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New Witches and the Danger of Witchcraft


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#21 Wexler

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Posted 01 June 2014 - 04:15 PM

A few of my thoughts on this.

 

I think what Wexler experienced is mainly due to one's desire/will that is put into the working/spell not being exactly what one had in mind when having the desire/want/need. The powers that are put in motion, I think, are quite literal and not discerning in the witch's desire, in other words - what one puts into motion is what one gets. The old cliche 'be careful what you wish for, you may just get it', is very applicable in the craft.

 

In Wexler's example about facing her fear(s), that is what happened. The spell put forces into motion that resulted in things she fears being put before her - most likely not exactly what she had in mind though. Probably what she had in mind (and I'm just assuming here) was to not be afraid any longer of what she presently fears. Along that line of thought, one would have to be more 'specific and literal' in the spell, and make sure it is really what one wants in as many respects as one can think of. Also, not being fearful is not quite the same as no fear. A reasonable level of fear I call 'caution', for example, I want to go into the forest at night and not be afraid is well and dandy, but to enter without research and taking pre-cautions could get one killed in the forest. I think that doing this research and taking the precautions is the precursor to not having an incapacitating fear of something. There will still be risks, and that's where contingency plans can be assistance.

 

One last thought on the matter - it happens to both new and experienced witches, but probably a little more often and intense than that of experienced witches (now)...and that my dearies is how one gets experienced, LOL (although it sure helps to have a mentor saying - I wouldn't do it exactly that way if I were you while wagging his/her index finger at you, lol).

 

The emphasis above is my own. This I very much agree with. A lesson I need to learn is how to set the correct energies in to motion, not to do whatever "seems right" and trust that I have tugged on the right threads. For me, there is a distinct difference between intuition/deep feelings and my conscious mind saying "this is probably a good way to get these results." Unfortunately it is easy for me to confuse the two.

 

When I got my big girl panties on and said "I'm going to face my fears," probably what I intended was a short and relatively painless episode where I simply gained a deeper understanding of my fear and therefore conquered it. Instead I literally have been put in front of my fears and I get to find my way out, like tossing a kid in to the pool to teach him how to swim. So yep, I did not at all think ahead. In the end, this is probably the much better way to really confront your fears. But the fact still stands that I got myself in to something without realizing the consequences, which is not an admirable thing to do.

 

Thank you, Wexler, for this post! I must admit, I have not thought too much about the bad, unintended consequences of spells, promises, and declarations of intent. I have been thinking lately about how if one tells the truth and only speaks the truth then simple words can hold tremendous power. One can actually create things! I have always found this point to be a place of relief, peace, and excitement. I have used this power a couple of times in the past to create some wonderful changes in mine and my wife's lives. After reading your posts and the comments, I will now put much more thought into the dangers as well. Thank you!

 

I have a great story about creating things with the power of words and thought, without using actual spells. I find it to be highly braggy (and a little unbelievable) though so it is not always the best to share. At the end of the story, everything went perfectly and there were no downsides or disasters. So I don't believe that every project or new experiment will implode, or that everything has to go wrong. Just some things, some times, will inevitably not work and you have to sort out the mess. Just like in any skill. I guess the main difference is that in cooking, disasters are contained in the kitchen - in witchcraft, the disaster zone is our entire lives.


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#22 witchywolf

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Posted 03 June 2014 - 07:25 AM

i'm kind of in the same spot you are wexler, i never had a real problem with the dark growing up, other then wild animals. but now after the last year i'm starting to take a deep breath and stick my foot back in the water lol it's relieving to relate to someone else :)


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#23 Kayt

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 02:36 AM

Wexler - sorry that you're going through that! My witchy heart breaks for your suffering.

 

Your post made me think a LOT, though.

 

Fear is such a good tool for a new witch. Fear prevents the "it can't happen to me" and the "I'm so small, I can't affect anything" syndrome. But I had the opposite reaction when I first joined these forums. After reading and reading and reading, I was so fearful of the "not very specific evils" that lurked out there. I became fearful every time I did a working. I became fearful of the workings I hadn't even dreamt of yet! I was so spooked about dealing with spirits (both GOOD and bad), I became consumed with fear, unsure of anything and I was basically paralyzed before my path truly started.

 

I found a very offbeat mentor in real life who follows an extremely different path than I. She provided me protection, safe surroundings and ultimately got me in touch with my spirit guides.

