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Attacked, Being Attacked and Spiritualism


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#1 Guest_monsnoleedra_*

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 07:30 PM

Wexler asked me a question about shamanic practices so hopefully it is ok that I share some of these things with the board.

 

Of the many things I have come to understand and / or experience as I walk my path none has been more influencing than that of the concept of being attacked.  Not just the concept of “attack” itself as the word implies but the many forms and manners that one may experience a so called “attack”.

 

One facet that tends to be a reoccurring notion in the shamanic field in my experience is the notion of attack and the perception or belief of being attacked.  A situation or event that occurs upon the physical plain and many time on the realms and plains that one may encounter during journeywork. Yes, even when one explores the inner realities of self and faces their own shadow self and shadow totems. 

 

Yet one must ask themselves, is an attack or being attacked a truth? Many times one finds that the sensation of being attacked is more of a self-influenced idea than an actual attack. They see and believe an attack shall occur then see every situation as a manifestation of that belief. The random bee sting suddenly becomes a directed attack upon them. The random encounter with some creature suddenly viewed as everything other than what it was.  Almost becoming a self-fulfilling prophesy as what one expects is seen to take shape and form.

 

The other thing to my perspective is many fail to realize the difference between being tested and being attacked. In older culture's one often found their power animal or totem animal by surviving an attack by said creature. Concepts that in todays go into meditation and call your totem a far cry from how many cultures actually viewed it.  No, in practice one actually experienced an attack that may have occurred upon the physical plain or in journey work.  An attack that may serve to test the body and spirit of the one being chosen or called. For instance while I have never been attacked in the physical by wolf I have been attacked in the journey plain and marked by them.

 

Yet snake has initiated attacks on me in both the physical world and in journey work.   Snake medicine showing through Black snakes that coil up and strike, Copper Heads that suddenly appear before me and block my path, corn snakes that just appear as I am tracking a deer, water snakes both on shore and in the water. Over and over have they appeared as I have faced their shadow magic’s, lessening as I come to know them and see their lessons.

 

In journey I have been struck by rattlesnake, bitten and held by python and or Boa (not sure of the difference actually).  Faced what I can only describe as a great Naga, weaving and dancing before its gaze.  Sometimes dying in the attack, other times becoming deathly sick for the duration of the dream / journey work.  Other times physically becoming ill and manifesting it upon the material plain as the dream / journey test influences me.

 

Trees were one of my most hurtful teachers and attackers. I can't speak of the number of times I fell from one, ran into one or slide down a slope and ended wrapped up in one. Yet once I started to understand tree and its lessons on the surface I started to understand its medicine and magic’s. The lessons of bending before the wind vice breaking before it. The idea of having a firm foundation and deep roots less I be plucked up and pulled away easily, especially upon a spiritual pathway. Even the lesson of fighting when one needs to fight but also turning the other way when fighting is not the right way to change the situation or area.

 

It seems to me that so many seem to think that some form of attack is going to happen or is occurring that they create the situations themselves.  So positive that they are being attacked that every shimmer is a servitor, every flicker is an enshrouded enemy, every sound the approach of something out to get them.  While there are many things that seek to engage us, test us and perhaps even attack and destroy us we cannot think or assume it to be the case each time.

 

Yes Spirit and the many forms it takes often does test us. We are tested for bravery, were tested for compassion, for anger, for passion on and on the list goes. If we are lucky enough to pass all the tests and the creature doing the testing thinks we are worthy they may choose us and mark us. If not mark then takes us under their wing for some lessons in life and living and teaches us their magic’s and power.

 

Some testing so painful that one just might ask why?  Some testing so destroying of one’s self that it seems there can be no reason.  Some testing truly serving the purpose to dismember and see if we can survive their teachings.  However, sometimes a bee sting is just a bee sting and simply means we stepped on it or caused it to respond from being threatened.

 

Yet the first of all lessons they teach is that an attack is not always an attack, sometimes it’s simply a lesson or teaching. What we think of as attacks and being attacked is far more frequently a product of our own imagination and thinking than any formal attack upon us.  That Spirit doesn’t have to send a bogey man to attack us for we manage to create that scenario on our own as we assume we are being attacked.

