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Sarafina

Herbs for depression and to aid in memory

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Big pharma has great financial incentive to push drugs they have spent a lot of money developing.  That isn't in question, it's the most profitable industry in America.  Most of the research is bought from universities, who are not responsible for the way it is used.  The problem is that doctors are not referencing those studies nor understanding the drugs prior to prescribing them.

 

As for this business about the perpetrators of those crimes...are you fecking kidding me?  This is a red herring.  They are representative of .000000000000000000000001% of everyone on psych meds in the nation.  Would you prefer that we don't attempt to medicate and improve the lives of those with mental illness?  

 

As for treating depression, first it needs to be properly diagnosed, then the patient should be trialed on a variety of drugs, not until one is found to be effective, but until the *most* effective one is found.  This is not being done.

 

I addressed SSRI/SNRI's in my previous post.  They are effective for some people.  Just not a great many.  They are being improperly prescribed.  There are drugs far more effective, some with side-effects or requiring monitoring with blood tests, so are far less often used.  This is slowly changing.  Go medicine.

 

As for google, well google doesn't necessarily provide.  That would require that I read a lot of pop science, which isn't a good use of my time.  I spent a lot of money for a big, fancy education in a subject which is closely allied to this one.

 

If my words are not clear on this, I am not sure how to get the point across.  You do have certain points which are valid, but....

 

Neuroscience as a general field has come a long way in this certain regard, and makes leaps and bounds every day.  The point is, there is hope for people with depression.  

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Last thing.  Richard Costaldo, I went to school with.  He was one of the victims of the Columbine shootings.  He's in a wheelchair for the rest of his life.  I live 10 miles from the shootings that happened in Aurora.  Think deep before you engage me on this.  I lived that.   It's not a joke to me.  That issue is local to me, I've been there.  Just sayin--cha-ching!

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Big-Pharma only develops drugs that are profitable and patentable. There's no profit in something natural that works, it can't be patented. Period. Big- Pharma, Big-Agra and Big-Tech fund only University studies that will lead to profit for them. Ask any grad student and they will tell you that funds are only available to "team players" who's research will directly benefit the funder, simple economics, nothing more, nothing less.

Doctors are taught a very restrictive form of medicine to which they must promise to uphold under Penalty of losing their licence to practice, not to mention loosing their lucrative income and ability to pay back the hundreds of thousands it cost to train in the first place! To imply that doctors are too stupid understand or reluctant to keep up with the latest findings after spending twelve plus years training is absurd. They are required to continue ongoing studies and to stay current and keep their licence to practice. However almost all of this information is provided by.....................,.wait for it.........................Big-Pharma. Another feckin surprise!

Your math is a bit off, and you may want to check that figure! those are only the big headline makers exploited to try and squash our 2nd amendment rights. Many thousands of crimes are committed every day under the influence of mind altering meds, Methylphenidate (Ritalin) is a potent central nervous system stimulant derived from amphetamine which cause paranoia, hallucinations, delusions among others, and is prescribed to many thousands of people. You may want to talk to a cop and get his take on a drugs relationship to crime. Hmmmmm..........................

There's one small snafu to this scenario, Big-Pharma has admitted many times and in writing that the have no fecking clue what causes depression, so so how the feck can anyone properly diagnose it. Followed by lets experiment on you to see which comes first; profits, misery, suffering, loss of physical health, and possibly death, directly or indirectly. Yum sign me up!!

Vitamin D3 and to a lesser extent D2 (yes you do need D2 in minuscule amounts,which is adequately provided for in meats, fruits and vegetables) and B vitamins have been proven to help many with depression, cheaply and with zero side effects (as in none what so ever). Go nature!!

Google should be considered a friend, and as such should be treated like the real thing; a great ally with the potential to do the proverbial!! at any given time. That said google has the best, algorithms, indexing and spiders bar none. If it exists on the web and is not restricted by government; google will find it. You have to understand that there is a need to use the right search term and that ads and misinformation (paid for by........you guessed it) gets top billing and will appear first to deter those pesky questioners.

Sound like you have an agenda or a vested interest in the Big-Boys!!!!!!

