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OLD CHURCH


hawkwind

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There is an old church not far from where I live and this church has quite a strange history. It was built in early 1800's the preacher was a very strong and perswacive man He created a huge following but as time went on some of his teachings turned very dark and he started sexually victimizing a lot of the teenage girls and even very young girls. he was finally caught by a church member and they all revolted against him. They tryed to remove him from the church but he would not leave the building. Six nights later lightening hit the church and he burned to death in the church. They rebuilt the church on top of the ashes of the old one. Now the church has not been used since the 1940's when the preacher and members just up and abandoned the church one day and said they would never return to that building. Since then a lot of people have investigated this church and all have had been traumatized by the experience. I was recently asked to investigate the church myself I'm a little skiddish about it yet this building like calls out to me and I feel this stronge need to do it. What do you guys think about the situation?

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What is the purpose of exploring the location, other than curiosity and that feeling of being "drawn" to it?  Do you hope to gain something- power from whatever is inhabiting the church, information about why the awful events happened, etc?  

 

I'd definitely use amulets and talismans.  In fact, based on the intensity/power of the Presence you described that lives there, I'd make a disposable amulet- one that would be left at the very edge of the property as I left the premises.

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I have a protective talisman that I wear in places like this. The owners of this church reached out to me for help bc they can't even get their maintaince guys to go in there now and it is deemed a historical site. My community knows that I'm a medium so they want to know what it in there and if I can get rid of it. I said yes bc that's what I do I help people when they are having problems like this. This is not my rodeo with this type of situation I will admit I am a person who will put myself on the line to help others. Some might say I'm stupid but my whole life I have felt that helping others this way is what a lot of my craft is about. I just wanted some opinions on this bc I know very well that this could be dangerous and wanted to know some of your guys experiences others experiences can only add to my knowledge and approach.

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Guest monsnoleedra

I'm going to be different here.  A talisman really isn't going to do squat for you if there is something that desires to reach out and harm you.  Lets face it your going into a place that is supposed to be haunted by something potentially that has refused death and passing over as it claims an ownership over both property and potentially any living thing that crosses into that place.  Being a church its also ignored the basic tenants of sacred ground though not sacred burial ground so no perimeter in that sense that is defined by gates, fences and such.  I'd say a talisman may also fail in that your going to be entering in a static time frame where the haunting spirit is probably in a dynamic time frame, especially so if it is aware of the passage of time in any capacity.  So in essence it moves when your talisman is not real, maybe even to the perspective you are not real either.  In the most basic scenario your also trying to apply a magical energy that is ignored as it is not perceived as effective or allowable by the spirit it is being used against.  Sort of vampiric lore in that the cross will repeal and protect but an Ankh won't do squat to the vampire.

 

The other issue is your also probability wise going to face both the restless dead but also angered dead.  Lets face it if it is the spirit of a priest / pastor / reverend / etc that died by burning in the church he is probably quite angry at the living and potentially angry at his divine figure that failed to protect him.  A figure that is going to be filled with anger that the group he either perceives as being both his flock and / or his property has turned against him.  Nor can you rule out that he is being punished for some transgression against his faith that is being inflicted by his divinity figure.  

 

Sadly you also can't rule out its a sink well and has pulled other entities / spirits to its location by its negativity or vortex like activity that is probably present in some capacity as well.

 

So what can you do?

 

Well first you can create a boundary line that locks the spirit to the place for the short term.  Sort of a boundary of iron rods or stakes that box in the place, perhaps some type of warding and / or glyphs to go with it that block the windows, doors, etc.  There is a danger though in that if any part of the structure extends beyond your boundary then the boundary fails.  There is also the failure of the boundary by the presence of others who break it or disbelieve to the point they create portals that jump it.  Of course that's not counting on a failure when the property does not allow for such for whatever reason.

 

Myself I'd also walk the outside and try to sense or detect energy movements into the area or inversely away from it.  An iron spike into such a stream can be a great killer of its influence or things that slide along it.  Dowsing rods or even a compass can be a real aid in trying to find those type currents though if they are natural flows then its harder to influence them.  A lot of times though that can be determined by the lay of the land.