 

But one must also be aware that a test can be quite painful and appear as an attack though it is not the intent of the creature testing you!

 

At times the notion of a disability is an attack upon both our physical body but also upon the mental imagery we possess of our own self.  Today one of the most difficult attacks I’ve suffered as the physical has manifested in the present and I now am disabled.

 

For me it is an ongoing attack that I must face daily in the physical experience of pain and discomfort.  It’s a psychological battle as I forever struggle against the pangs of what was versus what I have become and what I am able or unable to physically do.

 

I admit there are times I hover upon the brink and wish to surrender to the sense of loss and pain that marks my days.  The deep frustration experienced from no longer being able to do so many simple daily actions of living.  Things that I once could do without though or consideration of how I was able to do so, today incapable of doing.

 

Years ago Wolf ripped my spine from my body and left me lying upon the ground to realize my inability to move.  To know and experience the helplessness of life when denied our agility and mobility. Today my military lifestyle resulted in the same injuries as wolf so long ago foretold in its dismemberment of my body during a shamanic death.  Legs that don’t support me and fail me with no regard for my desires.  A spine whose actions play crack the whip with my body or send spasms that wrack me like some victim upon a barbaric torture device.  Limitations inflicted upon me that reduce my perception of self and self-worth before the world at large and within.

 

All examples of the notion of flight, fright or fight as we experience life.  Things which enable us to better connected to guides, so called totems, etc.  Conditions which enable us to understand how we must observe those about us and perhaps understand them as they seek to overcome the debilitating bodies, minds and spirits that they have become.

 

Yet I admit this is one lesson I’d not care to have to endure.  For the outlook of my life does not seem promising for tomorrow as I reflect upon my yesterday’s I have already lived. 

 

But it is all part and parcel of the notion of being attacked, dismembered and put back together for some reason that is often beyond the scope of our awareness or to enhance the spiritual pathway we walk and how we understand our place upon it and those we journey with.


Edited by monsnoleedra, 18 April 2014 - 10:03 PM.

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#2 Guest_monsnoleedra_*

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 10:01 PM

Note this was supposed to be a revision to the post dated  12 Apr 2014 http://www.tradition...being-attacked/ but somehow I ended up creating a whole new thread.  It would be greatly appreciated if a mod or admin could delete the 12 Apr 2014 thread.  Sorry for the inconvenience this has caused.


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#3 travsha

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 10:42 PM

Attacks are very prevalent in shamanism - I even heard one shaman say that the first few times she extracts a evil spirit harming someone, she will send that spirit to the crossroads to bring her a few more costumers.  Once she extracts the same spirit 3 times, then she gets rid of it the right way!  Talk about business insurance!

 

As far as animals attacking.....  I always had the feeling the spirits working with me were attacking things within me more then attacking me.  I remember a couple early on ceremonies where I thought I was being attacked, but looking back later, I saw that they were attacking the walls I had built around my heart.  In this way, the attack was actually a healing.  Your experience sounds a bit different though, which is understandable since I think we draw influences from different regions.....


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Posted 18 April 2014 - 10:57 PM

A lot of times I agree the attacks actually serve to cause you to heal.  Either by destroying and tearing out the infection or tearing away aspects so the self can heal.  IN other situations I know the attacks are the creature testing you to decide if you are worthy of its teachings.  Wolf has torn me to shreds a number of times which matches the other things that have occurred dealing with Wolf.  Perhaps I'll share a story about wolf and wolf dancers. http://www.tradition...n-the-mountain/


Edited by monsnoleedra, 18 April 2014 - 11:09 PM.

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#5 Aurelian

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 04:48 AM

This post is quite interesting.  Have you considered that these attacks are manifestations of your own attending spirits?  They will give you what you NEED rather than what you want.  Just a point to consider.


