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Wexler

New Witches and the Danger of Witchcraft

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Damnit Galaxy, I'm trying to go to bed but I have a terrible addiction to reply to to posts of threads I started!

 

I do not think it is about RETRIBUTION. I think it is about making a stupid mistake and having it splash on to your life.

 

It's kind of like working with a computer, and witches are the computer savvy. Once you start pulling up OS files and rewriting code by hand, you can accidentally mess things up. And like programming, it is really really hard to know how to do things correctly until you finally get down to writing your own programs.

 

As an inexperienced witch, trying to cast spells on people you are close to may not be a good idea, at least the way I see it. Until I have a good amount of experience I'm not about to try and edit the source code of my relationship files, you know? So I think your decision in that regard is not unsound. You shouldn't go fiddling with things important to you unless you know what you're doing.

 

At the same time, I think it is important to overcome anxiety about your magic messing up. If you cast a spell for one thing, and in the back of your mind it is constantly replaying that this spell will destroy your relationship somehow... well, it probably will now that you've filled it with that anxious energy. I've never worried about magic ruining my relationships and it never has. I don't cast to directly affect the people I love, either, which probably helps.

 

Perhaps you could do some soul-searching to help yourself understand why you are having these fears. You could also work with VERY specific magic with no room for interpretation to reduce the chances that the magic will creep in to your relationship. You could build a basic protection around your relationship as a 'splash shield', or in every spell you could include a caveat that in no way will your relationship be affected. Try divining before spells to help understand the effects it will have on your life.

 

In my opinion, however, a lot of magic "retribution" isn't from the magic itself. It happens because you didn't have the foresight to see what you were actually asking for. If I cast a spell for my friends to be happy and it ends up causing them to break up and they're both miserable for a year before they finally move on - that wasn't "retribution". That was me being too stupid to realize that in order to be truly happy, they needed to break up. So really think about the effects your (specifically worded) spells will have. Think about the normal human reactions people will have due to them. Magic can do things unexpectedly, but short-sightedness I think causes a hell of a lot more "karmic justice" than the magic itself does.

Edited by Wexler

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You don't need to be fearful Serpent, just informed and cautious, rather than these people who want to do everything at once...which is just hubris, and is arrogant.

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That's so true, Aurelian. 

 

Not believing you are powerful enough can get someone into hot water too.

 

Also, I think being aware that universe has a way of being a trickster....  sometimes acting like a total dick....lol.... 

 

....delivering spells at the worst possible moment, wrapped in irony, sealed with inconvenience and a note that reads,"GOT YA -- on a technicality...." is a worthy mention.

 

Your magic worked, but WTH?

 

*chuckles*

 

Own the chaos.... 'cause it does happen sometimes.

Edited by Nikki

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Damnit Galaxy, I'm trying to go to bed but I have a terrible addiction to reply to to posts of threads I started!

 

I do not think it is about RETRIBUTION. I think it is about making a stupid mistake and having it splash on to your life.

 

It's kind of like working with a computer, and witches are the computer savvy. Once you start pulling up OS files and rewriting code by hand, you can accidentally mess things up. And like programming, it is really really hard to know how to do things correctly until you finally get down to writing your own programs.

 

As an inexperienced witch, trying to cast spells on people you are close to may not be a good idea, at least the way I see it. Until I have a good amount of experience I'm not about to try and edit the source code of my relationship files, you know? So I think your decision in that regard is not unsound. You shouldn't go fiddling with things important to you unless you know what you're doing.

 

At the same time, I think it is important to overcome anxiety about your magic messing up. If you cast a spell for one thing, and in the back of your mind it is constantly replaying that this spell will destroy your relationship somehow... well, it probably will now that you've filled it with that anxious energy. I've never worried about magic ruining my relationships and it never has. I don't cast to directly affect the people I love, either, which probably helps.

 

Perhaps you could do some soul-searching to help yourself understand why you are having these fears. You could also work with VERY specific magic with no room for interpretation to reduce the chances that the magic will creep in to your relationship. You could build a basic protection around your relationship as a 'splash shield', or in every spell you could include a caveat that in no way will your relationship be affected. Try divining before spells to help understand the effects it will have on your life.