 

Inside is harder to say for you've not said or indicated what traumatized is being used to suggests.  Physical attacks and manifestations?  Mental attacks and manifestations?  Psychological attacks and manifestations?  Yes mental and psychological are different.  Nor have you said whether it is immediate and on the spot or post visit and at other locations for these traumatic events.  If immediate then my above questions still hold.  If at another location then the rules change for you then potentially move into astral / etheral and dream walking attacks.  To a degree you also fall into shadow self domains of influences and how things are made real by the self for the benefit of the shadow self.

 

On an individual level i'd be willing to bet your also dealing with a cursed item type scenario vice a whole building haunted scenario.  As such where are you going to move the item to?  You can best believe your not going to un-curse it so its got to be moved to a place where its affects / effects are limited.  You also have to consider the item may lay beneath the ground in the ruins of the supposed first church that burnt.  A nail, some ornament or metal item that was salvaged and used in the new church.

 

Are you going into this place by yourself?  You might be a medium but which type?  Physical, mental, occultist?  I've been in places that I felt nothing yet a different type of medium was engaged the moment they entered.  Yet I walked into a given room and suddenly like I was underwater by its presence and it appeared as both visual, psychological and audible all at once.  Yet as the story of the spider goes I was deep in its web at that point.  The other thing is when are you going?  One would think night is worse but at times its actually safer than going in the day light.  Days of the week can actually matter as well, i'd not enter at all on a Sunday for instance unless I knew a heck of a lot about the place for energy wise it would be at its apex on a Sunday.  Personally I'd consider a tape recorder though on a Sunday when I though religious services would be going then pull it out later.  Might not hear anything but might get a lot of white noise speaking.  Might give a clue as to how many might be there though can't rule out one spirit playing the roles of a lot of individual to project itself in multiple ways.

 

I'd also find out what type of Christian group it was.  That can be a great clue as to how to protect yourself.  Figure some of the old snake protestant groups didn't respond to cross figures but sure gave importance to serpent figures and the presence of God.  So identify your group but also its weaknesses.  Consider that the person was accused of targeting teens and younger girls, that suggests a sense of power struggle going on and an increase of agitation towards males to begin with.  Yet you could also have an older and deeper entity at work and i'm not talking about a Satan figure either.

 

As I write this I keep getting hit with the words illusion and deception which to me are warnings.  A slight of hand to get you to look at one place while the danger comes from another. 

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I sure as hell wouldn't go in there just like that, I'd have to have a very good and specific reason besides just the urge to help out others. The little I know of it from your description, the place sounds dangerous and it's not something I would actively seek out for visiting, let alone trying to change something there. I admit I am tempted sometimes to feel "interested" when I hear about local haunted or spiritually conflicted places, but before I actually even consider going there, I make sure I'm very well informed AND prepared (as in protected to the core).

 

Personally I deal with the dead quite often, but I usually don't seek them out. I deal with who I inevitably encounter and with those who seek ME out somehow, and I seem to be a magnet for WWII victims especially and though I think I can do something good and useful for them, it is not "fun" at all dealing with them, nor is it something that I would actively pursue given the choice.

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I understand your fascination, Hawkwind. It sounds like somewhere I would explore too. It's just the kind of witch I am. Outright morbid and overly curious. The spiritual activity you're talking about would be great for curses, it sounds like there may already be a potent one of sorts at work. If the dead preacher is what's behind all of it he shouldn't be too difficult to deal with. Be careful and don't trust your mundane senses. Protection goes without saying but if it was me I would be doing some inanimate binding as well. Think of it like a soil sample.

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I think this spirit would respond best to someone within the faith that he practiced.  Or, well, he's dead and has found that it was a bunch of bullshit!  

What investment do you have in this?  What do you have to gain?  Do you feel that you can put this spirit to rest?  Honestly, are you prepared to deal with what certain spirits can do?  

I don't see that you have any personal investment in this matter.  It's not worth the risk to you.

