Jump to content


* * * * * 1 votes

Magick and Spell Casting: an uncomfortable thought


  • Please log in to reply
110 replies to this topic

#41 Guest_monsnoleedra_*

Guest_monsnoleedra_*
  • Guests

Posted 30 April 2015 - 12:10 AM

Am I to believe most Witches on this site find it appropriate to harm others? Not the Witches I know in my neck of the woods. And I did not quote from the Rede verbatim. At least no intention to do so. You certainly can attempt to slam the world if it lights your fire. It just doesn't light mine. After 5 years of killing in Vietnam I've had enough of harming.
Never said consequences were my priority. I simply stated a wise one might think about possible consequences to self and others. No intention to be confrontational just new on this forum and unaware of where many of you are coming from. That is why I am poising thoughts. Chill and back off of the hair trigger. There be no clips in my .223 :-)
Concerning credentials I mean no one here is qualified to say what they purport to practice is the only absolute truth and that there is nothing left worthy of their reflection.
I appreciate such things as bi-location have surely been discussed here but probably not many have seen it from inside the Intelligence Community. Don't care to know! that's fine. I won't tell.
Fear as a tool of protection? How about psychic shielding as an alternative. From my experience on the killing fields, fear only breeds irrational behavior and unintentional collateral damage. If a thug fears you he will target you. Christians once burned Witches because they feared them and what their truth would do to the mythology they were pushing. The sniper in war is feared and most often targeted. If you have been targeted by malicious powerful critters perhaps you have been playing down the wrong rabbit hole.

Anyhow... Sorry if I offended anyone. I extend an olive branch with a white flag attached. If no one asks for my insight I won't tell.



I think it's not a matter of it being appropriate to harm other's as much as an acceptance that most of us are willing to go to the extent needed. But it's also the knowledge that while we may not resort to such drastic measures right off the bat those who know us will advise we will take it to that level and are willing and capable of doing so. Yet as other's have said its also a matter of how we define appropriate and harming to others. Each of us have differing idea's of what makes a curse, hex, etc and what criteria would have to be used against us personally or against things we ethically and morally believe. Me personally the gods and goddesses I follow have shown over and over they can be vengeful and take people to task. If one considers ethics and morality to be inpart instilled by our spirituality and religion then it should eh safe to assume we would go to the same degree as the gods / goddesses we worship, pray to and believe in.

Regarding absolute truths, my own truths are absolute and what I base my life off of. Yet absolute does not infer nor imply that my truths are static and not actually dynamic with quasi static aspects. Paganism has changed a lot in regard to having floating truths and beliefs now and willing to consider anything. In the past our truths we absolute though we used UPG, SPG and other things to test and refine those truths. But seldom if ever was it accepting things simply because someone else wants or needs to believe something. If it couldn't stand scrutiny then it wasn't worth giving consideration to or stepping beyond our own beliefs, truths and world views. Especially when some of us had more Recon type beliefs and constantly pushed our knowledge and understanding of where they came from and why.

On one hand you talk about fear and causing things to seek you out then on the other you speak about chasing the wrong rabbit down the hole. Been my experience the more we do the more things take notice of us and come to look us over. We don't have to chase them down the hole many times they will pull you down to see and test what you know. When you shine a light in the dark of night things will come to see what is there. Either from simple curiosity, from a sense of fear and yes even from a sense of being challenged and answering your challenge.

  • 0

#42 Solanaceae

Solanaceae

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,177 posts

Posted 30 April 2015 - 01:42 AM

Wow, did this conversation ever blow up while I was sleeping! I think I'll hold off till tomorrow when I have more time to comment.

Edited by Solanaceae, 30 April 2015 - 01:42 AM.

  • 0

Some are born to sweet delight,

Some are born to endless night.