Your words are ringing loud and clear, your pro-pharma and I'm not. They have had their best minds working on it for decades with an eye on making a huge profit, while squashing real alternative research and development. Just look how they ridicule anything that is competition for their profit margin!! There are and have been real solutions in the alternative medicine arena, if only Big-Pharma would let go of their stranglehold.

All of this really distracts from the topic of this thread, which is "Herbs for depression and to aid in memory" which have already been mentioned by others in this thread. I feel that it is not as simple take this herb and you'll be fixed, but more of a multi-faceted approach. Herbs can help, vitamins too, but there are others, enzymes, amino's and probiotics should also be considered. Along with a change in diet/lifestyle.

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Last thing.  Richard Costaldo, I went to school with.  He was one of the victims of the Columbine shootings.  He's in a wheelchair for the rest of his life.  I live 10 miles from the shootings that happened in Aurora.  Think deep before you engage me on this.  I lived that.   It's not a joke to me.  That issue is local to me, I've been there.  Just sayin--cha-ching!

 

 

Get off you high horse, nobodies engaging you in anything - the shooters in those incidents were flying on pharmaceuticals, legally prescribed and dosed pharmaceuticals! is all.

 

Accept that I have a different opinion to you - nothing more.

 

And while we are in a pissing contest, I stood eight city blocks from WTC and watched 2,606 people perish - but what the feck does that have to do with herbs for depression.

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:popcorn:  Looking at the actual scientific research on depression (diagnosis, treatment, prognosis, etc.), you are both right on many points. 

 

I am enjoying the conversation from a professional, psychological standpoint, but . . . Witchcraft?

 

 

 

 

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If you compare to the way depression is treated these days  to say back in the 40s(and just by the way it is actually acknowledged, and not just blown off as being "all in your head) there's a big difference. They have made lots of progress.  Again, different people react differently to different drugs.  And not just prescribed medications, but also talk therapy, taking things like Foilc acid, discussing exercise and diet, getting enough sunlight, tons and tons of variables.  The hard thing is finding what works for you.  And drugs are not always part of the maintenance.

 

And for the record? When it comes to pure scientific research google sucks.  Sure the info is out there, but wading through all the baloney is more time than I have.  Yeah the Pharma. companies have money on the mind, but that doesn't mean the medications are not helping.   I don;t agree with the placebo affect argument you used. I wish it were true! Then I would not have had to try so many different medications, had to deal with the ones that were NOT a good fit, would not have to deal with plateauing, etc etc.   And what about the folks who had depression so badly they couldn't get out of bed until they went on medication that worked for them?  They got their lives back.  So yeah it does work for people.  Pointing the finger at  people who freaked out in a big way and killed as support to your view is really not realistic; what about the hundreds who are being helped?   Unfortunately the news rarely focuses on them and some of the small personal triumphs in their lives (that medication has helped bring about), small daily things that others just cruise through as a matter of course. :)

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Get off you high horse, nobodies engaging you in anything - the shooters in those incidents were flying on pharmaceuticals, legally prescribed and dosed pharmaceuticals! is all.

 

Accept that I have a different opinion to you - nothing more.

 

And while we are in a pissing contest, I stood eight city blocks from WTC and watched 2,606 people perish - but what the feck does that have to do with herbs for depression.

 

 

 

Ummmm---you brought it up, he responded. 

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Ummmm---you brought it up, he responded. 

 

 

Ummmm - What relevance does living ten miles from the Aurora incident have on the discussion?

 

                 How does attending the same school as one of the Columbine shooting victims have any relevance to the fact that the perpetrators were doped up on properly prescribed psychiatric pharmaceuticals?

 

 

Nothing.................I think

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You know, I'll get back to this later.  But for now, you can fuck RIGHT off.

 

RIGHT back at ya :wink:

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If you compare to the way depression is treated these days  to say back in the 40s(and just by the way it is actually acknowledged, and not just blown off as being "all in your head) there's a big difference. They have made lots of progress.  Again, different people react differently to different drugs.  And not just prescribed medications, but also talk therapy, taking things like Foilc acid, discussing exercise and diet, getting enough sunlight, tons and tons of variables.  The hard thing is finding what works for you.  And drugs are not always part of the maintenance.