 

I've come back to the forums after a time away, I am thrilled with my knowledge base and I am now ready to explore more.

 

Fear is good. Until it's bad. I think the ultimate goal is to be mindful. Like it or not, you will affect the universe!

 

Edit:typos!


Edited by Kayt, 10 June 2014 - 02:44 AM.

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#24 SerpentWitch

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 01:08 PM

I think I'm not fearful enough. Sure, I've got some protection set up, but I usually trust on my ability to react to events instead of protecting myself. On the other hand, I doubt my abilities a lot. I always think I'm not powerful enough to do stuff.


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#25 DusterGalaxy

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 02:33 AM

This is one of the things that scares me about starting on this path.  I'm afraid of losing things I hold dear to me (example: my boyfriend) due to some kind of retribution from magic.  I plan to avoid that by not performing any love/relationship spells (not on us, and not on others!), or any spells with him for that matter.  I still get slightly anxious thinking about how other spells might affect that area of my life.  Am I overthinking it in that regard? (it wouldn't be the first time I'd overthought things in relationships!)


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#26 Wexler

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 05:12 AM

Damnit Galaxy, I'm trying to go to bed but I have a terrible addiction to reply to to posts of threads I started!

 

I do not think it is about RETRIBUTION. I think it is about making a stupid mistake and having it splash on to your life.

 

It's kind of like working with a computer, and witches are the computer savvy. Once you start pulling up OS files and rewriting code by hand, you can accidentally mess things up. And like programming, it is really really hard to know how to do things correctly until you finally get down to writing your own programs.

 

As an inexperienced witch, trying to cast spells on people you are close to may not be a good idea, at least the way I see it. Until I have a good amount of experience I'm not about to try and edit the source code of my relationship files, you know? So I think your decision in that regard is not unsound. You shouldn't go fiddling with things important to you unless you know what you're doing.

 

At the same time, I think it is important to overcome anxiety about your magic messing up. If you cast a spell for one thing, and in the back of your mind it is constantly replaying that this spell will destroy your relationship somehow... well, it probably will now that you've filled it with that anxious energy. I've never worried about magic ruining my relationships and it never has. I don't cast to directly affect the people I love, either, which probably helps.

 

Perhaps you could do some soul-searching to help yourself understand why you are having these fears. You could also work with VERY specific magic with no room for interpretation to reduce the chances that the magic will creep in to your relationship. You could build a basic protection around your relationship as a 'splash shield', or in every spell you could include a caveat that in no way will your relationship be affected. Try divining before spells to help understand the effects it will have on your life.

 

In my opinion, however, a lot of magic "retribution" isn't from the magic itself. It happens because you didn't have the foresight to see what you were actually asking for. If I cast a spell for my friends to be happy and it ends up causing them to break up and they're both miserable for a year before they finally move on - that wasn't "retribution". That was me being too stupid to realize that in order to be truly happy, they needed to break up. So really think about the effects your (specifically worded) spells will have. Think about the normal human reactions people will have due to them. Magic can do things unexpectedly, but short-sightedness I think causes a hell of a lot more "karmic justice" than the magic itself does.


Edited by Wexler, 24 July 2014 - 05:12 AM.

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'Sir,' I said to the universe, 'I exist.'

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#27 Aurelian

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 10:13 AM

You don't need to be fearful Serpent, just informed and cautious, rather than these people who want to do everything at once...which is just hubris, and is arrogant.


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"The truth about the world, he said, is that anything is possible. Had you not seen it from birth and thereby bled it of its strangeness it would appear to you for what it is, a hat trick in a medicine show, a fevered dream, a trance bepopulate with chimeras having neither analogue nor precedent, an itinerant carnival, a migratory tentshow whose ultimate destination after many a pitch in many a mudded field is unspeakable and calamitous beyond reckoning." - Cormac McCarthy

#28 Nikki

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 01:58 PM

That's so true, Aurelian. 

 

Not believing you are powerful enough can get someone into hot water too.

 

Also, I think being aware that universe has a way of being a trickster....  sometimes acting like a total dick....lol.... 

 

....delivering spells at the worst possible moment, wrapped in irony, sealed with inconvenience and a note that reads,"GOT YA -- on a technicality...." is a worthy mention.

 

Your magic worked, but WTH?

 

*chuckles*

 

Own the chaos.... 'cause it does happen sometimes.


Edited by Nikki, 24 July 2014 - 02:00 PM.