 

(Fragments from "Auguries of Innocence") William Blake


#43 Aria

Aria

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 253 posts

Posted 30 April 2015 - 08:50 AM

So much has already been said, that I just feel the need to add a couple of things

Am I to believe most Witches on this site find it appropriate to harm others? Not the Witches I know in my neck of the woods. And I did not quote from the Rede verbatim. At least no intention to do so. You certainly can attempt to slam the world if it lights your fire. It just doesn't light mine. After 5 years of killing in Vietnam I've had enough of harming.
Never said consequences were my priority. I simply stated a wise one might think about possible consequences to self and others. No intention to be confrontational just new on this forum and unaware of where many of you are coming from. That is why I am poising thoughts. Chill and back off of the hair trigger. There be no clips in my .223 :-)


Honestly, why would it concern you what other witches do or what their morals are?
I don't think anyone here cares whether one curses or not. I believe that ethical considerations about the opportunity of acting/not-acting are to be made by individual practitioners, and I don't believe there is a goldern rule to be universally obeyed. For example, I would never work for the army or engage in killing people professionally, because I would consider the harm carried out highly unethical, immoral and more harmful (on myself and others) than many wicked sorcerous operations. And because I would hate a job in which I am not allowed to question the orders that I receive, and where I am not allowed to bring my own judgement into it.
That is often the difference between 'revealed' religions and spiritual paths (like the religions of the Book), and more mystical, experencial paths.
In the former what is right and wrong has been set out for you, in the latter you have to find out yourself.

Concerning credentials I mean no one here is qualified to say what they purport to practice is the only absolute truth and that there is nothing left worthy of their reflection. [...] Anyhow... Sorry if I offended anyone. I extend an olive branch with a white flag attached. If no one asks for my insight I won't tell.


Yet, you feel it is necessary to come here and warn people about 'prices to pay', and 'consequences', stating what a witch should do. Because your OP was not a question nor an invite for discussion, but an observation on the way things should be.

Fear as a tool of protection? How about psychic shielding as an alternative. From my experience on the killing fields, fear only breeds irrational behavior and unintentional collateral damage. If a thug fears you he will target you.


Yes, sure. Just visualize a burning circle of fire, right?
In my experience if a thug fears you, he will wait for a weaker-looking victim to come across.

Aria

Ps. On quantum physics. I am no physicist, and my mathemical understanding of quantum physics is too poor for me to grasp it fully. What is clear to me is that it's a relatively new field, and that much of it stays at the level of theorization, with little practical application. I always find it disturbing when people resort to it to 'explain' witchcraft (be they ex CIA agents or just people who watch lot of sci-fi fiction).
The rational, empiric scientifc method and the left-hand path are very different things. The two may touch at times, and magic and science surely have, historically.
But they are two different things, and do not share the same methods nor objectives, in my view.

  • 1
La strega è un frutto di terra. (M.)

#44 Christine

Christine

    Marsh Wiggle

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 449 posts

Posted 30 April 2015 - 10:40 AM

I got as far as the "credentials" and just lost it... whooo, my aching sides. If I got "credentials" does that mean I'd be a card-carrying witch instead of self-professed? Would I get fussed at for pulling my witch card? Will it fit in the same pocket as my poetic license? Oh... oh man... okay going to read the rest now.
  • 3
Don't drink from the river, drink from the well.

#45 Pikkusisko

Pikkusisko

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 313 posts

Posted 30 April 2015 - 12:12 PM

Feeding frenzy.
  • 0

'There's rules to this stuff. Wishing an event to be changes elements before and after it. Memories will be destroyed, babies will not be born, potential worlds could be evaporated by your wish.' - Prismo


#46 Ravenshaw

Ravenshaw

    Life is good

  • Moderators
  • 1,155 posts

Posted 30 April 2015 - 01:42 PM

I got as far as the "credentials" and just lost it... whooo, my aching sides. If I got "credentials" does that mean I'd be a card-carrying witch instead of self-professed? Would I get fussed at for pulling my witch card? Will it fit in the same pocket as my poetic license? Oh... oh man... okay going to read the rest now.


:rofl:

RSKHFMY


#47 CailinRua

CailinRua

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 171 posts

Posted 30 April 2015 - 03:40 PM

Feeding frenzy.


Yep, why cant the forum be this active on all the threads? haha. And here I am just wanting to know what he has to say about bilocation.

Edited to add: Because his opinion on my or anyone elses path doesnt really affect it at all, I'm having a hard time feeling offended or bothered that he doesnt like curses. He presented his opinion in a presumptuous way maybe, but then so did everyone else. Anyway, Im just going to make some popcorn and observe, because why not.

Edited by CailinRua, 30 April 2015 - 03:50 PM.

