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The Bible, psalms and magic

Bible Psalms Occult

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#1 CrowSnakeHareToad

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Posted 13 March 2015 - 12:48 AM

Just thought I'd start a discussion on the bible and magic. I just wondered how you all feel about using the psalms from the Bible, if you use them at all that is. If you don't, it would be interesting to hear your views on it. Personally I have used the psalms for a long time now. I feel they hold a lot of power and work great for magic. I have had a lot of people frown at me when I mention the bible and witchcraft. I know its a common tool for the traditional witch but I have noticed a lot are still unfamiliar of the blending of this.
One thing that I have thought about is, yes witches did use the bible, but all be it they were witches they were normally women and men of the bible. So how do you explain, say a pagan using the Bible? How do you feel about that? Is an interesting thought. Personally, I feel there is enough evidence to at least suggest things like the psalms pre-date Christianity. Theres also the cas that Christianity would of been blended into the practices of those who practiced the old ways, kind of as a disguise out of force, and we are then left with a different "flavour" of witchcraft that is left, I think this is the case with hoodoo. But a lot of the old pellars were women of God, and the holy trinity was employed with great faith.

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#2 Guest_monsnoleedra_*

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Posted 13 March 2015 - 02:11 AM

I don't use them myself but the usage of biblical power and belief is a core aspect of the Pennsylvania Dutch Pow Wow magics. http://lancasterpa.c...ping/hex-signs/ Let me add that as to specific meaning I can't answer there as it seemed to be both variable to area and also protected by word of mouth and need to know.

Lots of both power words, power tracts even power shapes and forms are still used in lots of Granny type magics as well as many folk type practices in the Mountain areas.

Edited by monsnoleedra, 13 March 2015 - 02:17 AM.

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#3 bewitchingredhead

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Posted 13 March 2015 - 06:14 AM

Just thought I'd start a discussion on the bible and magic. I just wondered how you all feel about using the psalms from the Bible, if you use them at all that is. If you don't, it would be interesting to hear your views on it. Personally I have used the psalms for a long time now. I feel they hold a lot of power and work great for magic. I have had a lot of people frown at me when I mention the bible and witchcraft. I know its a common tool for the traditional witch but I have noticed a lot are still unfamiliar of the blending of this.
One thing that I have thought about is, yes witches did use the bible, but all be it they were witches they were normally women and men of the bible. So how do you explain, say a pagan using the Bible? How do you feel about that? Is an interesting thought. Personally, I feel there is enough evidence to at least suggest things like the psalms pre-date Christianity. Theres also the cas that Christianity would of been blended into the practices of those who practiced the old ways, kind of as a disguise out of force, and we are then left with a different "flavour" of witchcraft that is left, I think this is the case with hoodoo. But a lot of the old pellars were women of God, and the holy trinity was employed with great faith.


I think I can offer my own personal perspective, since I was technically a Christian growing up (although I prefer to say raised for cerain reasons) and I practice Hoodoo pretty regularly.

When I first started my path I was super stoked bc it involved no religion, no dogma, etc. Then I was introduced to Hoodoo and although I quite loved the premise of the actual practice, internally I groaned and was even mildly pissed regarding the thought of having to use anything within the Bible. My adversion to the indoctrination of Christianity was/is pretty strong, having been raised Southern Baptist (which is I suppose better than my mom's side of the family, who are Pentacostal). But, as I'm sure you know, it's quite common within Hoodoo- blessing/activating Mojo bags, certain candle spells, hexes, etc. Although reluctant, eventually I did incorporate specific ones for certain spells, but I'd replace (still do actually) the word Lord or God w/what I feel is a comfortable replacement that aligns w/my specific beliefs.

Then I got this wakeup call one day...as in the thought literally seemed to smack me upside my own head for not considering it to begin with- I don't view the Bible as anything other than a book. A mythological book w/a lot of fables/lessons, just like any other set of mythological books/poems. When I was able to see it that way, then many of the Psalms used in Hoodoo I viewed the same way I do an incantation for a spell. In fact, there are some powerful words in many Psalms that do not need to be read in their entirety (like the entire Psalm for example) that bear no resemblence to any dogma within the Bible, or require one to cringe at the thought of using it.