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I think The binding is a great idea. All the info on this church was found in the historical records. I'm a Physical Medium I tend to feel what the spirit feels. The people that have had experiences that I have talked to were shaken to the core they all stated hearing strange noises seeing a black figure and all of them were touched hit hair pulled the maintaince man had one of the old candle holders threw at him. So yes am I crazy for going in there yes,but I have a risk taking personality. I'm the kind of guy that if someone said jumping my atv over a huge gorge is totally dangerous and could kill me I would say so what I'm trying it anyway. The community should be able to have this historical site back where people can visit without fear. I help people as much as I do bc it seems we live in a society where people just don't care about anyone else but themselves. To me it is sad and I could never be one of those people.

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Guest monsnoleedra

I think The binding is a great idea. All the info on this church was found in the historical records. I'm a Physical Medium I tend to feel what the spirit feels. The people that have had experiences that I have talked to were shaken to the core they all stated hearing strange noises seeing a black figure and all of them were touched hit hair pulled the maintaince man had one of the old candle holders threw at him. So yes am I crazy for going in there yes,but I have a risk taking personality. I'm the kind of guy that if someone said jumping my atv over a huge gorge is totally dangerous and could kill me I would say so what I'm trying it anyway. The community should be able to have this historical site back where people can visit without fear. I help people as much as I do bc it seems we live in a society where people just don't care about anyone else but themselves. To me it is sad and I could never be one of those people.

 

 

Definitely a physical spirit then.  Not sure about the justification of trying to give it back to the community.  By that logic the elder land wrights would be justified in driving us out and saying it was being done for the community.  It also ignores what ever reason the spirit may have for retaining its hold over the area.  Makes me think of Borley Rectory in England for some reason.

 

If everyone enters with that attitude then I can see why the spirit would respond so violently to anyone who entered.  That's the attitude of doing for them and not trying to find out why the spirit is stuck there or has chosen to remain there.

 

Do wonder where this church is at?  Not sure it would change what I'm thinking but would really feel more qualified and informed to make a suggestion if I knew more about it.

 

Edited to add:

 

If your sole reason for doing this is for the living then i'd not step into the place with you for any amount of money.  that puts the spirit / entity on the defensive right from the start for its not about its place nor concern for it or what it might need to cross over.  That's a recipe for disaster.

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The very first thing I thought of was your personal protection when I read your thread.

 

If you're determined to do this - then you'll do it - regardless of how many warnings you get.  We do what we do and don't really expect others to understand it.

 

As physical medium, one who 'feels' what the spirit is feeling, what do you plan on doing with this entity?  Do you also have the ability to work with it or is it limited to picking up on it?

 

Some places belong to the living.  Some places belong to the dead.  Other places belong to things that never lived a 'human' life.  Yes, being at the top of the food chain does have it's perks BUT when dealing with Spirits - it's not always a level playing field.  This is a suggestion - take it or leave it as you will...  if you're really going to do this - I would hold off on deciding beforehand - that this specific site IS for the living.  It may not be.  You're assuming your role in this before you began your physical investigation into it.  That's not always the wisest course of action.  It may turn out that protecting the living from this place and keeping them away is the more practical thing to do.

 

I think jumping to the conclusion that this is a human spirit is also a recipe for a possible disaster.  It takes a LOT for one dead human spirit to drive off an entire flock.  I'm not saying it can't be done or doesn't happen - just that hauntings of that nature and severity are not as common as what we see on tv.

 

I don't know that binding is a great idea.  If it's confined to the church and/or property it may already be bound.  Throwing magic on top of older magic before you see the energetic layout can bite you.  It may need to be bound again if the old magic is slipping (if there is any to begin with - we simply don't know).  It may require the object it was bound to to be returned to it.  There may be no 'cursed' object.  There may be an object that repels attacks by this thing.  If there is indeed an object that this entity was tied to or was created for dealing with it - it'll need to be found.  They used to bury these things under the tiles or hidden in alters.  There are churches that were built specifically for housing and containing entities so that they don't wreak havoc on the general populace.  I doubt you'll find info on that in public records.  Old diaries or journals perhaps.  Maybe, maybe really old official church records that have long since been forgotten but if we're talking centuries - they may no longer exist.

 

There are so many unknowns here.  I'm just spitballing some ideas of things to consider here before you decide to do this (if you're still considering it) or if you've already committed to it.  We do dangerous things.  We do what we're Called to do or as our instincts guide us.  It doesn't matter if others understand it or condone it.  If we feel we must - we do.  I'm (edited to add the word not) NOT gonna try to talk you out of it.  I just think that you need more information and access to all of the old official records if they still have them.  If they're not willing to give you full access to the information then the risk to self outweighs it.  Or they may be willing to.  I don't know.