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"The truth about the world, he said, is that anything is possible. Had you not seen it from birth and thereby bled it of its strangeness it would appear to you for what it is, a hat trick in a medicine show, a fevered dream, a trance bepopulate with chimeras having neither analogue nor precedent, an itinerant carnival, a migratory tentshow whose ultimate destination after many a pitch in many a mudded field is unspeakable and calamitous beyond reckoning." - Cormac McCarthy

#6 RoseRed

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 01:53 PM

Have you considered that these attacks are manifestations of your own attending spirits?  They will give you what you NEED rather than what you want

 

 

 

Yeah, no shit!  LOL  +1

 

It's not always pleasant.


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#7 Nikki

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Posted 05 May 2014 - 05:07 PM

This is indeed a very interesting post... with some many different points to consider and ponder.

 

Knowing the difference between an Attack and a Test, I imagine is the start of being able to discern ones response to the experience. Sometimes we need to defend ourselves, other times we need to watch, listen and learn. Knowing how to proceed is very hard to do.

 

Some Tests, in my experience, were absolutely designed to TEAR APART and DESTROY... which could/can feel like an Attack. I guess many of us have been there/done that. Not easy. But useful as far as learning goes.

 

How do you know what you're made of, until everything is taken away? Health, included. 

 

AS far as Attending Spirits attacking... I'm not so sure. Good food for thought, tho. I've witnessed Attending Spirits being more helpful than not.

 

I wonder what others have experienced with this...

 

HAHA, since when do we get what we want? j/k

 

But getting what we need... yeah. Although sometimes that's hard to see... especially when it comes to chronic pain and/or disability. 

 

And yes... sometimes a bee sting is just that !!! The only time I've been stung -- I sat on a bee at picnic. LOL, that was more humous than painful, for sure. 


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Posted 05 May 2014 - 06:02 PM

This post is quite interesting.  Have you considered that these attacks are manifestations of your own attending spirits?  They will give you what you NEED rather than what you want.  Just a point to consider.

 

 

Darn didn't realize I missed this one.  Sorry about the delay.

 

I know the worse situation I ever found myself in regarding being trained or attacked occurred with my own attending allies.  You sort of think, hey your supposed to be here to help me and inside your inflicting pain on me that is more than my mind can handle.  Well at least seems more than you can handle at the time.  More of the you run till you can't run, then you walk till you can't walk, then you crawl till you can't crawl even if it means biting at the ground and using your teeth to pull you along.  Then you sort of stop fighting and say ok show me what it is I am supposed to be doing.  Then those same allies who tore you apart aid in putting you back together.

 

The ones that really get me are contrary or shadow type allies.  Your already afraid of them and many times mistrust them because of their contrary or shadow aspects.  Ironic part is that there are many times they are actually more caring and forgiving towards you than those you think should be caring and forging towards you.

Though I have to admit I'd rather be attacked in dream or journey time vice having an encounter in the physical to re-enforce a lesson. 


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Posted 05 May 2014 - 06:06 PM

This is indeed a very interesting post... with some many different points to consider and ponder.

 

Knowing the difference between an Attack and a Test, I imagine is the start of being able to discern ones response to the experience. Sometimes we need to defend ourselves, other times we need to watch, listen and learn. Knowing how to proceed is very hard to do.

 

Some Tests, in my experience, were absolutely designed to TEAR APART and DESTROY... which could/can feel like an Attack. I guess many of us have been there/done that. Not easy. But useful as far as learning goes.

 

How do you know what you're made of, until everything is taken away? Health, included. 

 

AS far as Attending Spirits attacking... I'm not so sure. Good food for thought, tho. I've witnessed Attending Spirits being more helpful than not.

 

I wonder what others have experienced with this...

 

HAHA, since when do we get what we want? j/k

 

But getting what we need... yeah. Although sometimes that's hard to see... especially when it comes to chronic pain and/or disability. 

 

And yes... sometimes a bee sting is just that !!! The only time I've been stung -- I sat on a bee at picnic. LOL, that was more humous than painful, for sure. 

 

 

I think a lot of times when an attending spirit attacks its to heal and it does hurt.  Something like treating a burn victim, you have to hurt them as you peel away the burnt and dead skin in order for the new to grow in healthy.  Yes the scar is there and you have to live with it but the scar also reminds of what occurred.  I'd like to think it all serves to make us stronger or some such statement but many times I don't think it makes us stronger as much as it simply serves to prepare the vessel for what it shall be used for.  Yes in some ways it makes you stronger but I think it many times may give a false sense of strength vice functionality and usage.