Like you said rather simply, "they hold a lot of power". Well, words are just words unless you give them power. There's also a school of thought regarding the power they hold bc they've been used repeatedly and the more energy directed towards them, they gain more power.

However, I repectfully disagree w/you regaring Hoodoo being a disguise of those who practiced the "old ways" or having come about as a new "flavor" of witchcraft. There is a distinct history to Hoodoo, and if you're interested I can point you to some helpful resources.

And yes, the Psalms predate Christianity- bc they're in the Old Testament, therefore a part of Judaism, which does predate Christianity. ;)

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#4 bewitchingredhead

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Posted 13 March 2015 - 06:17 AM

*Eta- I really only use Psalms or anything else from the Bible when doing Hoodoo spells. I don't really use them in my "traditional" witchcraft practices.
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I see you're getting your degree in art of the obvious~myself
Without music life would be a mistake~ Friedrich Nietzsche
Immorality: The morality of those who are having a better time~ H.L. Mencken
When nature has work to be done, she creates a genius to do it~ Ralph Waldo Emerson
We cannot teach people anything; we can only help them discover it within themselves~ Galileo

#5 Aria

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Posted 13 March 2015 - 09:05 AM

In Italian witchcraft the use of psalms is very, very common.
I should say that, traditionally, they are used in a very fragmentary way. Italian witchcraft is a thing of synchretism, and it is not unusual to find verses from a particular psalm mixed with little pagan-themed stories and folk magic.

When the neo-pagan revival came about, one of the main debates in Italian witchcraft circles was about the appropriatedness of using christian symbolisms and words. I think most of Italian witches nowaydays do an instrumental use of psalms, that is, they use them as other words and formulations of power.
Personally, I do use psalms in my practice, for two reasons. First, they are linked in my memory to my witness and experience of Italian folk magic, so in a way they put me in line with the tradition. Many of the practices I have been passed use christian references and appellatives, and often I see no use in changing them. There is no obligation to do so, but you could hear Italian witches referring to the divine feminine both as 'the Good Lady of the Game' or 'the Mother of the Verb'. Second, I just thing some psalms, and christian wording in general, are beautiful and sound great.

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#6 Izzie

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Posted 13 March 2015 - 09:56 AM

I do use the bible in Hoodoo, but I use it like a grimoire. I feel they are like words of power because they've been spoken so many times over the years. If someone has apprehension using the bible, I remind them some of the best curses come from the old testament. That being said, I do not subscribe to any dogma. I don't read the bible like xtians do. Hoodoo does have an interesting history, but that's for another thread.
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#7 Pikkusisko

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Posted 13 March 2015 - 10:14 AM

I have on occasion for much the same reasons shared here. If it weren't for the fact pretty much everyone witch or mundie would have used the Bible in some form or another where I'm from then I might feel differently about it. I don't expect someone with a recent ancestral history involving conflict with Judaism/Christianity to use it, there are plenty of other options.
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#8 CrowSnakeHareToad

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Posted 13 March 2015 - 11:51 AM

I completely agree with the wake up call you had. A book with stories, lessons and words of power . A really good way to put it



I think I can offer my own personal perspective, since I was technically a Christian growing up (although I prefer to say raised for cerain reasons) and I practice Hoodoo pretty regularly. When I first started my path I was super stoked bc it involved no religion, no dogma, etc. Then I was introduced to Hoodoo and although I quite loved the premise of the actual practice, internally I groaned and was even mildly pissed regarding the thought of having to use anything within the Bible. My adversion to the indoctrination of Christianity was/is pretty strong, having been raised Southern Baptist (which is I suppose better than my mom's side of the family, who are Pentacostal). But, as I'm sure you know, it's quite common within Hoodoo- blessing/activating Mojo bags, certain candle spells, hexes, etc. Although reluctant, eventually I did incorporate specific ones for certain spells, but I'd replace (still do actually) the word Lord or God w/what I feel is a comfortable replacement that aligns w/my specific beliefs. Then I got this wakeup call one day...as in the thought literally seemed to smack me upside my own head for not considering it to begin with- I don't view the Bible as anything other than a book. A mythological book w/a lot of fables/lessons, just like any other set of mythological books/poems. When I was able to see it that way, then many of the Psalms used in Hoodoo I viewed the same way I do an incantation for a spell. In fact, there are some powerful words in many Psalms that do not need to be read in their entirety (like the entire Psalm for example) that bear no resemblence to any dogma within the Bible, or require one to cringe at the thought of using it. Like you said rather simply, "they hold a lot of power". Well, words are just words unless you give them power. There's also a school of thought regarding the power they hold bc they've been used repeatedly and the more energy directed towards them, they gain more power. However, I repectfully disagree w/you regaring Hoodoo being a disguise of those who practiced the "old ways" or having come about as a new "flavor" of witchcraft. There is a distinct history to Hoodoo, and if you're interested I can point you to some helpful resources. And yes, the Psalms predate Christianity- bc they're in the Old Testament, therefore a part of Judaism, which does predate Christianity. ;)