 

And for the record? When it comes to pure scientific research google sucks.  Sure the info is out there, but wading through all the baloney is more time than I have.  Yeah the Pharma. companies have money on the mind, but that doesn't mean the medications are not helping.   I don;t agree with the placebo affect argument you used. I wish it were true! Then I would not have had to try so many different medications, had to deal with the ones that were NOT a good fit, would not have to deal with plateauing, etc etc.   And what about the folks who had depression so badly they couldn't get out of bed until they went on medication that worked for them?  They got their lives back.  So yeah it does work for people.  Pointing the finger at  people who freaked out in a big way and killed as support to your view is really not realistic; what about the hundreds who are being helped?   Unfortunately the news rarely focuses on them and some of the small personal triumphs in their lives (that medication has helped bring about), small daily things that others just cruise through as a matter of course. :smile:

 

For the record I didn't say what you are quoting above, you did.

 

As for Google - if you want to do serious research you need to use their specialized portals; Google Scholar Library; http://scholar.google.com and Google Research Areas & Publications; http://research.google.com/pubs/papers.html

                         To name just two, there are more if you really want to look!

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TIME OUT. This conversation has devolved from the OP. There will be NO further discussion of pharmaceuticals and their industry here. Go back to topic or post nothing further.

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Ummmm - What relevance does living ten miles from the Aurora incident have on the discussion?

 

                 How does attending the same school as one of the Columbine shooting victims have any relevance to the fact that the perpetrators were doped up on properly prescribed psychiatric pharmaceuticals?

 

 

Nothing.................I think

Doesn't change my point.  You brought it up, he responded.

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Sorry guys, sorry Mountain Witch.  I occasionally get hot when I feel misinformation is being spread.

 

This is sort of my 'thing,' I don't really feel my perspective is myopic.  It's dangerous to be a consumer of popular science, so I was trying to disseminate knowledge and give hope to the OP.  

 

In my experience and that of several other witches I've spoken to on here, the problem with some anti-D's is that they can numb your emotions, and if you use them to cast, that is definitely a problem.  It's also a huge problem to get medded up and not seek help with a therapist, psych, clergy, etc.  As a good friend put it, "I can't get MAD."  That is my experience, as well.

 

But, if you are so depressed, it's hard to get anything done, anyway.  If you don't feel like you're worth anything, how do you have the authority to cast?  I've been through that, so many times, and it's still an issue to be worked through.

 

Anecdotal evidence from my own life and craft, but as always, YMMV.

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Sorry guys, sorry Mountain Witch.  I occasionally get hot when I feel misinformation is being spread.

 

This is sort of my 'thing,' I don't really feel my perspective is myopic.  It's dangerous to be a consumer of popular science, so I was trying to disseminate knowledge and give hope to the OP.  

 

In my experience and that of several other witches I've spoken to on here, the problem with some anti-D's is that they can numb your emotions, and if you use them to cast, that is definitely a problem.  It's also a huge problem to get medded up and not seek help with a therapist, psych, clergy, etc.  As a good friend put it, "I can't get MAD."  That is my experience, as well.

 

But, if you are so depressed, it's hard to get anything done, anyway.  If you don't feel like you're worth anything, how do you have the authority to cast?  I've been through that, so many times, and it's still an issue to be worked through.

 

Anecdotal evidence from my own life and craft, but as always, YMMV.

 

I didn't realize how much the intensity of my emotions was dulled until I stopped taking the medication(with the Dr's knowledge and working with me), and (after the weaning away period)it began to completely leave my system (More parentheses just cause I like 'em). It was interesting to say the least!! Eeeks, in a word. ;)  Eeeks for months.

 

Okay so anyway more importantly, what the heck does YMMV stand for??

 

PS Hi :)

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Your Milage May Vary.

 

'Ello, Lady Lynn!

OH!

 

Okay doke. 

Thank yeewww.

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Just thought about something:  GABA(the main inhibitory neurotransmitter in the brain, the chemical that keeps you calm) is synthesized from Glutamate, which reaction is dependant on the presence of Lysine.

 

Many people have anxiety as a co-morbidity with depression, and some find benzos to be helpful, but it's a FAR better idea to address that issue with anything but benzos, as they're so addictive.

 

You could buy Lysine and L-Glutamine supplements, along with wild lettuce tincture and california poppy, to boost GABA production and to aid with anxiety, if that is an issue you have.

