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Can a man ever be truly a witch?


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#1 ClockworkGhost

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Posted 19 February 2015 - 09:54 AM

I may well be the end of my ancestral line of occultists. My mother, and her mother before her, were both kitchen witches at the very least. While much of my magick simply comes from sexual abuse and extreme isolation, my mother definitely added to my perception of magick from a very early age. I have a sister, but she never took up any magickal paradigm - she is far too rooted in the mundane. She was a police officer until the sight of one too many murdered children gave her PTSD. Now she runs her own fitness empire and pushes herbal supplements.

So does my line end with me? My own children are still very young, and I discuss the occult with them from time to time as an option to the Roman Catholicism my ex-wife drums into them. My son has said many times that YHVH isn't real, but his absolute faith in Father Christmas does worry me. So I wonder, who teaches my daughter Trad Craft when she wishes to learn the truth of her ancestors?

I have the utmost respect for women - you wouldn't think it with the history I have, but every prostitute I spent time with I befriended in some small way, even if just through giving them a real massage, or listening to their story. I am infinitely closer to my mother than my father, and find it much easier to befriend women than I do men. I have spent years developing a relationship with the entity whose 44 names I will not repeat here, but who I know as Lilith - this relationship hospitalising me on two separate occasions. There is no other woman for me, I have taken a vow of complete and utter chastity as a result of my workings with her.

But what of the daughters of Lilith? I will never be one, being male I will only know her in a limited way - her magick is simply not accessible to me. I wonder if this is the same for Trad Craft? Sure, I can do witchcraft related magick, but am I simply a shaman who practices hedge riding? So I wonder, can a man ever truly be a witch?

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#2 Caps

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Posted 19 February 2015 - 10:33 AM

Some people do magic while some people are magic.
"It is the still and silent sea that drowns a man." - Old Norse proverb

"It is better to be a warrior in a garden than a gardener in a war."

#3 Caps

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Posted 19 February 2015 - 11:07 AM

I think I can better answer what I mean by this:

I'm inferring that you're saying that your children are males and you're concerned that they may not have the connection to the abilities associated with witchcraft. This may or may not be so, but I highly doubt that gender has much to do with it. It's one thing for parents to share their spiritual beliefs with their children, be it through a major religion or encouraging them to explore the spiritual paganism of their ancestors....but not everyone has it. Throughout history there are plenty of men who were associated with the magical arts, some more notorious than others. It is true that the Germanic word wicce implies females but this is misleading, and I believe that much of the modern gender-focused confusion is caused by New Agers and Wiccans. Witchcraft wasn't isolated to one area of the world, one of the earliest mentions of (sorcery, or casting spells) in written history is in the Code of Hammurabi. Consider that even the New Age religion of Wicca itself was started by a man. Some groups of ceremonial magicians even (although I'm aware they would be disturbed to be called witches) are only male organizations.

Plenty of people become interested in the magical arts, and may gain some proficiency with it...I could certainly call many of them witches...but very few people have the gift naturally. This isn't a gender-specific phenomenon.

"It is the still and silent sea that drowns a man." - Old Norse proverb

"It is better to be a warrior in a garden than a gardener in a war."

#4 ClockworkGhost

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Posted 19 February 2015 - 12:28 PM

Some people do magic while some people are magic.


Couldn't agree with you more. My absolute and unwavering faith that I not only follow a magickal paradigm, but actually live a magickal life has been the one thing keeping me going many times in the past. I am 100% certain in the existence of magick, and my ability to manipulate it - this sounds trite to so many ears, how can someone be so sure of something so difficult to fully explain? It just fits so perfectly into my views of reality and the cosmos, and I have actually found scientific ways to prove it's absolute existence through quantum theory :witch_bounce:

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#5 Ravenshaw

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Posted 19 February 2015 - 02:12 PM

I've met plenty of male witches, all walks, paths, and talent levels. Yes a man can be a witch.

RSKHFMY


#6 Nikki

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Posted 19 February 2015 - 02:29 PM

Agreed, Ravenshaw.

Gender means nothing.

A Witch is as a Witch does.

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Posted 19 February 2015 - 02:38 PM

I think perhaps a better question would be "How many males identify as witches?" That would probably be a pretty valid qualifier as to whether men actually think they can be witches.