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#9 RoseRed

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Posted 13 March 2015 - 03:28 PM

I think some words have power inherent to themselves. We can access that power to manipulate it to our Will. Most things don't - but the words (or things that do...).

My Grandmother was a very Catholic Witch. When a land is conquered and a religion is shoved down the throats of the people - they adapt. Look at how Christianity was forced on the slaves back in the day. That's part of where HooDoo came from. They took what they had and made it into something quite powerful.

I walked the line of Christian Witch for more years than I care to admit to. :jackoff: :blush: I didn't realize it at the time but I used the bible as one would a Grimoire. It's a cool thing to do if one can break the shackles of their childhood. It can be a really cool divination tool as well. The whole 'ask the book a question and randomly ope' it can be really accurate (to the point of creepy).

People found a way to make it work. Regardless of anyone's personal views or difficulties from being raised in any of the Denominations, distaste for the idea (my Grandmother wouldn't mix the two) - there are people that found a way to make it work.

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#10 Autumn Moon

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Posted 13 March 2015 - 06:17 PM

Just thought I'd start a discussion on the bible and magic. I just wondered how you all feel about using the psalms from the Bible, if you use them at all that is. If you don't, it would be interesting to hear your views on it. Personally I have used the psalms for a long time now. I feel they hold a lot of power and work great for magic. I have had a lot of people frown at me when I mention the bible and witchcraft. I know its a common tool for the traditional witch but I have noticed a lot are still unfamiliar of the blending of this.
One thing that I have thought about is, yes witches did use the bible, but all be it they were witches they were normally women and men of the bible. So how do you explain, say a pagan using the Bible? How do you feel about that? Is an interesting thought. Personally, I feel there is enough evidence to at least suggest things like the psalms pre-date Christianity. Theres also the cas that Christianity would of been blended into the practices of those who practiced the old ways, kind of as a disguise out of force, and we are then left with a different "flavour" of witchcraft that is left, I think this is the case with hoodoo. But a lot of the old pellars were women of God, and the holy trinity was employed with great faith.

____
I find that one statement is rather polarized ie. "a lot of the old Pellars were women of God''. From what I understand there were many male pellars, perhaps even more than female. This whole witchcraft is the venue of women is so redundant and boring (sigh), reminds me of Z.P. where she states that men are not spiritual, which is a paradoxical and ludicrous statement, since a man created modern wicca which is base on ceremonial magic which was created by men.

Re: the rest of the post, I was baptized Christian but never had to attend Church, but did have to say the Lords prayer in school daily, along with God save the Queen, lol. I do not employ psalms or the Bible in my workings, as I am not comfortable with it for some reason. This can also lead into working with Saints. I've only had one Saint work well with me, and this Saint had only been converted to Christianity for a short period of time before being killed. The Saint tried to escape, but was caught, so not a martyr. This Saint was, a number of years ago de-sainted or whatever the term is by the Catholics. Maybe for those reasons, this Saint works well for/ with me. But, other than that I do not employ Christianity or the Bible (Old or New) in my workings.

Edited by Autumn Moon, 13 March 2015 - 07:32 PM.

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#11 bewitchingredhead

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Posted 13 March 2015 - 06:57 PM

I think some words have power inherent to themselves. We can access that power to manipulate it to our Will. Most things don't - but the words (or things that do...).

My Grandmother was a very Catholic Witch. When a land is conquered and a religion is shoved down the throats of the people - they adapt. Look at how Christianity was forced on the slaves back in the day. That's part of where HooDoo came from. They took what they had and made it into something quite powerful.