  • 0

#48 Guest_monsnoleedra_*

Guest_monsnoleedra_*
  • Guests

Posted 30 April 2015 - 06:03 PM

Hm, I suppose we'll never know what his response will be now as he is flagged as a guest and all other info is gone. I suppose he found what his cost was via this thread though I imagine it was not what he expected or calculated it would be. Still does leave one to wonder what he might have replied with.

From my perspective a sad loss regardless of what position or perspective might have been presented. I had looked forward to his response and what it might have generated.

Edited by monsnoleedra, 30 April 2015 - 06:05 PM.

  • 0

#49 Barsa

Barsa

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 106 posts

Posted 30 April 2015 - 06:21 PM

I don't particularly feel a sad loss. I've heard his kind of perspectives more than I haven't.
  • 0
"Sweet are the uses of adversity, which, like the toad, ugly and venomous, wears yet a precious jewel in his head;
And this our life, exempt from public haunt, finds tongues in trees, books in the running brooks, sermons in stones, and good in every thing."

#50 ArcticWitch

ArcticWitch

    Senior Member

  • Former Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 708 posts

Posted 30 April 2015 - 07:03 PM

Feeding frenzy.

----
Only because he chose to chum the waters. ;)

  • 0

#51 Ravenshaw

Ravenshaw

    Life is good

  • Moderators
  • 1,155 posts

Posted 30 April 2015 - 07:57 PM

I didn't realize "guest" was an option anymore.... huh

RSKHFMY


#52 Guest_monsnoleedra_*

Guest_monsnoleedra_*
  • Guests

Posted 30 April 2015 - 08:33 PM

I don't particularly feel a sad loss. I've heard his kind of perspectives more than I haven't.



Truthfully I do in that if you can't repute their position and perspective then it questions ones own beliefs and perspective in my opinion. It's easy to use vulgarity, blanket refusals, broad stroke reasoning to state why you think a person is wrong or their logic is questionable. Yet to be able to defend your position and justify why suggests your own beliefs and perspective have been given though and deep pondering about why to me. Otherwise your own argument becomes as shallow as the position your trying to refute and is based solely off the "I believe it is right there for it is right!" Which to me if you use that system to prove the correctness and rightness of your though ensures the one your arguing against is equally correct and right in their beliefs and thoughts.

Sadly at one time that was the way of arguing ones point and counter-point within Paganism and Occultism but seems lost today. Of course just my own opinion based upon what I've seen over and over the past ten to fifteen years now.

  • 0

#53 Guest_monsnoleedra_*

Guest_monsnoleedra_*
  • Guests

Posted 30 April 2015 - 08:35 PM

I didn't realize "guest" was an option anymore.... huh



Truthfully I'm not sure its so much an option as it is a means of holding thread construction and stability vice loosing links. Database construction gets really screwed up when you start deleting multiple entries in multiple paged threads.

  • 0

#54 Solanaceae

Solanaceae

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,177 posts

Posted 30 April 2015 - 09:09 PM

Ug, why do people come here, stir stuff up and then refuse to defend themselves. I have seen this happen a few times now. It is disapointing.
  • 0

Some are born to sweet delight,

Some are born to endless night.

 

(Fragments from "Auguries of Innocence") William Blake


#55 Barsa

Barsa

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 106 posts

Posted 30 April 2015 - 09:09 PM

Truthfully I do in that if you can't repute their position and perspective then it questions ones own beliefs and perspective in my opinion. It's easy to use vulgarity, blanket refusals, broad stroke reasoning to state why you think a person is wrong or their logic is questionable. Yet to be able to defend your position and justify why suggests your own beliefs and perspective have been given though and deep pondering about why to me. Otherwise your own argument becomes as shallow as the position your trying to refute and is based solely off the "I believe it is right there for it is right!" Which to me if you use that system to prove the correctness and rightness of your though ensures the one your arguing against is equally correct and right in their beliefs and thoughts.

Sadly at one time that was the way of arguing ones point and counter-point within Paganism and Occultism but seems lost today. Of course just my own opinion based upon what I've seen over and over the past ten to fifteen years now.