 

In my opinion, however, a lot of magic "retribution" isn't from the magic itself. It happens because you didn't have the foresight to see what you were actually asking for. If I cast a spell for my friends to be happy and it ends up causing them to break up and they're both miserable for a year before they finally move on - that wasn't "retribution". That was me being too stupid to realize that in order to be truly happy, they needed to break up. So really think about the effects your (specifically worded) spells will have. Think about the normal human reactions people will have due to them. Magic can do things unexpectedly, but short-sightedness I think causes a hell of a lot more "karmic justice" than the magic itself does.

 

If I can't sleep, no one can!!  Muahahahaha!  :vhappywitch:   I think my anxiety around the matter will decrease as I continue learning and researching and such.  I don't plan to do any spells on those close to me for a good while yet, and I'll make sure to really think over what it is I'm doing before I do it.  What's this basic protection you're talking about?  Same sort of idea as a "white light" protection for the self?

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I think everyone would go about it in their own way. I think that going that route has a greater possibility of error, because putting a shield around something often seems to control it in some way. Since I like working with words I might just literally write out something that says "my relationship with X is shielded from being affected by my magic." And work with it whenever I need to to keep the effect going. But if you make something like that, don't forget about it... for example it may mean that while all your friends and family are benefiting from work you do, he may not. Or if you do self-work to be a better person, your relationship with him may not be able to improve or grow as a result of that. I think this is a neat point of discussion, we should go to chat and talk about it some time!

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Controlling your environment is living in the splash zone of your will, as it is.  You are going to affect your loved ones and family one way or another..what's the difference with words, or a spell?  They are both your intent.  Weighed risk?  I guess it depends on YOUR particular skills....

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I think everyone would go about it in their own way. I think that going that route has a greater possibility of error, because putting a shield around something often seems to control it in some way. Since I like working with words I might just literally write out something that says "my relationship with X is shielded from being affected by my magic." And work with it whenever I need to to keep the effect going. But if you make something like that, don't forget about it... for example it may mean that while all your friends and family are benefiting from work you do, he may not. Or if you do self-work to be a better person, your relationship with him may not be able to improve or grow as a result of that. I think this is a neat point of discussion, we should go to chat and talk about it some time!

 

This is all true.  I'm definitely interested in going to the chat about it, I'm curious to see what other people's experiences have been on this issue and how they (if they) avoided it.

 

Controlling your environment is living in the splash zone of your will, as it is.  You are going to affect your loved ones and family one way or another..what's the difference with words, or a spell?  They are both your intent.  Weighed risk?  I guess it depends on YOUR particular skills....

 

Ah, there's so much to consider.  Better to think about all this ahead of time rather than in hindsight I suppose!

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ime, you get what you ask for.

 

Some, say magic comes about in unexpected ways, which can be true to an extent. But, often, the witch did not fully realize what the wording of the spell was actually putting into action. The witch had one thing in his/her mind, and something else came out of their mouth/hand, which was not congruent with what they had in their mind. Also, to know how to make them congruent is dependent on knowing as much as you can about the situation at hand, for example DG's example of the spell for the couple's happiness. Divination can help this.

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Duster Galaxy, I think it is hard to really understand how to control your magic and minimize collateral damage until you start working with it a bit. In a post above I complained that I did some magic that got me in to hot water - and because I really (albeit unwittingly) involved lots of magic in my life, my knowledge of magic has grown in leaps and bounds. You have to get a bit of magic rolling in your life before you can truly begin to understand how to work with it safely, imo. So while foresight is a very good thing, I think at some point it is limited until a certain amount of experience is thrown in.

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Or you could jump in the deep end and either sink or swim.  That happens, too, sometimes.

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Or you could jump in the deep end and either sink or swim.  That happens, too, sometimes.

Well, yes :D but at this particular juncture, I would feel amiss to advise that.

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Duster Galaxy, I think it is hard to really understand how to control your magic and minimize collateral damage until you start working with it a bit. In a post above I complained that I did some magic that got me in to hot water - and because I really (albeit unwittingly) involved lots of magic in my life, my knowledge of magic has grown in leaps and bounds. You have to get a bit of magic rolling in your life before you can truly begin to understand how to work with it safely, imo. So while foresight is a very good thing, I think at some point it is limited until a certain amount of experience is thrown in.