I seldom encounter males who identify as witches most identify as hedge riders, shaman or shamanic like practitioners, Wildcrafters, high or ceremonial magicians, etc. But very seldom do they self-identify as witches. I say greenwitch or hedgerider or shamanic practitioner myself but go to quite a bit to separate greenwitch from kitchen and common assumption of what a greenwitch is. I know family wise they would have told you I am not a witch, one reason being I can not be tied by the blood though I've been taught some of the female mysteries in that regard. Being tied by the blood I think is what is being referred to when the OP speaks about the daughter's of Lilith.

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#8 Nikki

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Posted 19 February 2015 - 04:24 PM

Good points MonSno, but we have male witches here who practice witchcraft. I don't think they refer to themselves as something 'other' ( could be wrong)
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#9 fallenklown

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Posted 19 February 2015 - 07:14 PM

Honestly self identification is relevant to the situation. Be it witch, sorcerer, mage what have you. I have even gone so far as well rounded agnostic category depending on whom I am speaking with or about. Some males believe that witch has a feminine quality to it. Which is understandable to an extent. Some simply have a want for the recognition of the term.
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#10 Roanna

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Posted 19 February 2015 - 09:22 PM

I have actually found scientific ways to prove it's absolute existence through quantum theory :witch_bounce:


I'm sure that being the first person ever in the whole world to do this you'd like to share the details with your new community...??

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#11 Caps

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Posted 20 February 2015 - 01:06 AM

This also brings to mind the practices of Seiðr from the old Norse religions. It was supposed to be practiced by both genders, but males who practiced this form of sorcery were committing an extreme social taboo because it was considered "unmanly."
"It is the still and silent sea that drowns a man." - Old Norse proverb

"It is better to be a warrior in a garden than a gardener in a war."

#12 ClockworkGhost

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Posted 20 February 2015 - 01:27 AM

I'm sure that being the first person ever in the whole world to do this you'd like to share the details with your new community...??


I'm not the first person to prove the existence of magick using cutting edge science - there have been plenty of brilliant scientists who also believed strongly in the existence of magick and used science and magick side by side. For example, did you know...

Five scientific geniuses who also believed in magick:

1. Galilaeo - Galilaeo practiced Astrology, and taught it to medical school students at the University of Padua.

2. Isaac Newton - Newton spent half his life obsessed with Alchemy. He actually became Warden of the Mint in 1700 - the Royal Mint being responsible for the manufacture of all coins used by the United Kingdom.

3. Tycho Brahe - Brahe created and built tiny robots (in the 16th century) to convince locals that he had magical powers. This wasnt just a deception however, Brahe believed he was a sorcerer, and publically lectured against anyone who believed that Astrology was fake. Brahe became so synonymous with magick that an entire calendar of magickal days was made in his honour.

4. Carl Linnaeus - Linnaeus devoted a whole section of his zoological tome Systema Naturae to magickal animals. This section included the Hydra, Satyrus, and the Phoenix. Although he later debunked the hydra, and considered pelicans to be mythical creatures, he claimed to have seen a troglodyte, unicorns, and believed strongly in mermaids.

5. Paracelsus - Paracelsus believed that it was possible to transmute metals using magick. He also used magick in conjunction with medicine, and believed that magick was just another science that people didn't understand.

You could argue that each case is simply someone believing in the scientific ignorance of their time, but you have to remember that science is constantly evolving, and the things that people consider magick one day are becoming trusted and accepted science the next. But, to get back to the question, my own studies are more continuing on from the work of Chaos Magician and quantum physicist Peter Carroll. I have linked his site below.

http://www.specularium.org/

I personally am using 10D space to show that magick has to exist in quantum theory in order to ensure completeness in the theory as a whole. As 10D space includes all possible different sets of physics, it must also include magick as a system of laws - not doing so makes 10D space incomplete, and therefore fallible. As this is a Trad Craft site, and not a experimental physics forum, I wont bore you by going into quatum theory in depth. It is definitely something you may wish to explore though, if such things interest you.

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#13 Mountain Witch

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Posted 20 February 2015 - 01:40 AM

Can a man be a witch? It's a matter of semantics. Man. Witch. Woman. Sorcerer.

Personally, I believe anyone can be anything they want. They shouldn't limit themselves to the poor extent of language.