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#29 DusterGalaxy

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 06:31 PM

Damnit Galaxy, I'm trying to go to bed but I have a terrible addiction to reply to to posts of threads I started!

 

I do not think it is about RETRIBUTION. I think it is about making a stupid mistake and having it splash on to your life.

 

It's kind of like working with a computer, and witches are the computer savvy. Once you start pulling up OS files and rewriting code by hand, you can accidentally mess things up. And like programming, it is really really hard to know how to do things correctly until you finally get down to writing your own programs.

 

As an inexperienced witch, trying to cast spells on people you are close to may not be a good idea, at least the way I see it. Until I have a good amount of experience I'm not about to try and edit the source code of my relationship files, you know? So I think your decision in that regard is not unsound. You shouldn't go fiddling with things important to you unless you know what you're doing.

 

At the same time, I think it is important to overcome anxiety about your magic messing up. If you cast a spell for one thing, and in the back of your mind it is constantly replaying that this spell will destroy your relationship somehow... well, it probably will now that you've filled it with that anxious energy. I've never worried about magic ruining my relationships and it never has. I don't cast to directly affect the people I love, either, which probably helps.

 

Perhaps you could do some soul-searching to help yourself understand why you are having these fears. You could also work with VERY specific magic with no room for interpretation to reduce the chances that the magic will creep in to your relationship. You could build a basic protection around your relationship as a 'splash shield', or in every spell you could include a caveat that in no way will your relationship be affected. Try divining before spells to help understand the effects it will have on your life.

 

In my opinion, however, a lot of magic "retribution" isn't from the magic itself. It happens because you didn't have the foresight to see what you were actually asking for. If I cast a spell for my friends to be happy and it ends up causing them to break up and they're both miserable for a year before they finally move on - that wasn't "retribution". That was me being too stupid to realize that in order to be truly happy, they needed to break up. So really think about the effects your (specifically worded) spells will have. Think about the normal human reactions people will have due to them. Magic can do things unexpectedly, but short-sightedness I think causes a hell of a lot more "karmic justice" than the magic itself does.

 

If I can't sleep, no one can!!  Muahahahaha!  :vhappywitch:   I think my anxiety around the matter will decrease as I continue learning and researching and such.  I don't plan to do any spells on those close to me for a good while yet, and I'll make sure to really think over what it is I'm doing before I do it.  What's this basic protection you're talking about?  Same sort of idea as a "white light" protection for the self?


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#30 Wexler

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 07:34 PM

I think everyone would go about it in their own way. I think that going that route has a greater possibility of error, because putting a shield around something often seems to control it in some way. Since I like working with words I might just literally write out something that says "my relationship with X is shielded from being affected by my magic." And work with it whenever I need to to keep the effect going. But if you make something like that, don't forget about it... for example it may mean that while all your friends and family are benefiting from work you do, he may not. Or if you do self-work to be a better person, your relationship with him may not be able to improve or grow as a result of that. I think this is a neat point of discussion, we should go to chat and talk about it some time!
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'Sir,' I said to the universe, 'I exist.'

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#31 Aurelian

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 08:09 PM

Controlling your environment is living in the splash zone of your will, as it is.  You are going to affect your loved ones and family one way or another..what's the difference with words, or a spell?  They are both your intent.  Weighed risk?  I guess it depends on YOUR particular skills....


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"The truth about the world, he said, is that anything is possible. Had you not seen it from birth and thereby bled it of its strangeness it would appear to you for what it is, a hat trick in a medicine show, a fevered dream, a trance bepopulate with chimeras having neither analogue nor precedent, an itinerant carnival, a migratory tentshow whose ultimate destination after many a pitch in many a mudded field is unspeakable and calamitous beyond reckoning." - Cormac McCarthy

#32 DusterGalaxy

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 10:01 PM

I think everyone would go about it in their own way. I think that going that route has a greater possibility of error, because putting a shield around something often seems to control it in some way. Since I like working with words I might just literally write out something that says "my relationship with X is shielded from being affected by my magic." And work with it whenever I need to to keep the effect going. But if you make something like that, don't forget about it... for example it may mean that while all your friends and family are benefiting from work you do, he may not. Or if you do self-work to be a better person, your relationship with him may not be able to improve or grow as a result of that. I think this is a neat point of discussion, we should go to chat and talk about it some time!

 

This is all true.  I'm definitely interested in going to the chat about it, I'm curious to see what other people's experiences have been on this issue and how they (if they) avoided it.