 

I'm doing slow integration now.  I'm usually one to jump right into things head first, but lately I've been a slow mover, in all areas.  I find this method works best in my life.  For instance, right now I'm reading everything I can get my hands on about witchcraft and paganism.  I've been doing Tarot much more often, been practicing grounding, shielding, contacting my spirit guide, etc.  When I move, I plan to set up an altar, do some simple spells, etc.  I think this slow moving actually indicates I might be maturing as a person, haha.  I'm excited more than anxious, because I know if I tread carefully and think things through I should be fine.  And if things aren't fine, they'll come to pass.  

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Sounds like a great plan DG :) Very exciting indeed !!! We all learn as we go. 

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Guest monsnoleedra

This is all true.  I'm definitely interested in going to the chat about it, I'm curious to see what other people's experiences have been on this issue and how they (if they) avoided it.

 

 

Ah, there's so much to consider.  Better to think about all this ahead of time rather than in hindsight I suppose!

 

 

One thing i've found over the years is that we spend hours thinking about our workings before hand, then spend hours evaluating the results after its done.  In a lot of ways it seems like we're research professors in the university of the universe.  Study and formulate our theories and assumptions, test and record all aspects, evaluate what went as we though, what went differently than we though or hoped and what went wrong and hopefully why.  Analyze it all and try to refine the process and practice and see what aspects we can tweek or substitute other things into to make it work under other conditions to get the same results.  All the while trying not to either go nuts or appear as if were nuts.

 

I have to admit as someone older it is refreshing and stimulating to a degree to watch the generations coming behind as they discover things and find themselves in the process.  As Nikki says above, well Nikki and Wexler, Rosered, etc all say sounds like a good plan you got going there.

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ime, you get what you ask for.

 

Some, say magic comes about in unexpected ways, which can be true to an extent. But, often, the witch did not fully realize what the wording of the spell was actually putting into action. The witch had one thing in his/her mind, and something else came out of their mouth/hand, which was not congruent with what they had in their mind. Also, to know how to make them congruent is dependent on knowing as much as you can about the situation at hand, for example DG's example of the spell for the couple's happiness. Divination can help this.

 

 

( Emphasis is Mine )

 

 

I would suggest that a Witch learn another verbal language, or learn hand gestures not so readily " familiar ".  I feel it safe to say that we all have " our first Language ".. or we all accept the universal hand sign of " Thumbs Up / Okay ".  In some countries that " hand sign " of " Okay ".... is not accepted as a welcoming thing, it is a great insult. Some workings require a more powerful action verb, not just a fly by your pants verb that suits the emotion at the time. 

 

Take the word " Slaughter " for instance.  Brings up pictures.... right ?  It also means, to " nullify " , " quash ", " annul " .  What would that word ( Slaughter ) paint a picture of lets say in the Danish Language ?  Would it be as what the picture has been painted, in the English language ?  I'll be the first to admit that when I think or use the word " Slaughter".... that I sure didn't see the application to the word, " annul ", that word was a different picture all together.

 

Catch my drift ?

 

 

Regards,

Gypsy

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I caught it.

 

It is good to see you and Autumn Moon again.

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Good thread.  I had some serious problems when I was 18 and 19 not realizing what exactly I was doing with myself and I paid dearly...it took years before I was able to correct the pitfall I had made during a series of stupid Crafting decisions and I may even still be under the haze of one in particular.  I must say that some of those experiences have lessened my fears about "jumping into the deep end" now that I'm older but I know not to plunge into something in haste without doing a lot of preparation and meditation....I say that but I still lack patience sometimes.

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LOL  that's two of us.

 

We can't say that we're unprepared for the consequences anymore.  Even with that lack of patience we have an idea how far we're willing to go.

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( Emphasis is Mine )

 

 

I would suggest that a Witch learn another verbal language, or learn hand gestures not so readily " familiar ".  I feel it safe to say that we all have " our first Language ".. or we all accept the universal hand sign of " Thumbs Up / Okay ".  In some countries that " hand sign " of " Okay ".... is not accepted as a welcoming thing, it is a great insult. Some workings require a more powerful action verb, not just a fly by your pants verb that suits the emotion at the time. 

 

Take the word " Slaughter " for instance.  Brings up pictures.... right ?  It also means, to " nullify " , " quash ", " annul " .  What would that word ( Slaughter ) paint a picture of lets say in the Danish Language ?  Would it be as what the picture has been painted, in the English language ?  I'll be the first to admit that when I think or use the word " Slaughter".... that I sure didn't see the application to the word, " annul ", that word was a different picture all together.