I walked the line of Christian Witch for more years than I care to admit to. :jackoff: :blush: I didn't realize it at the time but I used the bible as one would a Grimoire. It's a cool thing to do if one can break the shackles of their childhood. It can be a really cool divination tool as well. The whole 'ask the book a question and randomly ope' it can be really accurate (to the point of creepy).

People found a way to make it work. Regardless of anyone's personal views or difficulties from being raised in any of the Denominations, distaste for the idea (my Grandmother wouldn't mix the two) - there are people that found a way to make it work.

Well fuck, now I'm curious and wanna give that a try, LOL!!

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I see you're getting your degree in art of the obvious~myself
Without music life would be a mistake~ Friedrich Nietzsche
Immorality: The morality of those who are having a better time~ H.L. Mencken
When nature has work to be done, she creates a genius to do it~ Ralph Waldo Emerson
We cannot teach people anything; we can only help them discover it within themselves~ Galileo

#12 Pikkusisko

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Posted 13 March 2015 - 07:21 PM

The whole 'ask the book a question and randomly ope' it can be really accurate (to the point of creepy).


I have an old Bible I used to use for bibliomancy which gaves plain creepy (and inaccurate) readings. I need to cleanse than thing sometime.

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'There's rules to this stuff. Wishing an event to be changes elements before and after it. Memories will be destroyed, babies will not be born, potential worlds could be evaporated by your wish.' - Prismo


#13 CrowSnakeHareToad

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Posted 13 March 2015 - 09:45 PM

____
I find that one statement is rather polarized ie. "a lot of the old Pellars were women of God''. From what I understand there were many male pellars, perhaps even more than female. This whole witchcraft is the venue of women is so redundant and boring (sigh), reminds me of Z.P. where she states that men are not spiritual, which is a paradoxical and ludicrous statement, since a man created modern wicca which is base on ceremonial magic which was created by men.





Sorry, I am saying this from a mans point of view and know very much about men in wicca, I'm a male witch who used to be Wiccan for 6 years, I was actually just watching something about a pellar women and had pellar women on my mind. Maybe I should of put man and woman, as a male practicing witch, very interested in the practices of the pellar men and women. But to be honest I have read more about the pellar women so I don't think you should be so sensitive to this, I was just referring to the females because I have read up on the femals so couldn't really speak from the males of pellar. Not because there were no pellar men, I know there was. I'm male, and practice witchcraft and I am secure in the fact men and women are witches. I know that, most intelligent witches know that.

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#14 CrowSnakeHareToad

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Posted 13 March 2015 - 09:52 PM

am loving reading these posts, all very interesting
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#15 Autumn Moon

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Posted 13 March 2015 - 10:43 PM

Sorry, I am saying this from a mans point of view and know very much about men in wicca, I'm a male witch who used to be Wiccan for 6 years, I was actually just watching something about a pellar women and had pellar women on my mind. Maybe I should of put man and woman, as a male practicing witch, very interested in the practices of the pellar men and women. But to be honest I have read more about the pellar women so I don't think you should be so sensitive to this, I was just referring to the females because I have read up on the femals so couldn't really speak from the males of pellar. Not because there were no pellar men, I know there was. I'm male, and practice witchcraft and I am secure in the fact men and women are witches. I know that, most intelligent witches know that.

______
A man's point of view? I think, as a man, one should be more cognizant of misandry and the dichotomy between men and women that exists certain circles. Sensitive, I don't think so, but I am aware. However, you coming from wicca, I can understand where you are at. Please don't take this as an attack on you, it is not.

Do you work with Saints?

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#16 Caps

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Posted 14 March 2015 - 01:00 AM

In my observations..."witchCRAFT" as I see it, is often practiced by Christians in the form of faith healing, house blessings, protection, and banishing spirits. Do they realize they're practicing witchcraft? No, not most of the time. Do they recite phrases from the book of Psalms when cleansing houses etc.? Sure. Like someone above mentioned, they see the words and phrases they recite, and the power that they are using as being sourced outside of themselves...I do not see it this way, I view the power of witchcraft as coming from the one using it. It's almost like something I heard a Wiccan say recently "This place is well protected, I have tons of crystals everywhere!" ...yet the apartment was scurrying with incoherent spiritual residue because it wasn't actually being protected from anything. Funny how a fiery and mean spirited Christian can do a better job at proactive witchcraft than a lazy and ignorant Wiccan with their crystals.