 

Controlling your environment is living in the splash zone of your will, as it is.  You are going to affect your loved ones and family one way or another..what's the difference with words, or a spell?  They are both your intent.  Weighed risk?  I guess it depends on YOUR particular skills....

 

Ah, there's so much to consider.  Better to think about all this ahead of time rather than in hindsight I suppose!


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#33 RoseRed

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 11:12 PM

Oh, yeah, it really is.


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#34 Autumn Moon

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 01:41 AM

ime, you get what you ask for.

 

Some, say magic comes about in unexpected ways, which can be true to an extent. But, often, the witch did not fully realize what the wording of the spell was actually putting into action. The witch had one thing in his/her mind, and something else came out of their mouth/hand, which was not congruent with what they had in their mind. Also, to know how to make them congruent is dependent on knowing as much as you can about the situation at hand, for example DG's example of the spell for the couple's happiness. Divination can help this.


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#35 Wexler

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 07:14 PM

Duster Galaxy, I think it is hard to really understand how to control your magic and minimize collateral damage until you start working with it a bit. In a post above I complained that I did some magic that got me in to hot water - and because I really (albeit unwittingly) involved lots of magic in my life, my knowledge of magic has grown in leaps and bounds. You have to get a bit of magic rolling in your life before you can truly begin to understand how to work with it safely, imo. So while foresight is a very good thing, I think at some point it is limited until a certain amount of experience is thrown in.


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'Sir,' I said to the universe, 'I exist.'

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#36 RoseRed

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 08:26 PM

Or you could jump in the deep end and either sink or swim.  That happens, too, sometimes.


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#37 Wexler

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 09:37 PM

Or you could jump in the deep end and either sink or swim.  That happens, too, sometimes.

Well, yes :D but at this particular juncture, I would feel amiss to advise that.


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'Sir,' I said to the universe, 'I exist.'

'That,' said the universe, 'creates no sense of obligation in me whatsoever.'

 

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#38 DusterGalaxy

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 10:03 PM

Duster Galaxy, I think it is hard to really understand how to control your magic and minimize collateral damage until you start working with it a bit. In a post above I complained that I did some magic that got me in to hot water - and because I really (albeit unwittingly) involved lots of magic in my life, my knowledge of magic has grown in leaps and bounds. You have to get a bit of magic rolling in your life before you can truly begin to understand how to work with it safely, imo. So while foresight is a very good thing, I think at some point it is limited until a certain amount of experience is thrown in.

 

I'm doing slow integration now.  I'm usually one to jump right into things head first, but lately I've been a slow mover, in all areas.  I find this method works best in my life.  For instance, right now I'm reading everything I can get my hands on about witchcraft and paganism.  I've been doing Tarot much more often, been practicing grounding, shielding, contacting my spirit guide, etc.  When I move, I plan to set up an altar, do some simple spells, etc.  I think this slow moving actually indicates I might be maturing as a person, haha.  I'm excited more than anxious, because I know if I tread carefully and think things through I should be fine.  And if things aren't fine, they'll come to pass.  


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#39 Nikki

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 10:43 PM

Sounds like a great plan DG :) Very exciting indeed !!! We all learn as we go. 


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The difference between Medicine and Poison is the Dose. :oil-bottle:
I Love you as certain Dark Things are to be Loved,
In Secret, Between the Shadow and the Soul.
- Pablo Neruda


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Posted 25 July 2014 - 11:55 PM

This is all true.  I'm definitely interested in going to the chat about it, I'm curious to see what other people's experiences have been on this issue and how they (if they) avoided it.

 

 

Ah, there's so much to consider.  Better to think about all this ahead of time rather than in hindsight I suppose!

 

 

One thing i've found over the years is that we spend hours thinking about our workings before hand, then spend hours evaluating the results after its done.  In a lot of ways it seems like we're research professors in the university of the universe.  Study and formulate our theories and assumptions, test and record all aspects, evaluate what went as we though, what went differently than we though or hoped and what went wrong and hopefully why.  Analyze it all and try to refine the process and practice and see what aspects we can tweek or substitute other things into to make it work under other conditions to get the same results.  All the while trying not to either go nuts or appear as if were nuts.

 

I have to admit as someone older it is refreshing and stimulating to a degree to watch the generations coming behind as they discover things and find themselves in the process.  As Nikki says above, well Nikki and Wexler, Rosered, etc all say sounds like a good plan you got going there.


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