I understand what you mean, I just think that in the beginning of this thread, people were pretty good about stating how their beliefs differ from his, rather than them being a blanket refusal. I'm sure every witch on here has at multiple occasions had to defend why they believe it can be necessary to harm someone via curse/hex, and this was just another one of those times. I feel he got defensive and angered at the fact that there were so many replying to his opinions that he felt like he was being attacked on both sides, when really I think everyone (mostly at the beginning) did a good job of representing their views. Of course it degraded a little toward the end lol but I mean really... why not have fun about it.

  • 0
"Sweet are the uses of adversity, which, like the toad, ugly and venomous, wears yet a precious jewel in his head;
And this our life, exempt from public haunt, finds tongues in trees, books in the running brooks, sermons in stones, and good in every thing."

#56 Guest_monsnoleedra_*

Guest_monsnoleedra_*
  • Guests

Posted 30 April 2015 - 10:03 PM

I understand what you mean, I just think that in the beginning of this thread, people were pretty good about stating how their beliefs differ from his, rather than them being a blanket refusal. I'm sure every witch on here has at multiple occasions had to defend why they believe it can be necessary to harm someone via curse/hex, and this was just another one of those times. I feel he got defensive and angered at the fact that there were so many replying to his opinions that he felt like he was being attacked on both sides, when really I think everyone (mostly at the beginning) did a good job of representing their views. Of course it degraded a little toward the end lol but I mean really... why not have fun about it.



I don't disagree and concur with your conclusions as well. I just figure if one can find value in something like D. J. Conway, Silver Ravenwolf or Edain McCoy's writings then i'd be curious to see how he would defend or justify his position and conclusions. Figure for my part the way a person presents and defends their position gives me many clues as to how they analyze things and see the world about them. Granted, for me, he lost a lot of implied or assumed credit / authority when he tried to use the CIA as a credential and source of authority. To be truthful though, I was also curious to see how he would incorporate that aspect as well.

  • 0

#57 Caps

Caps

    Phytokinesist

  • Moderators
  • 1,095 posts

Posted 01 May 2015 - 12:06 AM

Truthfully I'm not sure its so much an option as it is a means of holding thread construction and stability vice loosing links. Database construction gets really screwed up when you start deleting multiple entries in multiple paged threads.

Also provides good reference material for other people considering joining. If tthey're unsure about it then maybe some of our responses here will help them better understand the community. Definitely a database nightmare as well.

Edited by Caps, 01 May 2015 - 12:06 AM.

"It is the still and silent sea that drowns a man." - Old Norse proverb

"It is better to be a warrior in a garden than a gardener in a war."

#58 RoseRed

RoseRed

    . . . Not a big believer in . . . cowinkydink ;)

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2,460 posts

Posted 01 May 2015 - 01:27 PM

oh guys, thank you for my morning laugh. LMAO

Wow! Stargates, Redes and CIA (even!), oh my!

  • 0
When my wings get tired I grab my broom.

#59 Lilitia

Lilitia

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 295 posts

Posted 01 May 2015 - 06:47 PM

I seriously needed that too, RR!

I laughed. Hard.

I especially loved the part about psychic shielding as opposed to fear to protect one's self...because psychic shielding totally works to keep all the big, 300lb convicted murderers from kicking the shit out of 130lb, 5'9" me at work at the prison, not the fact that they are scared shitless of me.

Not to mention Star Gates and CIA stuff, woot! Made me giggle :roflhard:

  • 0
My mama used to tell me 'bout these
Broke, poachin' ass bitches in these streets,
So many people wanna see me fall,
Invite me to the table but don't want me to eat at all.... ---- Z'Ro the Crooked

#60 Aurelian

Aurelian

    The Devils Enabler

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,561 posts

Posted 01 May 2015 - 07:06 PM

You'd think someone with his 'credentials,' experience and *cough* knowledge wouldn't be such a bitch and abandon ship at the first sign of tempest. Really, though, if I wanted to role play, I'd go play D&D, not post on TW.

Good riddance!

  • 0
"The truth about the world, he said, is that anything is possible. Had you not seen it from birth and thereby bled it of its strangeness it would appear to you for what it is, a hat trick in a medicine show, a fevered dream, a trance bepopulate with chimeras having neither analogue nor precedent, an itinerant carnival, a migratory tentshow whose ultimate destination after many a pitch in many a mudded field is unspeakable and calamitous beyond reckoning." - Cormac McCarthy