For purposes of action nothing is more useful than narrowness of thought combined with energy of will.
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#14 Solanaceae

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Posted 20 February 2015 - 02:24 AM

I'm not the first person to prove the existence of magick using cutting edge science - there have been plenty of brilliant scientists who also believed strongly in the existence of magick and used science and magick side by side. For example, did you know...

Five scientific geniuses who also believed in magick:

1. Galilaeo - Galilaeo practiced Astrology, and taught it to medical school students at the University of Padua.

2. Isaac Newton - Newton spent half his life obsessed with Alchemy. He actually became Warden of the Mint in 1700 - the Royal Mint being responsible for the manufacture of all coins used by the United Kingdom.

3. Tycho Brahe - Brahe created and built tiny robots (in the 16th century) to convince locals that he had magical powers. This wasnt just a deception however, Brahe believed he was a sorcerer, and publically lectured against anyone who believed that Astrology was fake. Brahe became so synonymous with magick that an entire calendar of magickal days was made in his honour.

4. Carl Linnaeus - Linnaeus devoted a whole section of his zoological tome Systema Naturae to magickal animals. This section included the Hydra, Satyrus, and the Phoenix. Although he later debunked the hydra, and considered pelicans to be mythical creatures, he claimed to have seen a troglodyte, unicorns, and believed strongly in mermaids.

5. Paracelsus - Paracelsus believed that it was possible to transmute metals using magick. He also used magick in conjunction with medicine, and believed that magick was just another science that people didn't understand.

You could argue that each case is simply someone believing in the scientific ignorance of their time, but you have to remember that science is constantly evolving, and the things that people consider magick one day are becoming trusted and accepted science the next. But, to get back to the question, my own studies are more continuing on from the work of Chaos Magician and quantum physicist Peter Carroll. I have linked his site below.

http://www.specularium.org/

I personally am using 10D space to show that magick has to exist in quantum theory in order to ensure completeness in the theory as a whole. As 10D space includes all possible different sets of physics, it must also include magick as a system of laws - not doing so makes 10D space incomplete, and therefore fallible. As this is a Trad Craft site, and not a experimental physics forum, I wont bore you by going into quatum theory in depth. It is definitely something you may wish to explore though, if such things interest you.



Wow, thank you for enlightening us. I am sure none of us witches have concidered these things before. I mean, why would we be interested in science or have an understanding of quantum theory?

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#15 Caps

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Posted 20 February 2015 - 02:36 AM

:coffee:
"It is the still and silent sea that drowns a man." - Old Norse proverb

"It is better to be a warrior in a garden than a gardener in a war."

#16 ArcticWitch

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Posted 20 February 2015 - 03:34 AM

:popcorn:
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#17 ClockworkGhost

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Posted 20 February 2015 - 03:40 AM

I'm sorry, I know I must be boring you all stupid by now with all this, but you may enjoy this video - it explains ten dimensional space rather well, along with how you can conceivably fold a dimension through the one below it, thus causing inter-dimensional shift. Remember that this is all extremely cutting edge theory, and 10D space is even now being superceeded by M-Theory, which is the unifying theory for the five current superstring theories. I only include this here because it may help others see how 10D space, and M-Theory through expansion on the concept, can actually show a valid and logical use of physics to explain magick. Again, I apologise for how badly this thread has drifted already, I will endeavour to not allow such drift in my future threads.


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#18 Nikki

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Posted 20 February 2015 - 04:42 AM

Honestly self identification is relevant to the situation. Be it witch, sorcerer, mage what have you. I have even gone so far as well rounded agnostic category depending on whom I am speaking with or about. Some males believe that witch has a feminine quality to it. Which is understandable to an extent. Some simply have a want for the recognition of the term.



What name you give it is irrelevant. The practice of witchcraft makes the determination - not the gender of the caster.
Getting hung up on semantics seems a waste of time.

LOL, Witch Doctor leaps to mind. I agree that the word Witch does have feminine undertones, in causal language, that has somehow developed overtime, but really... in the day and age, who cares? Plenty of males call themselves witches because they practice The Craft.

I'm no more or less than what I am if I label myself a Sorceress, Enchantress, Necromancer, Hedge Rider, Crone... etc.

The question is, Can a man be a Witch?
This question is posed because there's an underlying belief (if I read the OP correctly) that witches are female descendants of Lilith, of which, a male cannot be. Because of this belief, men can only be devotees of Lilith; not as powerful because he does not /cannot share Lilith's bloodline.