 

(edited cuz my thoughts were faster than my fingers.  it's amazing how leaving out one little word can change an entire sentence).

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Guys I think you might have taken me wrong I'm not going there to drive anything out I told them that I would enter to see what kind of entity they are dealing with. I have just told them that I will not try to get rid of it. I told them I will find out what there dealing with and then make a recommendation on what I find. If i feel it is too dangerous for them to enter I will advise them not to enter. Even though I'm a witch I have in the past worked with Men of faith to have them do their methodes when I know it is something that they are more equipped for the job. Sometimes they can help someone more than me. I promise that if I enter and realize it is too dangerous for me to be there I Will leave I mean I take risks more so than most but I always remember that I have a 7yr old son who needs me.

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Just wanted to let you know that I edited the above post to add the word NOT.  I'm not going to try to talk you out of doing something you feel you must or should do.

 

People have their specialties.  I see nothing wrong with using the gifts that we have and then passing the situation along to someone else who other or different gifts to get the job done.  Knowing our current abilities and limitations is a good thing.  Having a network that includes others with varying gifts is a great thing.

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The only thing I feel I can add is this...remember us talking about ritual baths? Be sure to cleanse yourself AFTER you leave.  Wait and do it again when the moon is dark if you need to.  Being a human litmus test for what may be lurking in this church is dangerous, but you obviously are well aware of the risk and will do what you can to protect yourself before you go in. 

 

I also agree with ArcticWitch's suggestion to make some sort of disposable talisman in order to avoid bringing anything with you, but honestly it sounds as if whatever is at this old church is pretty attached to the place its self. 

 

I might be being overly cautious in this but if you are going to go in there, you should be well prepared.

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Thanks Rachael I will. You know I just want to say thank you bc you have definitely been yet another person here that I really enjoy talking to and you always have caring advise. That's why I always say this community I concider my family. :smile:

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Guest monsnoleedra

I must be the only one who would actually WANT to bring something back from there with me :sad:

 

 

Don't recall the exact location anymore but there is a church down in Spotsylvannia County that matches some of what is being spoken of here.  Except that one is the home of the green lady but the church is supposed to date back to colonial times near as I recall.  Think it was on rt 17 but might be down near rt 20 going towards Fredricksburg but been many years since I was last near it or heard anything about it.  Yet at the time she'd run you out and strike you but if you tried to take things she considered her's it was supposed to get really ugly then and she'd come home with you.  Never met him personally but in the late 70's early 80's there was the urban tale of the former seal who stayed there overnight and was supposed to have come out the next morning with white hair from what he saw in there.  Of course like I said never met him myself so its an urban legend type story but it did match many of the things that were said to occur there.

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I don't mean to pry or seem bitchy about this, but do you have spiritual protection, allies, attending spirits who will help to defend you?  Keep in mind even if you do that they will be in this spirits domain and you will need to feed them up massively for this sort of thing.  I don't know how much you've ever worked with the dead, but those that die in traumatic ways like this can be seriously nasty.  There is the also the possibility of being traumatized and fucked up mentally from these sorts of things.  Just so you know.

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I don't mean to pry or seem bitchy about this, but do you have spiritual protection, allies, attending spirits who will help to defend you?  Keep in mind even if you do that they will be in this spirits domain and you will need to feed them up massively for this sort of thing.  I don't know how much you've ever worked with the dead, but those that die in traumatic ways like this can be seriously nasty.  There is the also the possibility of being traumatized and fucked up mentally from these sorts of things.  Just so you know.

 

This is so worth repeating!

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That's definitely a good point, I work with no less than a dozen spirits on a regular basis that I take the time to get to know and trade favors with.  Without one of them in particular I wouldn't be traipsing around in places like this church.

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Anoint yourself before you go in, top of the head and a big toe. Suffumigate for the duration of your visit. Old churches have bounds laid out around them, you can gate yourself in and seal it up behind when you go. Do not take any shit from a haunt that calls you. And if the bound itself is fouled, don't cross that.

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