Personally I find a lot of wise philosophical thoughts in the books of Psalms and Proverbs, I certainly take time to read them occasionally, as well as read some of the Surahs in the Quran. Do I use them in witchcraft? Not typically but if I ever needed to I would. They can certainly be powerful tools against the right foe, or can even be used to gain the favor of a potential ally. For the most part I tend to distance myself as much as possible from any lore and myth associated with those religions. Out of spite.

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#17 CrowSnakeHareToad

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Posted 14 March 2015 - 01:56 AM

______
A man's point of view? I think, as a man, one should be more cognizant of misandry and the dichotomy between men and women that exists certain circles. Sensitive, I don't think so, but I am aware. However, you coming from wicca, I can understand where you are at. Please don't take this as an attack on you, it is not.

Do you work with Saints?






I just meant a little over sensitive to me missing out "male", I do understand the divisions and difficulties there has been in the whole male witch, female witch. But we could be getting a little silly when we feel we can't miss out certain things, having to cover everything we say, make sure we mention the males too. As I explained, I had only read into the practices of female pellars, I know of a few males but not really looked into whether they used the bible or not. They probably did but that's actually why I didnt speak on that. That's the only reason and that I had the pellar woman I was just looking into on my mind.

But I get where you are coming from if you thought I was an ignorant woman or man, thinking there were only female witches, that males couldn't be pellars, do magic or seek to become spiritual. That's definitely not where I'm coming from.

I did work with the saints a little when I practiced hoodoo, i worked with the archangels a lot too, mainly St micheal the archangels. But within my traditional craft I do not work with the saints.

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#18 Pikkusisko

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Posted 14 March 2015 - 08:15 AM

This is off topic, but I would love to see a topic which just discusses the male side of witchcraft through the years in its many forms. I feel like in todays society we are taught to focus on the female side of things. If there were even a scale to tip in the first place, then it's definitely starting to tip the other way. Would love to just read the thoughts of some of the male witches on here.
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#19 bewitchingredhead

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Posted 14 March 2015 - 09:00 AM

This is off topic, but I would love to see a topic which just discusses the male side of witchcraft through the years in its many forms. I feel like in todays society we are taught to focus on the female side of things. If there were even a scale to tip in the first place, then it's definitely starting to tip the other way. Would love to just read the thoughts of some of the male witches on here.

Make a thread! :)

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I see you're getting your degree in art of the obvious~myself
Without music life would be a mistake~ Friedrich Nietzsche
Immorality: The morality of those who are having a better time~ H.L. Mencken
When nature has work to be done, she creates a genius to do it~ Ralph Waldo Emerson
We cannot teach people anything; we can only help them discover it within themselves~ Galileo

#20 RoseRed

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Posted 14 March 2015 - 04:39 PM

In my observations..."witchCRAFT" as I see it, is often practiced by Christians in the form of faith healing, house blessings, protection, and banishing spirits. Do they realize they're practicing witchcraft? No, not most of the time. Do they recite phrases from the book of Psalms when cleansing houses etc.? Sure. Like someone above mentioned, they see the words and phrases they recite,it and the power that they are using as being sourced outside of themselves...I do not see it this way, I view the power of witchcraft as coming from the one using . It's almost like something I heard a Wiccan say recently "This place is well protected, I have tons of crystals everywhere!" ...yet the apartment was scurrying with incoherent spiritual residue because it wasn't actually being protected from anything. Funny how a fiery and mean spirited Christian can do a better job at proactive witchcraft than a lazy and ignorant Wiccan with their crystals.

Personally I find a lot of wise philosophical thoughts in the books of Psalms and Proverbs, I certainly take time to read them occasionally, as well as read some of the Surahs in the Quran. Do I use them in witchcraft? Not typically but if I ever needed to I would. They can certainly be powerful tools against the right foe, or can even be used to gain the favor of a potential ally. For the most part I tend to distance myself as much as possible from any lore and myth associated with those religions. Out of spite.


+1

Awesome post, dude!

The underlined part - I simply see as different ways of harnessing magics and currents. To each his own.

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