I suppose that if one believes this, the answer is no. A man cannot be a witch. He can only be a father to a witch, if he impregnated a daughter of Lilith with a female child.



@ClockworkGhost:
Personally, I'd love to read how you can prove your claim. I hope you won't continue use the excuse that this isn't a scientific forum to not share a your insights and this tremendous discovery as it pertains to witchcraft... because THAT IS what this forum is for.

I've heard many a Quantum Physicist in the past year say that they were CLOSE to explaining the 'secrets' but haven't found a way to prove it mathematically.

I think it would be a blast to have the next Noble Prize Winner as a TW member.

Even if you bore us.

Edited by Nikki, 20 February 2015 - 05:05 AM.

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#19 Ravenshaw

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Posted 20 February 2015 - 04:48 AM

That's not cutting edge science, nor is it proof. This is a site for witches, but saying you have proof and posting early scientists and a YouTube video are two different things.

RSKHFMY


#20 ClockworkGhost

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Posted 20 February 2015 - 05:51 AM

That's not cutting edge science, nor is it proof. This is a site for witches, but saying you have proof and posting early scientists and a YouTube video are two different things.


No worries. Okay, first lets look at what the ten dimensions of superstring theory are:

The first dimension, is that which gives us length (aka. the x-axis). A good description of a one-dimensional object is a straight line, which exists only in terms of length and has no other discernible qualities. Add to it a second dimension, the y-axis (or height), and you get an object that becomes a 2-dimensional shape (like a square).

The third dimension involves depth (the z-axis), and gives all objects a sense of area and a cross-section. The perfect example of this is a cube, which exists in three dimensions and has a length, width, depth, and hence volume. Beyond these three lie the seven dimensions which are not immediately apparent to us, but which can be still be perceived as having a direct effect on the universe and reality as we know it.

Scientists believe that the fourth dimension is time, which governs the properties of all known matter at any given point. Along with the three other dimensions, knowing an objects position in time is essential to plotting its position in the universe. The other dimensions are where the deeper possibilities come into play, and explaining their interaction with the others is where things get particularly tricky for physicists.

According to Superstring Theory, the fifth and sixth dimensions are where the notion of possible worlds arises. If we could see on through to the fifth dimension, we would see a world slightly different from our own that would give us a means of measuring the similarity and differences between our world and other possible ones.
In the sixth, we would see a plane of possible worlds, where we could compare and position all the possible universes that start with the same initial conditions as this one (i.e. the Big Bang). In theory, if you could master the fifth and sixth dimension, you could travel back in time or go to different futures.

In the seventh dimension, you have access to the possible worlds that start with different initial conditions. Whereas in the fifth and sixth, the initial conditions were the same and subsequent actions were different, here, everything is different from the very beginning of time. The eighth dimension again gives us a plane of such possible universe histories, each of which begins with different initial conditions and branches out infinitely (hence why they are called infinities).

In the ninth dimension, we can compare all the possible universe histories, starting with all the different possible laws of physics and initial conditions. In the tenth and final dimension, we arrive at the point in which everything possible and imaginable is covered. Beyond this, nothing can be imagined by us lowly mortals, which makes it the natural limitation of what we can conceive in terms of dimensions.

Now, each dimension can be traversed by folding the dimension below it through it - you travel in three dimensions through two dimensional actions (you walk from one point to another in a line), albeit through three dimensional space. Travel through time happens through space (passing from one point to another in three dimensional space takes time)- this is where the notion of spacetime comes from.

This is where things get a bit interesting. You travel through the events in an alternate reality (5th dimension) using time - this is the theory of time travel. You have to remember that linear travel is still being used in inter-dimensional travel, but the linear travel is directly proportional to the dimension you are using to travel through the dimension you are in. Things get rather more complex from this point onwards.

Sixth dimensional space is all possible universes that have the same laws of physics that we have. We then use this infinite number of conceivable possibilities to observe a universe that doesn't conform to our laws of physics, and could conceivably run entirely on the principles of witch craft. This is then reinforced by eigth dimensional space, where magick simply has to exist - this is the infinites, all possible universes running all possible systems, including all forms of magick and magickal awareness.

Ten dimensional space supports magick because magick is a system of conception, evolution, development and change. In order to have all possible universes, you must include all possible magickal universes also, its that simple.

Edited by ClockworkGhost, 20 February 2015 - 06:49 AM.

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