 

Catch my drift ?

 

 

Regards,

Gypsy

 

 

I once tried a spell in French, when I was first learning it, and it went...interestingly. You must watch accents... for example, take the word "beaucoup". It means, "very much" essentially, as in "merci beaucoup" or "thank you very much". When I was first learning French, I pronounced it: "bow-cu" and was quickly told this was VERY MUCH SO not correct, the pronunciation was actually: "bow-cou". This matter because the way I pronounced it sounded like the words "beau cul" which essentially means "handsome ass".... I was saying, "thank you, handsome ass" :(

 

I did have success with making my own written language though! It took more effort to use it and in a way, changed my thinking to be very direct. It felt like I put more of myself and my intention into making it, sort of like making a sigil and the effort put into the construction...or crafts, and taking time on the project.

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I'm going to give my 2 cents worth on this topic. I think my opinion will be in the minority, but it is nonetheless the result of all my years of practice.

 

We all have our own gifts which we likely used before we "did a magick spell". If your natural gifts didn't cause harm, then why would beginning to practice witchcraft have anything to do with having to watch out for what you've done in a spell. You are still capitalizing on your gifts. The whole "dark side" is such a fabricated ruse invented by the fearful.

 

Some people fail to realize that bad things happen to people as a result of the universe just doing it's thing. Some bad thing that happens (after you have done a spell as a newbie) isn't the result of any oops you may have done in casting your spell. Magick coming back to you in a harmful way is called karma. And you know what karma is? It is from a completely different cultural belief system that has nothing to do with witches - unless you are an oriental witch.

 

I wouldn't walk down the street and hit a random person in the face just the same as I wouldn't cast a spell against some random person who I don't know, have never seen, who has absolutely relevance in my life.  Electricity in your wall outlet is neither good nor bad, it just is. And if you want to use that energy to hurt someone irrelevant than that is your choice. 

 

The old wise ones are going to tell you a few things. Firstly that a witch doesn't randomly do bad things to people who are irrelevant, Secondly to take responsibility for your actions while conducting the arts. Man up/Woman up or get out of the cauldron (pun intended). If you think you've been bewitched, then witch them back. And thirdly if you cause harm in an unintended way then it wasn't you who did it, it was either a witch against you, or it was just life - or a local person who needs a pitchfork in the neck. jk on the last one!

 

Anyway... a newbie isn't tapping into instant power they didn't have before, and your mind already knows what you are casting whether your mouth says the right words or not. 

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I once tried a spell in French, when I was first learning it, and it went...interestingly. You must watch accents... for example, take the word "beaucoup". It means, "very much" essentially, as in "merci beaucoup" or "thank you very much". When I was first learning French, I pronounced it: "bow-cu" and was quickly told this was VERY MUCH SO not correct, the pronunciation was actually: "bow-cou". This matter because the way I pronounced it sounded like the words "beau cul" which essentially means "handsome ass".... I was saying, "thank you, handsome ass" :sad:

 

 

 

 

:lolol:

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I'm going to give my 2 cents worth on this topic. I think my opinion will be in the minority, but it is nonetheless the result of all my years of practice.

 

We all have our own gifts which we likely used before we "did a magick spell". If your natural gifts didn't cause harm, then why would beginning to practice witchcraft have anything to do with having to watch out for what you've done in a spell. You are still capitalizing on your gifts.

 

Not all gifts awaken at the same time or at birth.  How would you know if anyone's natural gifts caused harm or not?  That's a broad generalization and not entirely accurate.

 

The whole "dark side" is such a fabricated ruse invented by the fearful.

 

I call bullshit on that.  I've walked on the Dark Side and occasionally go there to play.  I think that most everyone goes Dark Side for a while.  There are things that you can only learn there.  Not everyone comes back from it.  I don't fear it.  There have been times I've reveled in it. 

 

Some people fail to realize that bad things happen to people as a result of the universe just doing it's thing. Some bad thing that happens (after you have done a spell as a newbie) isn't the result of any oops you may have done in casting your spell. Magick coming back to you in a harmful way is called karma. And you know what karma is? It is from a completely different cultural belief system that has nothing to do with witches - unless you are an oriental witch.

 

Magic coming back to you in a bad way can also be a result of poor spellcrafting - especially when it's in direct relation to whatever spell was cast.  The amount of collateral damage that a witch is willing to live with will depend upon said witch's personal moral code and experience. 

