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Ethics in Magic- What's your take charging people for work and other questions.

Ethics Magic Witchcraft Charging for your craft spell craft for others

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#41 Ravenshaw

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Posted 30 September 2014 - 09:17 PM

I personally do not charge. If a friend asks me to do a working that involves buying materials, I will ask them to buy it if I do not have it. But for profit? Nah.... if I'm doing something that I feel requires payment, it is probably something I do not want to be involved in.


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#42 Roanna

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 11:02 AM

 

 

Someone close to you asks for your help in the same fashion, except they're of a specific religion that does not practice and/or allow witchcraft. Do you help them? Why or why not?

 

 

 

This reminds me of a recent incident when my very Catholic sister believed her partner was about to lose his job. She asked me if I could do something to help and I agreed in principle but asked her to define what type of help she wanted. I said I could do something to maximise his own chances and his own luck or I could go a step further and reduce the chances of the competitors for the role and manipulate the will of the person/s making the decision. She didn't bat an eyelid when she asked for the full works.

 

Interesting how in a stressful situation she turned not to her her church or her God but to a witch. She had little faith that her religion could help her but absolute faith that a practitioner of a craft she has no personal involvement with could easily resolve the matter. I wonder if there is some innate belief in magic that lingers on despite the attempts of mainstream society to quash it. I was also interested that the personal morality of her chosen faith went out of the window - as soon as times got tough she was in it solely for herself, everyone else be damned. 

 

(He got the job of course)


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#43 travsha

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 03:25 PM

I will say - after working with traditional witches and shamans from indigenous cultures - every one I have met charges.  Not always money, but usually (they are often open to work trades as well).  I think this partly has to do with reciprocation, and balancing energy, but it also has to do with how many clients they see.  If you work for other people every single day, you need to charge because you have much less time for work.  Otherwise, you end up either turning people away because you dont have time after work to treat them, or because you are over-extending yourself already.  Also - you can make a lot of enemies being a healer (physical and spiritual enemies).  I heard one tribal witch say he was scared to die, because he knows how many spirits he has pissed off by saving their family members - if the family member had died, they would have been reunited.  Likewise, if you uncross someone, you probably made an enemy of the person who did the crossing to begin with - and now you need to protect yourself.  Healing can be a really intense practice when you start getting serious clients.  



#44 Christine

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Posted 05 October 2014 - 07:34 AM

I don't do spellwork for other people either. In fact, right now none of my skills are available to the public because I have enough on my plate right here. But I have never understood why someone who does work of any kind for someone outside the household should not get remuneration. TANSTAAFL.


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#45 RoseRed

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Posted 09 October 2014 - 04:53 PM

Interesting how in a stressful situation she turned not to her her church or her God but to a witch. She had little faith that her religion could help her but absolute faith that a practitioner of a craft she has no personal involvement with could easily resolve the matter. I wonder if there is some innate belief in magic that lingers on despite the attempts of mainstream society to quash it. I was also interested that the personal morality of her chosen faith went out of the window - as soon as times got tough she was in it solely for herself, everyone else be damned.

 

 

 

I've found that to be quite common.  People are funny that way. :rolleyes:


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#46 daze113

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Posted 09 October 2014 - 07:18 PM

Personally i would not like to charge due to sticking with my family and friends but thinking about it why should someone who feels competent in there craft not charge? if they were providing any other service I'm sure they would charge.I think it also depends on where you live,how other people may perceive you and if you would want to advertise. 



#47 bewitchingredhead

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Posted 17 October 2014 - 08:28 AM

I didn't.  I was speaking generally.

 

I also wasn't speaking of cheating significant others specifically.  I was speaking generally.  There are all kinds of situations that can cause people to take that route.

 

Can we try this again?  I wonder if my post would be taken differently if you didn't assume I was speaking specifically about you.

 

 

 

If the curse is properly cast - that is the case.

 

Which goes back to what I said above:

 

 

Getting pissed off and flinging 'mean' or hurtful energy at someone is not a properly made curse.  This is a perfect example why I talk about furthering education and working on skillsets. 

 

I really miss Jevne.

 

Anyways, I'll be happy to discuss my post further with you if we can speak in generalities and remove the assumption that I assumed anything about you.  Because, quite frankly, I wasn't thinking about being cheated on when I wrote that post.  I was responding to your question - not to your example. 