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#10 Nikki

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Posted 06 May 2014 - 01:11 AM

I think a lot of times when an attending spirit attacks its to heal and it does hurt.  Something like treating a burn victim, you have to hurt them as you peel away the burnt and dead skin in order for the new to grow in healthy.  Yes the scar is there and you have to live with it but the scar also reminds of what occurred.  I'd like to think it all serves to make us stronger or some such statement but many times I don't think it makes us stronger as much as it simply serves to prepare the vessel for what it shall be used for.  Yes in some ways it makes you stronger but I think it many times may give a false sense of strength vice functionality and usage.

 

 

huh?


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The difference between Medicine and Poison is the Dose. :oil-bottle:
I Love you as certain Dark Things are to be Loved,
In Secret, Between the Shadow and the Soul.
- Pablo Neruda


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Posted 06 May 2014 - 01:44 AM

huh?

 

 

I was responding to your statement about helping spirits being more helpful than not.  They help but many times it is amazingly painful when they help and it digs deep into us.  Why I choose the analogy to a burn patient and how they have to inflict pain upon us in order to help us heal.  Everything I know about burns is it is extremely painful during the healing process and how the old skin has to be cut away or peeled off as part of the process.  But perhaps I missed the target all together it seems.


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#12 Nikki

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Posted 06 May 2014 - 02:00 PM

I was responding to your statement about helping spirits being more helpful than not.  They help but many times it is amazingly painful when they help and it digs deep into us.  Why I choose the analogy to a burn patient and how they have to inflict pain upon us in order to help us heal.  Everything I know about burns is it is extremely painful during the healing process and how the old skin has to be cut away or peeled off as part of the process.  But perhaps I missed the target all together it seems.

 

Thanks for clarifying. What's confusing to me : The burn is the Attack...no? And the Healing (done by Attending Spirits) although painful is healing? Correct?


Edited by Nikki, 06 May 2014 - 02:00 PM.

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The difference between Medicine and Poison is the Dose. :oil-bottle:
I Love you as certain Dark Things are to be Loved,
In Secret, Between the Shadow and the Soul.
- Pablo Neruda


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Posted 06 May 2014 - 02:14 PM

Thanks for clarifying. What's confusing to me : The burn is the Attack...no? And the Healing (done by Attending Spirits) although painful is healing? Correct?

 

 

Very much so.  The burn would be the attack regardless of who the attacker was.  The healing aspect would be what is done by ones attending spirits to help you get over it.  Where it gets iffy is when ones attending spirit is a contrary or shadow aspect.  In such cases then they would be the one to cause the burn in order for you to overcome it.

Consider for instance that snake was a contrary for me.  A fear that was instilled simply at the site of one and how it made me feel.  So snake in dream time or journey work attacks me, inflicts pain and suffering  to make me face its negative traits.  In facing those traits and attacks I come to better understand snake,face my fears of snake and overcome those fears to see snake differently than prior to the attack / injury phase.  So snake then becomes an attending spirit but also a harming spirit in order to make me stronger and more connected to snakes presence.


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#14 Nikki

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Posted 06 May 2014 - 02:32 PM

Gotcha... I think dream states are easier to figure, for me anyway. Real life Attacks and how Attending Spirits act is a different thing. Or at least, I've not made that connection other than 'premonition' or 'warning' of things to come... which I find very helpfull. Like you said, it can prepare you. 

 

I'm not Shaman so seeing from a Shaman's prospective is interesting, but a blurry view. Sorry for being so dense. Is it fair to say that hindsight is 20/20?


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I Love you as certain Dark Things are to be Loved,
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Posted 06 May 2014 - 03:13 PM

Gotcha... I think dream states are easier to figure, for me anyway. Real life Attacks and how Attending Spirits act is a different thing. Or at least, I've not made that connection other than 'premonition' or 'warning' of things to come... which I find very helpfull. Like you said, it can prepare you. 