 

I wouldn't walk down the street and hit a random person in the face just the same as I wouldn't cast a spell against some random person who I don't know, have never seen, who has absolutely relevance in my life.  Electricity in your wall outlet is neither good nor bad, it just is. And if you want to use that energy to hurt someone irrelevant than that is your choice. 

 

The old wise ones are going to tell you a few things.

 

My Grandmother was an Old, Wise One.  You shouldn't be speaking for her either.  Honestly, I find that sentence irritates the shit out of me.  Who are you to speak for an entire group of people that you are not a part of?  Do you have any idea that the Old, Wise Ones would tell different things to different people based on where they were on their path?  That what one may have said to you is not what they would have said to another?  The next paragraph where you give the advice of the Old Ones isn't what I was taught.

 

Firstly that a witch doesn't randomly do bad things to people who are irrelevant,

This is going to depend entirely upon each individual witch and their own scruples and moral code.  For the most part, waste not want not, fits well here.  Why waste energy on someone/thing that's completely irrelevant?  Sometimes they do - it's called target practice.

 

Secondly to take responsibility for your actions while conducting the arts. Man up/Woman up or get out of the cauldron (pun intended). If you think you've been bewitched, then witch them back.

This really should be 2 and 3.  I agree with taking responsibility for ones actions - whether they be mundane or magical.

 

The latter is bad advice.  If you think you've been bewitched - do your research.  Why would someone be after you?  Think long and hard if it's in retaliation to something your actually done.  You know - that personal responsibility thing.  I never suggest going off half cocked when one thinks they're being attacked.  That's just a really bad battle plan.

 

And thirdly if you cause harm in an unintended way then it wasn't you who did it, it was either a witch against you, or it was just life - or a local person who needs a pitchfork in the neck. jk on the last one!

What a wonderful cop-out that is.  According to this I could do a piss poor spell, suck at accuracy and when it doesn't work as planned I can blame it on Life.  Please.

 

Anyway... a newbie isn't tapping into instant power they didn't have before, and your mind already knows what you are casting whether your mouth says the right words or not. 

Again - these should be 2 separate points.

 

Really?  Are you absolutely sure about that in every single situation?  Damn!  You must See far and wide.

 

It happens.  Specific inherent gifts can wake up, doors within oneself can open and BAM!  you have a new set of abilities and have to figure out how to use them.

 

Your intention, if not backed by your wording, can wreck havoc.  I've helped people clean up the messes they've made because of sloppy spellcasting.  I had to clean up my own when I first started casting.

 

 

 

 

(edited to bold the red.  too hard to read in the quote box)

 

(still too hard to read.  switched to blue)

Edited by RoseRed
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Some bad thing that happens (after you have done a spell as a newbie) isn't the result of any oops you may have done in casting your spell.

 

Sorry Alex, I have to disagree here. People can miscast spells and have bad things happen to them as a result. Magic is a skill and not everyone gets it perfectly right out of the gate. I have had tons of bad things happen to me as the result of poorly cast spells, and it wasn't all the universe just giving me a spanking, either. I feel that you are suggesting here that witches can never miscast magic and that anything bad which happens is just a random hiccup of the universe that day, but this is something I don't agree with. I'm with you on the karma thing though, I don't see that has being relevant to witchcraft.

 

 

Anyway... a newbie isn't tapping into instant power they didn't have before, and your mind already knows what you are casting whether your mouth says the right words or not.

 

Yeah, but they ARE trying to consciously control it for the first time. I can kind of agree that when the power is unconscious it is more 'pure to form' and it is harder to screw up (except you may not understand what you're getting yourself in to), but when you decide to take the reins and try it for yourself, you may get bucked from the horse a few times. I'd have to say my worst magical disasters were when my mind had one idea and my words were saying another, so in my experience I can't trust intent to get things right for me.

 

 

The whole "dark side" is such a fabricated ruse invented by the fearful.

 

I think I disagree with you. I say 'think' because I don't think I've ever been there. But, having practiced for over twenty years, perhaps you may agree that the craft is not just all love and light? Dark parts do exist, and while they can be propagated by the fearful they are also propagated by those who have been there and want to warn others. Surely you do not counsel your students that they can never miscast a spell and that 'dark' magic doesn't exist?

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