Sure, sorry for the mix up! I don't always assume you're referring to and/or speaking directly about me- sorry if it came across that way. I think the confusion for me in this specific example was the word 'you'.  When I see the word "you" in a direct response to a reply of mine when it's not prefaced, I think it's direct. That's why I always try to phrase it "you collectively" not "you individually", etc. Just a personal habit of mine. Sorry for the misunderstanding.  :unsure: 

 

 

Getting back to the subject- yes, I'd love to discuss it further. I have a question about what you said regarding someone who has spent their whole life not cursing and/or refusing to curse, not learning how to cast a proper curse first. How would one learn how to cast a 'proper' curse w/o experience? Simply by learned knowledge (assuming it's from a reputable source/sources of course) and hoping you're right/have done everything 'correctly' (if that makes sense)?


I see you're getting your degree in art of the obvious~myself
Without music life would be a mistake~ Friedrich Nietzsche
Immorality: The morality of those who are having a better time~ H.L. Mencken
When nature has work to be done, she creates a genius to do it~ Ralph Waldo Emerson
We cannot teach people anything; we can only help them discover it within themselves~ Galileo

#48 bewitchingredhead

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Posted 17 October 2014 - 08:40 AM

This reminds me of a recent incident when my very Catholic sister believed her partner was about to lose his job. She asked me if I could do something to help and I agreed in principle but asked her to define what type of help she wanted. I said I could do something to maximise his own chances and his own luck or I could go a step further and reduce the chances of the competitors for the role and manipulate the will of the person/s making the decision. She didn't bat an eyelid when she asked for the full works.

 

Interesting how in a stressful situation she turned not to her her church or her God but to a witch. She had little faith that her religion could help her but absolute faith that a practitioner of a craft she has no personal involvement with could easily resolve the matter. I wonder if there is some innate belief in magic that lingers on despite the attempts of mainstream society to quash it. I was also interested that the personal morality of her chosen faith went out of the window - as soon as times got tough she was in it solely for herself, everyone else be damned. 

 

(He got the job of course)

 

 

I believe so!! I've always thought that was the case. I think it starts when we're children, and although some of the "magical" things like Santa Claus and the tooth fairy are obviously abandoned at an older age when a child knows it's not true anymore, a large part still lingers. I think it's a gradual (or sometimes rapid depending on one's religious beliefs) conditioning to remove those aspects of ourselves.....but there's still a part that lingers. I think this is especially the situation if the person has always been drawn to magic and/or witchcraft, possesses some type of psychic/intuitive abilities, and/or can see/speak to the dead as a child. 

 

And he he he @the job!!   :lolol: 


I see you're getting your degree in art of the obvious~myself
Without music life would be a mistake~ Friedrich Nietzsche
Immorality: The morality of those who are having a better time~ H.L. Mencken
When nature has work to be done, she creates a genius to do it~ Ralph Waldo Emerson
We cannot teach people anything; we can only help them discover it within themselves~ Galileo

#49 bewitchingredhead

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Posted 17 October 2014 - 09:02 AM

BRH ... It's interesting what you took from that.

 

No, I don't think I'd third party curse -- Not my Circus, Not my monkeys. 

 

As far as the teeny, on-the-fly-spell goes... it didn't backfire at all.  It worked perfectly well :smile:

 

I don't give a rat's ass that she wasn't prepared for it work -- it's a Be Careful What You Wish For scenario.  Again, not my circus. 

 

That MOMENT in time made me realize people sometimes don't know what the hell they really want. This was the closest thing to 'regretting' I could think of. 

 

You asked, I shared. 

 

Should it happen again, I'm back to not giving a rat's ass.

 

It's not that complicated. 

Who said it was complicated?

 

What is your assumption of what I took from your comment? I have a feeling it's not the same thing. I like interesting though :wink:

 

I have to disagree w/you though about the "not my circus" comment (regarding your statement that you weren't concerned if she was ready or not for the possible outcomes).  

 

If you agree to get involved in something, by "helping" a friend and/or doing any type of spellwork for someone, you have joined the circus. If it's not your problem, why bother in the first place? If you don't care about the outcome/how it affects another person- again, why bother? 