 

 

Reference:

 

Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A. 2004 Jun 1;101(22):8285-8.
 
Lysine fortification reduces anxiety and lessens stress in family members in economically weak communities in Northwest Syria.
 
Smriga M, Ghosh S, Mouneimne Y, Pellett PL, Scrimshaw NS.
 
Institute of Life Sciences, Ajinomoto Co., Inc., 210-8681 Kawasaki, Japan.
 
"Lysine is a limiting amino acid in diets based on wheat as the staple. In experimental animals, prolonged dietary lysine inadequacy increases stress-induced anxiety. If observed in humans, such a result would have a strong implication for the relationship between nutrition and communal quality of life and mental health. As part of a 3-month randomized double-blind study, we tested whether lysine fortification of wheat reduces anxiety and stress response in family members in poor Syrian communities consuming wheat as a staple food. In the lysine-fortified group, the plasma cortisol response to the blood drawing as a cause of stress was reduced in females, as was sympathetic arousal in males as measured by skin conductance. Lysine fortification also significantly reduced chronic anxiety as measured by the trait anxiety inventory in males. These results suggest that some stress responses in economically weak populations consuming cereal-based diets can be improved with lysine fortification."
 
PMID: 15159538 [PubMed - in process]

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I meant to reply to this awhile ago and completely forgot...

 

Going with the whole amino acid theme, there is also SAM-e. It's a mood stabilizer and according to WebMD is used for depression and anxiety. I don't personally use it, although I really should because I have horrible anxiety.

 

It is also really good for helping to protect and "rebuild" the liver. I give it to my dog with milk thistle during the weeks he gets his flea & tick meds & his heartworm meds. It's also good for arthritis and joint pain. So, those are good things to keep in mind also. (For yourself and any dogs you may have lol) :)

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I found this in my herb collection;

 

 

Passionflower (Passiflora incarnata) was used traditionally in the Americas and later in Europe as a calming herb for anxiety, insomnia, seizures, and hysteria. It is still used today to treat anxiety and insomnia.

Plant Description
Native to southeastern parts of the Americas, passionflower is now grown throughout Europe. It is a perennial climbing vine with herbaceous shoots and a sturdy woody stem that grows to a length of nearly 10 meters (about 32 feet). Each flower has 5 white petals and 5 sepals that vary in color from magenta to blue. According to folklore, passionflower got its name because its corona resembles the crown of thorns worn by Jesus during the crucifixion. The passionflower's ripe fruit is an egg-shaped berry that may be yellow or purple. Some kinds of passionfruit are edible.

Passion flower herb is a gentle sedative and tranquilizer. It relaxes twitching and muscle tension without impacting respiratory rate or psychological function the way many pharmaceutical sedatives do, thus making it a powerful herbal treatment. Its balancing healing powers come from the plant’s alkaloids and bioflavonoids, unique compounds that interact positively with the body’s own methods to replace mental and physical wellness and equilibrium. Due to this there are six benefits of passion flower that are listed below. Harvesting and making use of the whole aboveground portion of the plant – stalk, leaf, and bloom – provides relief for those in need.

1) Helps With Sleeping
Arguably the most common medicinal usage of passionflower tea or extracts would be to help alleviate insomnia, which is the persistent inability to fall asleep or remain asleep through the evening. More particularly, recent researchers have concluded that their findings imply low dose usage of passionflower tea yields short term subjective sleep benefits for adults with sleep issues.

2) Eases Pain
Due to the antispasmodic and sedative effects, physical pain is also relieved by passion flower in a myriad of ways. Try it for premenstrual cramps or to lessen headache pain. It could also alleviate muscle discomfort and toothaches. The popular book, “The Encyclopedia of Medicinal Plants” suggests passionflower notably for pain which causes difficulty falling asleep.

3) Helps With Stress and Anxiety
Passionflower is also generally used to fight nervousness, anxiety, and pressure. Furthermore, unlike the commonly prescribed drug oxazepam, passionflower doesn’t cause drowsiness or deterioration of work performance the next day. Investigators have concluded that passionflower is powerful for the direction of generalized anxiety disorder, but large scale trials are required before specific recommendations can be made.