 

I'm not Shaman so seeing from a Shaman's prospective is interesting, but a blurry view. Sorry for being so dense. Is it fair to say that hindsight is 20/20?

 

 

Not dense at all.  I do agree that hindsight is 20/20.

 

It used to be said that critical lessons or tests would be faced in the spiritual and in the physical.  That a spirit entity might even manifest upon the physical and take its shape to engage and attack its subject.  In many societies you'd hear about warrior's or healers being attacked by their guides or totems.  Actual attacks that the person nearly died in by bears, wolves, even poisons and such from plants.  Makes you wonder at times if those who were attacked and died did so because they failed what ever lesson their guide was trying to teach?

 

I recall a lesson from my youth about not running away and attracting the attention of a wild animal.  I was running one day and a dog got me behind the knee and about crippled me with its bite and where it got me at.  Ever since then I do not run from animals but walk away or turn my eyes down a bit if its wild so as not to act like I am challenging it.  I had run a few times in dreams that I vaguely recall from the time but until that dog took me down it didn't really register.


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#16 Nikki

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 04:58 PM

 It used to be said that critical lessons or tests would be faced in the spiritual and in the physical. That is the true test !!!  One that permeates on all levels... from my vantage point, anyway.  Even if physical must occur for the spirits benefit.  

 

Aside: Whenever I run in dreams, I project.... Every time !!! A land animal has yet to 'get' me... lol. 

 

 No, in practice one actually experienced an attack that may have occurred upon the physical plain or in journey work.  An attack that may serve to test the body and spirit of the one being chosen or called. For instance while I have never been attacked in the physical by wolf I have been attacked in the journey plain and marked by them.

 

The first Shaman I  knew was 'attacked' by a trusted horse, nearly killing him/her.... an attack seen as meant to KILL...  It's one of those freak accident and miracle rescue stories. Without outside help... death was all but certain. 

 

This attack is what brought about this person's journey into Shamanism.

 

This person had to recognize that he/she was NOT a good person and needed to suffer... not only to gain compassion for others, which was lacking.... but to renounce Ego... greed, spite, envy,  pride, vanity.... and a whole host of unkind traits and behavior.  

 

Of course, there was a long time of bitterness in between the attack, spiritual healing and enlightenment.

 

This Shaman, although still and always will suffer with pain, disability and disfigurement as a result of the Attack, swears it was the BEST THING that ever happened in his/her life.  By letting go of all the rotten stuff... made room for a more meaningful life and joy... despite physical limitations and pain. 

 

One thing I'd like to add about this person's experience.... smaller attacks were occurring for years prior... which got more violent and intense over time.

 

Looking back, it was pride and stubbornness that prevented the Lesson from being learned sooner... hence the severe damage that was eventually done.

For this continued oversight, the Shaman takes complete responsibility for not 'getting it' sooner.  

 

Makes you wonder at times if those who were attacked and died did so because they failed what ever lesson their guide was trying to teach?

 

Makes me wonder how many times the student didn't pay attention to prior lessons.  So yes... agreed.

 

I think it's clearer how Attending Spirits or Totems can and will literally fuck you up to get your attention. 

 

Voted up OP and Aurelian for making me think a bit harder and reflect a bit. Thanks guys.


Edited by Nikki, 07 May 2014 - 05:04 PM.

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The difference between Medicine and Poison is the Dose. :oil-bottle:
I Love you as certain Dark Things are to be Loved,
In Secret, Between the Shadow and the Soul.
- Pablo Neruda


#17 Aurelian

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 10:21 PM

This is certainly an interesting topic of conversation, just...trust your instincts, and don't draw premature conclusions.  Glad I could give some food for thought.  xx  :biggrin2:

 

-Aur


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"The truth about the world, he said, is that anything is possible. Had you not seen it from birth and thereby bled it of its strangeness it would appear to you for what it is, a hat trick in a medicine show, a fevered dream, a trance bepopulate with chimeras having neither analogue nor precedent, an itinerant carnival, a migratory tentshow whose ultimate destination after many a pitch in many a mudded field is unspeakable and calamitous beyond reckoning." - Cormac McCarthy