I see you're getting your degree in art of the obvious~myself
Without music life would be a mistake~ Friedrich Nietzsche
Immorality: The morality of those who are having a better time~ H.L. Mencken
When nature has work to be done, she creates a genius to do it~ Ralph Waldo Emerson
We cannot teach people anything; we can only help them discover it within themselves~ Galileo

#50 Aurelian

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Posted 17 October 2014 - 10:46 AM

I help many people.  Daily.  It takes minutes.  Love them all.

I may charge in the future.  Who cares?


"The truth about the world, he said, is that anything is possible. Had you not seen it from birth and thereby bled it of its strangeness it would appear to you for what it is, a hat trick in a medicine show, a fevered dream, a trance bepopulate with chimeras having neither analogue nor precedent, an itinerant carnival, a migratory tentshow whose ultimate destination after many a pitch in many a mudded field is unspeakable and calamitous beyond reckoning."  - Cormac McCarthy


#51 RoseRed

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Posted 17 October 2014 - 10:55 PM

Sure, sorry for the mix up! I don't always assume you're referring to and/or speaking directly about me- sorry if it came across that way. I think the confusion for me in this specific example was the word 'you'.  When I see the word "you" in a direct response to a reply of mine when it's not prefaced, I think it's direct. That's why I always try to phrase it "you collectively" not "you individually", etc. Just a personal habit of mine. Sorry for the misunderstanding.  :unsure: 

 

 

Getting back to the subject- yes, I'd love to discuss it further. I have a question about what you said regarding someone who has spent their whole life not cursing and/or refusing to curse, not learning how to cast a proper curse first. How would one learn how to cast a 'proper' curse w/o experience? Simply by learned knowledge (assuming it's from a reputable source/sources of course) and hoping you're right/have done everything 'correctly' (if that makes sense)?

 

Yeah, I really need to do a better job of differentiating between you (as in you) or you (collectively).  Sorry 'bout that.

 

Learned knowledge, friends and acquaintances that have experience in it, decent books on the subject, etc.

 

Hoping you did it right?  Not always a good thing.  As Michele is fond of saying 'a curse is like a donkey.  Tether it well or it'll come home to you.'

 

 

 

I also understand Nikki's comment about 'not my circus'.  Just because we are willing to help someone does not me that we are willing to accept their consequences for it.  We can tell people until we're blue in the face what may happen.  A lot of times - they don't want to hear it.  Just because we (or I) are willing to do the spell doesn't mean that we'll accept the fall out from it - especially, if it's not our (my) problem to begin with. 

 

Doing work for others (whether paid or free) can be like that.  Would you expect a 'professional' witch to do so?


When my wings get tired I grab my broom.

#52 Caps

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Posted 18 October 2014 - 01:45 AM

Yes, and maybe healing.  Like when my late mother first began having trouble with diabetes, I offered a wax image of a foot so she could keep hers.  She did lose some bone in her ankle but she kept her feet and legs for a little while after that.  But I don't do spellwork say, for casual aquaintances who somehow find out about my spritual practices and then ask me for a love or money spell or whatever.

 

I tend to be even limited with information I give out unless I know the person well and they have earned my trust, because sometimes people have weird motives.

=============

I suppose what I mean by "giving information" is usually certain things that may help them, usually I'm mostly vague about it....I'll offer some insights into herbs, old beliefs or customs of certain cultural groups, or a vague allusion to folk magic or old wives tales.  I like giving people a starting point, something to think about and consider....sometimes they'll come back to me and want to know more but most of the time I don't hear anything about it.  For example, I've noticed a lot of the guys I work with have started asking me more about herbal remedies.  They act like they're kidding around but I can tell that they usually aren't.  A guy mentioned his bad knees from his service in the military and how the VA doctors weren't doing him any favors, I mentioned a few herbal remedies to him and he came back to me about it a few days later wanting to know more.

