of Justice has specific rules and consequences for those that do not Claim their portion of Responsibility in a given situation.

The consequences are lessened but not eradicated. Except for those that are enacting Vengeance under the guise of Justice. Whether consciously aware of it or not.

There are certain things I've been sitting on for almost a year now. 2 weeks is barely enough time to lick your wounds and it still falls under the 'lashing out' time period.

Like I said, these are my personal beliefs. No one has to agree with them.

_____
" No one has to agree with them".

Good, because my experience(s) are the total opposite of yours :tongue:

I don't do any Justice spell that is not totally deserved by who has wronged me or mine. The wrongs they did to me go back to them, the wrongs they attempt to do, go back to them without reaching me or mine. The more they give, the more they get back. I have done nothing wrong, they are doing it to themselves = no, none, nyet, nein, consequences for me or mine...just more peaceful and satisfied living...and that I'll take.

That is basically why I do not curse someone...to avoid possible consequences, with the operative word being 'possible'. There have been those on this board, that say they do not get any consequences back even from cursing. I guess 'self-fulfilling prophecy may operate on this subject.

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#94 RoseRed

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Posted 25 November 2015 - 12:48 AM

_____
" No one has to agree with them".

Good, because my experience(s) are the total opposite of yours :tongue:
And I'm really glad that you shared your experiences. It's so cool that we can play around and talk. :)

I don't do any Justice spell that is not totally deserved by who has wronged me or mine.
If I had a dollar for every time I've heard that LOL. (I'm sorry, I couldn't help it - you left yourself wide open for that one :nana: )

But seriously, I understand what you're saying. I'm sure you gave due consideration to whatever Workings you've done. Every practitioner should.

Currents of spells aside (ie:justice, love, etc), and turn toward a more technical conversation you have different types of spellwork blending together beautifully here. You've got the 'Eye for an eye :atoast: :blobfire: ', the I'm rubber - you're glue' (which is a classic :cool_witch: ), the return to sender in real time (nice touch :atoast: )

The wrongs they did to me go back to them, the wrongs they attempt to do, go back to them without reaching me or mine. The more they give, the more they get back. I have done nothing wrong, they are doing it to themselves = no, none, nyet, nein, consequences for me or mine...just more peaceful and satisfied living...and that I'll take.
:beerchug:

That is basically why I do not curse someone...to avoid possible consequences, with the operative word being 'possible'. There have been those on this board, that say they do not get any consequences back even from cursing. I guess 'self-fulfilling prophecy may operate on this subject.
I suppose that depends on how one decides and defines what's a consequence, what's a back splatter (some things are just messy) and what's beyond what they're willing call payment/ sacrifice/ insert word here. Generally.

There are some curses that are so very warranted that to not do them could destroy a Witch. Those are the ones that suffer no backlash. But the consequences are severe. That level of Soul Healing is extreme. It changes a person. It can destroy a person. Usually both.

Casual cursing is a different conversation.


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When my wings get tired I grab my broom.

#95 Autumn Moon

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Posted 25 November 2015 - 01:44 AM

Ha, ha...yes, I did fall into that one.

Edited by Autumn Moon, 25 November 2015 - 01:25 PM.

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#96 Aria

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Posted 25 November 2015 - 10:18 AM

_____

That is basically why I do not curse someone...to avoid possible consequences, with the operative word being 'possible'. There have been those on this board, that say they do not get any consequences back even from cursing. I guess 'self-fulfilling prophecy may operate on this subject.


I think consequences can often be handled, directed elsewhere, or avoided.
Putting the blame on someone else, or have 'something' else operate on your behalf are example of ways of doing this. In Italiak folk magic and witchcraft is common to blame a curse on a particular spirit. I think we've discussed this elsewhere too.

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La strega è un frutto di terra. (M.)

#97 Natty

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Posted 25 November 2015 - 10:29 AM

Hi guys,

I just thought I'd update you on the situation. I was in the supermarket yesterday and bumped into said person. Out of the blue I got a full apology and the remorse was very real. I hadn't done a thing in real magical terms apart from meditate on things. I guess that was enough to send out the energy that was needed.

Thank you again for all your guidance. It was most appreciated!

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#98 Autumn Moon

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Posted 25 November 2015 - 01:10 PM

I think consequences can often be handled, directed elsewhere, or avoided.
Putting the blame on someone else, or have 'something' else operate on your behalf are example of ways of doing this. In Italiak folk magic and witchcraft is common to blame a curse on a particular spirit. I think we've discussed this elsewhere too.

__________
That goes contrary to personal responsibility. Do you not find that sooner or later it comes back to you in some way...I would think so.

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#99 Autumn Moon

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Posted 25 November 2015 - 01:11 PM

Hi guys,

I just thought I'd update you on the situation. I was in the supermarket yesterday and bumped into said person. Out of the blue I got a full apology and the remorse was very real. I hadn't done a thing in real magical terms apart from meditate on things. I guess that was enough to send out the energy that was needed.

Thank you again for all your guidance. It was most appreciated!

________
Good for you!

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#100 Aria

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Posted 25 November 2015 - 03:32 PM

__________
That goes contrary to personal responsibility. Do you not find that sooner or later it comes back to you in some way...I would think so.


AM, I was feeling dèja vu, so I find out we've had exactly the same discussion here :D http://www.tradition...workings/page-2

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La strega è un frutto di terra. (M.)