4) Anti Depressant and Menopause Relief
Individuals in one study had passion flower supplements everyday for 6 months. Significant symptom development occurred by the 3rd week. Investigators concluded that passion flower might provide advantages for menopause in women who either cannot or decide not to utilize any sort of hormone replacement. The herb has also been shown to help boost the anti-depressant effects of St. John’s Wort.

5) Drug Withdrawal
Passionflower further helps fight withdrawal symptoms from opiate medications like morphine. Furthermore, when passionflower was joined with drugs that control psychological withdrawal symptoms – - including stress and irritability – - the effects were better in comparison to the drug alone. The investigators concluded that passion flower extract might be successful within the direction of opiate withdrawal, although larger studies must be conducted to affirm their results.

6) Helps to Lower Blood Pressure
In one study passion flower extract elevated degrees of an anti-oxidant enzyme and reduced degrees of oxidized lipids — lipids broken from accumulated toxins and waste material. Investigators in that study administered doses of 8 milligrams daily for 5 days. The results of this show that taking the herb may help to lower high blood pressure.


Passion Flower Side Effects and Cautions
When used in moderation passionflower is normally regarded as non-toxic. Many herbalists prescribe three to four cups per day with no issues reported. As excessive sleepiness is reported, if you’re already taking a prescription drug for stress or depression don’t take passionflower.

Bleeding
Passion flower extract can inhibit your body’s clotting elements. Though this is sometimes advantageous to somebody with blood prone to forming blood clots, it’s harmful to somebody with normal clotting and may bring about hemorrhaging.

Drowsiness
Drowsiness is actually a standard complication of passion flower extract, based on “Prescription for Natural Cures.” Lots of people experience excessive drowsiness and sluggishness for many hours after taking this herb, although some individuals use passion flower extract specifically to take care of their sleeplessness. This side-effect could be mitigated by using passion flower extract at a lowered dosage with a tiny bit of food before you go to sleep.

Lastly, it should be stated that passionflower’s close relative, the blue passionflower, shouldn’t be used, because it doesn’t have exactly the same functions as passfionflower itself.

Available forms include the following:
Infusions
Teas
Liquid extracts
Tinctures

How to Take It

Pediatric
No studies have examined the effects of passionflower in children, so do not give passionflower to a child without a doctor's supervision. Adjust the recommended adult dose to account for the child's weight.

Adult
The following are examples of forms and doses used for adults. Speak to your doctor for specific recommendations for your condition:
Tea: Steep 0.5 - 2 g (about 1 tsp.) of dried herb in 1 cup boiling water for 10 minutes; strain and cool. For anxiety, drink 3 - 4 cups per day. For insomnia, drink one cup an hour before going to bed.
Fluid extract: (1:1 in 25% alcohol): 10 - 20 drops, 3 times a day.
Tincture: (1:5 in 45% alcohol): 10 - 45 drops, 3 times a day.


Passionflower may interact with the following medications:

Sedatives (drugs that cause sleepiness) -- Because of its calming effect, passionflower may make the effects of sedative medications stronger. These medications include:
Anticonvulsants such as phenytoin (Dilantin)
Barbiturates
Benzodiazepines such as alprazolam (Xanax) and diazepam (Valium)
Drugs for insomnia, such as zolpidem (Ambien), zaleplon (Sonata), eszopiclone (Lunesta), ramelteon (Rozerem)
Tricyclic antidepressants, such as amitriptyline (Elavil), amoxapine, doxepin (Sinequan), and nortriptyline (Pamelor)

Antiplatelets and anticoagulants (blood thinners) -- Passionflower may increase the amount of time blood needs to clot, so it could make the effects of blood thinning medications stronger and increase your risk of bleeding. Blood thinning drugs include:
Clopidogrel (Plavix)
Warfarin (Coumadin)
Aspirin

Monoamine oxidase inhibitors (MAO inhibitors or MAOIs) -- MAO inhibitors are an older class of antidepressants that are not often prescribed now. Theoretically, passionflower might increase the effects of MAO inhibitors, as well as their side effects, which can be dangerous. These drugs include:
Isocarboxazid (Marplan)
Phenelzine (Nardil)
Tranylcypromine (Parnate)

 

:)

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I have a concoction from the same source as the Asthma remedy that I previously posted, and will post as soon as I can find it!

 

I'm in great need of some cataloging software.

 

:)

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