 

As far as anything dealing with spirits, I'm very very unlikely to bite, I highly doubt any of them would ask me even if they knew what I deal with.  There are only two guys in there that know what I am, one I play music with occasionally but he keeps his distance because he has a lot of trouble with what he calls "imps" ...I have noticed the presence of something lingering at the edge of his property, and I suspect I know what they are a result of...a police massacre in the early 20th century a few hundred yards across the railroad tracks.  The other guy is a "born again Christian"  and he normally will ask me my insights into the occult ways of politicians and the likes and what certain symbology means, as he's big into conspiracy theories.  Of the two of these guys, I would be likely to help the one I play music with because it does affect me since I have the passive ability to trail one in to his property.  I've done some spellwork at his house.  His wife knows a little more about what I do than she lets on...


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#53 bewitchingredhead

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Posted 18 October 2014 - 08:51 AM

I help many people.  Daily.  It takes minutes.  Love them all.

I may charge in the future.  Who cares?

I think that's awesome! I don't really have a problem with either. It's just nice to hear others' perspectives. 

 

Yeah, I really need to do a better job of differentiating between you (as in you) or you (collectively).  Sorry 'bout that.

 

Learned knowledge, friends and acquaintances that have experience in it, decent books on the subject, etc.

 

Hoping you did it right?  Not always a good thing.  As Michele is fond of saying 'a curse is like a donkey.  Tether it well or it'll come home to you.'

 

 

 

I also understand Nikki's comment about 'not my circus'.  Just because we are willing to help someone does not me that we are willing to accept their consequences for it.  We can tell people until we're blue in the face what may happen.  A lot of times - they don't want to hear it.  Just because we (or I) are willing to do the spell doesn't mean that we'll accept the fall out from it - especially, if it's not our (my) problem to begin with. 

 

Doing work for others (whether paid or free) can be like that.  Would you expect a 'professional' witch to do so?

It's quite alright. I'm extremely verbose (in real life even more so than online) and that in itself can cause some to want to pull out their hair; not to mention that the written word is notorious for misunderstandings bc it's hard to tell the context of things without tone of voice and/or body language. At any rate, no harm (except for maybe my mini novel as a reply  :red_witch: 

 

Yeah that's what I'd really worry about regarding curses. Def don't want the tether ball to smack me in the face and break my fucking nose. :stars:

 

I can understand that from another perspective when you put it that way. I guess part of me still feels the onus is mostly on the witch, professional or not. We know a spell will likely work, while I suspect most people who ask for help and are not involved in the craft really hope it will work, but still have many doubts that it actually will. Kinda like praying to Jesus...hit or miss, lol

 

If a spell is cast in the manner to which you refer (someone being told of the possible outcomes beforehand till you're blue in the face, but they just won't listen), I can see your side to that aspect fairly well. I didn't get the impression though, that that was the case in her specific example- bc it was done on the fly. Hard to explain the possible outcomes in that situation. I'd really want that person, especially if they were a friend, to be aware of all potential/possible outcomes. If I didn't/don't think they understood or were able to at least grasp a reasonable amount of potential outcomes, I'd likely not do the spell for them at all. From a mundane perspective this occurs all the time w/friends and family. I'm sure many of us have all seen our fair share. 

 

Though you def raised a very interesting perspective I had not thought of (bc I've never really known one)- a "professional" witch. It would be very interesting to hear the perspectives of those who are professional witches (not psychics, intuitives, readers, or healers, but one who casts spells for others).
 


I see you're getting your degree in art of the obvious~myself
Without music life would be a mistake~ Friedrich Nietzsche
Immorality: The morality of those who are having a better time~ H.L. Mencken
When nature has work to be done, she creates a genius to do it~ Ralph Waldo Emerson
We cannot teach people anything; we can only help them discover it within themselves~ Galileo

#54 CailinRua

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Posted 18 October 2014 - 11:01 PM

I dont know anyone in "real life" who knows that I practice, so I also have never done a work FOR someone else. However, if one day for whatever reason someone asks for help anyway, I dont see the problem with charging for time or supplies. Crafting is a skill, and a relatively rare one at that. If someone asked my help with yardwork because I am skilled in my own garden, i would charge or trade for my time like any other odd job. As far as the ethics go, I dont think there is any universal here, it comes down to what individuals are comfortable with and the context of the situation. I wont bother to pretend to know or particularly care where that line is, since it is very different for everyone and even someone with a very hard and clear "line" will switch perspectives quickly in dire enough situations, or less than dire even, as with the example Deguwitchrose gave about her catholic sister.